High level mounts and players make events for non-mount players in zones impossible

[Teknomancer.4895]

Fine. And your ideas/suggestions are...?

No?

Thought so.

Not in the mood for FPvP tonight.

[kharmin.7683]

21 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Fine. And your ideas/suggestions are...?

No?

Thought so.

Not in the mood for FPvP tonight.

Sorry, not sure to whom this was directed.  If it were me, then my answer is that I have no ideas/suggestions because I don't find the premise of the thread to be valid.  I don't believe it is impossible for players (new and vets) to not be able to complete content or events.  I see it frequently since I tend to hang out in these zones quite a bit.  Are there times when players with mounts make events difficult?  Sure, but I don't agree with "impossible". 

[kiroho.4738]

On 1/16/2024 at 11:22 PM, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Now, obviously we have the wizards fault and that daily has been dodo'ed. But the situation hasn't changed.

When it comes to dailies everything has changed with Wizards Vault.
We don't have said "do x Events on map y" anymore.
These dailies were changed to do an even on a certain region. Like Ascalon, Maguuma Jungle or Kryta. You are not forced to do events on starter/low level maps. You can actively decide between 5 or more maps.
Plus, when you have an expansion, the expansion areas are included as well, which all are lvl 80 maps.

It's the same for "kill x enemies" dailies.

And as for weeklies, "do 10 events" are not restricted to any map or region at all.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

17 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This also defeats the purpose of giving out the 'loaner' raptor.

"Hey, welcome to GW2! Here's your Raptor trial you can have for 10 hours on your character to make travelling faster, but you won't be able to use it on the map you're most likely going to spend atleast half of that time, because it's a starter zone! Have fun!"

[Danikat.8537]

Presumably if down-scaling was rebalanced to be more effective as several people suggested earlier in this thread that would also affect mount skills. With the added bonus that it would reduce damage by high level players but leave low level players unaffected.

It wouldn't make mounts slower, but as I said I don't think that's as much of a problem because in practice it's just as likely to mean someone misses an event starting up because they ran off too quickly.

Some individual events would probably benefit from adjustments as well. Two I've encountered recently (because I've been in Wayfarer Foothills) are:
1) Collecting ice blocks for Ulfred - the number required goes up when there's more players in the area, but the number of ice elementals and the speed they spawn stays the same. They're weak enough that even an appropriately levelled character (level 4) can kill them in a few hits which means it's hard for multiple players to get drops from the same one, and then everyone is left waiting around for them to respawn.
2) Collecting armor scraps for Rani - this one has the opposite problem. If it starts up just before/during the Svanir Sharman world boss the number of armor scraps required scales up for the number of players doing that event, then never goes back down, even after they leave the area, making it extremely time consuming to complete and meaning the following event probably won't spawn on that map. (When I saw this happen earlier this week we got to 30 scraps collected, which almost 1/2 filled the bar, so we'd have needed about 60 or 70 to complete it, but most people did one circuit around the area, turned in what they had (about 7-10) and then gave up because it was taking too long.

There's many other events with similar problems, those are just the ones I've seen most recently. I suspect that would be much more time consuming than adjusting down-scaling because each event would need individual changes, but I think it'd be worth doing.

[Dezzie.5903]

This has been an issue since mounts were introduced. I've never quite gotten why some players go so "try hard" on beginner-zone events. All you need to do to get credit is tap one MOb. There's no need to hit every cooldown to try and solo MOb groups the millisecond they spawn. Be considerate. Let other players have their turn.

[Kiki.9450]

32 minutes ago, Dezzie.5903 said:

This has been an issue since mounts were introduced. I've never quite gotten why some players go so "try hard" on beginner-zone events. All you need to do to get credit is tap one MOb. There's no need to hit every cooldown to try and solo MOb groups the millisecond they spawn. Be considerate. Let other players have their turn.

"But if I do that how will all the other people see how good a player I am? :(" That, or literally zero self-awareness.

[Danikat.8537]

7 minutes ago, Dezzie.5903 said:

This has been an issue since mounts were introduced. I've never quite gotten why some players go so "try hard" on beginner-zone events. All you need to do to get credit is tap one MOb. There's no need to hit every cooldown to try and solo MOb groups the millisecond they spawn. Be considerate. Let other players have their turn.

I don't understand it either. Sometimes I think they're trying to complete the event as quickly as possible so they get their progress and can move on to whatever they actually want to do with their time but then people do it with timed events and others where killing things faster doesn't actually help, so I'm not sure. I suspect some people don't actually know what their skills do, so they rely on spamming all the buttons and don't know which ones to use selectively. Also if they know they're not a great player they might assume they can't do enough damage to be a problem to anyone else.

