Why ANET doesn't nerf willbenders?

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

He was in Stonefall week 1 of the most recent WR beta, ye.
The entire team chat was just bitching at him about balance tho, like a bunch of needy children rofl.

And players wonder why Anet doesn't pop Guild IDs more. Can't blame them there. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Amulet system fixes all of this.  No more food/consumables either, this isn't PvE. 

If you disagree, then are admitting that WvW is PvE and thus either jump into the boonball, use perma run build and cele, or leave the mode.  

The stat selection and such is an illusion of choice, 90% of it is utter noise.  Only disengage or zerg build allowed, and that's not changing unless they switch over to a fixed stats system and actually start applying some balancing.  

I mean I do it--on my Druid use speed relic and trapper runes now they straight buffed the condi damage from them.  Can handle most fights up to 3vX and can run for days--it's boring and I don't think it's good balance in the slightest. 

But, when the vault objectives demand and I have to WvW...do as romans do as they say.  

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Amulet system fixes all of this.

Disagree. Amulet makes players not try and pin down what their role and goal is here. Last time I jumped into sPvP a month ago so many players lost the fight because they were worried about dieing versus winning. They ran versus when they should fight and would have won.

7 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

No more food/consumables either, this isn't PvE. 

If players are slack in coming ready to fight, that falls on the ones that didn't come ready to fight.

7 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

If you disagree, then are admitting that WvW is PvE

WvW is endgame which means create your build, bring your sups, food and utility, bring the right siege and create the gear for your role and goal. Amulet means you aren't willing to take the time to play the game mode.

7 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

and thus either jump into the boonball, use perma run build and cele, or leave the mode.  

Roamer/Havoc here, will have to disagree.

7 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The stat selection and such is an illusion of choice, 90% of it is utter noise.  Only disengage or zerg build allowed, and that's not changing unless they switch over to a fixed stats system and actually start applying some balancing.  

I think if you wanted to push this point alone it might have been better without the others. I run solo, Havoc and zerg surf, Amulet would be terribad for this and drive more players out of game as it did in sPvP.

[CafPow.1542]

I don’t quite get the amulet vs armor thing really.

both are stats you chose. And i am not aware of someone mixing different stat types on his armor. (I do it sometimes occasionally for some random stuff).

the only difference is that amulets don’t provide some statcombos like celestial but this is a balance decision and not a mechanical one.

if you think full trailblazer is a problem, why does it make a difference if i run it on my armor or on an amulet?

[Zyreva.1078]

8 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

And i am not aware of someone mixing different stat types on his armor.

Stat mixing has been very common before full cele became much better than any mix. Some still mix their stats, especially those that don't want to run full cele but still want benefit at least a little bit from it's opness.

Edited February 16 by Zyreva.1078

[Dawdler.8521]

2 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

And i am not aware of someone mixing different stat types on his armor. (I do it sometimes occasionally for some random stuff).

We used to, before 4-stats and cele. Both made “sacrificing” stats by going hybrid and gaining other stats pointless, like going zerker+knights for a tougher power frontliner - you lost ferocity but gained toughness. If you wanted vitality… well then it’s more mixing.

If people don’t see why this was so much better than brainless cele with 70% more stats than all other gear I pity them.

[CafPow.1542]

37 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Stat mixing has been very common before full cele became much better than any mix. Some still mix their stats, especially those that don't want to run full cele but still want benefit at least a little bit from it's opness.

Yeah and i do that too. Or for fractals i go full viper and put some diviner in it to stack alacduration or whatever but this is very niche isn’t it? 
i mean i we assume cele is so op then it will always be better to go full cele anyways. And deleting an amulet or deleting a statcombo for a specific gamemode is the same in the end.

 

37 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

We used to, before 4-stats and cele. Both made “sacrificing” stats by going hybrid and gaining other stats pointless, like going zerker+knights for a tougher power frontliner - you lost ferocity but gained toughness. If you wanted vitality… well then it’s more mixing.

If people don’t see why this was so much better than brainless cele with 70% more stats than all other gear I pity them.

