The Dungeon Rush is fun, but might be a bit to hard, specialy for the reward

[WaifuJanna.9108]

6 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

The rush showed me how strong power creep is since we steamrolled them all pretty hard. Faster and easier than Fractals.

Arah still takes too long though and is smelly.

 

now do it with non tryhard meta build. without buff-food, just do a public run with casuals. Of course if you run the dungeon with  5 people > 500 mastery , thats easy...

Thats like saying solving an differential equation is easy too if you have a degree, but for the normal majority who doesn't have a specific math classes after they left school, they dont even know what a differential equation ist. 😄

 

You cannot compare perfect build/meta scenarios vs normal playing..

[Cyninja.2954]

8 minutes ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

now do it with non tryhard meta build. without buff-food, just do a public run with casuals. Of course if you run the dungeon with  5 people > 500 mastery , thats easy...

Thats like saying solving an differential equation is easy too if you have a degree, but for the normal majority who doesn't have a specific math classes after they left school, they dont even know what a differential equation ist. 😄

 

You cannot compare perfect build/meta scenarios vs normal playing..

We aren't. "Perfect" meta and speedrun scenarios would see this content be cleared within 1-1.5 hours. All the dungeons!

Realistic scenarios are around 1-1.5 hours per 8 paths, unless you are talking about players who have 0 experience with dungeons going in the first time. At which point the question arises: why should rewards be balanced around 0 experience groups?

The 5 gold per 8 paths, plus tokens which can be converted into rares/ecto, have been a decent reward in the past and are now even better with the dungeon rush bonus.

The power creep ensures that most bosses pose no threat and most of the mechanics can be skipped bar the unavoidable ones, which again means even inexperienced players will have an easier time than in the past.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Holmindeboks.3490]

11 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

yeah lol, thats like saying you get 5 dealt for every 8 metas, and only 20 silver for each meta...

Doing 8 dungeons, how long should that take? 4-5 hours for 5 gold?

Yes, people should play for fun, and not for gold, but it still feels bit insulting, and it hurt the community in the long run (even with the dungeon rush event, the LFG tool is not that crowded compared to "Hallowen Lab Farms"...

 

 

Guildwars 2 is not made for rewarding ppl. Its a business. The game is made for showing endless shinys in store while making gold is so hard that you can only ignore the shiny’s. Or if you could not resist then you use your wallet. But once you have used your wallet. It will be to easy to do again for a next time. Only the very rich players make more and more. Or the skilled players. I think this event is made for the sweats that got bored because they already have everything (in game ofc) and so the reward is not their goal but the challange itself. 
 

the ppl who accept 5 gold for 8 paths doesnt care about their time. Or they dont know that you can get more for less work. 
 

the ppl who say it can be much faster are probably ppl who use glitches, or stealth, or try hard sweats who are buffed as if its a world tourney raid cm. And a pre made group. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490

[TheNurgle.4825]

11 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

Also it looks like many new players dont realise they have to do the exploration mode, not the story mode and it would be nice if the Story mode would be soloable with npc's as an introduction, so the "Explorer mode" is for the tryhards.

Wut? I did all dungeons as story and you can carry other 4 ppl there. Only Arah was explo, but that is easy anyway. I did them as story since I knew that explo would rough some ppl would skip some don!t know how and so on.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

8 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

If people aren't doing weird builds and have a competent level 80 party, it's more like an hour to do all 8 paths.  If the group goes full sweaty, they can get 16 fast paths  in that same hour, I believe.

I think you exaggerate just a little there. 16 paths in 1 hour is 3 minutes 45 seconds per path, including all the unskippable dialogue and loading screens.

Looking at the speedrun.com rankings there are only a couple of dungeons that can be done that quickly. Most of them take at least 4-6 minutes, or even as long as 15 minutes. The data is very thin but some of these runs were done in the last 8 months, i.e. during the last bonus event. I'm also not sure how these are timed but to complete them all "within an hour" you'd need to factor in moving between dungeons and starting each path too, which across 16 paths will quickly add up.

But yes in terms of the general point, you could do all dungeons in just a couple of hours quite easily, so shouldn't be struggling to do two in one hour. But then this is the difference between people who are speed runners, people who have at least run the dungeon in the past, and people who have never touched them.

[willow.8209]

11 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

took us a decent hour to finish

one of the dungeons is notoriously long, but i play mostly solo so I'm not sure which. the other dungeons can be faster.

