Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Ranger

[CETheLucid.3964]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

No, literally try it on the test golems in sPvP--you can't maintain Force of Nature with the offhand.  I think this is a problem that shouldn't be ignored because the mainhand you can maintain simply because it has an extra skill to spam lol

I'm aware. Main-hand is the one you need to use if you intend to use one mace for maintaining Force of Nature in PvP. It would probably be better to commit and go mace/mace at that point, but it's an option. Mace/dagger for the evade I guess? I dunno. Like you said in PvE it's just barely doable with off-hand. I agree that it's something that needs to be looked at. Mace as off-hand would be the better pick in PvP if you could maintain Force of Nature with it paired with sword or dagger.

Mace/mace is alright though for a more bunker style sort of play. Which is probably what ranger is getting pushed towards, again. But that's just me with a few hours in. Thinking of druid shenanigans.

[DarkFlopy.8197]

Started running some tests, it's supposed to be a support weapon right? 🤔

https://youtube.com/shorts/s0N9WoSvib0?si=PrfQL_QML4hAK75j

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Started running some tests, it's supposed to be a support weapon right? 🤔

https://youtube.com/shorts/s0N9WoSvib0?si=PrfQL_QML4hAK75j

No...it's supposed to allow hybrid gameplay, you can re-listen to the stream. 

[DarkFlopy.8197]

21 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

No...it's supposed to allow hybrid gameplay, you can re-listen to the stream. 

I know I know, was joking around because they are pushing a bruiser type, it's funny because I can even climb to 23k in WvW with only #5.

But imo the healing on #2 is very low for a none full commited support, it's still beta things can change but for now I am enjoying it and can totally see myself using it in WvW in various roles.

But I don't feel okay with Force of Nature and Nature's Strength, it feels clunky and not easily obtainable, you need to actually stay on the weapons longer to try gain it and if you miss attacks you are in a situation if you weapon swap or stay longer until CDs are up to try gain it, we already have a 15cd (correct me if I'm wrong) on gaining stacks after usage so even after you used it all and weapon swapped you will return to it with still few seconds CD on the stack gains which might force you to avoid using skills to not waste CDs, AA is very slow so hard to relay on it.

IMO they should just let AA give you stacks regardless which AA in the chain it is since the weapon is quite slow anyway.

Edited November 29, 2023 by DarkFlopy.8197
Added thoughts on Nature's Strength and Force of Nature

[Arheundel.6451]

34 minutes ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

I know I know, was joking around because they are pushing a bruiser type, it's funny because I can even climb to 23k in WvW with only #5.

But imo the healing on #2 is very low for a none full commited support, it's still beta things can change but for now I am enjoying it and can totally see myself using it in WvW in various roles.

But I don't feel okay with Force of Nature and Nature's Strength, it feels clunky and not easily obtainable, you need to actually stay on the weapons longer to try gain it and if you miss attacks you are in a situation if you weapon swap or stay longer until CDs are up to try gain it, we already have a 15cd (correct me if I'm wrong) on gaining stacks after usage so even after you used it all and weapon swapped you will return to it with still few seconds CD on the stack gains which might force you to avoid using skills to not waste CDs, AA is very slow so hard to relay on it.

IMO they should just let AA give you stacks regardless which AA in the chain it is since the weapon is quite slow anyway.

The positive thing is that it's much better than hammer and general opinion at the moment is very positive. People are happy about the dmg numbers, so I hope they won't go down too much in the future and yeah...the healing needs to be higher and O can see that coming at the expense of dmg on 5 and 3, but can't have cake and eat it too

[DarkFlopy.8197]

16 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The positive thing is that it's much better than hammer and general opinion at the moment is very positive. People are happy about the dmg numbers, so I hope they won't go down too much in the future and yeah...the healing needs to be higher and O can see that coming at the expense of dmg on 5 and 3, but can't have cake and eat it too

I agree, well it depends on the game mode you are playing.

