Map design is discouraging events

[Rauderi.8706]

We've seen it in Tangled Depths, we saw it in New Kaineng and Echovald, we're seeing it with SotO. Map layouts that are too convoluted to find events, and sometimes, other basic things like waypoints. Cramming them into weird underground tunnels and cave recesses. Wizard's Tower is an absolute chore to get around, for no reason. 

Would that the in-game map was sufficient in determining the correct routes, but alas, that is also tremendously insufficient. Tunnels and throughways are unmarked, and remember that Wallows were updated to include the direction, but jade surfboards still aren't marked? Same goes for SotO maps. Insufficient to support the game's lauded exploration. 

[DarcShriek.5829]

I agree about wizards tower.  That place is a mess with too much going on.  I'll stick with Arborstone.

[Izzy.2951]

11 hours ago, Rauderi.8706 said:

We've seen it in Tangled Depths, we saw it in New Kaineng and Echovald, we're seeing it with SotO. Map layouts that are too convoluted to find events, and sometimes, other basic things like waypoints. Cramming them into weird underground tunnels and cave recesses. Wizard's Tower is an absolute chore to get around, for no reason. 

Would that the in-game map was sufficient in determining the correct routes, but alas, that is also tremendously insufficient. Tunnels and throughways are unmarked, and remember that Wallows were updated to include the direction, but jade surfboards still aren't marked? Same goes for SotO maps. Insufficient to support the game's lauded exploration. 

Completly agreed.

I will also add more: They have like 5 assets copied all around making all the places look the same in Wizard Tower and even Amnytas. This is also making the game very laggy in FPS with so many innecesaries walls, verticality and assets copied 1.000 times all around.

For example Wizard Tower is like 1 white asset for the floor and walls, 1 tree copied 1.000 times and 1 type of stairs. Thats copied lots of times making the map laggy in FPS, hard to know where you are and move around.

Why arent they making more simple maps with not so much verticality, less assets and more different ones? This way maps will be better in FPS performance, you will know where you are and move around better and it will be way more fun overall. This already happened in New Kaineng i cant belive how they designed maps same way as Kaineng to have the same problems.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Ashantara.8731]

16 hours ago, Rauderi.8706 said:

We've seen it in Tangled Depths, we saw it in New Kaineng and Echovald, we're seeing it with SotO. Map layouts that are too convoluted to find events, and sometimes, other basic things like waypoints. Cramming them into weird underground tunnels and cave recesses.

You're not a real role-player if you don't find exploration of "dungeon"-like designs exciting.

Where is the excitement in traveling boring flat maps without hidden/tricky places to explore?
 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Futa.4375]

Sadly this is a direct consequence of mounts, specifically flying mounts. It felt good until IBS and then came EoD where we had to pay for having mounts for some reason.
I like the intricacy of Tangled Depths because the map is diverse enough that I can set landmarks in my mind to know where I am but I can't say I enjoy the maps released with EoD. SotO maps are not as annoying because they are smaller but the verticality in excess gets annoying.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Futa.4375

[Hindenburg.3415]

Tangled Depths is the best map this game has to offer.

Don't lump it together with New Kaineng

[VexoKyle.4817]

I would honestly argue that echovauld is a fairly flat map sure it has trees going into the air, and a few ledges but I can reach mostly anywhere important on that map with the rollerbeatle. Then either run up or bot. But in kieng they give you means to traverse it via the bot. And telepads what most people don’t use since they are lazy and use their slow skysscale to get anywhere. Though talking about the new maps they were made around the dragon mount. So ofc they will have verticality but when you have the masteries getting around the new maps is honestly fine more so with Amynitas since all events happen around the bastions and each one has a wp. 

[Rauderi.8706]

Speaking of map-design lessons I thought we learned before:

STOP PUTTING POIs BEHIND META EVENTS. 

Path of Fire got this right. Let exploration happen and stop forcing players into things they have to wait for. It interrupts the flow. 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

Jade "surfboards" do show you where they're going. You'll see the line when you stand next to them, and the destination is pinged on the mini map. And if Tangled Depths is discouraging doing events, who are these people finishing the camp event chains then? I'd wager the majority of open world players knows where to go in Tangled Depths, especially considering it's a map with one of the more populated meta events. The problem with New Kaineng that I usually hear is that the map is boring, not that it's convoluted. The SotO maps are hardly a problem either. Everywhere is easy to get, even without the new mount masteries for updrafts and ley lines.

For every complaint I've heard about a map I've also heard praise going to the design. If you have a reason to be there you'll learn the layout soon enough. And if you don't have a reason to be there, there's no problem, right? Why does everything need to be spoonfed and created with the lowest possible difficulty?

