WvW needs... something

[Codename T.2847]

I had the opportunity to play pretty much a whole day during the weekend, and I realized how painfully boring EU WvW can get... I had a whole day, so I witnessed enemy server A (don't wanna name names but just know that they are filled with presumably retired age people or unemployed folks/lazy students) dominate score-wise throughout the night, and then disappearing increasingly to the point where they don't even show up during primetime.. and then enemy server B who seem to be only fun content when they bring out their blobs, or even guilds sometimes, during the evening to get some decent fighting content. But even this "decent fighitng content" is becoming increasingly dull because sometimes mustering the right amount of people to fight them in a squad can be challenging, let alone trying to cloud in a metagame where clouding barely works -.- and then there is server C (us) who don't have the population anymore to cover the clock (nor should we, it's a kinda ridiculous and pointless task) but in exchange are overwhelmingly there during primetime (although not as much anymore to make actual map Qs anywhere except maybe EBG) to terrorize the population of server A and B and hold SM tier 3 until rapture. (A.k.a when players go to sleep like normal people)

^ And this is pretty much the entire gameplay loop: one server with players that don't ever go outside and seem to care about score placement more than anything, one server which fights during primetime but is annoying as fr*ck to deal with, and another server which is kinda there to sometimes bring out the guilds to have fun with (or worse case scenario help the other "weaker" server by double teaming) but they aren't exactly a joy to play against either...

And this can't only be attributed to our matchup specifically, but also to pretty much every other matchup in EU atm. Either you roll during primetime or you get rolled off-hours and there is rarely an inbetween anymore. : ( Or maybe it's just my perception, as someone who's returned to the game from 2018 or so, and is therefore a bit nostalgic about the "better days" if there were any. : /

So yeah if you got any cool suggestions to make WvW interesting (even if only for me personally) I'm glad to hear read about them. : )

[red.9862]

In our case, we're fighting a link server that has coverage 24/7, in massive numbers, left and right. While our server has some coverage here and there, leading to fighting against 3 zergs with 20 people to defend (if even) around the clock. Not to mention our server has 0 organization (the 20 people are the commander with no comms or comps and mostly pugs), so it's pretty much one-sided for the servers that do have wvw guilds, have comms, are organized and have numbers.

We just had our EBG keep taken by the server I'm talking about, we called out on team chat, pulled ewp, pulled dragon banner, used all the supply to just have to watch no one responding to EWP on our side and just sit there watching how they just destroy it. This has been all day, every day now with the latest link.

I don't know if the team in charge of linking servers actually looks at the populations to even things out a little or they just draw a ball with a number and decide that way. If it's the latter, then that is doing more damage than good.

Edited March 6 by red.9862

[Dawdler.8521]

There is a reason why a little more randomization than links might actually be good for the mode.

But of course many don’t like that because they like being on those dominating worlds in the glorious name of server pride.

[Scolix.4879]

It needs the reconstruction because during the beta event it was actually almost always 24/7 fun to play the normal wvw is just way too unbalanced its unfun to fight agaisnt 2 extremely organized servers when your server only has people playing in weekends and peak times against people who seem to have no jobs and can be online 24/7.

Its just not fun at all to log in and see your team has 200-500 points against 2 servers with thousands of points and when you go to actual maps only thing you have is the base camp on every map with people spawn camping your team. Only thing it does to me is to make me wait the next reset and hope we get actual fun servers to fight against with actual fun and more balanced battles than just massacre.

[Codename T.2847]

5 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

It needs the reconstruction because during the beta event it was actually almost always 24/7 fun to play the normal wvw is just way too unbalanced its unfun to fight agaisnt 2 extremely organized servers when your server only has people playing in weekends and peak times against people who seem to have no jobs and can be online 24/7.

Its just not fun at all to log in and see your team has 200-500 points against 2 servers with thousands of points and when you go to actual maps only thing you have is the base camp on every map with people spawn camping your team. Only thing it does to me is to make me wait the next reset and hope we get actual fun servers to fight against with actual fun and more balanced battles than just massacre.

Yeah as bug ridden as betas usually are, they are some of the most intense and overall well balanced weeks xD 

[Sleepwalker.1398]

The game mode needs a better boon removal method than a 30-45 sec skill that removes 1 boon from 5 player that gets reapplied less than a second later.

Such is the state of WvW. Game gets balanced around PVE/PVP so most of the needed changes do not even make it to WvW.

[Luranni.9470]

2 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Yeah as bug ridden as betas usually are, they are some of the most intense and overall well balanced weeks xD 

"Beta's" really aren't a good example though, as the increase in traffic likely has more to do with the bonuses and achievements than anything else.