I honestly already thought about it. I like cele on elementalist i admit it. If they ever delete it, imma go and try some mixed stats stuff.

honestly i would like the idea of more „mixed stat combos“ in general. This is also honestly a strong argument against the amulet-system (which i wouldn’t want to have in any other gamemode)

[Silinsar.6298]

Stat mixing was arguable much more important when there were less stat combinations and mostly 3-stat ones. It also tied into the old trait system that "attached" some of your overall stats to your traitlines, so for example you'd automatically spend some of your stat pool on 300 toughness when maxing a defensive traitline.

I still mix and match me stuff to what exactly I want (from 3-4 stat combinations) and think some builds can benefit from that. For example cele builds that also use defensive traits + utilities would be much more dangerous when investing more into offense and still plenty hard to kill. However, many builds you can default to one combination without much drawback.

[CafPow.1542]

19 minutes ago, Silinsar.6298 said:

still mix and match me stuff to what exactly I want (from 3-4 stat combinations) and think some builds can benefit from that. For example cele builds that also use defensive traits + utilities would be much more dangerous when investing more into offense and still plenty hard to kill. However, many builds you can default to one combination without much drawback.

I do it mostly with zerker or viper with adding a statcombo with boon duration (commander or diviner i think) when i have to dps and do the alac / quick aswell.

but i would enjoy it when this principle gets extended a little.

still, there is no reason to advocate for the implementation of stat-amulets in wvw is there?

Edited February 16 by CafPow.1542

[CutesySylveon.8290]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

No more food/consumables either, this isn't PvE. 

If you disagree, then are admitting that WvW is PvE

What kind of stupid logic is this? Because some things are used in both modes that means they're both the same? sPvP is PvE by that logic too because we use sigils, runes, and relics.

Before you try to say 'That's different', it's not. If WvW was just PvE, then they wouldn't balance the two modes differently. I'd love to have PvE Shiro in WvW, but that's obviously not the case because they're different game modes.

Edited February 16 by CutesySylveon.8290

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I don’t quite get the amulet vs armor thing really.

both are stats you chose. And i am not aware of someone mixing different stat types on his armor. (I do it sometimes occasionally for some random stuff).

the only difference is that amulets don’t provide some statcombos like celestial but this is a balance decision and not a mechanical one.

if you think full trailblazer is a problem, why does it make a difference if i run it on my armor or on an amulet?

Amulets, forces full stat sets. Also the amulet system has removed some stats completely in sPvP while trying to encourage e-sports. In WvW players might combo more stats based on what they might be trying to build a role for their goal. Let alone when you add the potential to have a gear set completely removed which is an ongoing thing in the forums. Listing sets that have been asked to be removed that I can think about; Berserker, Viper, Trailblazer, Soldier, Knight, Sentinel, Cele, Minstrel, Marauder in a quick second of pondering. In sPvP most defensive stats have already been removed. Amulet system partially works in sPvP to allow players to limited try out builds and build up currency for gear. WvW requires players to actually go and do the thing if they think the build has potential. Amulet system limitations removed options for players to pre-test if it was worth spending time or coin in getting the mats that might be needed for a set. 

In either case Anet's already given players a system that handles both in the form of Leggo Armor. We are just missing supporting trinkets. Take TB as an example, for quite a long time making Trailblazers would cost you more than a Comm Tag. Took 2 years before actually gathering the first Mag Lilly, think the highest price I remember was 25 gold each. So in this case Leggo armor handles both.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

WvW is endgame which means create your build, bring your sups, food and utility, bring the right siege and create the gear for your role and goal. Amulet means you aren't willing to take the time to play the game mode.

Roamer, right? Then what is the right gear for your role and goal? Oh yeah, cele and speed relic.  If not cele, then either Maura/Dragonhunter or Trailblazer.  See how all those fit into an amulet type they can actually adjust properly?

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Roamer/Havoc here, will have to disagree.

Again, tell me, what build/spec do you run as roamer? It's funny to me we're defining roles here but refuse to define stats for said roles...

6 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

What kind of stupid logic is this? Because some things are used in both modes that means they're both the same? sPvP is PvE by that logic too because we use sigils, runes, and relics.

Do you see food in sPvP? No? Also, you do not have access to the full sigils, runes, etc. that you do in PvE/WvW.  That's for a reason btw.

[kash.9213]

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Disagree. Amulet makes players not try and pin down what their role and goal is here. Last time I jumped into sPvP a month ago so many players lost the fight because they were worried about dieing versus winning. They ran versus when they should fight and would have won.