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Jade "surfboards" do show you where they're going. You'll see the line when you stand next to them, and the destination is pinged on the mini map. And if Tangled Depths is discouraging doing events, who are these people finishing the camp event chains then? I'd wager the majority of open world players knows where to go in Tangled Depths, especially considering it's a map with one of the more populated meta events. The problem with New Kaineng that I usually hear is that the map is boring, not that it's convoluted. The SotO maps are hardly a problem either. Everywhere is easy to get, even without the new mount masteries for updrafts and ley lines.

For every complaint I've heard about a map I've also heard praise going to the design. If you have a reason to be there you'll learn the layout soon enough. And if you don't have a reason to be there, there's no problem, right? Why does everything need to be spoonfed and created with the lowest possible difficulty?

The green line is very hit or miss in my experience. Sometimes it shows, sometimes not. Sometimes I can retrigger it by moving far enough away and reapproaching, but usually not.

Thankfully, the community has fixed poor implementation, and there’s a Blish HUD module.

[Rauderi.8706]

Still happening. 

If you see a rift, it's already too late.

 

Meanwhile, does Amnytas even have events anymore? Trying to get one of the specific ones and nothing exists. Likely because the maps are so large and the event radii so small that you can't receive notices. Not that anyone's doing map events, too busy chasing demon portals. Just tryin' to get that stupid elemental down, /sigh 

[BlueJin.4127]

I would say that lack of rewards is discouraging me from doing events. Unless events give out essences or something, there’s no reason to repeat them now that I got the mastery points. I do agree that the maps are too convoluted. There’s really no reason that the Wizard’s Tower needs to be such a maze. And there are too many platforms/floors just out of skyscale’s reach, that I have to constantly stick to something before slowly reaching the platform/floor. It feels too clunky.

Edited September 23, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[Lucy.3728]

I would also like to see a wider range of events "nearby".

I like the SotO maps so far. Although I'm not a fan of vertical travel, it's been fun to explore Skywatch. I think the spots are fairly easy to access, unlike Tangled Depth.

For rift hunting, this can be annoying. Because traveling up is slow. When a rift appears on a certain small island, it takes forever because only 3 mobs spawn at a time.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Lucy.3728 said:

I would also like to see a wider range of events "nearby".

I like the SotO maps so far. Although I'm not a fan of vertical travel, it's been fun to explore Skywatch. I think the spots are fairly easy to access, unlike Tangled Depth.

For rift hunting, this can be annoying. Because traveling up is slow. When a rift appears on a certain small island, it takes forever because only 3 mobs spawn at a time.

Do you have leyline traveling for your mount opened?  It can make it quicker to get around the map, depending on where you are and where you need to go.

[illuminati.8453]

I'm not sure I agree, the new maps are pretty quick and easy to navigate once you have map complete and masteries done.   That being said, I agree that making things as simple as possible for players is a much better experience.  TD was awesome to explore, but trains are the only way to get things done nowadays for alts.  

[Sweetbread.3678]

On 9/16/2023 at 2:16 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

You're not a real role-player if you don't find exploration of "dungeon"-like designs exciting.

Where is the excitement in traveling boring flat maps without hidden/tricky places to explore?

It is kind of depressing that like 70% of the threads on this forum can be summed up as "ANET PLEASE MAKE THE GAME AS BASIC AS POSSIBLE."

[Lucy.3728]

4 hours ago, illuminati.8453 said:

I agree that making things as simple as possible for players is a much better experience.

You mean like an item that you double click and everything is explored, all achievements are done, thanks for playing our game?

Or a teleporter device that opens the map and you double click a spot or an event and there you are?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Lucy.3728

[Lucy.3728]

9 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Do you have leyline traveling for your mount opened?  It can make it quicker to get around the map, depending on where you are and where you need to go.

Yeah I have that, everything maxed.

I'm no fan of mount in leyline. I'd rather disable that feature. I can use a leyline by myself, without mount, just fine. If there was one that gets me up then I'd use it, but that wasn't the case. If I'd know before where that rift was, I would choose the griffon from the tower spot (you can reach every spot from there) but that was a t2 or t3 rift (while doing rift weekly with the guild) that needed to be found and opened first.

[Quench.7091]

The new map design does discourage doing events, but there are additional problems.

• The current maps discourage landing off of your flying mounts. Once you land, you lose elevation and momentum.
• Rifts are time sensitive events. If you don't beeline for them, you won't make it in time. You can't stop to do events, because rifts are non-stop.
• Events are less rewarding than rifts/bounties/etc. Why would you stop for uniquely programmed events instead of doing the rewarding copy-pasta'd events?

[FalanuLachance.4576]

I really can't help myself and need to quote Zojja (again): "A lot has changed."

Get used to it, it's not about you anymore.

[Lucy.3728]

3 hours ago, Quench.7091 said:

Why would you stop for uniquely programmed events instead of doing the rewarding copy-pasta'd events?

Guess achievements and their rewards. They are repeatable.