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Yeah as bug ridden as betas usually are, they are some of the most intense and overall well balanced weeks xD 

The thing is that during the beta's there are things to incentivize people like double XP and WvW events. And those are also interesting for non-WvW players because they can get more, well, XP. So that really gives a skewed view of what it would be like when it's implemented and the norm again. I suspect the same issues will pop up again within a few months after it going live because whatever they're testing with the beta's, it's not going to solve these problems afaic.

[kash.9213]

Eternal Battgrounds should have been an interesting and evolving map region of the core world connected like regular maps that people can happen upon, with an opt-in pop up warning that it's a pvp area. Then the borders should have been rotated new maps keeping up with the games story. 

Edited March 7 by kash.9213

[Dawdler.8521]

55 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The thing is that during the beta's there are things to incentivize people like double XP and WvW events.

Perhaps... But WvW rush ended the 16th if I'm not mistaken, which was in the middle of the first week. The beta itself ran two more weeks to the 2nd. And the 16th a LS event started. PvP rush was 16th to the 30th. And then lunar new year came in the middle of the last beta week too.

But according to the forums it's only unfair to compare when there is more activity, because of course it is.

[Gehenna.3625]

22 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Perhaps... But WvW rush ended the 16th if I'm not mistaken, which was in the middle of the first week. The beta itself ran two more weeks to the 2nd. And the 16th a LS event started. PvP rush was 16th to the 30th. And then lunar new year came in the middle of the last beta week too.

But according to the forums it's only unfair to compare when there is more activity, because of course it is.

Well the event stopped during the first week but double XP kept running for the entire 3 weeks.

Edited March 7 by Gehenna.3625

[Mabi black.1824]

49 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Eternal Battgrounds should have been an interesting and evolving map region of the core world connected like regular maps that people can happen upon, with an opt-in pop up warning that it's a pvp area. Then the borders should have been rotated new maps keeping up with the games story. 

Making it more dynamic and somewhat tied to the real world of GW2 would certainly be great. The first obstacle for something like this, I'm afraid, is a lot of development work. Of course, if we think about how much work they are willing to put into the PVE when they create an expansion. WVW could definitely achieve something more. 

[XenesisII.1540]

5 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Yeah as bug ridden as betas usually are, they are some of the most intense and overall well balanced weeks xD 

Not as intense as tournament weeks, back when people still gave a kitten to "win", which they don't these days, and certainly not for some temporary beta matchups that have no meaning. The betas felt like any other regular week, just maybe some extra pugs around and maybe a commander or two showing up more often than not due to the WR shuffle.

Well balanced weeks, plenty of people complained about how it wasn't during the beta though.

🤷‍♂️

 

[kash.9213]

36 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Making it more dynamic and somewhat tied to the real world of GW2 would certainly be great. The first obstacle for something like this, I'm afraid, is a lot of development work. Of course, if we think about how much work they are willing to put into the PVE when they create an expansion. WVW could definitely achieve something more. 

I meant that as what they should have done from the beginning. It was pretty obvious only a couple of months after launch what WvW as a game mode would simmer down and settle into. It's only been carried this long by having engaging combat mechanics that also interacts with space and terrain mostly fluidly and has lucked out by other games not matching that aspect yet on a large scale. 

People here don't want even opt-in open world pvp with guild or faction objectives and systems so I went with something still separate but then still attached to the rest of the game to keep it alive and rolling beyond the occasional patch hopes and dreams. 

[Dawdler.8521]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:57 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well the event stopped during the first week but double XP kept running for the entire 3 weeks.

WxP for a few weeks make little difference for what WvWers say PvErs are only in WvW for (ie GoB), its only some extra loot and ranks to gain more pips in the future, which you want if you wish to continue playing WvW and not if you want to "farm" since PvE probably gives a factor of 10 more for farming.

If you're saying more people keept playing after the initial WvW rush event just because double XP was active so they can gain more ranks then... fine? 🤷‍♂️

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

WxP for a few weeks make little difference for what WvWers say PvErs are only in WvW for (ie GoB), its only some extra loot and ranks to gain more pips in the future, which you want if you wish to continue playing WvW and not if you want to "farm" since PvE probably gives a factor of 10 more for farming.

If you're saying more people keept playing after the initial WvW rush event just because double XP was active so they can gain more ranks then... fine? 🤷‍♂️

PvE'ers coming to WvW are not all the same and some WvW'ers that do still play, tend to play more during those weeks because they can gain ranks more quickly. Also for PvE'ers who know a little bit of how it works will want to get more ranks because they can get more pips per tick and those are the ones that are there for WvW legendaries. And not just for the GoB. I came to WvW for the WvW legendaries myself from PvE but I ended up enjoying WvW. Some of the raiders in my guild come to WvW for Conflux, etc. So no, PvE'ers don't just come for the GoB.

