Legendary Relics are Coming Soon

[yann.1946]

14 hours ago, Minna.7895 said:

Assuming you are talking about the elite weapons that need a collection and not the legendary aurenes (gen3)- both of your examples have absolutely nothing to do with legendary gear and are absolutely fine and not what myself or anyone else in this thread is talking about.

I brought them up as examples of why they might put requirements, even when the reqs is content that is good. The fact that my examples are not about legendaries is irrelevant to the question I was addressing.

14 hours ago, Minna.7895 said:

 

As for the turtle and the strike...remember the outrage that made them change it to not needing the strike anymore?

Sure, and the shitshow that was the meta. But they all had the same motivation from a game development standpoint.

I only responded to the question why they would add requirements if the content was good. Nothing less, nothing more.

Note btw, that most complains about requirements for the turtle where mostly about difficulty and accessibility, not qualify.

In contrast to the skyscale, where people complained about the badness of the collections themselves.

[yann.1946]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It has already been established that Anet has long ago wanted to get away from original "done once, have forever" system to a vertical gear grind one. Yes, this sure is another such attempt. Forgive me for not looking at it too kindly though, as it is a complete overturn of one of the very things that brought me to this game in the first place.

Gear grind is just a cheap, poor quality replacement for actual content, nothing more. Moving to that model is a step down, not up.

I really need an explanation how anet wanted to go to a vertical progression game. 

Because the one case where they done that (ascended) got such a huge backlash that they didn't do anything of the sort after.

Or do you see the jadebot as vertical progression since it gives stats!

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

I can't believe there are some people in this thread that still don't get it.

They've taken the 6 rune bonus, where the legendary ALWAYS gave us access to new options as soon as they were available, and put it on a new legendary that's NOT going to give us access to new options as soon as they are available. It's setting a precedent that they can take away the legendary access that we currently have at any time, if they choose to. It's setting a further precedent that any future legendaries they may introduce are going to work the same way.

This isn't how legendaries have worked. And it's a change that it's clear a significant portion of the player base do NOT want. We have 3 choices, basically; we can push back against this and get ANET to change direction (again), that's option 1. We can simply leave the game without saying a thing, option 2. Or option 3, we can carry on playing and silently accept the change in direction that ANET have decided to impose. The move away from the "sanctity" of legendaries to be permanent complete items, regardless of how long you step away from the game for, is not one that I find acceptable, personally.

I've taken breaks from this game before, knowing that I can come back to a host of relevant content that I can jump into straight away. Knowing that my legendary armoury will allow me to do that without issue. Suddenly ANET are starting to tell me that if I walk away I'm going to come back to a host of unlocks I need to negotiate. They're telling me I can't walk away for a while without implications. That's not an attitude I want to encourage.

So I'm going to continue to shout about this until they change tack. And if they don't, I'll be leaving permanently. And no, you can't have my stuff.

[kiroho.4738]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Locking gear progression behind a content is way, way more than just offering rewards for it. And dangerously close to the "being forced" line.

Or you know, don't exaggerate.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

I really need an explanation how anet wanted to go to a vertical progression game. 

Because the one case where they done that (ascended) got such a huge backlash that they didn't do anything of the sort after.

Or do you see the jadebot as vertical progression since it gives stats!

The ascended debacle was the first time they tried to attack the original paradigm - and it was barely 3 months into the game. At that time they were mentioning things like "continuing item progression on a shallow curve", and definitely intending to raise a level cap in the future.

Yes, the backlash was massive, and that caused them to take a step back and be silent about those desires for quite a long time. Until more recently, that is, when they decided that apparently enough time has passed that it's now safe to test the waters once again (this time with smaller and less noticeable attempts).

So, we've got jade bots. Minimal stats bonus, and only to vitality, so easy to overlook, but still the first time since forever when new gear slot with stats has been added. Then there was the issue with two new stat sets being heavily restricted in acquisition methods, even though in 2019 (so, only a year before) they introduced a streamlined system that was supposed to allow all stat select gear to automatically have access to stats based on the expansions you have. Again, while annoying for those that did not have legendaries, was mostly a minor thing. Although, notice, that it was a bit more commented on than the jade bot stats.

