Set Off Chain Reactions with the Engineer Short Bow Proficiency

[Ale.3280]

Livestream feedback:

Shortbow on engi vote: 1/10

• anonymous autoatack...(try the thief one?);
• no skills for mobility;
• radius of "wells" 180 are too small;
• skill 5 with superspeed is useless.. (try with quickness?)
• no CC for breakbar;
• etc..

Let's see if after the BETA the feedback will improve... but starting from 1/10 it's hard to gain at least the 6/10.. ;(

[miles.5961]

11 hours ago, Groggyfrog.9754 said:

I was optimistic but this is trash and the devs knew it, they spent like triple the time on every other weapon and awkwardly laughed/rushed through the presentation of engi. You can always tell when ppl aren't proud to show off something and this was one of those times, It's sad really.

This especially saddened me. The devs didn't even bother trying to the point that engi SB became a footnote compared to other weapon previews, CMC saying that it's "cringe" that he's still stuck at demonstrating engi SB because they all know it's incomplete and has jack to show for. Like, I'm sorry for picking an underdeveloped class as my main then? Maybe it's less cringey if you deleted this subforum and the class altogether, CMC? And what the hell was up with the clash of interest between CMC and Roy during the preview?

Regarding the weapon itself, I try to be optimistic and I don't mind the concept of chaining circles but as others have said it earlier, the weapon skills are incredibly underwhelming. Other classes had got upgrades with their new SOTO weapons but engi had got an absolute downgrade. If this is what I have to expect from future paid content, then it's pretty grim. I'll hold my tongue for now until the eventual weapon beta but I wouldn't hold my breath for the full release next year.

[Drascious.5714]

Very confused with the way they previewed it. Didn’t seem like the same approach they took to every other weapon.

Such a let down, all the other weapons looked so good in comparison. 

[Chingiz.6481]

I wasn't expecting top1 mega weapon, but this a garbage, niche support weapon for a class that got support weapon in prev. expansion.

[Nanoir.2315]

Love how the devs looked so awkward in stream and just rushed bow.

They know this weapon sucks and yet they decided to showcase it still.

The barrier compared to other classes barriers is abysmal. One auto is going to get rid of that barrier.

The 180 radius is laughable too. The whole thing can be dodged with a sidestep, be it ally or enemy.

Auto tooltip was never shown because of how awkward and rushed the spotlight was.

Compared to all the other classes with cool mechanics engi feels so rushed and pathetic. 

Also remember to give feedback because we can clearly see how effective it is 🤡

[Nanoir.2315]

10 minutes ago, Chingiz.6481 said:

I wasn't expecting top1 mega weapon, but this a garbage, niche support weapon for a class that got support weapon in prev. expansion.

This would've been better as a bomb kit rework.

Man it sucks. Been playing for years and only recently gained love for engi with holo and scrapper but it feels like constant nerfs and devs not caring at all for this class.

[mov.1246]

Engi bow is literally the worst weapon from the preview, and everybody knows it. I am so dissapointed, the whole weapon needs to be reworked. I Hope anet gather all the mostly negative feedback and doesnt hesitate to change it. This is really a terrible skillset, here are my doubts:

- AOEs look clunky to use (low radius, ground targeted, fuse time, and pressing buttons twice)

- Numbers are too low in general (radius, damage, barrier, heal)

- Skills are underpowered and underloaded (provided effects are too weak to make it worth using)

- Cant see any viabilty in any gamemod or Situation (supports already use mace and shield which provide a by far better skillset)

- Skillset feels more like a kit than a weapon (skill 2,3,4,5 all work literally the same way)

- Chain reaction mechanic will lead to a spammy playstyle to get the most out of this weapon (place all canisters and detonate all at once, detonating single canisters is not worth it)

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

I like the "concept" of this weapon, the canned magic and such, but as many have pointed out it looked very underwhelming. 

Also, please, for the love of god, remember that engie has no weapon swap. Either add it or add some condis to this weapon so we can at least do some condi damage (that typically pairs up better with support builds than power due to the stat requirements). It's even thematically appropriate considering the magic they're using: Torment on necro shade magic, burning on guardian flames, blind on thief shadow magic and confusion on mesmer magic, while adding a bit of bleeding to the auto to keep up some minor damage going. 