I did try one with just 2 people and that took a while but we did finish.

[vandrefalk.6823]

You only need to do 1 path from every dungeon for the full rewards, don't you? Plus one DRM.

Did all 3 explorable paths in Sorrow's Embrace in about 20 minutes last night with a pug group from lfg... if you're all lvl 80 with some masteries and gear, everything dies in a heartbeat.

I can understand it would take longer with less experienced players, who may not be max level even, or with "bad" gear or alternative builds (to metas/optimal builds), but understand dungeons are 10+ years old and most players in a public group would know tactics of most paths, and should breeze through.

Apart from Arah which is a bit more lengthy, if you're taking more than 20-30 minutes to clear a path, I'd either ask for coordination in the group about strat or simply take your bow and leave to clear it in half the time with the next pug group.

[willow.8209]

3 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

My only issue with dungeons is knowing which alts have done the story modes. Unless they made that easier? 

i got the story completion achieve for doing story with various alts, so probably easier yes

[Luthan.5236]

I first thought 1 week would be too short. But since they are (afaik mentioned in some older news/blog post) planning to do such stuff regularly (rotating between the different "rushes" we had so far and bringing one of them every now and then) this might be just fine.

The groups in lfg fill up fast. And there are enough. And the power creep really made stuff easy. I have my almost 40k AP account and never touched dungeons. Only fractals up to T3 and the easy strikes. When I got into fractals (starting with the 1st fractal rush) it was the 1st time i tried this kind of content. Dungeons were not played a lot anymore though.

Did 5 story modes yesterday at the evening - pretty fast. Joined other groups. (Did not need to make my own lfg and not need to wait long for other groups to appear.) The vids with the cutscenes I have watched in youtube ages ago - as part of the core personal story. (To not miss out on them.) Just need to watch for explorable pathes (if they also have cut scenes) on Yt.

Will try the remaining story modes today and then  2-3 of the dungons (in order) the paths once ... for completion. Later ones at a later date/rush. Since I have the vendor unlocked for the important stuff (from story mode Arah - which was soloable) done before they changed the system ... I have no pressure here. Just for the achievements I guess.

Since it allows for DRMs (soloable) it also should be possible for solo players that don't want to solo the dungeons ... to get the cape (last reward step).

[Zzik.5873]

Dungeon too hard?!? Defintly look like a skill issue, also full vitality gear? Thats kind of grieffing no?

[WaifuJanna.9108]

3 minutes ago, Zzik.5873 said:

Dungeon too hard?!? Defintly look like a skill issue, also full vitality gear? Thats kind of grieffing no?

you can be full vitality gear and still have high power... its called Marauder set.  And a bunch of new players dont even have rare/exotics.

 

So yes, me in full ascendant/legendary Marauder gear, should not get 2-3 shot by random enemies.

Edited December 6, 2023 by WaifuJanna.9108

[Cyninja.2954]

12 minutes ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

you can be full vitality gear and still have high power... its called Marauder set.  And a bunch of new players dont even have rare/exotics.

 

So yes, me in full ascendant/legendary Marauder gear, should not get 2-3 shot by random enemies.

Of course you should, those enemies used to 1-shot players. The idea behind dungeons back then was: use defensive skills, mitigate damage via dodging and weaving in and out of range.

Just goes to show how little some players remember "the good old days" while continuously harping on about "GW2 was always made as a casual game".

Start using blocks, aegis, blind and reflects and see your success-rate go up. You aren't meant to face tank enemies in dungeons and the fact that you even can to some extent just is thanks to power creep.

Now I will agree that the original concept was less fun to the majority of players, hence why the developers started going a different direction with HoT actually allowing face tanking and a more traditional approach to instanced content. Let this be a lesson though to all of you that have forgotten what instanced content was like before.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Qys.5937]

12 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I think you're remembering the aetherblade path of twilight arbor and conflating it with arah. 

When you do Arah for personal story there is a part on an airship where you use shields to reflect rocks back at giants, shoot down zombie dragons then kill Zhaitan

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I usually run Dungeons with lowlevel players and people with customized builds. The huge problem for the raiders/tryhards is that most of the targets do not even survive a full rotation. If you engage anything with a 20-40k DPS machine, you spend most of the time skipping the cutscenes and running through the place.