Then came SotO with relics. A new gear type that does not introduce anything new, but instead moves to a new slot part of the functionality previously covered by runes. Then came the realization that it is actually an indirect attack on Legendary gear being "future proofed". And that they apparently had no initial plan to make legendary relic at all. Then there was the whole case of "partial compensation", which, again, was just trying to downplay the attack on Legendary status.

And here comes the latest news. While compensation will now be full, they are now not even trying to hide that they do not like the old "gear stability" approach and would prefer to push us into gear (re)acquisition gameplay every expansion and patch. And that they look at the Legendary "futire proof" QoL (and overall at the gear stability idea) as shackles they'd rather be rid of, instead of being proud of it as they once were.

And the cake is taken by their "explanation" about how, in 2019, them "allowing" legendary gear to automatically get access to new stats from new expansions was somehow an exception they made then, against all common sense, just to hold to old promises. As if that "exception" wasn't the exact point of that whole patch in the first place.

It clearly looks as if until at least that patch of 2019 they stayed the course set by the ascended backlash, but that in the following year leading to the release of EoD something changed. Why is that so is anyone's guess (meybe it's NCSoft influence, maybe the people that supported the old paradigm are now gone from Anet, or something else completely) but the change did happen, and Anet is once again is set to retread the path they once attempted with ascended. Even if, wary of that original backlash, they are now moving more slowly and cautiously, their end goal seems to be the exact same.

Edited January 31 by Astralporing.1957

[Omega.6801]

3 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I can't believe there are some people in this thread that still don't get it.

They've taken the 6 rune bonus, where the legendary ALWAYS gave us access to new options as soon as they were available, and put it on a new legendary that's NOT going to give us access to new options as soon as they are available. It's setting a precedent that they can take away the legendary access that we currently have at any time, if they choose to. It's setting a further precedent that any future legendaries they may introduce are going to work the same way.

This isn't how legendaries have worked. And it's a change that it's clear a significant portion of the player base do NOT want. We have 3 choices, basically; we can push back against this and get ANET to change direction (again), that's option 1. We can simply leave the game without saying a thing, option 2. Or option 3, we can carry on playing and silently accept the change in direction that ANET have decided to impose. The move away from the "sanctity" of legendaries to be permanent complete items, regardless of how long you step away from the game for, is not one that I find acceptable, personally.

I've taken breaks from this game before, knowing that I can come back to a host of relevant content that I can jump into straight away. Knowing that my legendary armoury will allow me to do that without issue. Suddenly ANET are starting to tell me that if I walk away I'm going to come back to a host of unlocks I need to negotiate. They're telling me I can't walk away for a while without implications. That's not an attitude I want to encourage.

So I'm going to continue to shout about this until they change tack. And if they don't, I'll be leaving permanently. And no, you can't have my stuff.

People don't want to understand. That's all.

[yann.1946]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The ascended debacle was the first time they tried to attack the original paradigm - and it was barely 3 months into the game. At that time they were mentioning things like "continuing item progression on a shallow curve", and definitely intending to raise a level cap in the future.

This indeed was a huge mistake on there part, and I'm glad it got the backlash it has gotten.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, the backlash was massive, and that caused them to take a step back and be silent about those desires for quite a long time. Until more recently, that is, when they decided that apparently enough time has passed that it's now safe to test the waters once again (this time with smaller and less noticeable attempts).

It seems weird to assume that these desires were somehow always under the surface waiting to come to the surface.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, we've got jade bots. Minimal stats bonus, and only to vitality, so easy to overlook, but still the first time since forever when new gear slot with stats has been added.

I agree, this was an example of statcreep. But I don't think it was because they wanted to add vertical progression, but that they wanted to increase some of the power of weaker players.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Then there was the issue with two new stat sets being heavily restricted in acquisition methods, even though in 2019 (so, only a year before) they introduced a streamlined system that was supposed to allow all stat select gear to automatically have access to stats based on the expansions you have. Again, while annoying for those that did not have legendaries, was mostly a minor thing.

