Thoughts about GW3 [Merged]

[PyaKura.4895]

4 minutes ago, Helliwolf the KrimsonKnight.6523 said:

1. Making a GW3 would naturally cannibalize your GW2 playerbase[...]

2. I don't know that them making a new game will fix this issue. Having a large multi-agent game, even in single player, is a huge hit to the CPU. [...]

3. My point is that Guils Wars is not dying. And thereofore I don't see why Anet would want to be looking to replace it already. [...]

4. I think both of your points can be addressed within Guild Wars 2.[...]

1. This again depends on whether GW3 - if it happens - is an MMO or not, and if it is, we don't know if it'll run concurrently to GW2, so I'm honestly not comfortable enough to draw any conclusions here. I think the closest thing we may have on the market nowadays is retail WoW vs Classic Wow, but as far as I know, both versions of the game are faring well! To a lesser extent, FFXI is still running (in maintenance mode, admittedly) concurrently to FFXIV and it has a large enough playerbase to keep running. If GW3 is also an MMO, people will either like it and move to it with the potential for it to grow even bigger than GW2, or they'll think it's not as good as they thought and go back to GW2. Nothing wrong with that, but if Anet is interested in staying in the MMO market then we'll have to expect a new one, eventually, whether it's GW3, GW4, or something else.
2. It's a difficult issue to tackle for sure, but even when you're keeping the number of player models to the absolute minimum, the game is still choppy. Heck, even without talking about on-screen playercount, Amnytas as a zone can be somewhat of a lagfest even when nothing is happening. Now those are very specific issues and both you and I know GW2 just isn't the greatest at optimizing things, but the game is still enjoyable as you said. However the game does have plenty of issues that technically can be fixed or improved upon, but realistically cannot for a reason or another (I believe they'd have already done it, if they could!): lack of new raid wings, underwater combat, old but popular dynamic events/meta that get stuck...
3. Sorry I might have not made myself very clear: I meant to say I didn't say GW2 was dying (as far as we know) so I didn't know why you made the point that I was saying it was dying. It's getting confusing lol
4. I also absolutely love the changes they've made to the game so far and I absolutely think it's the right direction if they want to keep running GW2.

3 minutes ago, Petrified.9826 said:

Even Blizzard (Microsoft), Bethesda (Microsoft) and Square Enix are not trying to make new MMOs [...]. These companies have all they would need to make it - money, developers, reputation. 

We... don't actually know that. Any of them could be cooking up their next big multiplayer game, but I assure you at the very least they are all very intently watching what all the public MMO projects are up to. The only reason everyone here is up in arms is because GW3 has supposedly leaked, but if it didn't leak, all of us would be none the wiser and we'd all go about our day without suspecting anything. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

21 minutes ago, Petrified.9826 said:

Maybe ANet shouldn't be on the front of new MMORPGs if they struggle with money. Even Blizzard (Microsoft), Bethesda (Microsoft) and Square Enix are not trying to make new MMOs and all new titles like New World by Amazon are failing. These companies have all they would need to make it - money, developers, reputation. But no one is interested in new MMOs now until it will be better than current best games. Even games like Throne & Liberty are meh, but meh made with Unreal Engine 5. Don't worth it.

Genre is not as popular as it was 10-15 years ago and doesn't have a lot of interest from 2000+ generation, so creating a good MMO not worth it. It's only worth if you know that would be a killer game

Throne & Liberty may be meh, but I'd be more certain it's not worth playing if it were doing well in Korea.  They're a different sort of gamer over there.  Usually if they love it, we hate it!

[Azinoth.1902]

I could imagine GW3 as a remaster/remake on Unreal Engine while keeping everything, and vastly improving on its systems. But I can't imagine it without a monthly sub fee, because otherwise it wouldn't make more profit than it does today.
The brutal development cost need to be justified, as it's impossible to port GW2 to UE5 other than the 3D models, so basically they have to start over (I am a game developer btw).

