Why ANET doesn't nerf willbenders?

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

One of your stunbreaks, judge's intervention, is used in your opener.

I mean that's fine; JI isn't going to help you get away without some critters.

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

If you took virtues traitline (indomitable courage), you get another stunbreak on crashing courage, but Willbenders tend to use that to go on the offensive (stab+aegis when you attack enough times protects you from any counterattacks that aren't unblockables or boon rips).

Also fine. But that's on a 25s cooldown and is made to be spammed.

And why wouldn't WB take virtues?

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

The last stunbreak you have left and is usually saved for stunbreaks, is contemplation of purity which you have to choose whether to use up to clear conditions when you have 5+ conditions on you and only 1 or 0 charges of f2 or use it as a stunbreak. 

CoP should be used as an emergency button, rather than to just clear condis. You have access to f2 and cleansing sigil It's not like the kitten stuff in pvp.

Other guardians use CoP to convert immob into resistance but WB shouldn't have any trouble breaking soft cc.

IMO, CoP is not necessary. I personally find it hard to not waste it. Especially if you are running something meant for fast kills and it kinda feels like a dead slot vs non-condi.

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Most willbenders will not take a third/fourth stunbreak, such as stand your ground, and instead take whirling wrath to guarantee they have enough dps to get the kill, because ultimately willbenders need to get a kill quickly before they're forced to use renewed focus and basically announce to their opponent that they are on their last legs.

You mean Whirling light, but yea; that is indeed one of the costs of wanting to secure a kill,.

I also don't think you are on your last legs when you use renewed focus because all your virtues reset. I mean, yes it can be used to run, but it's also a way of continuing the fight.

I mean I understand why people do this. And it's also perfectly fine to prioritize killing over survival. But I'm just saying it's a deliberate choice. And tbh 2 stunbreaks on 25/32 is still pretty solid.  But it does require you to play very solidly and not panic.

 

Edited February 20 by ArchonWing.9480

[Wolf.1972]

On 2/13/2024 at 5:24 AM, Nugatory.8920 said:

They're not going to balance it because they don't actually want balanced, engaging gameplay in WvW. Look at the current meta from the largest to the smallest scales in WvW. It's all braindead, spamable cheese. This is what the player base wants and the majority don't even realise they are being hard carried by broken game design.

Just embrace the cheese. Run willbender, see a willbender swap to harbinger, see a harbinger swap to deadeye. Abuse stats like cele wherever you can. When we all run the most degenerate builds possible the game will finally be balanced without any intervention required.

The truth in this is depressing lol... That's so sad!

[Sirvaleen.1379]

Don't care much either way but I find it honestly slap-your-leg funny that amongst other things they're buffing "Feel My Wrath!" by adding superspeed on top of it because it's an underutilized skill. March will be a funny month.

You want to roam ? You shouldn't, that's not what WvW is about... but Willbender is good, there the first kill is free, try it ! You want to zerg ? Good ! You can choose between 5 specs, but you should use Firebrand so everyone will love ya. Not happy with that ? Change gamemode.

[Iustitian.9176]

The real noobs here say "Dodge it". It's such a stupid tipp that don't work. 

The reality is: How do you dodge an instant 1200 range port with massive multi-hit damage (and burning) in a 3/4 second and a second 600 range port (sword 2) with much more multi-hit damage. The answer: You can't. 

Anet really should nerf the 1200 range port skill to 900 range and a 1/2 second activation time to prevent this highly op damage combination. It's hard enough to counter when the willbender uses F3 and the all boons shout too. 

Same problem with thieves. All thieves in wvw/pvp use the shadowstep skill. It's a must-have. And why: Because it's simply too strong. Anet should remove the condition cleanse and the stunbreak here.

Edited March 6 by Iustitian.9176

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

At this rate, I think the only way willbender will ever be nerfed is if people just give up and play willbender.
Anet seem to act more "quickly" if pvp is flooded with a particular spec. 
It is odd they are getting buffed, maybe the balance team just don't see the problem. 

[Padra.1678]

On 2/12/2024 at 1:37 PM, Sonork.2916 said:

How to beat WBs?  Dodge offhand sword 5.  That's it, you've done it!   As for cele WBs, WB isn't even the stupidest cele spec.  If you want to kitten on WB's just play cele harb, vind/rene, cata or mirage. There's even secret cele zerker build that will do it.  Or... alternatively, just play any pistol/blind spam thief build. 

Oh look its a Wilbinder player that still manges to die.

Please try playing that pistol blind spam thief your complaining about. You will near instant die to any reveal. 