This i didn't know. But is it an example of vertical progression?

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Although, notice, that it was a bit more commented on than the jade bot stats.

Then came SotO with relics. A new gear type that does not introduce anything new,

Which is to me why it is not really vertical progression.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

but instead moves to a new slot part of the functionality previously covered by runes. Then came the realization that it is actually an indirect attack on Legendary gear being "future proofed". And that they apparently had no initial plan to make legendary relic at all. Then there was the whole case of "partial compensation", which, again, was just trying to downplay the attack on Legendary status.

Is an oversight the same as vertical progression? 

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And here comes the latest news. While compensation will now be full, they are now not even trying to hide that they do not like the old "gear stability" approach and would prefer to push us into gear (re)acquisition gameplay every expansion and patch.

To me that would be true if

A) old gear/relic would be bad in the new expac. 

B) The acquisition would be grindy. ATM the only relics I would consider a potential relics I consider a potential problem are the convergence one, the three that need the map mats and the story meta achievement ones.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And that they look at the Legendary "future proof" QoL (and overall at the gear stability idea) as shackles they'd rather be rid of, instead of being proud of it as they once were.

 

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And the cake is taken by their "explanation" about how, in 2019, them "allowing" legendary gear to automatically get access to new stats from new expansions was somehow an exception they made then, against all common sense, just to hold to old promises. As if that "exception" wasn't the exact point of that whole patch in the first place.

Could you post the link of this part, I haven't kept up with that apparently.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It clearly looks as if until at least that patch of 2019 they stayed the course set by the ascended backlash, but that in the following year leading to the release of EoD something changed. Why is that so is anyone's guess (meybe it's NCSoft influence, maybe the people that supported the old paradigm are now gone from Anet, or something else completely) but the change did happen, and Anet is once again is set to retread the path they once attempted with ascended. Even if, wary of that original backlash, they are now moving more slowly and cautiously, their end goal seems to be the exact same.

To me, it doesn't seem as a desire to move to horizontal progression, and moreso a few badly thought about ideas by anet. It is not that the new expac can't be played with old relics after all.

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Omega.6801 said:

People don't want to understand. That's all.

It's moreso that some people disagree. The fact that you need to unlock relics doesn't mean you can't just jump in after all.

[Omega.6801]

53 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

It's moreso that some people disagree. The fact that you need to unlock relics doesn't mean you can't just jump in after all.

And you don't see how doing things (unlock relics to be up to date) before you can jump right in(play what you want) and jumping right in(play what you want) are two different things?

Again, it's not about how easy it will or won't be to unlock the darn things. It's also not about how little time will take or how expensive it will be. It's also not about not wanting to play the game. I have 20k hours played, 45k AP and heaps of Legendaries on my account, I want to play the game and I will play the game. I will probably do most if not all things required to unlock whatever relics anyway. That. Is. Not. The. Point. But I'm looking forward to be called a toddler again by people without reading comprehension.
The point is that this new approach to "legendaries" introduces gear progression ANet chose to avoid for over a decade. A choice many players apreciated. This new way of doing things will make it so, that legendaries will require maintenance. But I have explained that twice in this thread already, people can read up on it if they care. But again, they don't, throwing around insults is easier. I'm out.

[WRay.2391]

15 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

And you don't see how doing things (unlock relics to be up to date) before you can jump right in(play what you want) and jumping right in(play what you want) are two different things?

Again, it's not about how easy it will or won't be to unlock the darn things. It's also not about how little time will take or how expensive it will be. It's also not about not wanting to play the game. I have 20k hours played, 45k AP and heaps of Legendaries on my account, I want to play the game and I will play the game. I will probably do most if not all things required to unlock whatever relics anyway. That. Is. Not. The. Point. But I'm looking forward to be called a toddler again by people without reading comprehension.
The point is that this new approach to "legendaries" introduces gear progression ANet chose to avoid for over a decade. A choice many players apreciated. This new way of doing things will make it so, that legendaries will require maintenance. But I have explained that twice in this thread already, people can read up on it if they care. But again, they don't, throwing around insults is easier. I'm out.

