Dawdler.8521 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said: If someone would like to help me just understand this whole thing, that would be great. And just to clarify - I understand the concept of WR, but I'm finding contradictions within Anet's own announcements that's leaving me with question marks in terms of what to expect. They said: "[WR will] also give players more agency in choosing who they want to play with on an ongoing basis and allows long-standing communities to continue playing together." But, they also said: "[WR introduces] a team-building system to the game mode in which players and guilds are programmatically redistributed to new teams (previously known as shards) on a set schedule." So we can choose our own communities that we can play with long-term, yet the teams we'll be in are programmatically redistributed on a set schedule. My question is, how can we actually choose to continue playing together if our own teams get redistributed from each other anyway? There is no contradiction. The flaw with WvW linking is that the "shards" (a name no one has ever in the history of GW2 used for worlds, except Anet in literally only this announcement) are too big to balance out the average populations. You cant make them smaller without breaking them apart. That is WR. The "agency" they are talking about is letting the players choose their guilds. The 500 max players of a guild is never "redistributed", but they are auto-balanced to form a larger team on a monthly basis if they stick to that. Edited January 11 by Dawdler.8521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meerfunkuhtron.9725 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: The "agency" they are talking about is letting the players choose their guilds. The 500 max players of a guild is never "redistributed", but they are auto-balanced to form a larger team on a monthly basis if they stick to that. Right, I get that if you have a guild consisting of 500 players already, that you won't have to worry about it. My questions were for people who do not belong to a guild that already has 500 members. What I'm understanding from this is, if I'm a player that's part of a small WvW guild, we'll be paired with other guilds until we form a team of 500 players? Is that correct? And, when the scheduled "redistribution" happens, does that mean that the process I said above restarts (your guild will be paired with another group of guilds to form 500) OR do we continue stay with the same general group of people/guilds unless some heavy rebalancing has to occur? Sorry if I'm having you repeat yourself. I've been getting different explanations about this over the years, and have only taken part in one beta event that I don't remember. So the confusion is real. Edited January 12 by meerfunkuhtron.9725 added question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 5 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said: What I'm understanding from this is, if I'm a player that's part of a small WvW guild, we'll be paired with other guilds until we form a team of 500 players? Is that correct? Incorrect. We don’t know how large teams will be - the advantage of WR is that Anet can set a target and create X amount of teams and thus matchup tiers, based on the total pool of players. The teams are the current worlds/servers. They contain the guilds. A team could for example be 500+500 (two large guilds) +250+100+150 (three medium guilds) + countless smaller guilds and random guildless players to a target of ~2500 players. It’s the teams that then are “redistributed” on a monthly basis. WR is still essentially the link system with smaller and capped server sizes (ie a guild) that players now control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithril Ashwalker.6230 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 im all for this but what about map exploiters in wvw? glitchers/teleport hackers? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 15 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said: If someone would like to help me just understand this whole thing, that would be great. And just to clarify - I understand the concept of WR, but I'm finding contradictions within Anet's own announcements that's leaving me with question marks in terms of what to expect. Your observation of contradiction is fundamentally correct, apart from some technicalities of numbers that have already been explained to you. Your small guild of 20 players will be redistributed monthly to form a team of 2000 players (roughly because we don't really know the numbers) alternatively your guild has the option to join a community guild if it is in close contact with other guilds to form a group of up to a maximum of 500 players. which will still be used monthly to build a team of 2000 players. The contradiction you see doesn't change. Because for sure we will have teams that are much better balanced in terms of flow. But at the same time, we lose any possibility of long/medium-term comparison. The counter is monthly, if we want to build a tournament or a team ranking it will be monthly. Then it starts all over again. Your guild will be redistributed to a new team and the season starts all over again. The 'critical' part of this change is all here. In addition to the other smaller issue you mentioned about players participating in WVW taking breaks, whether voluntary or unexpected. If a player leaves WVW for any reason to..... Let's say 60 days, by the time he comes back his guild may have reorganized and selected a WVW umbrella guild or whatever. And that player may actually not be able to play with his teammates for the next month. For this possible problem Anet wrote somewhere that he could consider keeping a space like 5% of a team (2000 players) and give the possibility to the latter players ''late or forgetful'' to select the team in which he wants to play. But it's still to be understood. Edited January 12 by Mabi black.1824 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) I have asked several times in this forum to Anet, to consider making WR work with a 1 year seasonal counter (like all serious sports competitions) and add a sort of carrot to