They are selling hero points in the gem store now

[Burnfall.9573]

On 11/28/2023 at 1:00 PM, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

I don't know how to feel about this...

So now apparently you can buy an item that allows you to complete a hero challenge in any expansion. Pay some money, skip the hero challenge and get the points. Plus bonus, makes map completion easier cause you don't have to do them now, you can just pay money to complete it.

I don't know. Feels like a slippery slope. I'm curious why they thought to add this to the gem store. Just buy the power, no need to earn it now.

Hmm...

 

So Finally The Community Is Waking Up....Very Good!!

"When you think of your customers as transactions, they feel it, and they think of you and the service you provide as mere transactions as well – which means you’re just one ship in a sea of competitors. In other words, when they’re just a transaction, so are you."

"The bottom line: With transactional thinking, you’re cheating yourself and your customers. At the end of the day, you’re left with a slew of transactions, not a slew of customers"

 

2024 Upcoming Competitor's Awaits

Edited December 3, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Shiyo.3578]

Makes sense, they gave up on this game after IBS and are in extreme milking mode.

Gem sales are down and they're desperate to increase sales by any means.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Shiyo.3578

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

 

Gem sales are down and they're desperate to increase sales by any means.

Source?

[Shiyo.3578]

3 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Source?

gold > gems conversion is based on how many people are doing gems > gold

in game source

[kharmin.7683]

10 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

gold > gems conversion is based on how many people are doing gems > gold

in game source

And this equates to your position that gem sales are down?  You really should have hard facts from Anet to support that theory.  Where is the financial statement?

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

10 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

gold > gems conversion is based on how many people are doing gems > gold

in game source

That... has nothing to do with revenue ANet makes.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

6 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

I'm not complaining about locking features behind expansions.

I'm complaining that core specs  have not viability in PvE group content and that is a serious problem anet dont want to adress.

Again, watch metabatle, click dungeon/fractal and core elementalist is not even viable for this content. 

Okay, but that's a completely different discussion that belongs in another thread. That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You're also speaking like someone HAS to play a Metabattle build in order to do anything in the game. You can play core specs in fractals and dungeons and experience no actual issues and 90% of the playerbase won't care. As I said, I've also seen plenty of new players who only own SoTo run the new strikes with core specs, and any group I've been in has not failed because of it. The remaining 10% would ban you on any elite spec anyway if you don't hit damage numbers they don't like, so they're irrelevant.

Are they as strong as the "power crept from the beginning" elite specs? No, of course not. Does that mean they're completely useless and cannot complete content? Also no, they're slower but they'll finish runs just fine. I think you're forgetting that some of the better players in the game have done *raid CMs* with a full squad of naked players using only weapons. If THAT'S possible, then I have no idea how you think a fully decked out core spec can't do fractals and dungeons, which are mostly trivial content at this point.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

17 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

gold > gems conversion is based on how many people are doing gems > gold

in game source

Lol that's not how economics work.

Gem sales don't have to go down for conversion prices to go up. The DEMAND for gems has gone up due to sales, I.E. more people are BUYING gems with gold. Unless you have an actual financial chart, you have no way to tell if the supply is also going down or if the price spikes are *just* from the demand currently exceeding the supply.

[Cuks.8241]

Winning in mmorpgs for me is either defeating an opponent player (pvp) or defeating an encounter (pve).

A game is pay to win when you can swipe and get an advantage over fellow player. And I don't consider fellow player someone that already plays for years and had all that time to gear up. Fellow player is someone that has put similar amount of time and played at a similar level.

Buying an expansion or sub is not a problem, because it's a clear entry payment. Pay to win is when you can pour extra money in the game to get advantage.

Yes, gw2 is clearly pay to win for me. There is basically nothing worse than swiping for best gear (even if indirectly). It doesn't take as much from the game as with horizontal progression games though and spvp is completely fair which is basically the most important condition for me.