Seems like people forgot why games exist. It's an entertainment created to have fun. It's not supposed to be a job, especially if you are not getting paid for it. MMOs little by little introduced this horrible trend of waisting time. And people accepted it. GW2 is unique in this allowing to at least future proof your gear. Until now... They are starting, very softly, to break this tradition. For now it's a boot in the door with legendary relic functionality step down, but still calling it legendary...

IMO if they want to go with this they should introduce another tear between legendary and ascended to make clear distinction. At least we can call out if they will try to downgrade existing legendary in tier in the future.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

This indeed was a huge mistake on there part, and I'm glad it got the backlash it has gotten.

Yeah, me too.

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

It seems weird to assume that these desires were somehow always under the surface waiting to come to the surface.

Either that, or there was something else that changed before EoD that brough those back. Who knows? But like i said, something did change about it in between 2019 and EoD launch.

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

I agree, this was an example of statcreep. But I don't think it was because they wanted to add vertical progression, but that they wanted to increase some of the power of weaker players.

I'd have believed it more if that was an isolated incident. It wasn't. Besides, it didn't really help weaker players (and it definitely didn't increase anyone's power)

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

This i didn't know. But is it an example of vertical progression?

Classic vertical progression? No, not really. Gear progression system that effectively aims at the same goal (even if it does it on a much, much smaller degree)? Yes.

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

Which is to me why it is not really vertical progression.

Taking something away only to reintroduce it (but only after you earn it back somehow) is exactly how gear progression works. The only exception is that in classic version the "taking away" is done not by decreasing your power, but by moving the enemies on a higher threshold. the end result is the same - to stay in the same place you need to keep running on that hamster wheel.

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

Is an oversight the same as vertical progression?

First, see above on how something need not look as classic vertical gear progression to still be a gear progression system with similar goal. Second - was it really oversight? Even if it was (and i am not sure, due to it not being an isolated incident) it'd just mean they no longer care about that no gear progression idea, or they would have caught that out immediately. Or, when caught, would have stepped back instead of pushing through with it (which shows they value that "oversight" consequence more than their integrity and past promises).

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

To me that would be true if

A) old gear/relic would be bad in the new expac. 

B) The acquisition would be grindy. ATM the only relics I would consider a potential relics I consider a potential problem are the convergence one, the three that need the map mats and the story meta achievement ones.

It's not the whole system. It's just one (and not the first) of the steps leading to introduction of one. Sure, that step is not big, but it is bigger than the previous ones, and this time they are pretty much clear about their overall intention of getting away with no gear progression idea and wanting it to be an integral part of the game from now on.

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

Could you post the link of this part, I haven't kept up with that apparently.

It's in the blogpost linked in the first post of this thread. Look at the part where they speak of 2019 gear update, and then realize that the ability to get access to all stats from expansions you own (with no special unlock restrictions) was introduced in that very update for all stat-selected gear (not only ascended, but also many exotics, a lot of whose got their available stat selection massively expanded, and some even obtained stat selection when they were a fixed stat set before). Rather obviously, patch 2019 they bring up was meant to ease access to different stat sets, without having to jump through special hoops to obtain specific rarer stat sets, and do it for all gear, not just legendaries.

Yes, there's the issue that stat selection for ascended and exotic gear is restricted to only stat sets from content you own, while for legendaries it is not. If that was the decision they wanted to go back in, i'd understand it fully, because it does make sense. Having to add gameplay restrictions using as an argument an update designed to remove them (and for all gear, becuse the legendaries were the least affected by this update) is a bit misleading.

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

To me, it doesn't seem as a desire to move to horizontal progression, and moreso a few badly thought about ideas by anet. It is not that the new expac can't be played with old relics after all.

Those badly thought ideas are too consistent, and supported by statements of intent pointing in a worrying direction. It's not a set of independent mistakes. It's a pattern showing a change in design goals. And seeing where those goals point toward, i'd rather not wait till they get fully realized before i start complaining. Because by then it will be way, way too late.