[Leger.3724]

1. Combat system needs to be made more approachable. Simplicity is not a bad thing. Messi doesn't need a skillbar to be better than anyone here at soccer. I think this is probably the single biggest problem of Guild Wars 2. They move to action combat and then created and expanded a massive skillbar from 2012-2014 and then with each specialization xpac.

2. Inventory system. I'm sure selling bag slots made money, it made money off me but the loot and restricted inventory slots in early game is frustrating for a new player.

3. Crafting system sucked but so does nearly every game so...

4. Polish the open world system, it's the best foundation of an open world of any MMO and then topping it off with a new twist on WvW to make it more engaging and not an AOE zerg/boonball fest.

5. Home instances - any way to create a more customizable system? A guild home? Something more customizable and potentially visible to others? Something to consider. How about linking it to servers? A Dragonbrand citadel in the world that players can modify and shape or a Tarnished Coast castle or something. And then players can claim rooms to modify based on pve or wvw achievements or something.

I'm sure there are lots of other things to consider but I think these are some of the basics that need a look and probably a change.

 

 

Edited March 29 by Leger.3724

[thedrumchannell.2405]

I think it would be awesome if ANet merged the best concepts of GW1 and GW2 into a single unifying third game, called "Guild Wars".

[Dami.5046]

I personally think Anet's time in Tyria is done. There is no NEED for GW3. 

They peaked with Guildwars, and Gw2 has slowly become the same old story about a main character who dies, and nothing new or fresh has been done. Wizards? c'mon. Been done hundreds of times. 

I come from the Back ground of also playing Aion, which NC seems with intent to destroy every fickin' time they release it, and I can't see GW3 fairing much better. Aion is a loud proud cash cow for the vets, and that's where I see GW3.

I certainly don't want a game i have played since release, go the way Aion did due to Greed.

 

[veritech.1048]

I might be excited by Arena.net making a new MMO. Might be. With an entirely new team, of new people from outside the current company culture.

But Guild Wars 3 ain't it. They've driven this story and its world into stagnation.

[Balsa.3951]

2 hours ago, Invoker.5462 said:

Guild wars isn't really anchored to anything specific like other MMORPGS. "GUILD WARS" has a much deserved reputation and it would be foolish not to build upon the legacy set by it. GW3 may be nothing like GW2. With AI boosted development we might be talking interplanetary travel, vehicular transportation, building, a more dynamic landscape of enemies with agendas. Hell, we might see entire towns at stake instead of tiny settlements. The future of tech may make possible a more believable world where things don't seem as scripted.

Nobody really knows yet.

i imagine with ai npcs a butterfly effect where u ask one npc how's ur family doing and it leads to the whole kingdom in flame. And the player is like"huuh"

dynamic events....

Edited March 29 by Balsa.3951

[Halandir.3609]

Anet dropped Utopia for GW and went full speed on developing GW2. Now they may be directing resources towards another projects (gw3 maybe) but... So what?
Anet will probably keep GW2 running for years and they announced 1 (or 2?) expansions. Chances are that whatever GW3 will be is nothing like GW2. GW2 certainly was not a step up/replacement for GW - It was something completely different!

I hope that the next GW iteration will be successful, even if it will attract a completely new player base with different wants and needs.

This happened with GW->GW2 - I don't see why it shouldn't happen again. Some of us veterans still love and play GW. GW2 went in a very different direction and attracted a lot of people that really liked that. No problem. Also: As long as the current incarnation of Anet don't feel a need to tinker an do stupid updates like "Anniversary Celebration" GW is perfectly fine: It's still running and the players have accepted that what we see is what we get.

I hope GW3 will be successful - It will help keeping the older siblings alive, even though they are something different 🙂

[Azinoth.1902]

41 minutes ago, Halandir.3609 said:

Anet dropped Utopia for GW and went full speed on developing GW2. Now they may be directing resources towards another projects (gw3 maybe) but... So what?
Anet will probably keep GW2 running for years and they announced 1 (or 2?) expansions. Chances are that whatever GW3 will be is nothing like GW2. GW2 certainly was not a step up/replacement for GW - It was something completely different!

I hope that the next GW iteration will be successful, even if it will attract a completely new player base with different wants and needs.