I intend to do the rush with mostly Story Dungeons, which can be soloed with appropriate builds. Going slowly, watching cutscenes, probably doing a little sight-seeing on the go. The content is not bad, it is just old and not very challenging anymore - difficulty wise. TA Aetherpath & Arah are special, but those can be skipped. You can also teach newbies the basics about modern instanced content with Dungeons. How crowd control works, how to see if a boss is about to channel an attack, how to dodge/avoid massive incoming damage, when it is appropriate to go ranged ... etc. 

Looking forward to it.

[WaifuJanna.9108]

11 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

I usually run Dungeons with lowlevel players and people with customized builds. The huge problem for the raiders/tryhards is that most of the targets do not even survive a full rotation. If you engage anything with a 20-40k DPS machine, you spend most of the time skipping the cutscenes and running through the place.

I intend to do the rush with mostly Story Dungeons, which can be soloed with appropriate builds. Going slowly, watching cutscenes, probably doing a little sight-seeing on the go. The content is not bad, it is just old and not very challenging anymore - difficulty wise. TA Aetherpath & Arah are special, but those can be skipped. You can also teach newbies the basics about modern instanced content with Dungeons. How crowd control works, how to see if a boss is about to channel an attack, how to dodge/avoid massive incoming damage, when it is appropriate to go ranged ... etc. 

Looking forward to it.

yeah, one of the main reason i enjoy GW2, and it is the only mmorpg i am playing since almost 10 years now is, that GW2 was used to be the casuall friendly community, nowdays its still on of the best and friendliest community in the mmorpg genre, but there seems to be a minor hardcore/tryhard audience nowdays too, that want to force their gameplay-style to everyone.

You should play the build and class that is FUN for you, and not the build/class that is top 5 on metabattle...
Yes GW2 is an casuall/horizontal progression game, but at same time GW2 is one of the most difficulty MMORPGs out there too. (just do the /deaths and /age command and look how often you died in gw2... in most mmorpgs you can pull half the map and 2 shot them, in gw2 if you pull 3-4 mobs there is already high chance you might die)

Me personally have 3 deaths/h on average, and that includes tons of afk time, story time and cutscene time... So in reallity its even higher. Tell me one other mmorpg where you die 3 or more times per hour on average 😄

Edited December 6, 2023 by WaifuJanna.9108

[Biziut.3594]

Peoples play as peoples like to play. Be it tryhard or casual. No one is forcing you to go full tryhard balanced meta composition or whatever, but do not expect to clear content in the same time and with the same ease they do.

Make content even easier, and it will become even more boring and trivial for the part of the playerbase, and I personally don't think it is good for the game.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

39 minutes ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

but there seems to be a minor hardcore/tryhard audience nowdays too, that want to force their gameplay-style to everyone.

Rich, from the person who started the thread with the goal to nerf 11 year old content to suit his idea of how this game should be enjoyed.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

now do it with non tryhard meta build. without buff-food, just do a public run with casuals.

That's exactly how I did it.

 

1 hour ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

So yes, me in full ascendant/legendary Marauder gear, should not get 2-3 shot by random enemies.

How do you get to legendary items and still not understand that this game won't carry you with just gear rarity? And that's a good thing btw.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Lucius.2140]

6 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

now do it with non tryhard meta build. without buff-food, just do a public run with casuals. Of course if you run the dungeon with  5 people > 500 mastery , thats easy...

Thats like saying solving an differential equation is easy too if you have a degree, but for the normal majority who doesn't have a specific math classes after they left school, they dont even know what a differential equation ist. 😄

 

You cannot compare perfect bu--ild/meta scenarios vs normal playing..

Speed runners can do Arah paths in 8-9 minutes. And a lot of paths in less than that. And those numbers were before elite specs and the power creep.

If you dont have a build that is close to dps (in both gears, skills and traits) it will cost you way more ofc. Specially if you aren't boon stacking. But what i described isn't either a tryhard (tryhards will known rotations to try to rise more their dps and you dont need a metabuild to multiply your dps) , neither with food.

I do agree that builds that are too casual, in other words too hibrid will make things way more difficult.

GW2 punish a lot builds that arent centered around a function because of how damage multipliers work. Best comparison is a healer build vs a dps build: 1-2 k dps vs 20-30 k dps (if rotation isnt good).

[Doggie.3184]

6 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

now do it with non tryhard meta build. without buff-food, just do a public run with casuals. Of course if you run the dungeon with  5 people > 500 mastery , thats easy...