Wow was not pay to win when I still played it. Don't know how it's today, I think you can now buy gold (not sure). It was more expensive to play, sure. But everyone that bought it and payed sub was on equal footing (excluding illegal practices).

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

gold > gems conversion is based on how many people are doing gems > gold

in game source

That's not how it woooooooorks.

By your theory people stopped buying gems (or bought substantially less of them) when the recent sales came out and started buying gems again... right after the sales ended?

Edited December 3, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Ashantara.8731]

22 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Look, maybe you weren't there, and maybe you don't know about WoW, but it really doesn't matter what a lot of people consider. A lot of people think a lot of things that are simply incorrect, because they never learned better.

Pay to win talks about buying power in the cash shop. It was a way to distinguish between legitimate games and games that you couldn't keep up with unless you continually spent cash in the cash shop. Games that had predatory business practices that kept you paying every week or month. Not buying an expansion. That was never the definition of pay to win.

Almost every single MMO that releases an expansion has a level cap that increases. Those expansions are necessary because it's part of the game moving forward. You will not be able to compete with people who own the expansion because they'll be a higher level than you. This is true of pretty much the entire genre. Expansions are an expected part of play.  This game launched as pay to play game, not a free to play game. That means buying expansions were part of the contract from day one. It's the way the day survive. The expansions are selling you features and zones and story, not just power. 

When someone says that I can spend money in the cash shop to get something that gives me hero points that I could just as easily get in the game without spending any money at all in a completely reasonble amount of time, it's no different from a level 80 boost. Shortcuts and time savers are not pay to win, unless the grind to get something is so excessive, most people can't do it without actually paying that money. There were games where if you didn't pay, you have a long term disadvantage over other people who did pay, usually in open world PvP, and that wasn't a one time payment, because no sooner did you get your top stats, that you had to pay again. That's not like this in this game.

You can say that buying expansions is pay to win, but if you do, you run into this trap. Every single game is pay to win and now you no longer can distinguish legitimate games from games that want you to pay constantly.   WoW is a stop closer to pay to win because you have to pay to play it every month and still have to buy expansions which increase your power and give you cool kitten. Every single expansion. But no one is calling WoW pay to win.

The real misnomer here, if there is one, is that Guild Wars 2 is free to play, but the Guild Wars 2 series is not. It's buy to play. You were always expected to buy expansions. No MMORPG can give you infinite content for free.  Some charge for expansions and a montly fee and they all increase power, but no one calls them pay to win. The only reason people call this game pay to win is because they don't understand that it's a buy to play game. It started as a buy to play game. They made the core game free and you can play that for free and you can stay there forever. But if you wish to continue on to the rest of the game, it's buy to play. You're expected to buy expansions.

Expansions were never considered part of p2w and if you want to put them there, that's on you. But once you do, every MMO is pay to win, the term loses any meaning or value and you've changed the definition of an existing word and made it something it's not.

A lot of people thought Guild Wars 2 was an MMO, most people that played it. It was not. It was a lobby game. But people still call it an MMORPG even though Anet never did. If people dont' want to educate themselves, that's their lookout. But they can still be wrong.

I sincerely admire your patience to write all this down.

This is something that should be clear to everyone, and I find it mind-boggling that someone has to take the time to spell it out for them. I'm afraid there will still be people who don't get it even after reading such a well-written, coherent explanation of the matter.

Edit: Reactions show I was right. 😄
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Freya.9075]

2 hours ago, Roads.5130 said:

 

Do not say that out loud, contradictory information will confuse the kids arguing that the game is not pay to win and they WILL confuse emote the hell out of your reply due to their inability to make an actual argument.

I see you’re interested in the definition of pay to win while calling people “kids” for seeing pay to win for what it originally was. I can assure you most of these “kids” are way older than you and have experienced the true meaning of it.