If players are slack in coming ready to fight, that falls on the ones that didn't come ready to fight.

WvW is endgame which means create your build, bring your sups, food and utility, bring the right siege and create the gear for your role and goal. Amulet means you aren't willing to take the time to play the game mode.

Roamer/Havoc here, will have to disagree.

I think if you wanted to push this point alone it might have been better without the others. I run solo, Havoc and zerg surf, Amulet would be terribad for this and drive more players out of game as it did in sPvP.

I can kind of agree with all of that, but WvW isn't open world or part of the core world in any way. Being willing to take time to play the game mode will mean neglecting WvW for much of the time to do pve unless you have near endless time and time management to gain enough in WvW. 

WvW is a game mode right now, regardless how much we want to call it end game, it's just not an endgame. Get us legit open world pvp and I'd be right there with you about the food and full range of pve gear options. 

Edited February 16 by kash.9213

[CafPow.1542]

43 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Roamer, right? Then what is the right gear for your role and goal? Oh yeah, cele and speed relic.  If not cele, then either Maura/Dragonhunter or Trailblazer.  See how all those fit into an amulet type they can actually adjust properly?

Again, tell me, what build/spec do you run as roamer? It's funny to me we're defining roles here but refuse to define stats for said roles...

Do you see food in sPvP? No? Also, you do not have access to the full sigils, runes, etc. that you do in PvE/WvW.  That's for a reason btw.

Why not delete all stats in all game modes then? Your arguments can also apply for pve. All of them.

personally i think the amulett system should also go away in pvp. Now what.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

29 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Why not delete all stats in all game modes then? Your arguments can also apply for pve. All of them.

personally i think the amulett system should also go away in pvp. Now what.

It doesn't apply for PvE as endgame PvE is based almost entirely around rotations, which you can theorycraft stat / consumable combos into for efficiency.

When playing against other players however, it leads to topics like this one.  

We already have categories like 'roamer', 'havoc', 'zerg'--so if had an amulet system to standardize around, they can then adjust professions in that manner too.  Willbender for example, mechanically would always be one to run in and out of anything (including zergs), so can be balanced around 'roamer' archetype.  

If none of this sounds fun, then how about we quit with these topics; as to me, there's no way to achieve small and large scale balance simultaneously while allowing players to select stats and have all PvE based consumables.

Edited February 16 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

Anet has spoken, no nerfs for Willbender, they got some buffs though in the new patch.

[CafPow.1542]

12 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It doesn't apply for PvE as endgame PvE is based almost entirely around rotations, which you can theorycraft stat / consumable combos into for efficiency.

When playing against other players however, it leads to topics like this one.  

We already have categories like 'roamer', 'havoc', 'zerg'--so if had an amulet system to standardize around, they can then adjust professions in that manner too.  Willbender for example, mechanically would always be one to run in and out of anything (including zergs), so can be balanced around 'roamer' archetype.  

If none of this sounds fun, then how about we quit with these topics; as to me, there's no way to achieve small and large scale balance simultaneously while allowing players to select stats and have all PvE based consumables.

All your arguments also apply for pve.

you have zerker or viper and a support stat like harrier n that’s it.

and you can tune it up and delete bufffood etc.

all this applies for pve aswell. Nothing new so far. It would just suck as a system, and it would also suck in wvw.

[Chiral.8915]

LOL WillBlender got buffed 

[Nugatory.8920]

https://youtu.be/ZG15oP7q4fI?feature=shared

[TheGrimm.5624]

 

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Roamer, right?

We don't play in the same region or that I think. I think you are EU and I am NA. Not sure what I could offer up to show I roam. 

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Then what is the right gear for your role and goal?

Yes.

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Oh yeah, cele and speed relic. 

Nope.

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

If not cele, then either Maura/Dragonhunter.

Nope.

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

or Trailblazer.

Some.

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

See how all those fit into an amulet type they can actually adjust properly?

Nope, where are the others?

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Again, tell me, what build/spec do you run as roamer?

33 toons set to both to roam and group. That's the point on why amulet fails. 

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It's funny to me we're defining roles here but refuse to define stats for said roles...