This happened with GW->GW2 - I don't see why it shouldn't happen again. Some of us veterans still love and play GW. GW2 went in a very different direction and attracted a lot of people that really liked that. No problem. Also: As long as the current incarnation of Anet don't feel a need to tinker an do stupid updates like "Anniversary Celebration" GW is perfectly fine: It's still running and the players have accepted that what we see is what we get.

I hope GW3 will be successful - It will help keeping the older siblings alive, even though they are something different 🙂

If GW3 is not a direct replacement of GW2, and they can retain a healthy playerbase in GW2 to keep it playable (e.g. better scaling of metas in case of less players present etc), then I think having a different new game is fine, and I like your positive way of thinking about it.
Besides, the first thing I'd change is not to call it GW3, we know nothing and people are already worried:) And it seems, many don't trust generic PR posts anymore, even though both NC and Anet said they are not working on it, we are still talking about it like a 100% proven fact that they do 😄

[DannyPA.8647]

Hot Take: Guild Wars 3 will be a single-player RPG; while GW2 remains the MMORPG.

[Imba.9451]

GW3 will be a GW1 remaster wich get's expanded upon as a Coop-RPG/MMO-Lite.

You heard it here first.

[Batalix.2873]

3 hours ago, Petrified.9826 said:

Keeping up with who? Genre is barely alive with top 4 games being WoW (2004), FF14 (2013 for second release), GW2 (2012) and TESO (2014). Other games are just not that good, don't have such online or just some korean pay to win games which often not worth attention. 

Current generation of consoles already showed everyone that it's not worth it. Difference between PS4 and PS5 games are not groundbreaking and almost all of PS games from this gen still runs on PS4 except few games. That and MMORPG best games at the moment show that new games just for new technologies are not really worth it. At least for 2024 technologies. 

Keeping up with online games generally.

The very fact that GW2 is still a very traditionally structured keyboard-and-mouse MMO is why it will not reliably sustain revenue, and certainly never top charts, in the current paradigm. The only two MMOs with any degree of widespread commercial success are WoW and FFXIV. WoW has survived largely due to being the oldest and most established experience, as well as being backed by what used to be gaming's largest megacorp. And FFXIV has survived because it is just a massive panderfest to franchise fans. Both of these are doing well in spite of their oldschool MMO structures, not because of them.

In a world where God of War is now Dark Souls, Final Fantasy XVI is now Devil May Cry, and Zelda is now an open world survivalist physics simulator, all franchises have been feeling the pressure to move further toward action combat as their main draw.

Not to mention, the online gamer sphere is massively dominated by action combat and FPS's, largely PvP and solo story experiences: Overwatch, Destiny, Fortnite, DotA, Smite. These games hit a better balance of development resources versus replayability, and allow players much more control over their experiences than open world and instanced team coordination.

Sure, GW2 might always have niche nostalgic appeal, but that won't sustain ANet as a developer. If it wants to actually compete in the market, it like every other developer will need to move away from traditional MMO structures and into solo/PvP action content. That is what jives with mass casual gamer markets these days.

This isn't even a graphics issue, although I think that comparison is disingenuous when GW2 looks like a PS2-era title. It's that the entire MMO genre is too slow and clunky and grindy for the current generation, in the same way that traditional turn-based RPGs are just too archaically slow to have much appeal outside of nostalgia.

[Helliwolf the KrimsonKnight.6523]

3 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Keeping up with online games generally.

The very fact that GW2 is still a very traditionally structured keyboard-and-mouse MMO is why it will not reliably sustain revenue, and certainly never top charts, in the current paradigm. The only two MMOs with any degree of widespread commercial success are WoW and FFXIV. WoW has survived largely due to being the oldest and most established experience, as well as being backed by what used to be gaming's largest megacorp. And FFXIV has survived because it is just a massive panderfest to franchise fans. Both of these are doing well in spite of their oldschool MMO structures, not because of them.

In a world where God of War is now Dark Souls, Final Fantasy XVI is now Devil May Cry, and Zelda is now an open world survivalist physics simulator, all franchises have been feeling the pressure to move further toward action combat as their main draw.