It's weird how ele weapons take into account that they have to fill in multiple roles due to the attunements being naturally versatile, but engie weapons try to specialize so much, especially considering kits are not mandatory like attunements are, and I'll never get tired of saying this. 

[Jski.6180]

Delayed trigger that you cant control is not that good of an effect it would be far better to add in an the longer it has to set up the stronger the effect but you still are able to trigger it at will. With 100% effect if you chain the triggers.

[origin.1496]

Agreed with the delayed trigger. I did find that chain reactions automatically trigger on arrows you shoot if you have one of the fields already detonated. I did like that, if it's intentional. It also goes off of the initial field too. The raw numbers for support are there, but the cooldowns, lack of survivability and group support boons will kill this.

Tried this in a WvW zerg and the amount of barrier this can pump out in one burst is disgustingly high, but relies on way too many variables and is so hard to get that down with the small radius and cooldowns chocking it up. It needs a LOT of work. And the fun factor is just non-existent

Group support boons are needed (Stab, Resistance, Prot)
Radius increase
Playstyle completely reworked. This isn't fun
 

Edited November 28, 2023 by origin.1496

[Chingiz.6481]

I've tested the bow and it's even worse than I thought.
All skills are basically traps with MANUAL activation and 180 radius. They do nothing at all if you just shot them at enemy. They disappear without any effect if you don't activate them.
This 'traps' have delay before they appear on the ground.
This 'traps' have activation delay.

[Calen.8945]

Bow looks bad to play. Bow FEELS bad to play. Bow is just bad. Anet need to stop balancing and designing the game around WvW.

[Bomboed.5697]

We should demand a complete rework of this weapon. This trash is atrociously bad and the person who designed it should feel bad.

[Zzik.5873]

Why is would I drop mace + shield for that? I was excpecting kitten... but even there they manage to disapoint, like wtf. Just admit you dont want an engi class in your game, refund me and delete it.

I lost my golem for that? You expect me to buy another expansion after that? Really, that the best you can do? Wtf anet...

Shortbow 0/10

[SoulGuardian.6203]

23 hours ago, Drakensoul.1608 said:

After the lifestream looking at the shortbow its just looks bad 😔

* Que human male laugh.

(Including knee tap)

😂

Edited November 28, 2023 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Artemis.8034]

Engi sb 0/10

ranger maces 1/10

hb pistols 8/10

mesmer rifle the weapon rangers should have got 9/10

necro swords 5/10 room for improvement

Didnt test the rest

Edited November 29, 2023 by Artemis.8034

[Worldsoul.6219]

Alright. So I've put a few hours into shortbow. These are my thoughts.

TL;DR: This is NOT a boon support weapon.

PROS

• The essence canisters (referred to as canisters from this point forward) act like Ranger Longbow 5, in that they can shoot from behind cover, over walls, etc.
• The auto attack is fast, and the fact it hits 4 targets means that it is pretty perfect for Lab farm or anything that requires you to tag large groups of mobs. Definitely my lazy PVE weapon along with flamethrower. Not that we needed *more* tagging power, but I guess that's fun.
• The canisters pulse damage, which again, goes really well for tagging. 
• If you land a canister in the middle of an already active canister field, it does auto activate. Which is neat.

CONS

• The damage on the canisters is entirely reliant on line of sight. Not the boons/barrier/condis. only the damage. This makes zero sense. If every other aspect of the weapon works outside of line of sight INCLUDING FIRING THE WEAPON, why is it that the damage is obstructed? I have video of this I'll be posting and I'll link to later.
• The AOE does not actually chain. If I have the barrier canister (SB2) at my feet, the heal canister (SB3) 180 units away, then the might canister (SB4) another 180 away from that, I do not get the Chain Reaction benefit from the might canister, even though it chain reacts down to me. Meaning that I, and by extension my allies, are REQUIRED to stand on the canister fields in order to benefit. In group content, with how mobile the game has gotten over the years, there is no way to reliably set that up with such small fields.
• There is no protection in the weapon at all. Support engineer relies heavily on protection in order to function. Anticorrosion Plating is a huge part of a lot of support engineer in WVW and as of now the only weapon that gives Protection is shield + Ally Ward. No engineer is going to give up a more reliable source of protection in shield for shortbow. 
• While the barrier you gain from barrier canister (SB2) is stronger than what you get off of Mace 2, it is less reliable as you have to be IN the field for it to take effect. Compared to the 360 radius of mace 2, I doubt many will take shortbow over mace. Especially considering the above comment about shield.
• There is no mobility in shortbow. Yes, there is three seconds of superspeed in the slow canister (SB5) on a 25 second cooldown, but that is far from enough. Not to beat a dead horse, but no support engineer (Anet's claimed marketed demographic with this weapon) is going to pick shortbow over the other options. 
• It feels in practice that all of the numbers are just... small. SB5 is 25 seconds for 3 seconds of superspeed and pulsing slow. This feels useless, except as a primer for the other canisters. If so, why 25 seconds? Having a bigger, pulsing barrier on 25 seconds, or protection would make more sense. Again, if the goal is to have this weapon be used for support.