Because they vary. Take defense. A role their might be heavy armor and defense and sustain to hold while waiting reinforcement. An attack role might be high DPS and Ferocity to burn quick. A Havoc might be a mix of take and hold. A scout might be fast in and out and some deeps to burn and hold. A warband build might be move and hold that has defense, boonshare and DPS mixes. A Ganker might be fast, hit, DPS, crit and move out. 

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Do you see food in sPvP? No? Also, you do not have access to the full sigils, runes, etc. that you do in PvE/WvW.  That's for a reason btw.

That's just Anet allowing sPvP players to be lazy. sPvP was meant to be a training ground, not end game content. And then sPvP players figured out how to game the system there and farm it. Don't get me wrong the original idea was good but lead to players abusing it over time and then nerfs there missed their marks leading to less activity over time.

Amulet removes all of these in short order.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

We don't play in the same region or that I think. I think you are EU and I am NA. Not sure what I could offer up to show I roam. 

I'm NA; you could always offer up a vid--but "some trailblazer" is still proving a point here.  I also know the mix/match aspect of that is unimportant, you could run all trailblazer and get same or better effect.  

That's the whole 'illusion of choice' I refer to earlier, and amulets or fixed stats take none of that away.  They just streamline it, so the balancing can be done on important things--the actual skills and traits themselves.  

8 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

That's just Anet allowing sPvP players to be lazy. sPvP was meant to be a training ground, not end game content. 

Where does this hot take come from? Wouldn't you agree that WvW players are the lazy ones with the 'wheelchair meta' that's been only getting worse (and going to be supercharged come March)? 

I don't understand how WvW is endgame content at all.  Smallscale is really just attacking structures / NPCs or ganking (which gets boring fast due to the travel time), medium scale is pure number advantage and claim buff advantage, and large scale is unmitigated boon blob...press '1' to win.  

There's no skill there.  Let's just say 'God of WvW' and 'God of PvP' are very different things here.  You might wintrade to get one but still have to have some skill, where the other you can k-train for 3k hours and learn nothing.  

Lest I leave it out, even PvE endgame content requires skill if you aren't paying for runs.  High tier fractals, strikes, and raids are not easy.  

So, to reiterate, I would think the term 'lazy' applies squarely to WvW.  

[CafPow.1542]

The best thing… thenonly good thing i think about amulet is that you can „gear up“ a lvl1 toon and start into pvp.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

That's the whole 'illusion of choice' I refer to earlier, and amulets or fixed stats take none of that away. 

Amulet is fixed stats, that's an issue.

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

They just streamline it

As in removing mix and match.

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

so the balancing can be done on important things

There will never be balance in WvW, numbers are never equal.

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

--the actual skills and traits themselves.  

Outliers can be addressed now in the current system.

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Where does this hot take come from? Wouldn't you agree that WvW players are the lazy ones with the 'wheelchair meta' that's been only getting worse (and going to be supercharged come March)? 

No actually.

[KrHome.1920]

The amulet system would not dramatically change WvW. And that's the point. It would not matter. But it would remove the only true endgame mode that WvW is from the game. WvW ist the only game mode where every single game mechanic has its use. 

In PvE you can ignore more than half of the skills and traits. They have no use for anything. Not even in theory.

PvP is a dumbed down WvW mode, sold as "more organized and more balanced", which is a joke. All it is, is more frustration because there are a lot less options to avoid running into or overcome the latest overpowered nonsense.

Side Note: WvW has its own issues. The biggest one is player balance. Every week I am facing baruch bay I ask myself, why I still play this game. These matchups are the definition of stupidity. Alliances only job is to fix things like these. We will see.

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

The amulet system would not dramatically change WvW. And that's the point. It would not matter. But it would remove the only true endgame mode that WvW is from the game. WvW ist the only game mode where every single game mechanic has its use. 

In PvE you can ignore more than half of the skills and traits. They have no use for anything. Not even in theory.

PvP is a dumbed down WvW mode, sold as "more organized and more balanced", which is a joke. All it is, is more frustration because there are a lot less options to avoid running into or overcome the latest overpowered nonsense.

Side Note: WvW has its own issues. The biggest one is player balance. Every week I am facing baruch bay I ask myself, why I still play this game. These matchups are the definition of stupidity. Alliances only job is to fix things like these. We will see.

Throne and Liberty Seige WvW including Alliance is on the way. You will no longer needing to yourself why you still play the game. 

Edited February 18 by Burnfall.9573