In WvW/sPvP CC skills don't do damage so the only REAL damage maker here is #5, since #4 is not meant to really burst an enemy it's supposed to be used defensively (Hench the condi clear prot barrier and stab) while #2 can do good damage but the delay on the eruption is slow and can be easily missed especially on a moving target.

Edited November 29, 2023 by DarkFlopy.8197

[Lazze.9870]

The Force of Nature thing is a needless gimmick in my opinion. The weapons are otherwise fine, but I'd rather have them balanced without that mechanic in mind.

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

I liked this one quite a bit, feels good to play, probably because the animations and effects seem finalized for the most part. 

My only real issue is that I don't like this weird Nature Strength mechanic, it feels weirdly tacked on and hard to track (we're running into the same issue as Harbinger Blight, remember when in the base game they were trying very hard to make it so we didn't have to "play the UI"?). I get that it adds burst potential, and I still need to test it with soulbeast, but I'd honestly just prefer if they removed this and tuned the skills' cooldowns and effects accordingly. My suggestion would be swapping Thisleguard into slot 5 (for an increased cooldown) and act as a counter move and blocking attacks recharges your other mace skills (maybe not 100% since it'd be easier to access the recharge this way).

There is also the issue of this being split into two weapons, which makes the kit feel muddy if you only use offhand mace for example. It would work better on a 2 handed weapon so you can guarantee all the dedicated skills are available. 

[DarkFlopy.8197]

11 minutes ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

only real issue is that I don't like this weird Nature Strength mechanic, it feels weirdly tacked on and hard to track

There is also the issue of this being split into two weapons, which makes the kit feel muddy if you only use offhand mace for example.

Agree.

Please if any Dev is actually watching this thread, please rethink this mechanic or at least the interactions with it, outside of PvE if you use only offhand you most likely will never obtain Force of Nature and if you are using only main hand you are punishing yourself by staying way too long in the weapon set.

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

The Force of Nature thing is a needless gimmick in my opinion. The weapons are otherwise fine, but I'd rather have them balanced without that mechanic in mind.

 

2 hours ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Agree.

Please if any Dev is actually watching this thread, please rethink this mechanic or at least the interactions with it, outside of PvE if you use only offhand you most likely will never obtain Force of Nature and if you are using only main hand you are punishing yourself by staying way too long in the weapon set.

Yep.  It's a gimmick-y type of thing which should be improved or removed.  As I said in my earlier post, it's difficult to obtain and maintain for so little benefit.

[Kydar Schattendolch.6879]

In general I like the new maces for ranger. But I'm missing a little bit more support in these. Especially in the auto attack chain.
I would like so see some barrier application added for 1.1 and 1.2 and and some minor aoe healing to allies for 1.3.

2 and 3 seems fine IMO.

I would like so see a CD reduction of Skill 4 to 10s, to better maintain the Force of Nature buff, when only using mace as offhand only. Or at least Increase the buff-duration from 15 to 20s at least.

[Echostorm.9143]

These were some of the better weapons I tested.  The animations felt a skosh long giving a slightly weighted down feeling and the radius of the effects is much too small and could be greatly increased along with some of the buffs and healing to compete better with the weapons it is hoping to replace.  

The Nature buff felt like a bridge too far, most of the new weapons seem to suffer from the desire to over complicate their usage.  (eg. engi bow and necro sword)  The values could simply be increased by 25% and we can get on with it.

[Ezraholic.7349]

Is Let Loose from Untamed not working at all on mace for some reason? Wanted to check this weapon set for my heal quick untamed (currently staff/staff) but it simply doesn't provide the quickness boon at all (none combination of weapons seem to work, only the other weapon ambush gives quickness). It does reset mace ambush but the reseted one doesn't seem to get life-siphon from Natural Fortitude either.

More about mace... You can't apply 6th stack (hence trigger Force of Nature) with aa chain. It does refresh the stack, but doesn't trigger the buff. Seems like a nice setup for mace 3 stun + axe 5 dmg for some competitive perhaps?

Lacks some tooltip about not being able to gain stacks of Nature's Strength after end of Force of Nature.