In conclusion:

This weapon does not feel like a support weapon. This is a low power farming weapon. 

There is not enough boon generation for this to count as a support weapon. The lack of protection/vigor generation and generally low boon uptime even with full support gear is abysmal, and with no mobility it makes this weapon very ineffective against any enemy that has any amount of mobility.

What it does well is tag enemies. It is very good at sneaking damage into zergs through all the barriers and reflects. It's great at pve tagging. But that's about it.

There is however one really easy fix that makes shortbow useful.

Give. Engineer. Weapon. Swap.

That's it. That's all you have to do. 

Anyways, more later. But this is the major points. 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Well, I think a handful of the weapons either feel pretty great or have a strong foundation that can be polished up enough before the weapons are officially released. Sadly, Engi shortbow is definitely the loser of the bunch and needs a LOT of work. I can see the vision of what the weapon is supposed to be, but its execution is lacking.

[Jerus.4350]

So, Engi Shortbow  (PVE Perspective).  Overall I feel like it's just not hitting the mark.  It needs a little something more and some flexibility/practicality in use. 

Mechanics for Shortbow:  You drop Canisters that upon detonation creates an effect around them and leaves a detonation field.  The detonation field (and Combo Fields) are a 180 radius.  The effect is a 240 radius (slightly larger than the field you see).  If you detonate a canister then any other canister who's 180 radius touches the detonation field will detonate itself.  From that chain reaction you will gain additional effects based upon the detonation field that caused the chain reaction.  If you toss another canister into a currently running detonation field the canister will automatically detonate gaining the chain reaction benefits of the detonation field that caused the chain reaction. 

This mechanic has the potential to be neat, but right now there is no flexibility.  If the effect radius was say 600' then we could have some room to play.  We could load the Might (Skill4) canister to the right, drop the blast/barrier (skill2) canister on top of it, then lob the heal (skill3) canister to the left and then detonate Skill4 for might stacking while leaving the heal in reserve for when it's needed.   Once we get that spike of damage (think VG Greens) we can detonate the skill3 for heals and if enough time has passed add a skill2 to it for even more healing and additional barrier on top.  But, right now with only 240' radius on the effects, there's none of that play.  Instead we just drop canisters onto the stack of players and if you've been using your skills they all start auto detonating and you can't really choose what bonus effects you get.    So, increased effect radius would actually give the ability to intelligently plan out and lay out your canisters so they have the impact you want.

Then, SB overall is giving us some solid barrier, decent heals, and some very quick might stacking.   This has to be weighed against what Mace/Shield offers with Regen/Vigor, solid CC, Protection, and a block and reflect.  In the end we're trading better boon coverage and CC for some barrier and faster might stacking.  Note, that's not might stacks, but just faster initial stacking because both Mech and Scrapper can pretty easily cap might without SB.  I think SB needs a little something to find a niche in the Engineer toolkit.  Fury would help bolster hScrapper which is currently the better fit for SB already thanks to the new Protection trait.  Protection would actually make SB viable for Mech which if it loses Shield has to invest in traited Thumper Turret and that's not great.  I think SB Skill5 is a good pick to get a little extra something in PVE, Slow just isn't all that great in PVE thanks to Defiance on any enemy that's an actual threat.  Some regen/Vigor wouldn't hurt either, it doesn't need to be a ton, but just a little bit to help mitigate the loss.  SB just needs a little something to become complete in that regard. 

 

I think SB could be interesting, but the details just don't work right now.