[yann.1946]

2 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

And you don't see how doing things (unlock relics to be up to date) before you can jump right in(play what you want) and jumping right in(play what you want) are two different things?

Ofcourse they are two different things, where did i claim they werent?

2 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

Again, it's not about how easy it will or won't be to unlock the darn things. It's also not about how little time will take or how expensive it will be. It's also not about not wanting to play the game. I have 20k hours played, 45k AP and heaps of Legendaries on my account, I want to play the game and I will play the game. I will probably do most if not all things required to unlock whatever relics anyway. That. Is. Not. The. Point. But I'm looking forward to be called a toddler again by people without reading comprehension.
The point is that this new approach to "legendaries" introduces gear progression ANet chose to avoid for over a decade.

I disagree that it is gearprogression. Specifically, because because gearprogression is something i consider to happen to all people, not just the people with a legendary.

2 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

A choice many players apreciated. This new way of doing things will make it so, that legendaries will require maintenance. But I have explained that twice in this thread already, people can read up on it if they care. But again, they don't, throwing around insults is easier. I'm out.

I'm sorry for all the people who insulted you, that is no way to hold a conversation. 

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Either that, or there was something else that changed before EoD that brough those back. Who knows? But like i said, something did change about it in between 2019 and EoD launch.

That is also a possibility, that seems more reasonable

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'd have believed it more if that was an isolated incident. It wasn't.

Fair

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Besides, it didn't really help weaker players (and it definitely didn't increase anyone's power)

I mean, it did increase peoples power. whether it helped weaker plays i cant say with certainty. 

Tbh, the jade bot is what i consider the biggest problem in relationship to powercreep.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Classic vertical progression? No, not really. Gear progression system that effectively aims at the same goal (even if it does it on a much, much smaller degree)? Yes.

Personally, i find it dificult to consider gear progression in new stats a form of vertical progression. To me personally, the boundary is on whether a person can reasonable complete all the content with base game gear. I personally dont consider it a problem if some stats are more difficult to acquire then others. In that sense support builds have a problem, since there are not really ok base game stats for them as far as i know.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Taking something away only to reintroduce it (but only after you earn it back somehow) is exactly how gear progression works. The only exception is that in classic version the "taking away" is done not by decreasing your power, but by moving the enemies on a higher threshold. the end result is the same - to stay in the same place you need to keep running on that hamster wheel.

Since they gave the relic boxes so you wouldnt fall without sixth slot bonusses once SoTo released i dont think it really applies.

People didnt really become weaker when SoTo released (maybe the summoning sixth slot bonusses, but they havent reintroduced those yet)

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

First, see above on how something need not look as classic vertical gear progression to still be a gear progression system with similar goal. Second - was it really oversight? Even if it was (and i am not sure, due to it not being an isolated incident) it'd just mean they no longer care about that no gear progression idea, or they would have caught that out immediately. Or, when caught, would have stepped back instead of pushing through with it (which shows they value that "oversight" consequence more than their integrity and past promises).

To me, gear progression is something which affects all players. If it was vertical gear progression it wouldnt have affected just the legendary rune holders. 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not the whole system. It's just one (and not the first) of the steps leading to introduction of one. Sure, that step is not big, but it is bigger than the previous ones, and this time they are pretty much clear about their overall intention of getting away with no gear progression idea and wanting it to be an integral part of the game from now on.

I do agree that it set the potential stage for future introduction of gear progression, and as such i really appreciate the push back against anet for this. I just dont think its fair to call it vertical progression.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's in the blogpost linked in the first post of this thread. Look at the part where they speak of 2019 gear update, and then realize that the ability to get access to all stats from expansions you own (with no special unlock restrictions) was introduced in that very update for all stat-selected gear (not only ascended, but also many exotics, a lot of whose got their available stat selection massively expanded, and some even obtained stat selection when they were a fixed stat set before). Rather obviously, patch 2019 they bring up was meant to ease access to different stat sets, without having to jump through special hoops to obtain specific rarer stat sets, and do it for all gear, not just legendaries.

