Legendary Relics Don't Work as they were Announced [Merged]

[Zebulous.2934]

Actually, how many more stat combinations would Anet release for armor?  What is left that would be useful?  Saying that new stat combinations will have to be unlocked for use in legendary equipment might not mean much. 

Edit: I suspect the new legendary rule was made specifically for legendary relics.  Including the other legendaries in the rule seems to be an empty attempt at "fairness."  If that is the case then I don't expect Anet will alter their new rule.

Edited March 14 by Zebulous.2934

[Zuiy.8721]

On 3/13/2024 at 11:20 AM, Minna.7895 said:

(on this one I'm not sure but someone mentioned some relics on this item are not the current version but an earlier one before nerfs? If that's the case they even put themselves in a weird corner with it not working like a legendary item

The description of some relics in the legendary relic haven't been updated, but the functionality has—so if you're reading descriptions from the legendary relic, they may be straight up wrong.

[Sweetbread.3678]

Was probably just wires getting crossed or it got iterated out later on. It's hard to say which it was, but the iteration thing is a huge part of why devs don't communicate very often. It's almost impossible to discuss any ongoing development without it ending up as some portion of the playerbase going full "HOW DARE YOU" at some point down the road even if it's a huge nothingburger like this. Like, oh god, you still have to do the achievements to unlock the relics for the free legendary you were just handed; what a horrifyingly disrespectful slap in the face. 🙄

[Shadowmoon.7986]

20 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Actually, how many more stat combinations would Anet release for armor?  What is left that would be useful?  Saying that new stat combinations will have to be unlocked for use in legendary equipment might not mean much. 

Edit: I suspect the new legendary rule was made specifically for legendary relics.  Including the other legendaries in the rule seems to be an empty attempt at "fairness."  If that is the case then I don't expect Anet will alter their new rule.

Two stats combos i would like is 3 stat condi damage primary, expertise and precision secondary, and 4 stat condi damage and  expertise primary, power and precision secondary. 

 

[Cheese.8421]

1 hour ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Like, oh god, you still have to do the achievements to unlock the relics for the free legendary you were just handed; what a horrifyingly disrespectful slap in the face. 🙄

Please actually read the issue before commenting on it. The issue isn't that you have to do the achievements. The issue is that the effects are just straight up not available unless you own the expansion. Which again, agree or disagree if that's a good thing that's not the point. The point is every other legendary (including runes) allows you to select stats for expansions you do not own. ANet said it would come with the relic effects and the unlocks would start at the 5th expansion. This means that people without SotO crafted the relic (or the rune) with the idea it would work as previous legendaries did because that's what ANet communicated, but now they paid full price for half of what they were told they would get.

[Sweetbread.3678]

3 hours ago, Cheese.8421 said:

This means that people without SotO crafted the relic (or the rune) with the idea it would work as previous legendaries did because that's what ANet communicated, but now they paid full price for half of what they were told they would get.

Well actually they paid the price of a single legendary rune and then got a free ~1400 g legendary relic on top of it, but sure go off about what an injustice you've been served. Somehow I doubt that if they see your complaint thread and offer you a refund for your legendary rune in exchange for removing the relic they gave you, you're gonna take that offer.

Like, yeah they probably should've communicated the SotO relic unlocks better, but communications breakdowns just happen sometimes, and it completely makes sense that core players would only unlock core content and SotO purchasers would unlock SotO content so it's not like this is some unjustifiable breach of logic. To act so indignant and entitled over not being handed a bunch of free expansion content (for an expansion you didn't even buy) on top of the free 1400g legendary they just gave you, just about makes my eyes roll completely out of my head. But hey it'll be alright; I really doubt your alt account needs a bunch of SotO relics to fulfill it's intended purpose of agreeing with your own forum posts.

Edited March 15 by Sweetbread.3678

[Labjax.2465]

1 hour ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Well actually they paid the price of a single legendary rune and then got a free ~1400 g legendary relic on top of it, but sure go off about what an injustice you've been served. Somehow I doubt that if they see your complaint thread and offer you a refund for your legendary rune in exchange for removing the relic they gave you, you're gonna take that offer.

Like, yeah they probably should've communicated the SotO relic unlocks better, but communications breakdowns just happen sometimes, and it completely makes sense that core players would only unlock core content and SotO purchasers would unlock SotO content so it's not like this is some unjustifiable breach of logic. To act so indignant and entitled over not being handed a bunch of free expansion content (for an expansion you didn't even buy) on top of the free 1400g legendary they just gave you, just about makes my eyes roll completely out of my head. But hey it'll be alright; I really doubt your alt account needs a bunch of SotO relics to fulfill it's intended purpose of agreeing with your own forum posts.

Your post reads like what someone would say defensively to a person who has been rage-arguing for 10 pages about an issue.