be delivered at the end of the season to all the guilds and players who participated in the season, even if only symbolic, just to stimulate the participation of the players, to group with others etc etc . but I have never received any answers or comparisons on the merits from our friends at Anet. I also suggested overhauling our points system, to make it more fluid and unpredictable, where daily or weekly events can affect the points your team earns for the season. In fact, I read in the last communication from Anet that this is something they might consider going forward. But there has never been a constructive or exploratory confrontation, always with Anet's friends. ✌️ Edited January 12 by Mabi black.1824 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said: I have asked several times in this forum to Anet, to consider making WR work with a 1 year seasonal counter (like all serious sports competitions) And it’s just as ridiculous every time, because no one wants that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodio.6134 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said: im all for this but what about map exploiters in wvw? glitchers/teleport hackers? that´s irrelevant in the context of WR, because it´s a general unrelated problem. The main purpose of doing WR is changing how worlds are build and players are distributed. This may or may not come with other changes on the long run, but that´s not the primary goal. Anything related to bugfixes, exploits, game-balance etc. is an entirely different area of development. Heck, it´s probably even an entirely different developer-team that handles that stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 17 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said: Right, I get that if you have a guild consisting of 500 players already, that you won't have to worry about it. My questions were for people who do not belong to a guild that already has 500 members. What I'm understanding from this is, if I'm a player that's part of a small WvW guild, we'll be paired with other guilds until we form a team of 500 players? Is that correct? And, when the scheduled "redistribution" happens, does that mean that the process I said above restarts (your guild will be paired with another group of guilds to form 500) OR do we continue stay with the same general group of people/guilds unless some heavy rebalancing has to occur? Sorry if I'm having you repeat yourself. I've been getting different explanations about this over the years, and have only taken part in one beta event that I don't remember. So the confusion is real. I admit before New Year Anet had stated they would be back with a blog on the WR with more details. Either they should have written a post or they missed in delivering the blog that was mentioned which is a marketing oops in my book since this would have been an opportunity to share more info on changes they have been making to the algorithms and chances to showcase features. So part of you confusion is in the 500. 500 was targeted as the number of players across various guilds could link up together as part of an Alliance which was subfeature of the WR project. 500 was used to match up with guild limits. An over all world/server/shard, the thing we currently consider as a sever, is of an unknown size more than that, that was meant to contain these Alliances but in a way that they were not the dominating population. Anet did not share percentages but again stated in prior releases that an Alliance would be part of these worlds and would be layered in first when sorting followed by Guild and players. So by capping Alliances at max Guild size potentials they could use and Alliance of many Guilds to likewise balance out Guilds of various size. Then non-Guilded players could further be used to help balance out numbers once both Allliances and No-Alliance Guilds were factored into the numbers. Now fast forward to this test. Alliances are currently onhold as they work out issues with the UI and dynamics on how they would be created. Anet looked at what they were trying to do and then considered the fact that an Alliance looked a lot like what some community guilds were already doing by creating a server wide Guild to group like minded players together so they said why not just and handle it that way for now. The sorting logic was already adding up numbers from Guilds in a fashion that was also used by An Alliance minus the coding they were getting tied up in with the Guild linking an user interface. 500 was an Alliance max and a prior Guild max so when they talk about people linking up they are also using this in the idea of form up a community Guild to group with people that you might already see on a regular basis. So now lets go back and picture what you are facing. What will happen is that when sorting occurs your Guild will be ranked with other Guilds of similar players, play hours (hopefully time of play) and Guilds will be distributed out to new servers first based on similar numbers. Picture a round robin system, everyone get one that is x, now everyone gets a y, everyone gets a z and so fourth as the system tries to balance out distributions. Once Guilds are all placed out in new groups(server/shards/worlds) now non-associated players are then layered in to help balance those groups out and better balance them. Now you mentioned non-active players. Anet should have been collecting (this is not shared information so some assumptions here) information on players, and various attributes that they have determined will be used to determine numbers for individual players. As an example, take a simple Guild of 5 players. Each player will have their own numbers but those individuals will roll up their numbers to form a Guild's definition so that it can stacked up to other guilds when that round robin process occurs. So a 5 player guild would be ranked against other 5 player guilds based on their number of 5 players plus other attributed like this 5 player guild plays 20 hours a week and this one plays 40 hours a week to further sort them out. So if a Guild has non-active numbers that should also be accounted for with some margin for potential play or average