Dear Commanders and Lieutenants

[chripsy.1027]

Dear Commanders and Lieutenants , will you please stop blindly putting players in parties with support just because they are a meta class and actually look at who is doing damage on Arc. Yes, even if that means prioritising non-meta classes for support (gasp).

[Chaba.5410]

Hi DPS.

 

Edited January 22 by Chaba.5410

[chripsy.1027]

I have no idea why you are trying to devalue what I wrote. There are non-meta classes in the squad doing up to 5 times more damage than some of the meta classes who have been given support, but they die frequently because no stab/heals. Some commanders and lieutenants refuse to give support to non-meta classes for some reason. Surely you will agree the highest dps (meta or non-meta) should be given priority so, you know, the squad has more chance of winning the fight?....

[Chaba.5410]

13 minutes ago, chripsy.1027 said:

Surely you will agree the highest dps (meta or non-meta) should be given priority so, you know, the squad has more chance of winning the fight?....

How exactly is this DPS being measured?  You know you can "cheat" a bit on stats, right?  DPS isn't the only important stat.  Like necros aren't going to be beating everyone in DPS all the time since they are also there for boon strips and corrupts.

Also, this is a context-less post.  No idea what meta/non-meta you're talking about.  And no one can read the mind of the commander who was leading that prompted this post in the first place.

Edited January 22 by Chaba.5410

[chripsy.1027]

You know this is the WvW section of the forum, right?

[Chaba.5410]

1 minute ago, chripsy.1027 said:

You know this is the WvW section of the forum, right?

Yes.

[bq pd.2148]

on a public tag there can easily be a large skill gap in any of the roles.
now you can group the best damage dealers with the best supports and you will much quicker lose half the squad in the next fight, but numbers matter so it can be beneficial to provide the better support to less experienced damage dealers and have the ones that wont go splat instantly be supported by the less experienced supporters.

now if you have too few support players for the amount of damage dealers, it would be beneficial if someone logged to support. then the larger the squad the more i would prefer the good players on support unless you are severly lacking damage. asking for the worse damage dealer to get no support at all is just asking for them to feed kills or log off.

[Chaba.5410]

14 minutes ago, bq pd.2148 said:

for the worse damage dealer to get no support at all is just asking for them to feed kills or log off.

In my squads, sometimes I put the better players in a party without much support for precisely this reason.  I trust the better players to be able to handle it, especially when they show up on a class that has a lot of self-support.

[chripsy.1027]

@bq pd.2148 

So we should prioritise all of the low damage players for support and leave the highest to fend for themselves, die a lot, and end up logging off.... Sounds great.

The main point of my post is that some commanders/lieutenants refuse to give support to non-meta classes, even if they are at the top of Arc, which just doesn't make sense.

[Chaba.5410]

21 minutes ago, chripsy.1027 said:

@bq pd.2148 

So we should prioritise all of the low damage players for support and leave the highest to fend for themselves, die a lot, and end up logging off.... Sounds great.

The main point of my post is that some commanders/lieutenants refuse to give support to non-meta classes, even if they are at the top of Arc, which just doesn't make sense.

Tag up and try it out.

[Chichimec.9364]

19 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Tag up and try it out.

Chaba is making an excellent point here. You can't control how others play the game. If you don't like what some commanders are doing, you only have three realistic choices - tag up yourself, look for a commander who's playstyle suits you, or quit WvW. Personally, I'm too old, slow, and tired to tag up myself and I enjoy WvW so I don't want to quit it. That meant going with the middle option myself - finding a commander/guild that I feel comfortable with. These days I'm really happy with my WvW guild. They suit me well. In the past though, there were commanders I liked that I ran with when they were available and there were tags I actively disliked and stopped running with entirely. I didn't try to change the behavior of those commanders. I just left and moved on to find tags I liked better.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

The problem with most servers is everyone wants to play DPS and they complain on map chat about boon blobs and why they are not winning fights. Even some commanders would often run some DPS specs themselves with very limited access to self-stab and sustain and are just relying on range damage and clouding. 

IF you think your team is getting ran over, then have the initiative to run support yourself. 

Edited January 22 by PrinceValentine.9320

[chripsy.1027]

When I'm Lieutenant, I look at who is bringing the most value to the squad and adjust parties accordingly. If I see a Catalyst doing 5 times more damage than a Berserker, I'll give that Catalyst a party with support and replace the Berserker. I just find it odd that some commanders/lieutenants will only give priority to meta classes regardless.

[CafPow.1542]

16 minutes ago, chripsy.1027 said:

I just find it odd that some commanders/lieutenants will only give priority to meta classes regardless.