Not to mention, the online gamer sphere is massively dominated by action combat and FPS's, largely PvP and solo story experiences: Overwatch, Destiny, Fortnite, DotA, Smite. These games hit a better balance of development resources versus replayability, and allow players much more control over their experiences than open world and instanced team coordination.

Sure, GW2 might always have niche nostalgic appeal, but that won't sustain ANet as a developer. If it wants to actually compete in the market, it like every other developer will need to move away from traditional MMO structures and into solo/PvP action content. That is what jives with mass casual gamer markets these days.

This isn't even a graphics issue, although I think that comparison is disingenuous when GW2 looks like a PS2-era title. It's that the entire MMO genre is too slow and clunky and grindy for the current generation, in the same way that traditional turn-based RPGs are just too archaically slow to have much appeal outside of nostalgia.

Maybe MMO as a genre is out of favor. Tera tried the whole action RPG. And it had everything. Amazing over-the-top combat, incredible visuals, and all of the pandering you'd want. But it still died. Which is a shame, because the combat really was unlike any other MMO I've played. GW2 is perhaps the closest, especially if you play Vindicator.

[Nightbringer Tenchi.5794]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:25 AM, tzaeru.3742 said:

So if the news hadn't yet hit you, it seems that the chairman of NCSoft, in a shareholder interview, confirmed that is GW3 is greenlit. The original news, in Korean, use e.g. Google Translate: https://m.inven.co.kr/webzine/wznews.php?idx=294408

Making a sequel for a MMO is always a bit risky. You might end up splitting the playerbase, and the whole franchise can significantly suffer from that - take, for example, EverQuest. It's also possible some people will not want to spend more money into GW2, if they feel that GW2 is going to go away and get replaced by GW3.

On the other hand, GW2's codebase by now is prolly pretty hefty and hard to expand. It's also difficult to do a significant graphics overhaul with the existing game. Models and textures would eventually need to be redone, etc.

It's also not confirmed, of course, that GW3 will even be a replacement for GW2. Maybe it will do a reverse Warcraft and be a RTS. Who knows.

I personally still see a lot of potential in GW2 and hope that this doesn't mean that GW2 gets less attention. There are also ways to mitigate e.g. consumer fears of spending money to a game that is going to be replaced. You can, for example, give a fraction of the GW2 account value back for GW3, etc.

Thoughts?

It's an NCSoft shareholder interview, NCSoft owns other Fantasy MMO ips. Do ya'll remember Aion? Aion 2 has been confirmed in development. Some of you might know about Blade & Soul, Blade & Soul 2 came out in 2021 and there's 2 more Blade & Soul games confirmed. So I find these rumors of Guild Wars 3 being confirmed in development to be highly dubious when there's enough info to create substantial doubt about the claim.

[hellsmachine.4085]

12 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'd rather have a new game based on the same IP than a remake of the same game with updated graphics.  It can't be a revelation that the rewards you earn in an MMO are temporary, lasting only until either you stop playing or the game shuts down.  I can understand why an impending release of another game you intend to play exclusive to this one would be demotivating, but this is still years off and may not happen at all.  Why should that have any impact at this point?

I will buy it and play it either way, but many people that have invested a lot of money into the GW2 cash shop feel short changed. If buyer confidence drops and people stop spending money we will have neither GW2 nor GW3. MMOs are extremely expensive to both make and maintain.

[hellsmachine.4085]

12 hours ago, Sunyavadin.7962 said:

There's literally nothing to really talk about here. This kind of throwaway statement is fairly common in these kinds of investor meetings. He said a thing to get a Korean investor asking about Nepotism in hires off his back, by justifying that Arenanet has a major IP nobody in Korea has heard of which does well in the US and Europe, and that plans have been knocking around since 2017 to maybe do another sequel.
NCSoft clarified this much after the meeting. There's a proposal on the table to potentially do a GW3, but it's not been approved. And probably won't until they think it's suitably profitable for the necessary investment.

