Nerf Sorrow please

[Dadnir.5038]

35 minutes ago, Andy.5981 said:

As for complaints from latecomers? Sorry, we all have clocks on our screens and can work out how to use /wiki et. You arrive late, the boat has sailed without you.

Excuse me to have to say it but GW2 is a game, it's not work. You play a game to have fun, not to be on a tight schedule with strict goals to reach.

If the devs were to start to make the game the way you want I can garantee you that a large part of the playerbase would just quit.

 

[Pifil.5193]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The existence of a possibility of failure is not a problem. Without the possibility of losing winning is meaningless. Without the possibility of failure there is no point in trying to succeed.

I know that, I made the post you're responding to because some people on these forums respond to every post with a dismissive "eh, works fine for me" attitude but just because someone hasn't encountered a problem themselves or been in an instance that failed doesn't mean there isn't one or that instances can't fail (hell at the start I was in a few that were touch and go against the demon knight, which might seem difficult to believe). In general those kind of knee-jerk shut down attempts are irritating to me.

If you read up you'll see that what I actually said was: "I wish Stability worked against Sorrow's bouncy bouncy, spinny around BS but no, multiple stacks of Stab and I'm still trying not to lose my lunch." That's the only "nerf" I'd like to see.

Stability does nothing which is BS, IMO. According to the Wiki Stability means "Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared, or taunted." 

 

[azorean.1850]

thats not Sorrows problem man. if players have that mentality then it should fail everytime.

[Healix.5819]

9 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Just make it so that you 1) cannot damage anything with skyscale fireballs. and 2) introduce a Participation counter for taking part in each phase.

The skyscale just makes it more obvious what they were always doing - hit the boss once for credit and AFK. Removing the damage would only makes things worse, as now everyone else is doing 0 damage as they fly in.

The AFKers are tagging the middle, so they would have full participation. The simplest trick they could do for bosses is base participation on skill usage.

[GBEW.5947]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

if the devs were to start to make the game the way you want I can garantee you that a large part of the playerbase would just quit.

 

the game is already how he described though.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Excuse me to have to say it but GW2 is a game, it's not work. You play a game to have fun, not to be on a tight schedule with strict goals to reach.

If the devs were to start to make the game the way you want I can garantee you that a large part of the playerbase would just quit.

How lucky then that ow rifts (or even "private" convergencies) don't have specific timers you need to show up at. What's the issue here, people are entitled to receiving full convergence rewards despite not fully participating in the events because... what exactly?

[Razadune.9260]

People making up imaginary hordes of AFK people that are causing only Sorrow to fail is ridiculous.    

The problem is the boss' damage phases are overtuned and do too much to Zojja too fast in some scenarios. Sorrow does a lot more damage to Zojja a lot faster than Demon Knight does, plain and simple. If you don't have a group that's smashing his defiance bar the second it's up, every time it's up, Zojja is going to get plastered. If you don't have people running essences to Zojja whenever they can to keep her topped off, you're probably going to lose.  If you get behind at all and don't have everyone focusing on turning in orbs ASAP, you're going to lose.  

 If the positioning of the boss is bad, and Sorrow winds up right on top of Zojja, you're probably going to fail. If you get really unlucky and the boss winds up on top of a Skyscale launcher and makes it so that people are having trouble picking up or turning in orbs, you're going to fail. You don't have any real control over that in a public convergence, it's going to happen sometimes.   

 Things need to go right for Sorrow to be dealt with without a loss, and sometimes you're just going to have bad luck and lose anyway. None of those same issues are likely to end a Demon Knight run because he doesn't do as much damage to Zojja on the relevant phases. If Sorrow isn't overtuned, then Demon Knight is undertuned because there's a pretty big difference in difficulty between the two and it's not because of mechanics.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Reading all this, have people considered the crazy idea of just killing the boss? 

Because seeing what's going on ingame sometimes, I highly doubt that this idea has crossed their minds. 

I know that this is concept is seen as toxic but:

More dps - > Less mechanics - > Easier life. 

Can't kill zojja if he is dead. 

Also, the Boss drops essences every 10% Hp. 

Soooooo more dps = more healing and less dmg to zojja. 

AND! As zojja needs less healing, you can use the dmg increase from essences for even more dps. 😲

[Firebeard.1746]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:10 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Part of me thinks that instances full of AFKers and Skyscale campers should fail, because that type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded.  

If they siphoned them away from players actually trying, yes. Otherwise it sucks being punished for something entirely out of your control. 

[kiroho.4738]

On 1/14/2024 at 3:06 AM, Moi.5013 said:

Its pretty kitten annoying to spend 30 minutes in a convergence to have it fail on Sorrow because the instance is full of AFK-ers and lazy skcyscale riders that just shoot fireballs to keep participation.