In the end it's not an equal comparison to compare beta weeks to normal weeks as long as there are special circumstances during the beta that entice players to play, play again or play more WvW during those times. That's just a simple fact. I really have no idea why you're arguing this point 🤷‍♂️

 

[TexZero.7910]

On 3/6/2024 at 4:08 AM, Codename T.2847 said:

So yeah if you got any cool suggestions to make WvW interesting (even if only for me personally) I'm glad to hear read about them. : )

Transfer or Tag up.
Those are your only paths to a more active WvW state.

[Chips.7968]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:08 AM, Codename T.2847 said:

WvW needs... something

A team in charge that is vaguely competent? I agree 😄 As it is, get used to it. It's a case of "make do and drink". Or play other games.

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

In the end it's not an equal comparison to compare beta weeks to normal weeks as long as there are special circumstances during the beta that entice players to play, play again or play more WvW during those times. That's just a simple fact. I really have no idea why you're arguing this point 🤷‍♂️

Did you actually check on that activity? The beta only saw a massive uptick the first week. When the WvW rush was active. After that it dropped significantly to more "normal" level, in part because of other events as that's how WvW always dip for the past decade. That is the simple fact. I have no idea why you're arguing this either🤷‍♂️

Much of the general activity many people saw was probably more because of the spread of people, more random commanders with smaller groups and longer cloud fights rather than just having a few zergs standing on top of each other until one side dies, while the rest of the map is devoid of life.

[SweetPotato.7456]

Need more loots

[RisingDawn.5796]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Much of the general activity many people saw was probably more because of the spread of people, more random commanders with smaller groups and longer cloud fights rather than just having a few zergs standing on top of each other until one side dies, while the rest of the map is devoid of life.

There was still boonball zerg fights, depending on the matchups, but mosty BvB in eotm stopped, because there is still skill lag in there, also because the meta is boring.

So not much change  really, apart from randomization of the player population, some temporary worlds with more alliance guilds than others and the others were mostly made up of pugs and chatmanders. 

Edited March 9 by RisingDawn.5796

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, RisingDawn.5796 said:

There was still boonball zerg fights, depending on the matchups, but mosty BvB in eotm stopped, because there is still skill lag in there, also because the meta is boring.

So not much change  really, apart from randomization of the player population, some temporary worlds with more alliance guilds than others and the others were mostly made up of pugs and chatmanders. 

Not sure what EoTM has to do with anything unless you are implying people came from there to play WvW and that’s why there was more players.

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Did you actually check on that activity? The beta only saw a massive uptick the first week. When the WvW rush was active. After that it dropped significantly to more "normal" level, in part because of other events as that's how WvW always dip for the past decade. That is the simple fact. I have no idea why you're arguing this either🤷‍♂️

Much of the general activity many people saw was probably more because of the spread of people, more random commanders with smaller groups and longer cloud fights rather than just having a few zergs standing on top of each other until one side dies, while the rest of the map is devoid of life.

I don't have actual numbers. Do you? You just can't compare things properly when there's still a variable in play. Sure, the first week was busier than the following two but there's still a variable in play so it's not a proper comparison. 

[Zok.4956]

On 3/6/2024 at 11:08 AM, Codename T.2847 said:

A dominate score-wise throughout the night, and then disappearing increasingly to the point where they don't even show up during primetime.. and then enemy server B who seem to be only fun content when they bring out their blobs, or even guilds sometimes, during the evening to get some decent fighting content. and then there is server C who don't have the population anymore to cover the clock but in exchange are overwhelmingly there during primetime

Well, I would say this is a normal game loop during a 24 hour day/night cycle.

Players play at different times of the day and there are not enough players (on most servers) to have 24/7 coverage.

Yes, it's boring not having the numbers and just being farmed and it's boring just doing PPT because there aren't enough enemies. WvW is fun in the narrow time windows in between.

[Dawdler.8521]

58 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I don't have actual numbers. Do you? You just can't compare things properly when there's still a variable in play. Sure, the first week was busier than the following two but there's still a variable in play so it's not a proper comparison. 

I look at the numbers a little now and then. The average week WvW tracks around 0.8-1.2 million kills over the weekends and 1.4-1.8 million total I think but since most of the activity happen at prime and over the weekend it's not linear with time. The first beta week had about as much activity on Sunday as an entire WvW week, ending at 2.65 million which is pretty insane. Previous highest I remember was 2.3 million. Unfortunately I wasn't so detailed with the last two weeks, I know the second week was up to 1.4 million on a Tuesday and increased about 200K a day and I seem to recall the third week tracking about the same but I never wrote it down.

People keep saying that WR is so horrible (especially the last week) but shouldn't that bring the activity down? The beta weeks themselves is a variable that should have far more impact than some WXP.

Edited March 9 by Dawdler.8521