I've definitely seen other problems caused by not knowing what their skills do. Last Halloween I met a level 80 mesmer with several mastery points who had no idea mesmer greatsword 5 does knockback and instead assumed since GW2 combat encourages movement almost all enemies will "jump" backwards at random points during the fight, it just happens all the time and there's nothing players can do about it. (You can imagine how popular they were in a Lab farming squad.) We got talking and apparently they'd stopped reading skill descriptions early on because they didn't understand them and just activated skills as soon as they came off cooldown and hoped for the best.

Having said that sometimes it can be surprisingly difficult to avoid killing things before other players have a chance to tag them. Even when you're at the recommended level a lot of low level enemies can be killed in a couple of hits so it can be very easy to wipe them out, especially with a ranged weapon. But the strangest problem I've noticed is new players will sometimes mimic higher level players (or even lower level characters using customised skins and dyes, indicating they're not a new account) so if someone does slow down or stop attacking to allow newer players around them to tag enemies those players will also stop attacking. I haven't found a good solution to that yet, the few times I've tried to explain what I'm doing it's either been ignored, or once I was accused of leeching and once got a whisper saying I'd been reported for showing off. (Nothing came of it obviously, I don't even know if they actually reported me, but they clearly weren't happy.)

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Kiki.9450 said:

"But if I do that how will all the other people see how good a player I am? :(" That, or literally zero self-awareness.

I agree.  I think it players wanting to show off.

[Tren.5120]

I think this is a big issue in Heart of Thorns, particularly Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths.

It's really not just the starting areas.  It kind of throws everything out of balance.  People play GW2 much like a single player game, so it's not like they are waiting for people to get there before they start.  They just fly in and instantly start killing the MOB.

[Lucy.3728]

On 1/16/2024 at 11:04 PM, ZenonSeth.5739 said:

But getting to events in time before they are wiped by a bunch of glow in the dark sparkly rainbow dragon high level players is pretty much impossible.

It's the power creep ppl complain about.

And the downscaling system doesn't affect everything (like it ignores traits, so I heard).

On 1/16/2024 at 11:04 PM, ZenonSeth.5739 said:

Even with a raptor, that champ gets wiped before I can reach it

If you choose closest waypoint and raptor away from there you should be able to reach it in time (if there were no campers at that point). Unless your raptor is not skilled (no wide jump). Then you're doomed until you play PoF and skill your mount or Anet changes something. First one is in your hands.

[Danikat.8537]

7 hours ago, Lucy.3728 said:

It's the power creep ppl complain about.

And the downscaling system doesn't affect everything (like it ignores traits, so I heard).

Downscaling only affects your attributes and I think it affects each source individually - so if you've got a full set of equipment and runes and you're downscaled to level 5 it will reduce the bonuses from each item but won't bring it down to what a real level 5 character (who wouldn't have shoulder or head armour and wouldn't have runes) would have.

Likewise it won't remove the effects of traits, sigils, relics and other things which low level characters won't have, which can add additional sources of damage.

I'm not sure what it would take for Anet to make it more effective without causing problems for players. I don't think it would be a good idea for it to disable traits for example, but maybe they could change the way the stat reduction is calculated so having lots of different sources doesn't counter-act the scaling. Or even add a simple damage reduction as well as reducing attributes.

[Lucy.3728]

17 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I'm not sure what it would take for Anet to make it more effective without causing problems for players. I don't think it would be a good idea for it to disable traits for example,

I think an easy way is to disable the traits on starter maps, for every player 20 levels above that map's max level..
Enable the first set of traits on the next level of maps and so on.
It disrupts build synergy and reduces damage from rotations. I'm not sure how noticeable it is for damage reduction.

I see the power creep from newly released stuff as the main problem.

Edited January 21 by Lucy.3728

[Seven.7356]

Does that even work? Every time I shoot fireballs at stuff it never dies, the health just goes back up and I even have the siege damage mastery. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Lucy.3728 said:

I think an easy way is to disable the traits on starter maps, for every player 20 levels above that map's max level..
Enable the first set of traits on the next level of maps and so on.
It disrupts build synergy and reduces damage from rotations. I'm not sure how noticeable it is for damage reduction.

I see the power creep from newly released stuff as the main problem.

I think that this would be a horrible idea.  This would essentially wipe out anything other than core builds in central Tyria.  I don't see that being in Anet's best interests.

Edited January 21 by kharmin.7683

[Albadaran.1283]

I recognize the problem of the opp. It's also a problem for some players who own all mounts: trains are so fast that you loose track if you don't react fast enough, or when you don't know the map good enough. For me, as owner of all mounts there would be a simple solution: instead of only getting the system message about a quest or event nearby without showing the event on the map becaust you are not close enough, show ALL events on the map so you can tp to the nearest waypoint in time. 

I think this would also help the opp and a lot of players who don't own all mounts.

[Lucy.3728]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I think that this would be a horrible idea.  This would essentially wipe out anything other than core builds in central Tyria.  I don't see that being in Anet's best interests.

I don't see how this wipes out anything, but reduces dmg a bit from overpowered players on lowie maps.

Also how is there a difference whether you have an empty spec trait or an empty core trait?