"[in] a quote from NCsoft issued after the meeting; NCsoft says, “The Guild Wars 3 project is in the review stage and the start of development has not been finalized.”

 

You saying he lied? You know that lying to investors is a crime right? Some have been jailed for it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

11 minutes ago, hellsmachine.4085 said:

I will buy it and play it either way, but many people that have invested a lot of money into the GW2 cash shop feel short changed. If buyer confidence drops and people stop spending money we will have neither GW2 nor GW3. MMOs are extremely expensive to both make and maintain.

Maybe I missed it as I haven't been following the discussion.  Was there a solution to this problem?  Are you saying people should be compensated for their cash purchases in some way when GW3 comes around?

[hellsmachine.4085]

17 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Maybe I missed it as I haven't been following the discussion.  Was there a solution to this problem?  Are you saying people should be compensated for their cash purchases in some way when GW3 comes around?

I'm saying anet has to do something to restore buyer confidence after this whole fiasco or they risk going broke.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 minutes ago, hellsmachine.4085 said:

I'm saying anet has to do something to restore buyer confidence after this whole fiasco or they risk going broke.

Announcing that they're planning another game in the series years from now is going to make them go broke?  Okay, I am just not understanding.  I have spent a ton of money in the cash shop over the years.  I never once thought it was forever or expected compensation of any kind should the game close down or move on to a newer game in the series.  I think you're being ridiculous.

[hellsmachine.4085]

Just now, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Announcing that they're planning another game in the series years from now is going to make them go broke?  Okay, I am just not understanding.  I have spent a ton of money in the cash shop over the years.  I never once thought it was forever or expected compensation of any kind should the game close down or move on to a newer game in the series.  I think you're being ridiculous.

Are you unaware of how many MMOs have had to shut down because they weren't making money? If you can't understand why less people will want to spend money in the cash shop on a game that is effectively being abandoned, then there's not much I can say to help your ability to understand. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 minutes ago, hellsmachine.4085 said:

Are you unaware of how many MMOs have had to shut down because they weren't making money? If you can't understand why less people will want to spend money in the cash shop on a game that is effectively being abandoned, then there's not much I can say to help your ability to understand. 

It's years out if it happens at all.  Are you really suggesting that a significant portion of players are maladaptive enough that they would only purchase items to enjoy if they were able to fool themselves into believing that those items will last forever?  Like really?  You wouldn't purchase a convenience item or a cosmetic you like now because some day years from now there will be a GW3?  Again, I don't understand.  It doesn't make sense.

[hellsmachine.4085]

24 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's years out if it happens at all.  Are you really suggesting that a significant portion of players are maladaptive enough that they would only purchase items to enjoy if they were able to fool themselves into believing that those items will last forever?  Like really?  You wouldn't purchase a convenience item or a cosmetic you like now because some day years from now there will be a GW3?  Again, I don't understand.  It doesn't make sense.

Maybe not enough to go broke, but enough to have a significantly negative impact on the game. It happened to EverQuest, many people quit.

Point is, they should do something about it, because the last thing this game needs is less players or less revenue. 

[kiroho.4738]

31 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's years out if it happens at all.

Look around in this thread and other forums.

Even with so few informations and nothing (officially) confirmed at all, so many people act like GW3 will be released next week, or more precisely like GW2 gets shut down tomorrow.

I saw posts about people thinking it makes no sense anymore to play GW2, people that don't want to buy anything from the gemshop anymore, people that think everything they did in GW2 is meaningless now and so on.

What do you think will happen, if there is an actual official confirmation/announcement?

Edited March 30 by kiroho.4738

[hellsmachine.4085]

1 minute ago, kiroho.4738 said:

Look around in this thread and other forums.

Even with so few informations and nothing (officially) confirmed at all, so many people act like GW3 will be released next week, or more precisely like GW2 gets shut down tomorrow.

I saw posts about people thinking it makes no sense anymore to play GW2, people that don't want to buy anything from the gemshop anymore, people that think everything they did in GW2 is meaningless now and so on.

What do you think will happen, if there is an actual official confirmation/announcement?

Exactly, it doesn't need to make sense. It needs to make dollars!