[Custodio.6134]

So, after playing it in WvW for a few hours: the numbers don´t seem to be that bad. however, there´s a load of issues that prevent it from popping off: 
 

• The canister-mechanic massively cripples its potential in movement-scenarios (aka, 99% of coordinated squad-play). 
• going alongside that, the activation-times and cast-times just take WAY too long in order to be used effectively
• while activating 3 or more canisters at once, you barely want to do more than 2. that´s not a bad thing per se, as skill 2 has a rather short CD, but it also limits its potential in some way

Suggestions: 

• Dropped canisters should activate immediately upon placements, and staying active for a short period of time. Just making them combo-fields would defeat the purpose ofc, but they should behave somewhat similar to that (dropping a canister into an already active canister immediately causes a chain-reaction)
• animation-speed and cast-times should (despite them already being relatively short) even shorter (in order to be reliable, that´s probably very close to instant-activation, but since that´s unrealistic i´d start at 0,25s cast-time)
• Increase the effect-radius. by a LOT. Yes, smaller areas reward pro-active gameplay (which this weapon requires a LOT of), but it´s just too unreliable in these extremely small areas)

I´m actually almost completely fine with the numbers and scaling. theyre not totally overtuned, but still impactful enough. But in a competetive scenario, they are FAR too slow to be effective, especially when considering chain-reactions (the main gimmick of the weapon). 

 

so in my opinion, it is not as abysmal as people make it seem to be, but it´s too impractical in its current state (mostly due to the built-in delays on the item effects due to manual activation). The main issue is reliability, and this aspect massively holds back the Shortbow

Edited November 30, 2023 by Custodio.6134

[Luthan.5236]

Tbh: I did not really play the beta. (Though I usually never really played the beta before. 😄 For EoD I also just quickly checked a few mins to see the mech.) With the placeholder icons + me having to think about a build/gear ... I have just too much other content still to play and just wait until it is finished and then try to play a bit around at full release of the shortbow.

Visually it looks cool. When the first news post at the website was made ... I thought it would not be interesting - since focus seems to be on support. But I guess for PvP/WvW and maybe the group content (raids, etc.) it could be interesting. I play mainly open world stuff though. (+ some low level fractals every now and then where I just use my open world allrounder-build not maxing in anything).

For PvP I might try to look at it. Would be interesting if ... with the next expansion in a year or so ... we'd get a new core trait line for each profession. (With a trait focusing on the new weapons. The usual CD reduction trait and maybe other synergies - but with the trait line also viable for use in other builds that do not use the new weapon.) In the end all the stuff can only been fully assessed with a whole build in mind. (And I don't even have  a real clue as to which runes to use. Just randomly used a core one from the free chests we got and stayed with it. I am a bit lazy with changing my build. Next big build change time will be the full release of the new weapon when I'll take a closer look on everything again.)

[Tiviana.2650]

Bows on engi make about as much sense as rifles on rangers good grief. Im an engineer for crying out loud, i use firearms and big hammers and tech, my trait lines are explosives and firearms , i dont see bow and arrow in there

Edited December 2, 2023 by Tiviana.2650

[bambi.6214]

I created a beta engi, tried each skill once and knew this is the usual thing that ANet does when it comes to this profession. Rushed, poorly designed, "fúćk-the-deadline-is-tomorrow-and-we-have-nothing" trash they always do for engi. This is clearly something that would have been released as a kit if an xpac gave us additional utility skills.

Skills are uninteresting and not impactful at all, cover barely enough area for PvE and won't ever work in PvP and WvW - with constantly moving targets. No movement, no CC. The exploding mechanic is super underwhelming and not worth exploring or paying attention to, you can just spam skills and the effect will be whatever. 

Stack current skills into one and make it possible to trigger with blast finisher maybe. Give the weapon some movement and CC.

 

Also, we really don't need another support - condi weapon. This niche is filled with mace-pistol. We need a power off-hand. God I'm so disappointed again.

Edited December 6, 2023 by bambi.6214

[ccccc.4963]

It sucks. @Rubi Bayer.8493 pass it on to whoever cashed a paycheque off it

[shion.2084]

Seriously... they've had months.   Can we get a review on what the redesign for the engi weapon is?  Any updates?   Any apologies for the clown shoe fiesta that was what they tried to pawn off?