Bosses/Events really should not be nerfed because of AFKers, leechers or people who refuse to join the fight.

This is no boss issue, this is a player issue.
Don't look at the bosses for a fix, look at the players.

[Andy.5981]

15 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Excuse me to have to say it but GW2 is a game, it's not work. You play a game to have fun, not to be on a tight schedule with strict goals to reach.

If the devs were to start to make the game the way you want I can garantee you that a large part of the playerbase would just quit.

 

Another Captain obvious reply. Yeah I know its a game and the aim is to have fun but here's something that might surprise you. Most events are on schedules in this game. They also spawn multiple times during the day. 

Can you also tell us how you manage to know that a large part of the playerbase would quit? I mean do you work for Anet and have the data?

I think you're just picking holes in things for the sake of it.

[Jedrik.3109]

Sorrow is my favorite thing in the open world. 

I know I'm in the minority but meta should be able to fail. My feeling is that participation requirements are too low. Nerfing every meta to the lowest common denominator has lead the community to a passive gameplay loop and reinforces this behavior.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

If you want something with real fail rate, go play CM/Raid. You can flex your ego to your heart's content there, everyone having their own weight to pull with tight DPS check and all. Surely wearing that "Voidwalker" title is much more satisfying and respectable than scorning this "lowest common denominator" like a sad gremlin.

It's meta event like any others and when I join these things, I expect a chill run to get my reward then get out. People not knowing how to CC are not my problem. People not knowing what "zojja" or "balls" means are not my problem. People deciding to be illiterate to mechanics are not my problem.

I don't even mind carrying or leeches, as long as it's a smooth run to get my reward and I can get on with my day without having to look up the next available timeslot. Not it being so ridiculous that I have to yell "CC"/"ZOJJA" at the top of my lungs even second and still being punished and wasted 30 mins because of someone else's incompetence.

Sorrow needs a rebalance.

 

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

If you want something with real fail rate, go play CM/Raid. You can flex your ego to your heart's content there, everyone having their own weight to pull with tight DPS check and all. Surely wearing that "Voidwalker" title is much more satisfying and respectable than scorning this "lowest common denominator" like a sad gremlin.

It's meta event like any others and when I join these things, I expect a chill run to get my reward then get out. People not knowing how to CC are not my problem. People not knowing what "zojja" or "balls" means are not my problem. People deciding to be illiterate to mechanics are not my problem.

I don't even mind carrying or leeches, as long as it's a smooth run to get my reward and I can get on with my day without having to look up the next available timeslot. Not it being so ridiculous that I have to yell "CC"/"ZOJJA" at the top of my lungs even second and still being punished and wasted 30 mins because of someone else's incompetence.

Sorrow needs a rebalance.

Didn't fail sorrow a single time, it doesn't need a rebalance, I'm glad it discourages afkers.

Edited January 17 by Sobx.1758

[Jedrik.3109]

Lowest common denominator was not a dig at any one group. It is just a statistical reference. As for the rest of the comment, I am a sadden gremlin that you think that I think so little of others. I have done my best to lead and train as much content as I can in a welcoming and low pressure way in all game modes. I will never have voidwalker due to deep personal reasons and my own lack of skill.

And I admit that do not know how the approach should go. But rewarding afk game play especially in open world is not healthy to an interactive game play experience. And maybe this is where my disconnect with your opinion is. And I do concede that past metas reinforce your view as where I enjoy the change in metas from the last 2 expansions.

Lastly, let me apologize that you found my comment offensive.  It was truly not my intention. 

@ZephidelGRS.9520

[Ele Lady.6103]

The thing I have noticed with Sorrow is that the damage it deals to Zojja is extremely inconsistent, borderline RNG. Sometimes Zojja doesn't seem to take any damage even when Sorrow is pointing directly at her, othertimes she dies so fast, regardless of failed CC or not.

Just today I had the best example of this. Sorrow was northeast, backed against the wall directly on top of Zojja and no way for anyone to be behind Sorrow's back, thus failed CC. Also it put the sucky hole on top of her, but somehow Zojja was full health when Sorrow phased.
After that it moved to southwest, on top of the temple. Ofc it is the furthest point from our last position and for reasons unknown, the worst possible spawn in general for Sorrow. Zojja always seems to take extreme damage here, regardless of succesful CC or Sorrow's relative position to Zojja. She just gets obliterated half the time, especially if the phasing happens at 50%. That means it takes longer for another set of essences to drop at 40%, when other phasepoints only need to remove 5% of its HP pool for orbs.