play time already factored in. This Guild has 40 players but 35 of them play only 1 hour a week so weigh them out with that in mind. One of the potential additional reasons that they had been adding in a Bonus event when these run is to gather info on the potential play time factors for their background numbers on players and to use for their potential factors. The other reason I could see why people needed to select their WvW prior to reset is to use that time to start the sorts before reset triggers since this wouldn't be an on the fly number crunch but would need to be done before the match sorting starts. So more than likely background numbers have been/are being crunched now to do this round robin before reset happens. Players that missed the Guild selection deadline have in the past questioned why they couldn't just selected their Guild right before reset so wanted to cover that, though it was not part of your question. Might have been overstated but I hope that helps in some of your questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joku kaks kol kaks.7495 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) thanks a lot Anet we put community guild up week before reset and all had it set as WvW guild before Wednesday and still we got all over 15 servers for this beta I thought that it was fixed after second beta Edited January 12 by joku kaks kol kaks.7495 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasardur.1837 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) All bugged 😞 BiG guild (230 members) has been split across about 4+ different alliances... Edited January 12 by Tasardur.1837 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siffer.8524 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Please, could you shut things down and try again. Been assigned to a guild for ages for this, decided to refresh the sign-up earlier this week [some time between Monday and Wednesday] just in case. The sign-up has been saying pending for ever since and today I learn that I'm not assigned to any guild and has been put on a completely different server than my guild - actually I'm playing against them. Please, I know it's a BETA and things are often a bit messy during those, but this is beyond disappointing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veraltha.5276 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Alliances are bugged, everyone are separated, even though they are in the same WvW guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwy.9352 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Bugged What a mess Everybody is split So disappointing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty.4985 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Did anything even change with that second reset? everyone is still spread about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingDawn.5796 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) I just got placed in a wrong instance/matchup, in the middle of the border with no waypoints open, so I just gave up to go do something else, until we get a rollback to the old system or a fix. Edited January 12 by CrimsonOneThree.5682 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siffer.8524 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 My pending status changed for a short while.. then went back to pending... so yes, but no 🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodio.6134 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, Shifty.4985 said: Did anything even change with that second reset? everyone is still spread about in our case: no. still on the same teams, and still a bunch of people wrongly assigned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubenia.2039 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 already wrong server.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzgwzwei.9680 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 thx anet 4 this great World Restructuring Beta. everything runs as expected: nothing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alana.6372 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Restart never worked this really is crap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty.4985 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 It appears to be fixed? Relog and my assigned team changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 So reset: most of guild in the same 'team'. Forced relog 30min in: nothing changed. A couple of minutes ago: sudden relog. Now: most of guild in different team. Can we cancel this beta? And 'restructuring'? Now? Because servers actually work. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrom.1564 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 My whole guild is now on the same team besides me, and I selected it as beta guild weeks ago. GREAT :)))))))))))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medusa.3091 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) I have a gripe about this whole thing which I knew NOTHING about till just now... I don't read the forum as a rule , I don't visit the website, not really any reason to.. I just log on to play the game with my guild, most of whom are my actual family. Because of the stupid changes I have now been assigned to a different team from my guild. There was no option for me to pick a side and I was rather surprised when I was asked in guild chat did I pick a team. Pick a team? wtf? no warning... nothing on the screen you use to access wvw... there is a tab - which I didn't spot - I am not Mystic Meg - but nothing to direct you to it so no I didn't get a chance to pick where I wanted to be, if I had I wouldn't have known what to choose anyway before speaking to the guild. So now I have been randomly assigned to a crappy losing side and cannot play with my family in wvw. Thanks a bunch. Why are guilds being split up? why have I been just shoved onto a different side from my guildmates? And it cannot be changed? what is this BS?? This sucks. Seriously. Take your beta and shove it. Edited January 13 by medusa.3091 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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