[Sonork.2916]

If anyone is still worried about WBs in the current patch,  I dunno what to tell you.  I'd say get good, but there is no "good" in the current small scale balance of WvW.  Atm it's just various levels of kitten, face roll builds with crazy amounts of sustain via next to infinite ports, aegis, prot, resistance and barrier, all with no cost in the damage the class deals.  WB has some of this but isn't the most obnoxious of classes currently running around small scale.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

18 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Atm it's just various levels of kitten, face roll builds with crazy amounts of sustain via next to infinite ports, aegis, prot, resistance and barrier, all with no cost in the damage the class deals.  

Did you know warriors have a new set of NIKE shoes in Staff? 

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Did you know warriors have a new set of NIKE shoes in Staff? 

Yeah, may have to change out War #4 with a build for it, its not fitting into some of the others, but that movement is nice. Wish the pull was more like the Reaper sword pull though. Course would still love to see bola changed to be on hit change over to a pull after lockdown. But that would probably end up with a War nerf bat so probably to big of an ask.

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

Remind me again why Willbenders have not been nerfed?

This thread needs a bump.

[cryorion.9532]

Instead of nerfing outlier skills/traits, they are powercreeping other stuff instead. Classic Anet balance team... 🤡

Hey Anet, the finisher elite still sucks, even with evade, finisher and ability to move. It needs more! Give it 5 second invulnerable buff and add 1200 range teleport with stunbreak to FMW. Guardian has only 11k base HP so it is reasonable. 🤡

[Ferus.3165]

the typical "2 weeks later" in this thread... cause there seems to only be a handful of players who still have more problems with wb than they have with others classes and every now and then they have to leave a little rant in the forums.

15 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Instead of nerfing outlier skills/traits, they are powercreeping other stuff instead. Classic Anet balance team... 🤡

Hey Anet, the finisher elite still sucks, even with evade, finisher and ability to move. It needs more! Give it 5 second invulnerable buff and add 1200 range teleport with stunbreak to FMW. Guardian has only 11k base HP so it is reasonable. 🤡

and cryorion i don't get your point.. the elite was a total meme before and the 0.5 sec evade doesn't change much about that. The ability to finish people might as well not be there at all cause you'd play without an elite then if you wanted to save it for a finish. It also deals no dmg so you can't insta kill low hp targets like you can with banner for example. FMW is similar... the 3.5 sec superspeed is a nice buff but i don't see many guardians running this elite even after the buff.

Of course anet could have nerfed renewed focus instead but that would mean that that elite would be too strong which imo it is not.

[cryorion.9532]

6 hours ago, Ferus.3165 said:

the typical "2 weeks later" in this thread... cause there seems to only be a handful of players who still have more problems with wb than they have with others classes and every now and then they have to leave a little rant in the forums.

and cryorion i don't get your point.. the elite was a total meme before and the 0.5 sec evade doesn't change much about that. The ability to finish people might as well not be there at all cause you'd play without an elite then if you wanted to save it for a finish. It also deals no dmg so you can't insta kill low hp targets like you can with banner for example. FMW is similar... the 3.5 sec superspeed is a nice buff but i don't see many guardians running this elite even after the buff.

Of course anet could have nerfed renewed focus instead but that would mean that that elite would be too strong which imo it is not.

My point was that they keep powercreeping other elites so they are more attractive option, but in the end, no one will pick those elites because RF is way too good. Anet would have to add more to other elite skills for people to stop using RF 99% of the time... or nerf RF.

[Kuya.6495]

27 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

My point was that they keep powercreeping other elites so they are more attractive option, but in the end, no one will pick those elites because RF is way too good. Anet would have to add more to other elite skills for people to stop using RF 99% of the time... or nerf RF.

I would personally use heaven's palm over RF if the evade lasted during the entire duration of the animation because it would then serve a similar purpose as RF: an emergency exit valve when you're out of cooldowns and are getting focused. Willbender virtue cooldowns are low enough that the benefit of RF refreshing your virtues isn't that vital like it is for core and dh. 

With that said, I've seen some willbenders run feel my wrath with pack relic and those variants are even more aggresive  but in a game mode like wvw where you can be attacked by 50 people in the blink of an eye an elite that can give you time to reassess is just too valuable if there isn't another elite that serves that purpose.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

31 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I would personally use heaven's palm over RF if the evade lasted during the entire duration of the animation because it would then serve a similar purpose as RF: an emergency exit valve when you're out of cooldowns and are getting focused. Willbender virtue cooldowns are low enough that the benefit of RF refreshing your virtues isn't that vital like it is for core and dh. 

With that said, I've seen some willbenders run feel my wrath with pack relic and those variants are even more aggresive  but in a game mode like wvw where you can be attacked by 50 people in the blink of an eye an elite that can give you time to reassess is just too valuable if there isn't another elite that serves that purpose.