In my opinion, this scenario is the most common fail point. Failure at 50% can certainly happen on other platforms, too, but what happened just now in public was the worst possible case. Might be just me who thinks the raised/temple platform is somehow more dangerous for Zojja than the others, but this extreme variance in conditions out of player control just leads to extreme frustration and should be addressed. Add more essences or make Sorrow more "predictable" by behaviour or damage it does to Zojja.
 

[Lugh.8470]

I am gonna post it here, is something wrong with Sorrow ? it is 2nd time I failed it since convergence started (one today, one yesterday) it deals insane damage to zojja, so much so that even with all of us bringing over orbs didn't help, specially below 45% it just evaporates zojja and orbs are hardly?? dropped, i don't know, or is it that we were collectively bad twice in instance ? 

p.s I know orbs drop every 10% hp drop but what i am saying is that Sorrow kills zojja too fast in span of another 10% hp drop and yes we broke def bar everytime.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 hours ago, Lugh.8470 said:

I am gonna post it here, is something wrong with Sorrow ? it is 2nd time I failed it since convergence started (one today, one yesterday) it deals insane damage to zojja, so much so that even with all of us bringing over orbs didn't help, specially below 45% it just evaporates zojja and orbs are hardly?? dropped, i don't know, or is it that we were collectively bad twice in instance ? 

p.s I know orbs drop every 10% hp drop but what i am saying is that Sorrow kills zojja too fast in span of another 10% hp drop and yes we broke def bar everytime.

Lack of dps. It's that simple. 

How long does each phase of sorrow take? 

Any group with a few semi competent players should kill sorrow in like 5min.

Problem only occurs when the public group does so little dps, that they spend  10-15min wacking at the boss and it's not even dead. 

Which gives the boss plenty of time smacking zojja. 

Edited January 24 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Cyninja.2954]

10 hours ago, Lugh.8470 said:

p.s I know orbs drop every 10% hp drop but what i am saying is that Sorrow kills zojja too fast in span of another 10% hp drop and yes we broke def bar everytime.

The amount of essence dropped is fixed. It's every 10% and phase transitions (75, 50 and 25). Thus if the group dps is to low, the healing possible will not be enough to keep Zojja healed.

Compounding is that as players move to heal Zojja more frequently, the already bad group damage drops even more and mechanics are failed (cc primarily).

A group with sufficient damage will heal Zojja 1nce per phase (aka 25% of Sorrows hitpoints) and again while moving to the next spot (very high damage groups don't even heal inbetween, just on transitions). 

If the group you are in has to run every 10%, it's already tight, but doable. If damage is even worse than that, it turns into a fail very fast.

Edited January 24 by Cyninja.2954

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Just wanna vent that Sorrow failed 4 times in a row in a single day, today. Every public Convergence so far til now ended in failure.

Words cannot describe how frustrated I am. Either I'm just really unlucky or these "Sorrow never fail" people are the luckiest people alive. 
 

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

2 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Just wanna vent that Sorrow failed 4 times in a row in a single day, today. Every public Convergence so far til now ended in failure.

Words cannot describe how frustrated I am. Either I'm just really unlucky or these "Sorrow never fail" people are the luckiest people alive. 
 

At some point, you need to stop pointing fingers at pugs and start thinking about how to improve your own runs, because the only common element in YOUR runs, is you.
You can't control pugs, and most of them will never listen.

If you consistently fail,
Maybe you are the one doing no dmg, maybe you didn't bring enuf CC, or the CC didnt land on Sorrow from the pushback because your positioning was bad.
Maybe you aren't helping enough to rally the instance, call out "heal Zojja", call out islands that need more hands to attract the few ppl reading map chat (pugs who pay attention tend to also bring more dps).
Maybe you run full glass and stack Essences to do dmg, then get downed becuz you didn't dodge/bring survival tools, perhaps even full dead, therefore wasting all the Essence carried, none of which went into doing dmg or healing Zojja. (This is what most pugs do)
Or maybe, you are whining in map chat at people, which causes even more ppl to afk/literally leave from your doomposting.

You can choose to call people who rarely fail at Sorrow liars, whine in forums, and solve none of your immediate issues.
Or you can try to improve your runs by figuring ways out to do it better, at least to the point where it stops "failing every time".

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

1 hour ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

At some point, you need to stop pointing fingers at pugs and start thinking about how to improve your own runs, because the only common element in YOUR runs, is you.
You can't control pugs, and most of them will never listen.

If you consistently fail,
Maybe you are the one doing no dmg, maybe you didn't bring enuf CC, or the CC didnt land on Sorrow from the pushback because your positioning was bad.
Maybe you aren't helping enough to rally the instance, call out "heal Zojja", call out islands that need more hands to attract the few ppl reading map chat (pugs who pay attention tend to also bring more dps).
Maybe you run full glass and stack Essences to do dmg, then get downed becuz you didn't dodge/bring survival tools, perhaps even full dead, therefore wasting all the Essence carried, none of which went into doing dmg or healing Zojja. (This is what most pugs do)
Or maybe, you are whining in map chat at people, which causes even more ppl to afk/literally leave from your doomposting.