Yes, there's the issue that stat selection for ascended and exotic gear is restricted to only stat sets from content you own, while for legendaries it is not. If that was the decision they wanted to go back in, i'd understand it fully, because it does make sense. Having to add gameplay restrictions using as an argument an update designed to remove them (and for all gear, becuse the legendaries were the least affected by this update) is a bit misleading.

When i read that part (i forgot it mentioned the 2019 patch) it seems moreso a reinforcement that they wont change the old legendaries.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Those badly thought ideas are too consistent, and supported by statements of intent pointing in a worrying direction. It's not a set of independent mistakes. It's a pattern showing a change in design goals. And seeing where those goals point toward, i'd rather not wait till they get fully realized before i start complaining. Because by then it will be way, way too late.

I do agree that we should be careful in the future with what gets introduced, but i cant consider something which only effects the people with legendaries a vertical gear progression.

Would you have considered it a problem if legendaries always worked that way?

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Me: "If playing through it once was all it took, it would be one thing, but it is not like this at all."

You: "But... that is all it takes..."

So, sure, you never said that at all.

Technically he said "playing through content" once and not what you made it into ("playing through story once"). If you want to leverage that through context of the previous posts made by a different user, it was still not really just about "playing only story once": "If you don't complete the story even once, or do the new maps on just one character, why are you even playing the game".

Getting those relics is easy and it mostly is just playing through content once.  What's kind of worrying is that intentionally op relics can be used as a card "forcing" players to buy expansions to remain relevant in content like wvw. Not that it already wasn't the case with things like especs or with runes before the legendary ones existed. So... mixed feelings.

Edited January 31 by Sobx.1758

[Smol.7985]

Just a heads up Anet , there is still plenty of time to not go back on your word and deliver an actual legendary relic .

 

 

 

[Labjax.2465]

10 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

I can't believe there are some people in this thread that still don't get it.

They've taken the 6 rune bonus, where the legendary ALWAYS gave us access to new options as soon as they were available, and put it on a new legendary that's NOT going to give us access to new options as soon as they are available. It's setting a precedent that they can take away the legendary access that we currently have at any time, if they choose to. It's setting a further precedent that any future legendaries they may introduce are going to work the same way.

This isn't how legendaries have worked. And it's a change that it's clear a significant portion of the player base do NOT want. We have 3 choices, basically; we can push back against this and get ANET to change direction (again), that's option 1. We can simply leave the game without saying a thing, option 2. Or option 3, we can carry on playing and silently accept the change in direction that ANET have decided to impose. The move away from the "sanctity" of legendaries to be permanent complete items, regardless of how long you step away from the game for, is not one that I find acceptable, personally.

I've taken breaks from this game before, knowing that I can come back to a host of relevant content that I can jump into straight away. Knowing that my legendary armoury will allow me to do that without issue. Suddenly ANET are starting to tell me that if I walk away I'm going to come back to a host of unlocks I need to negotiate. They're telling me I can't walk away for a while without implications. That's not an attitude I want to encourage.

So I'm going to continue to shout about this until they change tack. And if they don't, I'll be leaving permanently. And no, you can't have my stuff.

You sum it up well. Video games are known for pushing something unpalatable, then after backlash, partially rolling it back but not all the way and taking the praise for "listening." Now I'm not saying "I can mind-read and Anet planned this situation in that way", but so far, it looks a lot like that pattern, planned or improvised. They did something that is pretty easy to predict people won't like (screwing around with rune bonuses and kinda sorta shifting them elsewhere without accounting for established setups people are used to) then after a while, came out with news of "compensation" (frontloading the compensation news itself before the part that explains the compensation does not stack up to what was taken away, making it a lot less generous than it first sounds).

The end result being that Anet gets their way - changing an existing type of gear at will, taking away something players have earned, going months without giving it back and then only saying they'll give it back in a sideways way with some fine print on how it works that presumably matches their design goals going forward. And the players, in spite of it being portrayed like they are being compensated for what occurred, aren't even getting back what they lost, they are just having to eat the loss and be happy to get something moderately similar with iffy implications tied to it.