Thats like saying solving an differential equation is easy too if you have a degree, but for the normal majority who doesn't have a specific math classes after they left school, they dont even know what a differential equation ist. 😄

 

You cannot compare perfect build/meta scenarios vs normal playing..

No idea what builds people were using, just joined a random LFG with my Rifle MCH (which isn't worthy DPS of Snowcrows list anymore) with Signets, Throw Mine and Birthday Cake. Think only me and 1-2 others were max mastery, some runs had fresh newbies.

Only difficult part was in Arah the golem running part with infinite spawn was buggy/annoying/slow so I ended up just running ahead and soloing the boss cuz Engi with Rocket Boots can't be caught or reasoned with. One other person eventually reached me to help kill. Only strong enemies were the Rifle users in Caudecus Manor who use god tier black market guns we don't have access to.

[Farohna.6247]

I ran eight paths in under two hours, with LFG players, who varied in experience.  The couple of times I died were due to my own poor placement, or not following the mechanics.  It was fun, nice casual groups.  

It's good to see players doing it for the first time and veterans helping guide or explain.  I haven't done every path in every dungeon, so it's fun revisiting and doing one I haven't completed.  

[Darklord Roy.2514]

18 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

yeah lol, thats like saying you get 5 dealt for every 8 metas, and only 20 silver for each meta...

Doing 8 dungeons, how long should that take? 4-5 hours for 5 gold?

Yes, people should play for fun, and not for gold, but it still feels bit insulting, and it hurt the community in the long run (even with the dungeon rush event, the LFG tool is not that crowded compared to "Hallowen Lab Farms"...

 

 

I definitely don't think this speaks for the majority of players. 8 paths should not take anywhere close to 4 or 5 hours with a semi competent party, even on just core specs. You can do that in an hour to hour and a half (depending on paths) fairly easily and casually by just skipping all of the filler mobs in between the actual important events/bosses. Power creep has turned all of the bosses essentially into lightweight punching bags, and fully clearing every enemy on your path is a waste of time that doesn't reward you for doing it.

If you're running paths with a party of entirely new players who *do* try to clear every single mob, then educate them and tell them that you have done this before and to stay with you. Claiming that rewards are lacking when you and/or your group is performing significantly sub-optimally is fallacious and doesn't touch on any real problem with the event.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Darklord Roy.2514

[zeyeti.8347]

18 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

just not playing with super tryhard people.. i play with public people, who probably play casually too.  Specialy with the level downscaling, in the ascalon dungeon you barely hit 1000 dmg numbers, most of the time its between 200-400

If you expect doing things super fast with chill people well it's a bit controversy, if you wants things fats you ahve to go full damage and meta builds

like ppl say above if you play a meta build and goes in for a rush you can finish a "considered" fast path in 5 minutes. I personnaly play reaper with full shouts , using all shouts literally kills everythings in a room or at least soften everything up.

Also take some classes who aren't quite affected by the downscale , reaper shine there cause Death Perception is not affected by downscale for the +15% crit. chance , also you should better invest in +7% crit. chance on sigils instead of going +++precision with runes or stuff , cause précision is downscaled.

Other classes who shines are rev. with +100% efficiency on fury , engi with the flat +30% crit. chance , can't think of another class with high based crit. chances trough traitline.

If you go the chill way , you will have chilled results ofc.

Edited December 6, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Linken.6345]

16 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

If you expect doing things super fast with chill people well it's a bit controversy, if you wants things fats you ahve to go full damage and meta builds

like ppl say above if you play a meta build and goes in for a rush you can finish a "considered" fast path in 5 minutes. I personnaly play reaper with full shouts , using all shouts literally kills everythings in a room or at least soften everything up.

Also take some classes who aren't quite affected by the downscale , reaper shine there cause Death Perception is not affected by downscale for the +15% crit. chance , also you should better invest in +7% crit. chance on sigils instead of going +++precision with runes or stuff , cause précision is downscaled.

Other classes who shines are rev. with +100% efficiency on fury , engi with the flat +30% crit. chance , can't think of another class with high based crit. chances trough traitline.

If you go the chill way , you will have chilled results ofc.

Think guardian got some crit chance trait too.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Think guardian got some crit chance trait too.

Radiant Trait line, makes Resolution give extra 25% crit, as well as base 10% crit chance bonus on burning foes.
Allows Open World Power Guards to run Zerk mixed with 0 crit gear at 40% Crit base and still cap Crit Chance.