Except...

Here are some samples of OP's tone:

Quote

This was a bit disheartening, but I thought perhaps I may have missed something in the January announcement or read it wrong. 

Quote

 

It would be very nice if an ArenaNet employee sees this and can confirm if this is intentional, or a bug as well, since I still really do want those relic effects on my alt account, but can't justify spending money on a second copy of SotO currently.

Cheers!

 

Why are you mad at a person who is politely confused and wants to receive accurate information about a product they pay for?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The funny thing about all this is the simplest solution would be to give us the SotO relics and just be done with it.  By sticking to their word and not to their (possible) original intention, they would only satisfy players and create no ill will across the rest of the game.  

Edited March 15 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[Cheese.8421]

5 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Somehow I doubt that if they see your complaint thread and offer you a refund for your legendary rune in exchange for removing the relic they gave you, you're gonna take that offer.

Another case of someone trying to be a mind-reader in this thread. I did in fact already ask support to remove the legendary relic from my account, but they are unable too and suggested I make a forum thread.

 

5 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

and it completely makes sense that core players would only unlock core content and SotO purchasers would unlock SotO content so it's not like this is some unjustifiable breach of logic

Not when every single other legendary in the game works differently than this. And they EXPLICITLY stated in two separate paragraphs that the relics would:

1) Come with SotO effects and 

2) Starting with the FIFTH expansion (note: not SotO) require unlocks

Saying the relic was free is also not true when people crafted runes at an inflated price (I think they got up to around 900g) because of ANet's communication.  Forgive me for wanting an explanation for what happened (either it's bugged and a fix is coming, or it was intended and they messed up the announcement) from the people who make the game and not just people speculating wildly about others' intentions when writing.

This is certainly an incident that will make me hesitate to spend money on the game in the future, since it hurts trust that releases will be feature complete as announced.

[Nash.2681]

Thanks to all sharing the information about legendary gear. As someone who always bought the expansions except for SotO, I thought this would be the regular behaviour of legendary gear. Apparently it's not. So... can we get a word about this @Rubi Bayer.8493 ?

[Zyreva.1078]

19 hours ago, Zuiy.8721 said:

The description of some relics in the legendary relic haven't been updated, but the functionality has—so if you're reading descriptions from the legendary relic, they may be straight up wrong.

You sure about that?

Because when i checked that shortly after the release of the legendary relic (with flock and pack), not only the description but also the functionality was incorrectly using an old version.

But regardless of whether they have already fixed that by now, it seems like not letting the legendary relic update automatically is going to make relic changes more troublesome for anet and a breeding ground for bugs, so maybe players aren't the only ones who have to deal with "unexpected features" in the future.

[Zuiy.8721]

3 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

You sure about that?

Because when i checked that shortly after the release of the legendary relic (with flock and pack), not only the description but also the functionality was incorrectly using an old version.

But regardless of whether they have already fixed that by now, it seems like not letting the legendary relic update automatically is going to make relic changes more troublesome for anet and a breeding ground for bugs, so maybe players aren't the only ones who have to deal with "unexpected features" in the future.

I only checked Relic of Resistance.

[Ashantara.8731]

While I agree that the announcement was misleading, it does make sense that SotO relics are available only to those accounts that own the expansion.

[Doggie.3184]

They also announced they'd be compensated Leggy Relic unlock progression based on how many runes you had but ended up completely free if you had just one. The sacrifice seems fine.

Also SOTO literally has like no content or purpose if you don't need the legendary armor so they need to give a reason for people to exist there at all with Relic unlock collections at least. So I can understand why. 

Edited March 15 by Doggie.3184

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

They also announced they'd be compensated Leggy Relic unlock progression based on how many runes you had but ended up completely free if you had just one. The sacrifice seems fine.

Also SOTO literally has like no content or purpose if you don't need the legendary armor so they need to give a reason for people to exist there at all with Relic unlock collections at least. So I can understand why. 

Except that is not how ot works with soto apparently you get them all unlocked if you got  legendary relic by just applying the code.

Something that will change in mini expansion 5.

 

So again they said it would work  until mini expansion 5 like how it always worked with legendary gear then the current core/expansion relics so it should be unlocked for everyone to use.

[Sweetbread.3678]

12 hours ago, Cheese.8421 said:

This is certainly an incident that will make me hesitate to spend money on the game in the future, since it hurts trust that releases will be feature complete as announced.

Yeah and this is certainly a thread that will make them reconsider giving out any info whatsoever on anything going forward. Like they literally just gave you a 1400g legendary that any other company would've not only not handed out but also locked entirely behind purchasing the expansion, but because they left out a single sentence of a section (that in hindsight, with a single atom of basic common sense, could easily read in either direction) of a blog post about an in-development feature that probably had about 6000 moving parts behind-the-scenes that could lead to miscommunication, you're about to abandon the company. Poor baby, you didn't get enough free kitten on top of your other free kitten. Better start a change.org petition.