Legendaries are not safe from having their functionality reduced over time. That's the bottom line, isn't it? The concept of one-and-done, "huge time investment to never have to think about this gear slot again" is being undermined in a significant way. Which creates an awkward crack in the game's design on top of being rough for players who have already spent so much time getting legendaries; much of the reason to spend significant time in the game is to work toward legendaries. If they are not safe from significant changes, from being reduced from truly being "legendary," then what is the point of spending so much time to get them? And then from there, what is the point in spending so much time playing the game?

Of course, there are those who enjoy the game for more than one type of "rewards" structure, but legendaries are clearly positioned as the big carrot on the stick draw. If they have their functionality reduced, or the threat hanging over players' heads of such happening in the future, they more become just: "items that take an obscenely disproportionate amount of time to get for what they provide and aren't worth it."

Like part of the presented value of a legendary is you might have to go through some slog now to get perma-convenience going forward. If it's instead "you might have to go through some slog now to get something that may or may not be convenient going forward and might be changed or shifted into something else or will require significant replay of whatever the latest content is to keep its functionality maximized which prob costs extra money to even access", what's the point? Why would anyone want to play a game that ceases to do its own long-standing model effectively and has a tepid foot in the shallow end of the pool on a model they were supposed to be different from, that countless other games do in a dedicated way? It's not as though people are without options if they want a game that'll be less permanent with rewards, in exchange for them being on a shorter timetable and simpler acquisition method for getting the reward. It's pretty much the standard in MMOs and has been for a long time.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Technically he said "playing through content" once and not what you made it into ("playing through story once"). If you want to leverage that through context of the previous posts made by a different user, it was still not really just about "playing only story once": "If you don't complete the story even once, or do the new maps on just one character, why are you even playing the game".

I did not talk just about story. The example i gave was about doing story, map completion and metas. On more than one character.

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Getting those relics is easy and it mostly is just playing through content once.  What's kind of worrying is that intentionally op relics can be used as a card "forcing" players to buy expansions to remain relevant in content like wvw. Not that it already wasn't the case with things like especs or with runes before the legendary ones existed. So... mixed feelings.

Yes. I am worried that if they'll feel in the future that the current method did not work well enough, they might decide to go harder in either making new relics more desirable, or increasing the requirements, or both. Once they arrive at the idea of using gear stats (as opposed to looks) to push players into certain content, they are very likely to keep introducing more and more of that in the future. Unless they get heavily burned with this, of course.

[LilyStarflame.5738]

Personally, I wouldn't even mind if they had us unlock new stat setups on legendary gear as well. I like playing the game, I'm not constantly looking for ways to play it less. Legendaries are already incredibly convenient, if I have to earn the new convenience of new gear each update, that's fine. It's such a minor thing that people are losing their minds about.

[idpersona.3810]

18 minutes ago, LilyStarflame.5738 said:

Personally, I wouldn't even mind if they had us unlock new stat setups on legendary gear as well. I like playing the game, I'm not constantly looking for ways to play it less. Legendaries are already incredibly convenient, if I have to earn the new convenience of new gear each update, that's fine. It's such a minor thing that people are losing their minds about.

I don't think people are "losing their minds". They are however voicing their opposition to a potential change in gw2 gaming philosophy. And it's worth doing if one disagrees. There's basically no other recourse.
And again, legendary owners are not looking to play the game less. That's a silly talking point that isn't supported. The opposition voices seem to want to continue playing the game they way they like instead of having to run maintenance every quarter on a legendary item.

[mirage.8046]

Gaining legendary gear of any kind has always been a grind and will always be a grind. Any game that requires tons of grinding or effort to unlock rewards or perks is commonplace. Heck, you can't buy sigils or runes from the heroics notary vendor unless you own the respective expansions. You had to buy expansions to start making other legendary equipment besides the leggo runes, sigils, ad infinitum, warcry, the ascension, and gen 1 weapons. Obviously, you will never unlock gen 2 or gen 3 legendary weapons if you don't buy POF or EOD as those require materials from those expansion maps; you won't get your open-world legendary armor if you don't buy SOTO. It's all the same. The real problem IMO is the lack of relics to improve the variety of choices to cover about 99 runes' former 6th bonuses, but that'll improve with time.