But about Force of Nature overall... It is... there? Excluding the case above with burst setup, it feels irrelevant for PvE. You don't really wait with weapon skills CD in most cases: for healer you'd probably like to use mace 2/3 to upkeep boons and for DPS you just want to dps (though it seems like a rather low damage weapon, so might not be used in dps builds at all, looking forwards for it to be more of a healer weapon instead). Force of Nature reminds me of Relic of Nourys style of a thing, but easier to gain (if you run m/m) with added cooldown. But then I am personally rather disappointed with Relic of Nourys so maybe that's not good x)

 

It's also funny watching how you grow smaller from Embiggening Tonic due to Force of Nature.

[Kris Knives.8513]

Mace feels like a workhorse weapon set bring a little bit of everything to the table and plays extremely well.

Negative:
1.)  The one negative I can say about the mace is the "grow large" gimmick while very useful, doesn't feel good when running off hand mace and is visually sub-par.  I'd prefer to see a different visual used here and slight adjustment to how it is generated to make it a bit more viable for off hand mace and with druid's astral form which right not it is hard to switch into to take advantage of Force of Nature.

Also effects which frequently cause characters to get big and then shrink are annoying.  It is fine for when they stay large for a healthy amount of time, but for effects 5 seconds or less I find it to be frustrating.  I'd much prefer a different visual effect be found.
 

2.)  This is not unique to Mace but any weapon which doesn't have some synergy with your pets feels like a missed opportunity to me.  Force of Nature could have easily been an effect that empower your pet in an interesting way and once again there is no attempt to capitalize on what makes the ranger unique.  It is a shame that mechanist gets Rocket Punch but we still have no such even basic combo attacks for the pet class.  It is an opportunity not just missed but aggressively avoided for some reason.

Positive:
1.)  This feels like the tightest and well design weapon set.  It is immediately useful and fun to play.  It just works really, really well for the Ranger.

Overall:
Mace just seems amazing.  It plays well with all classes and gives them a lot of really, really useful tools.  It seems to play well with all elite specs but played best with Unleashed which could ambush easily to take full advantage of Force of Nature and has least synergy with Druid due to the trouble of getting astral form to combo with Force of Nature.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kris Knives.8513
typo

[Willy.7849]

Hey, after testing the new Weapons for Ranger. i am "amaced". 😃

But there is still a little point i want to talk about. I am a Ranger Main and a support Player. At the Moment i am mostly playing Guardian with sometimes Herald and Scourge and newly again Druid.

In HoT and PoF i mained Druid (because he was more or less the only healer at that time). But had a break between late 2019 and early 2023. 

At the moment i have the feeling (mostly in Fractals, because in raids it is not that important) that the other healers beside Guardian and maybe Herald (but that is a exception) have no place there. One of the things that the other healers for fractals are lacking is stability next to other utilitys.

So now to the maces. I had the hope, that the prog of nature strengh would give stability to the whole group so that the Druid could get back into the fractals as a healer in the meta. 

The Druids only option at the moment for stability is the glyph of the stars and that is not enough.

So pls change that and i would be more then happy on the new weapons. 

Greetings.

A Ranger Main

[Gotejjeken.1267]

15 hours ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Started running some tests, it's supposed to be a support weapon right? 🤔

https://youtube.com/shorts/s0N9WoSvib0?si=PrfQL_QML4hAK75j

Yeah, all things considered these may actually be viable zerging weapons--here's a quick tower defense to add to your vid:

 

[Swagger.1459]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yeah, all things considered these may actually be viable zerging weapons--here's a quick tower defense to add to your vid:

 

I'm sorry, but unfortunately no, mace isn't viable outside of pve. The only things viable were the npcs and your side outnumbering the enemies, and that's clear by your vid. Your mace wielding contributions were negligible, and again that's clear by your vid.  

[enkeny.6937]

[PvE]
I always miss the pet skills on new ranger weapons. staff got it later, dagger had it from the beginning, but hammer and now mace still missing. So can we get that the pet also gets the Force of Nature's effect, please?