Gamer entitlement is literally at the point where Anet can't even hand out a free legendary without someone demanding an apology because they weren't also handed a bunch of expansion content. It's ridiculous. Like, why even try and communicate in-development features to an audience like that? It's almost impossible to convey something that's still being iterated on with 100% accuracy, and if they ever slip up players will act like they just committed wage theft against them or something. Why even hand out a free legendary relic at all at that point? People are just gonna complain anyway even though they just got what's essentially an expansion selling point worth 1400g for free.

This is a company that's only charging $25 (which is the cost of like, what, one and a half 2024 McDonald's lunches?) for a year's worth of content. Compare that to something like Destiny 2 which is probably the closest to GW2's content model in that it also has yearly expansions with seasonal added content; over there it's $100/year + having to buy $20 dungeon keys and $10 event passes for each holiday + an overpriced cash shop with no in-game currency exchange, all driven by non-stop artificially imposed FOMO. Look at WoW or FF14 or any other live-service game and it's not much better; honestly its kind of crazy how affordable GW2 is with its content/pricing. They clearly have limited resources by comparison and can ill-afford to waste content especially when they don't use manipulative fomo tactics and the main thing keeping people around is legendary stretch goals, so to essentially give everyone something that could easily have been entirely locked behind an expansion as a selling point or driven hundreds of hours of player retention is remarkably generous. But wait the blog writer and the dev team got their signals crossed and a sentence was left out and you only got 1400g worth of free kitten instead of 1400g + every SotO relic, so they better issue you a formal apology or you'll leave the game. Zoom the kitten out and get some perspective please.

[Gendalfs.7521]

Announcing legendary rune offer for free relic 1 month before deadline was real FOMO event

[Ashen.2907]

For those who had legendary runes ANet did not just, "give," a 1400g legendary, they returned functionality that had been taken from players. 

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Zuiy.8721 said:

I only checked Relic of Resistance.

I checked flock, and it was using the old version for legendary.

[Zyreva.1078]

15 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Yeah and this is certainly a thread that will make them reconsider giving out any info whatsoever on anything going forward. Like they literally just gave you a 1400g legendary that any other company would've not only not handed out but also locked entirely behind purchasing the expansion, but because they left out a single sentence of a section (that in hindsight, with a single atom of basic common sense, could easily read in either direction) of a blog post about an in-development feature that probably had about 6000 moving parts behind-the-scenes that could lead to miscommunication, you're about to abandon the company.

1. The legendary relic wasn't "free".

2. They were asked for clarification in this regard multiple times before and after the update, becaus originally people didn't actually expect to get SotO relics "for free", and anet had plenty of opportunity to answer. Yet every single time this topic comes up, complete silence from anet, while at the same time happily responding to other stuff.

This does not look like "accidential" miscommunication to me.

And if a customer isn't satisfied with a company for whatever reason, they have all rights to halt their support. And i'd say being lied to is a very good reason.

Edited March 16 by Zyreva.1078

[Sweetbread.3678]

9 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

1. The legendary relic wasn't "free".

It was a handout for anyone with less than 6 legendary runes already. Fine, you wanna play semantics? It was "buy a legendary rune get a legendary relic free"; worst case scenario even if you were 25 days late to the party and crafted a legendary rune at 900g you were still coming out 500g + a legendary rune ahead.

9 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

This does not look like "accidential" miscommunication to me.

And if a customer isn't satisfied with a company for whatever reason, they have all rights to halt their support. And i'd say being lied to is a very good reason.

Yeah you're right. It's probably some money grubbing conspiracy by the company charging less than 2 months of WoW sub for an entire year's worth of content; really lines up with their MO of kittening over the consumer at every turn.

I think this is the attitude that really gets me; the righteous indignation of it all. Admittedly, there should've been a clarifying sentence in there to explicitly specify that SotO content was locked behind a SotO purchase if only to preemptively shut up the people who's entitlement outpaces their basic common sense (although I'm sure you all would still find a way to complain about something), but there's a pretty big difference between them purposefully lying to you and them failing to specify something and then you making an assumption about a gray area and pretending it's some objective truth being violated. Like if I didn't own SotO and made a legendary rune for the free relic, I would be momentarily annoyed at not having all SotO relics unlocked, but I'd also get over it because: 1. kitten happens and Anet's historically one of the least greedy companies I've ever seen so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt over a minor communications error, and 2. it makes perfect sense that expansion content would require an expansion purchase (well makes perfect sense if you don't feel entitled to things you haven't payed for).