Let me introduce you to a true pay to win game: Fiesta online. You want to level up without grinding the same mobs for weeks to gain one level and then die once and lose your progress because you need a shop item for real money to not lose 10% of the total amount of experience when you die? Please cough up some money to buy this lovely item to soothe your pain. You want to play some PvP? Sure! But you’ll need to pay money for gears with stats to compete with others. Oh and they last for a week or at most a month at a time. And you better stack up cause you don’t know when the gear you need will be back! And don’t forget to enchant your gear and weapons! Grinding for months for each gear or weapon, you also better buy an item to make sure it doesn’t break when you try to enchant them. Or you can ofc start grinding for a new one if it breaks for a few months since stats are all random so you never know when you’ll come across a good gear part that you will fight with 4 other players to get. “But just buy these items with ingame currency duuuuh” well you see, there is no such thing as currency trading. People can gift and trade. But you can’t trade items that costs money as they are bound to the character you use at the time. Which makes scammers thrive by “promising” to trade gold for said item the player gift them for then to log out and you never see them again as the trade system does not allow you to trade in a safe way. 

Ah, sweet memories of the blessings this game gave me is raining down on me! Wait, that’s not rain!!

Point is, the meaning of pay to win may have changed through time, but only because people started to throw it around as hyperbole not knowing what the true meaning is. It got way to normalized to the point every mmo out there will fall into this negative viewpoint.

Ironically, based on your claims, it’s the older players who still see pay to win as it originally was and the “kids” would be the players who never experienced what this truly means.

[Roads.5130]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Glad we can put this to rest now, pay to win have a very negative stigma that wont go away no matter how people try to deulde it.

You forgot the /s.

Let's not also forget that this is not about how people feel about pay to win, I don't care if it has a stigma attached to it, if a game has pay to win practices then it can be called pay to win.

 

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

And Gw2 have never been pay to win just buy to play from the start and still is.

I don't know how it was, and I really don't care, but it certainly is pay to win now.

 

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

The core free to play is more seen like a very generous try before you buy thing.

Yeah I agree, free to play content is a huge demo,  then you have to actually purchase the game, then you have to purchase each expansion, then can also purchase enough gold to max out your weapons on day one.

[Burnfall.9573]

 

 

What is happening is call Predatory Monetization...The Entrapment Effect because it entraps players players -'noob trap'  to pay to win....to feel obligated tp pay to get what they want  

Predatory Monetization-

"Predatory monetization schemes in video games are purchasing systems that disguise or withhold the long-term cost of the activity until players are already financially and psychologically committed."

 

"Entrapment by microtransactions may occur because the costs are less salient 7, because these transactions are represented as virtual credits or credit card debt."

 

The Entrapment Effect-

"The Entrapment Effect (Rogers, 1998): The Entrapment Effect argues that people may feel obligated to continue investing in the game because they have already invested too much money to give up their pursuit. Similar to Chasing, the gamer may feel obligated to continue purchasing loot boxes until they eventually get what they want. After all, they’ve already spent so much in their pursuit, they may as well reach their win state."

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.14286

https://platinumparagon.wordpress.com/2017/11/16/the-psychology-of-loot-boxes-and-microtransactions/

Edited December 3, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Roads.5130]

38 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I see you’re interested in the definition of pay to win while calling people “kids” for seeing pay to win for what it originally was.

I call them kids because those poor souls can not distinguish a bad feature in a game from a bad game, apparently. Whatever definition they use is completely irrelevant to call them kids or not.

 

38 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I can assure you most of these “kids” are way older than you and have experienced the true meaning of it.

I can assure you not.

 

38 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Let me introduce you to a true pay to win game: Fiesta online.

Please don't, I don't care, it is completely irrelevant how the old times were. How your great great uncle used to play videogames is completely irrelevant to what the current business model behind most games currently is.