Every lvl 80 veteran player will still do way too much dmg from power creep.

Level 1-15 maps: https://i.postimg.cc/h48chLyp/gw056.jpg

Level: 15-25 maps: https://i.postimg.cc/J0QLg8D9/gw142.jpg

Level 25-40 maps: https://i.postimg.cc/cCWWXCHR/gw221.jpg

higher maps have everything unlocked.

And you'll be still better off than the real newbie who struggles his way to better equipment and mobility and traits (real newbies dont even have specs yet).

Edited January 21 by Lucy.3728

[Tiviana.2650]

I dont know a fix for this outside of only allowing land mounts in low zones, or turning off the mounts attacks in low zones /shrug

[Bladestrom.6425]

28 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

I dont know a fix for this outside of only allowing land mounts in low zones, or turning off the mounts attacks in low zones /shrug

This would help ^^ sometimes the most obvious answer is the best answer.

[enigmatic.3576]

People are not missing out on events because of mounts.  They're missing out because of the power creep that Anet adds with every single expansion and because most players tend to sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting for someone to ping an event instead of finding them themselves.  There are a ton of events available on those starter maps.  I remember doing the Queensdale champ train for the monthly while doing events between champs.  If you choose to wait for events to be pinged for you, it's your own fault if they get completed before you get there.  Events don't scale quickly enough to make up for a flood of players that inevitably flock to them when pinged.

[bq pd.2148]

the topic is almost always tied to events or dailies when it was still a thing, where players are given the task to do X amount of events in lower level zones. just like this one here with the return to season 1 event.  specifically for those events it would be nice if the downtime of the events on those maps was reduced, so they can handle the influx of players with that singular goal. or come up with different tasks.

beyond that a high level player can be troublesome for lower leveled players in those areas while they are doing map completions, that is to a large part because there are hearts out there that can barely (if even) sustain a single player. if you have to wait for respawns for your heart, while you are all alone at the area, that is a problem. at some hearts other people are a welcome sight as they can spawn targets (e.g. the grubs at monastery in queensdale) but for many hearts other players in the area will slow you down regardless of their level.

personally i would like to see shared participation for groups doing hearts together (same area, not across the entire map), instead of fighting over every bit of progress.

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:38 PM, enigmatic.3576 said:

People are not missing out on events because of mounts.  They're missing out because of the power creep that Anet adds with every single expansion and because most players tend to sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting for someone to ping an event instead of finding them themselves.  There are a ton of events available on those starter maps.  I remember doing the Queensdale champ train for the monthly while doing events between champs.  If you choose to wait for events to be pinged for you, it's your own fault if they get completed before you get there.  Events don't scale quickly enough to make up for a flood of players that inevitably flock to them when pinged.

Its actually a combination of power creep, player skill and mounts, probably in that order.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 1/21/2024 at 2:08 PM, Lucy.3728 said:

I don't see how this wipes out anything, but reduces dmg a bit from overpowered players on lowie maps.

Also how is there a difference whether you have an empty spec trait or an empty core trait?

If you have a disabled espec trait, you are no longer that espec, but a core class instead. It's not just a case of your dps going down, but your whole playstyle may change. Not to mention if you were using espec-specific skills,those would get disabled as well. And if you do not have the weapon mastery from SotO, your weapon would stop working too.

That's not too good, considering that almost noone beyond f2p players runs core classes after getting to level 80.

[Danikat.8537]

17 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you have a disabled espec trait, you are no longer that espec, but a core class instead. It's not just a case of your dps going down, but your whole playstyle may change. Not to mention if you were using espec-specific skills,those would get disabled as well. And if you do not have the weapon mastery from SotO, your weapon would stop working too.

That's not too good, considering that almost noone beyond f2p players runs core classes after getting to level 80.

Exactly. For example on my weaver I use the elite spec's healing skill, 2 utilities and the elite, and the profession mechanic changes the weapon skills you have available (in addition to having an extra weapon) so if the elite spec was disabled 2/3 of my skill bar would be locked or changed. Even if the locked skills are automatically replaced with core skills that would be extremely confusing, especially as a dynamic adjustment which can switch itself on or off as I move around the world.

The need to replace removed skills with something else also means it's likely to be a much more complicated system for Anet to create than changing the calculations used by the existing scaling system to reduce damage.

[Lucy.3728]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you have a disabled espec trait, you are no longer that espec, but a core class instead. It's not just a case of your dps going down, but your whole playstyle may change. Not to mention if you were using espec-specific skills,those would get disabled as well. And if you do not have the weapon mastery from SotO, your weapon would stop working too.

That's not too good, considering that almost noone beyond f2p players runs core classes after getting to level 80.

Nothing of that has to do with my suggestion.

My screenshots even show a specced player.

And the weapon master is a story unlock and doesn't have anything to do with traits. Even with zero traits you can use specced weapons, can't you?

Edited January 23 by Lucy.3728