Found a bug: mace ambush don't trigger let loose. So no quickness....

for support: after testing about 30 min, I missed it during my raid time. With druid main hand is a must. I tested with the offhand. Not good for pure support, but good for triggering the 6th stack. Pressing 4 and 5 gives 3 stack. With that is is another 2 and 3 in the rotation. 

for damage: dual mace for quickness untamed (heal version too) has a very nice rotation. After ambush, pressing all you weapon skills to reset the cd on all. I did a little less damage as I did with hammer, but I think we need less boon duration with maces so it should be about the same. 

Tested with soul best. The rotation is not as nice as the untamed builds, but I found it very interesting. felt better than the hammer. 

When tested off-hand mace without the main-hand mace, it felt weird. getting 6 stack is actually hard. With weapon swap and good timing it is possible, but axe is better option. I need more testing for this. maybe for the second set? but then it sounds like a sword/axe mace/mace pair.

All in all they feel fantastic. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

I'm sorry, but unfortunately no, mace isn't viable outside of pve. The only things viable were the npcs and your side outnumbering the enemies, and that's clear by your vid. Your mace wielding contributions were negligible, and again that's clear by your vid.  

You'd have to step outside PvE to know this.  It's clear you never have by your read of the video 😂

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Oh ya, can we merge the two mace topics--every other topic seemingly gets merged but these two running in parallel with feedback in both which super confusing.  

[Ehecatl.9172]

I played a few matches in SPVP, first with dagger/mace to test it as an offhand and then with dual mace. Staff was my secondary both times and I was playing Untamed.

I like how they feel to use. The animations are solid. I think Mace 5 is my favorite. It's like your character just decided to be a drummer out of nowhere and wanted to jam out.

Can't say much as to their effectiveness yet but I didn't feel helpless with them. Dagger/Mace played a lot like dual dagger but with more AoE output in team fights and a little better sustain. I also noticed Mace was added to Ambidexterous, which is nice.

Dual mace felt a little sluggish but that's to be expected with a weapon like mace, I think.

Overall I enjoyed them and look forward to having them as a tool in my kit. Might need to buy another set of armor for a more power-oriented support set.

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You'd have to step outside PvE to know this.  It's clear you never have by your read of the video 😂

I never thought i'd ever say this but for once swagger is right - you do absolutely nothing in that vidoe. The dh would have died to guards even without your tickeling and the remaining few players just get zerged. But it gives a good impression on what sort of gameplay to expect from those that think maces are good in WvW i guess.

[psizone.8437]

I feel like mainhand mace is lacking a bit in the support department, vigor on autoattack could be regen and have Flourish give aegis.

Oaken Cudgel in WvW does no damage because of the CC, which is limiting the damage of the weapon a fair bit.

Wild Strikes is fun but I'd prefer an evade whilst using the skill to make offhand mace more defensive. Remove the daze if the evade is too strong with it.

[Swagger.1459]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You'd have to step outside PvE to know this.  It's clear you never have by your read of the video 😂

OK, sure. You kill some lone guardian fighting a tower lord and 2 guards, while you swipe a couple times with mace then use CA. You go down ramp and swipe at outnumbered enemies with your mace then use CA again. You run outside swipe some baddies getting pelted by your team, use CA again, then swap to GS. 

Your maces accomplished next to nothing, it was the NPCs and your team doing all the work. That's exactly what the video shows, yet here you are claiming "viable zerging weapon".   

[DarkFlopy.8197]

On 11/29/2023 at 11:14 AM, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Started running some tests, it's supposed to be a support weapon right? 🤔https://youtube.com/shorts/s0N9WoSvib0?si=PrfQL_QML4hAK75j

 

10 hours ago, enkeny.6937 said:

Found a bug: mace ambush don't trigger let loose. So no quickness....

Hmmm true, when I look in the short I posted it indeed didn't get the boons that the trait is supposed to be giving for using Ambush Skills (for WvW and sPvP case it's might)