 

38 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Point is, the meaning of pay to win may have changed through time, but only because people started to throw it around as hyperbole not knowing what the true meaning is

Yeah, as I said on another reply, everything changes, words,  games, bussiness models, it is not a matter of if we like or not but if we accept it or we delude ourselves

Edited December 3, 2023 by Roads.5130

[Roads.5130]

43 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Ironically, based on your claims, it’s the older players who still see pay to win as it originally was and the “kids” would be the players who never experienced what this truly means.

Ironically, sticking to archaic definitions to deal with current issues is precisely why the older players can no longer experience what pay to win truly means in the current environment.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

This has to be one of the most pointless discussions I've ever witnessed. Going round and round restating the same opinions over and over with no consensus anywhere in sight.

Waiting for a mod to close this with the usual comment of "This thread has run its course." I guess they have the weekend off.

[Roads.5130]

1 minute ago, Manasa Devi.7958 said:

This has to be one of the most pointless discussions I've ever witnessed. Going round and round restating the same opinions over and over with no consensus anywhere in sight.

Waiting for a mod to close this with the usual comment of "This thread has run its course." I guess they have the weekend off.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Freya.9075]

12 minutes ago, Roads.5130 said:

Ironically, sticking to archaic definitions to deal with current issues is precisely why the older players can no longer experience what pay to win truly means in the current environment.

So, what are they? Older players or kids? Contradicting yourself makes this discussion moot 

[Roads.5130]

2 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

So, what are they? Older players or kids? Contradicting yourself makes this discussion moot 

No, focusing on such nonsense is what makes this discussion moot, I already explained to you why I called them kids. 

[Freya.9075]

Just now, Roads.5130 said:

No, focusing on such nonsense is what makes this discussion moot, I already explained to you why I called them kids. 

Ah, yes, the people who explain what it actually means only to get a snarky reply from such a mature and polite person surely makes them the kid. I got it! Thank you for clarifying 👍

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

Honest question:  Was GW2 'pay to win' before the Hero Point Unlock Scroll?  Are we already sliding down that slope, or are we taking that fateful first step?

I think that there are such widely varying opinions on what constitutes 'Pay To Win', that this is going to just go 'round and 'round.   Some people's definitions are much too loose, some are too restrictive.   And few of us seem willing to consider an alternate point of view.

I wonder if this will waste itself on repeatable hero points?(the wiki doesn't mention anything about that) - the WvW version does not waste itself this way, so hopefully the gem store won't either. .  See Danikat's clarification below.  (And thank you Dani)  🙂

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Hero_Point_Scroll

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_challenge#Heroics_Notary

I've bought and spent one of these, and it's totally random as to what HP in what expansion it unlocks.  The WvW version at least seems to let you choose what expansion (or Core) to unlock from.

To actually accomplish something with this, it seems like you'd need to either buy a lot of them or manually unlock most of the Hero Points on that character - using a few scrolls for the difficult/undesirable ones.  Either way it costs you something to properly make use of these.

To me, we already have way point unlocks, and level 80 boosts.  Which I also consider *convenience*.  If that stuff 'makes GW2 pay to win', then it already is by that definition.  How is the Black Lion Hero Point Unlock Scroll any different and/or worse?

To be honest, if people want to get upset about something - loot boxes have been in the game since the beginning.  And other forms of gambling have been in for quite a while.  This is what I'd get upset about.(if I was going to)

Edited December 4, 2023 by Elden Arnaas.4870
clarification

[Roads.5130]

7 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Ah, yes, the people who explain what it actually means only to get a snarky reply from such a mature and polite person surely makes them the kid. I got it! Thank you for clarifying 👍

I am the one who is explaining what actually means only to get snarky replies from some of you.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

1 hour ago, Roads.5130 said:

I am the one who is explaining what actually means only to get snarky replies from some of you.

It has no single meaning that is generally agreed upon, and it's not even a generational difference of opinion. Nothing written here will convince anyone who already has an opinion. So, I can only reiterate my opinion, which is that the discussion is pointless. 

 

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

I am honestly disappointed on Anet for doing this, as the community is very helpful, from time to time you get to see ppl running HP trains.