[WRay.2391]

1 hour ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I don't think people are "losing their minds". They are however voicing their opposition to a potential change in gw2 gaming philosophy. And it's worth doing if one disagrees. There's basically no other recourse.
And again, legendary owners are not looking to play the game less. That's a silly talking point that isn't supported. The opposition voices seem to want to continue playing the game they way they like instead of having to run maintenance every quarter on a legendary item.

Exactly. In addition people want to avoid their efforts wasted. How many times I was grinding ascended to be screwed by balance patch that changes meta... Having expac that introduces specs that makes existing almost obsolete, but considering everybody are grinding for it now - prices are ridiculous. So instead of "playing game" you are grinding for new mats.

Solution was to go full legendary. Regardless of grind it was worth it. And I'm obviously will never be fine with Anet forcing same "unlock" to existing legendary.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, mirage.8046 said:

Gaining legendary gear of any kind has always been a grind and will always be a grind. Any game that requires tons of grinding or effort to unlock rewards or perks is commonplace. Heck, you can't buy sigils or runes from the heroics notary vendor unless you own the respective expansions. You had to buy expansions to start making other legendary equipment besides the leggo runes, sigils, ad infinitum, warcry, the ascension, and gen 1 weapons. Obviously, you will never unlock gen 2 or gen 3 legendary weapons if you don't buy POF or EOD as those require materials from those expansion maps; you won't get your open-world legendary armor if you don't buy SOTO. It's all the same. The real problem IMO is the lack of relics to improve the variety of choices to cover about 99 runes' former 6th bonuses, but that'll improve with time.

Small correction you can buy gen 3 legendary weapons on the trading post so dont need eod for them.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 1/30/2024 at 3:02 PM, Minna.7895 said:

Actually while it does matter "how much" you have to do for the unlock in practice, in theory it doesn't. The fact they want to change the way legendary equipment behaves in general is bad and a step in the wrong direction. They could just aswell leave it be (the way all others work) and just add interesting rewards other than gear (like a nice skin) to the achievements related to the relics, or even just the AP. Some will be done by a person owning the legendary and some won't because they are not interested in either the content or the reward, this in itself is NOT an issue. Getting new content that people are not gonna be interested in itself however is an issue, this change seems to be suggesting that sadly (why else would they insist on legendary owners having to do it anyways?- if the content in itself would be interesting there would be no need for that)

What with this change becomes a big issue is the no longer existing freedom of trying out new stuff as soon as an expansion hits, wich to some is the most interesting part of even buying said expansion. Like in the past with new elites or new gearcombinations or even new runes (provided the expansion even had them... looking disapprovingly at you EOD!). Also what this means is adjusting to a new meta will likely take even longer than it already does, if even the hardcorest guys can't start straight at the golem but have to play through stuff first. BTW have you noticed that there aren't that many left anyways? Some may even only come back for exactly that part (new benchmarks) and nothing else- meaning if they can't do that anymore in the future (cause you know they can't with not having relics unlocked and not wanting to be bothered with content)... there will be no new benches for some classes maybe or atleast way later. I really don't know this for sure, it's just a guess. I like some trying new stuff out instantly myself so that is why it bothers me personally.

What bothers me the most is that, if the next expansion holds a relic that will become meta and you therefore need it, you are forced to buy that expansion. I am not sure I will buy any more expansions if the content drops equal the one from SotO Update 1 (that's not even worth being called content, overall).

[Manasa Devi.7958]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

What bothers me the most is that, if the next expansion holds a relic that will become meta and you therefore need it, you are forced to buy that expansion. I am not sure I will buy any more expansions if the content drops equal the one from SotO Update 1 (that's not even worth being called content, overall).

Hasn't it always been the case that you can't use attributes for your legendaries from expansions you don't own? Why would it be different for relics? 

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:50 PM, firedragon.8953 said:

It's basically a "relic locker" and maybe Anet should just name it as such (call he legendary "Relic Locket" or something, I dunno).

Reliquary is the word you want here.