If i command, i do only blobclouds.

sometimes i volunteer as lieutenant tho cause… you have to start somewhere you know. I do a lot of mistakes and i have no arc dps nor i intend to install it.

so this sounds like me. I ask people what they are but nobody says a thing so i just place people how i want.

FB are supports, if a FB plays something else in a zerg he has to reconsider his lifechoices and go DH. But from a DH i still expect to bring some stab / aegis.

druids and tempests n stuff like that are supposed to heal, period. I ask whos support and if nobody answers than i can only assume.

 

on the other hand, if I’m in a group with no stability with my necro for example, i play accordingly. Lieutenant and Conmander are not responsible for my positioning.

[bq pd.2148]

2 hours ago, chripsy.1027 said:

@bq pd.2148 

So we should prioritise all of the low damage players for support and leave the highest to fend for themselves, die a lot, and end up logging off.... Sounds great.

sure if we skip over the part where i said these awesome players should swap to support instead of complaining. or would you want that terrible damage dealer to be your support and have the entire group die because they don't know when to use their abilities?

[Dawdler.8521]

There is anything other than just support in the meta boonball?

[kash.9213]

If you're saying "blindly", then it sounds like they don't have a lot of time at the moment. They might shift people around while on the road. Sometimes you need to get moving for the sake of moving. Too much prep time can lose people or drive. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

While I agree that strong dps should be put with the best parties, are you sure that's what's happening? There are also other priorities, like being in comms. Also if it's a guild, they will naturally favor their own guildies because they may be training them.

I have to admit it's a little hard to believe you could be in their comms as a regular and do 5x the damage without padding while not geteting noticed on a regular basis. I suppose they could just not be running a parser if it's a more casual guild. Care to share some logs or charts /w damage distribution?

I mean maybe the squads I run with are different but it's not hard to get a good party. But it is definitely harder with more cliquish groups, or maybe your server just has too many players to keep track of so the lieuteants are swamped.

Also there are a lot of bad supports out there, and putting you in a party with them may actually be a negative because you start expecting boons that are not there, like bozo hybrid  fbs that don't even run SYG, etc.

Edited January 22 by ArchonWing.9480

[Riba.3271]

You're right.

But as commander I already have to manage map promotion, voice promotion, scout reports, strategy, player assignment, siege placement, communication, build promotion, fight analysis, food timers etc. So it isn't that simple to start arc nerding and digging up certain names from squad list. I also want to play the game.

Of course if there was decent balance and I had incentive to manage sizeable guild with players I can trust, then I could somewhat distribute the tasks. All I can say is that the least the followers can do is bring enough firebrands and supports that we can play the game. You're playing DPS when there arent enough firebrands for everyone, so you're part of the problem.

Edited January 22 by Riba.3271

[Twilightzone.7452]

To be fair it does not matter if you do more dps and not on a meta class. You are all the same pips in my eyes.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Riba.3271 said:

So it isn't that simple to start arc nerding and digging up certain names from squad list. I also want to play the game.

Exactly. And DPS charts in arc don't always tell the whole story. Along with what CafPow wrote, players don't necessarily want to spend time trying to figure out what someone's build is especially if met with silence. Sometimes people just want to play too and not micromanage.

[Mimizu.7340]

Deer Commander?

[Leger.3724]

9 hours ago, chripsy.1027 said:

You know this is the WvW section of the forum, right?

Yes, do you know what garbage time damage is? 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

15 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

How exactly is this DPS being measured? 

ArcDPS

15 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You know you can "cheat" a bit on stats, right?  DPS isn't the only important stat.

Arc measures more than just DPS--it measures boon uptime, heals, etc. etc.  Running without it, is like blind leading blind.  

Clearly OP is talking only about groups that run arc (sane ones) and the common behavior to neglect non-meta classes even if the players on the meta classes are terrible.  Sure, you can play how you want, but seen enough 'blobs' get rolled by a guild half the size because the guild half the size knows how to use metrics.  

10 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

But as commander I already have to manage map promotion, voice promotion, scout reports, strategy, player assignment, siege placement, communication, build promotion, fight analysis, food timers etc. So it isn't that simple to start arc nerding and digging up certain names from squad list. I also want to play the game.

Fight analysis to me would imply using arc metrics to see who is doing what.  WvW isn't that big, you will get same people typically running same time--might be more chaotic now with the world restructuring thing, I'd give you that.  

[Riba.3271]

42 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Fight analysis to me would imply using arc metrics to see who is doing what.  WvW isn't that big, you will get same people typically running same time--might be more chaotic now with the world restructuring thing, I'd give you that.  

So you're saying it is impossible to tell the reason why you lost without ArcDPS. Well I guess there are people who play WvW without having any clue how WvW works.