This is all just the same typical entitled Gamer bullkitten I've seen a thousand times before. People who feel they're owed content without having to actually pay for it, then leaping at whatever semantical technicality they can find in order to dress up their base entitlement as some sort of righteous crusade for consumer rights. It's just doubly ridiculous in this scenario, because the grievance is literally that you assumed you were owed even more free stuff on top of the 1400g handout they just gave everyone. Kitten's a complete joke.

Edited March 16 by Sweetbread.3678

[Zyreva.1078]

37 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

It was a handout for anyone with less than 6 legendary runes already. Fine, you wanna play semantics? It was "buy a legendary rune get a legendary relic free"; worst case scenario even if you were 25 days late to the party and crafted a legendary rune at 900g you were still coming out 500g + a legendary rune ahead.

Thing is, both the relic and the rune are basically worthless because of how few core runes and relics are actually worth using, so no matter how little i had to invest, it was a complete waste.

39 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

This is all just the same typical entitled Gamer bullkitten I've seen a thousand times before. People who feel they're owed content without having to actually pay for it, then leaping at whatever semantical technicality they can find in order to dress up their base entitlement as some sort of righteous crusade for consumer rights.

I never expected or demanded to get SotO relics for free. I just put a tiny little bit too much faith into anet's announcement and i've learned my lesson.

Still, i don't think it was unreasonable to expect clear communication in this regard and i don't think it's unjustified to be more sceptical of anet's claims in the future, because not matter if this was intention or incapability, it can always happen again. Even more so when they aren't getting called out for it and even defended.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

It was a handout for anyone with less than 6 legendary runes already. Fine, you wanna play semantics? It was "buy a legendary rune get a legendary relic free"; worst case scenario even if you were 25 days late to the party and crafted a legendary rune at 900g you were still coming out 500g + a legendary rune ahead.

Runes were ~300-350 gold/piece before whole Relic madness started. So, people ended up overpaying 550-600 gold to save 500 gold from a price that is also extremely overinflated (and likely will drop down by several hundred gold in around half a year at most). And all that just to regain a functionality that was removed from runes before.

Doesn't sound like "free" or "cheap" to me.

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

It was a handout for anyone with less than 6 legendary runes already. Fine, you wanna play semantics? It was "buy a legendary rune get a legendary relic free"; worst case scenario even if you were 25 days late to the party and crafted a legendary rune at 900g you were still coming out 500g + a legendary rune ahead.

Yeah you're right. It's probably some money grubbing conspiracy by the company charging less than 2 months of WoW sub for an entire year's worth of content; really lines up with their MO of kittening over the consumer at every turn.

I think this is the attitude that really gets me; the righteous indignation of it all. Admittedly, there should've been a clarifying sentence in there to explicitly specify that SotO content was locked behind a SotO purchase if only to preemptively shut up the people who's entitlement outpaces their basic common sense (although I'm sure you all would still find a way to complain about something), but there's a pretty big difference between them purposefully lying to you and them failing to specify something and then you making an assumption about a gray area and pretending it's some objective truth being violated. Like if I didn't own SotO and made a legendary rune for the free relic, I would be momentarily annoyed at not having all SotO relics unlocked, but I'd also get over it because: 1. kitten happens and Anet's historically one of the least greedy companies I've ever seen so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt over a minor communications error, and 2. it makes perfect sense that expansion content would require an expansion purchase (well makes perfect sense if you don't feel entitled to things you haven't payed for).

This is all just the same typical entitled Gamer bullkitten I've seen a thousand times before. People who feel they're owed content without having to actually pay for it, then leaping at whatever semantical technicality they can find in order to dress up their base entitlement as some sort of righteous crusade for consumer rights. It's just doubly ridiculous in this scenario, because the grievance is literally that you assumed you were owed even more free stuff on top of the 1400g handout they just gave everyone. Kitten's a complete joke.

This is one of the many reasons I don't like freemium models: it empowers people of a certain mindset to accuse others of acting entitled when they are basically just having expectations of any kind. Let's be clear that none of us decides or decided what payment model Anet uses and it's not a model born out of generosity or charity; the cash shop MTX and lootboxes contained within make that very clear. The Living World model of the past was not generosity or charity either; it was an incentive for existing players to stick around and a cost for not being there on those who weren't.

Furthermore, how much or little you pay for something doesn't change basic standards of transactional honesty and expectation of services rendered as described. Even a free sample at a grocery store would be a problem if it gave someone food poisoning. A 25c gumball would be a problem if it was made of cardboard, but described as a real gumball.

If you don't have standards, then what are you left with? You are left with the internal moral compass of companies as entities. And often, the profit motives override any internal moral desires from the employees themselves. So you have to be able to push back in such a way that profit motives listen, or else it's often full speed ahead on whatever feeds profits.

[Ashen.2907]

Saying that paying for something is not the same as getting it for free is not a matter of semantics, it is a matter of being honest and accurate.