You can choose to call people who rarely fail at Sorrow liars, whine in forums, and solve none of your immediate issues.
Or you can try to improve your runs by figuring ways out to do it better, at least to the point where it stops "failing every time".

You do realize a person cannot carry a whole instance right? Even if you have all of that right, and I do before you think I'm one of your typical whiners again, what can you possibly do after that point beside praying that people can read chat to guarantee that it's not gonna be a fail? I would even gladly run all the balls to make sure it's not failing, if Anet did not limit how many balls showing up for each player to get. I'd literally do anything if there's even a hint of it, as long as it's something within my control to influence the success rate for myself.

But I simply can't. There's nothing more I can do beyond the share that Anet assigned to me. I already tried spamming "bring CC" whenever I got into an instance. I already tried yelling CC and Zojja. Not even in caps, no matter how annoyed I was. Yes there were also comms in all of those 4 instances I've been in who were explaining things. But to no avail, somehow that CC bar was still surprisingly up despite having 50 people in the map, which made balls dropped slower, and consequently no healing and then failing.

What more could I possibly do from then to "improve my runs"? Frankly just tell people they're not meant to be there and go educate themselves what CC is? And how is that going to guarantee the next instance I have to deal with to be any better? 

 

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

5 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

You do realize a person cannot carry a whole instance right?

I simply can't. There's nothing more I can do beyond the share that Anet assigned to me. I already tried spamming "bring CC" whenever I got into an instance. I already tried yelling CC and Zojja. Not even in caps, no matter how annoyed I was. Yes there were also comms in all of those 4 instances I've been in who were explaining things. But to no avail, somehow that CC bar was still surprisingly up despite having 50 people in the map, which made balls dropped slower, and consequently no healing and then failing.

What more could I possibly do from then to "improve my runs"?

Unfortunately, the mass majority of pugs also think they do "just fine", and that they "bring enuf", if you don't give us a rough idea of what you normally bring, we have to assume you can do better if you tried harder.

Despite different opinions that may be stated, my personal opinion is that one shud bring minimum of 1200 Break bar dmg.
Some not-often thought about mechanic is how the Kryptis Essences reduce max HP, which means any flat healing can be doubly effective on a person with 50 stacks.
Kryptis Essence also increases Boon Duration, making Boon Dps extremely effective at boosting at least 4 other people.

If you are still absolutely sure you've done literally every method under the sun to increase the performance of yourself and everyone around you, but still cannot find success,
then its time to start thinking about external methods, like Convergence after 0-4 hrs of reset, or biting the bullet and start a Private Instance at the equivalent cost of 5g, get a Commander Tag if you haven't already.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

18 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Just wanna vent that Sorrow failed 4 times in a row in a single day, today. Every public Convergence so far til now ended in failure.

Words cannot describe how frustrated I am. Either I'm just really unlucky or these "Sorrow never fail" people are the luckiest people alive. 
 

Or, option 3, you're just exaggerating with how often Sorrow fails. I haven't done much data analysis, but when there are let's say 10-20 measurements each withing 10 microns and then there's one that is off by 70 microns we don't really take that one in and make sure that measurement makes sense.
Similiarly to here, you have people talking about how Sorrow never fails anymore, some people talk about failing occasionally. Your constantly failing Convergences is the one that is largely unbeliveable.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Or, option 3, you're just exaggerating with how often Sorrow fails. I haven't done much data analysis, but when there are let's say 10-20 measurements each withing 10 microns and then there's one that is off by 70 microns we don't really take that one in and make sure that measurement makes sense.
Similiarly to here, you have people talking about how Sorrow never fails anymore, some people talk about failing occasionally. Your constantly failing Convergences is the one that is largely unbeliveable.

It seems both you and @MercurialKuroSludge.8974 misunderstood the "every public Convergence so far til now ended in failure" sentence in my original post. I meant every public Convergence of that day when I posted, not every public instance in general. Yes failing 4 times in a row in a single day got me questioning how could anyone claim with a straight face they haven't seen a singled failed Sorrow at all. Unless they play just once a week, and only with their private buddies instead of public events. 

As for today if anyone cares, the instance I was in was almost a fail. Zojja was 1-2% left, Sorrow more than 50% before we managed to phase it. The next 2 phases were just as tight, but we managed to pull through. Still, being that hopelessly close certainly didn't make it a pleasant experience for anyone.

There's just something obviously off about Sorrow compared to Demon Knight. And we're more than rational enough about it than baseless whining.