Even if the evade lasted the whole duration, it'd still be useless because you get much more defensive use from having all your virtue cooldowns reset. Evades also do not pass barrier skills while invulns do, and resetting Justice would give you stability to get past them after its reset if you didn't just walk through it with RF.

[Bunny.9834]

Willbender is immune to nerfs... 

 

lemme rephrase that. Guardian is immune to nerfs. 

[Kuya.6495]

32 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Even if the evade lasted the whole duration, it'd still be useless because you get much more defensive use from having all your virtue cooldowns reset. Evades also do not pass barrier skills while invulns do, and resetting Justice would give you stability to get past them after its reset if you didn't just walk through it with RF.

If it were an evade for its entire duration I would still use it over RF because: it's a port = more synergy with willbender traits = triggers radiance traits. And because it can finish off downed targets, which is great because it lets you end a fight quickly before a +1 arrives. Sure RF would be the safer route but a full evade HP would be great for a more aggressive willbender build.

[Codename T.2847]

22 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

My point was that they keep powercreeping other elites so they are more attractive option, but in the end, no one will pick those elites because RF is way too good. Anet would have to add more to other elite skills for people to stop using RF 99% of the time... or nerf RF.

Time rewind abilities fricking suck to fight against, I wonder when Anet will realize that xD

WBs using every virtues to jump in, RF and then using every virtues to jump out is as complained about as Ranger maces are in PvP atm, or as Elemental Celerity and Tactical Reload used to be. Things have CDs for a reason

Edited March 22 by Codename T.2847

[Kuya.6495]

5 minutes ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Honestly just make it like Elemental Celerity which is essentially the same thing, without the invuln part, a skill that rewinds time, resetting CD; it should only partially reset Virtues CDs. Skills like these should rightfully get nerfed as weapon skills and F1-F5 skills have a cooldown for a reason (same with things like Tactical Reload back in the day and Ranger mace skills now in PvP, and maybe CS on Chrono, but id argue that one is balanced by giga CD) 

As you said, chronomancer's Continum split allows the mesmer to reset their f skills and it is on a 105 second cooldown (vs 90 seconds for renewed focus). But CS goes down to 89 seconds with the trait master of misdirection in the illusions traitline. Alacrity further lowers this cooldown and if the chronomancer takes Improved Alacrity, the cooldown of CS is reduced again.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

23 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

If it were an evade for its entire duration I would still use it over RF because: it's a port = more synergy with willbender traits = triggers radiance traits. And because it can finish off downed targets, which is great because it lets you end a fight quickly before a +1 arrives. Sure RF would be the safer route but a full evade HP would be great for a more aggressive willbender build.

You already have a port with RF because F3 gets reset, which also gives stability along with working with almost every trait that Heaven's Palm would work with and more because it interacts with Virtue traits. Finishing downed enemies isn't exactly an issue  WB has because of how much damage you can dish out, which is more than enough considering you recharge F1 and F3 with RF. 

F2 already has evade frames with healing and potential cleanse tied to it and it's 2 charges. The only specific thing Heaven's Palm can say it does is stomp and CC; RF is better in pretty much every other way besides cooldown. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

7 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

You already have a port with RF because F3 gets reset, which also gives stability along with working with almost every trait that Heaven's Palm would work with and more because it interacts with Virtue traits. Finishing downed enemies isn't exactly an issue 

Yea the stability also is good for stomping too, not to mention the bit of extra flame damage.

Heaven's palm is really niche and probably only good for troll stomping vs those stupid sustain groups that can res really fast. But even in those cases you probably would want the extra mobility since those people like to chase and lockdown much.

Also the weird requirement of them having to be alone (??) kinda hampers things.

[Kuya.6495]

7 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea the stability also is good for stomping too, not to mention the bit of extra flame damage.

Heaven's palm is really niche and probably only good for troll stomping vs those stupid sustain groups that can res really fast. But even in those cases you probably would want the extra mobility since those people like to chase and lockdown much.

Also the weird requirement of them having to be alone (??) kinda hampers things.

They probably added the requirement that they need to be alone so it's not a guaranteed stomp. But since they didn't put the evade frames on the animation that plays after the port, that seems unnecessary since you can just cc or snipe a willbender before the elite goes off.

[XenesisII.1540]

One does not simply nerf, the main class they're playing.

🤔🤷‍♂️

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

One does not simply nerf, the main class they're playing.

🤔🤷‍♂️

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/143072-condi-firebrand-how-long-will-you-be-left-to-rot/?do=findComment&comment=2094765

What are you talking about, it got nerfed heavily... somewhere. Maybe?

This is what the devs read.

Edited March 22 by ArchonWing.9480

[Fabulous Faprio.2718]

Im very disappointed in anet that willbender got buffed