Explanation of the changes in WvW

[Damian.8127]

A hypothetical organised blob seeks some fun. Enemy wont fight open field as they are outnumbered, outgunned or lack a commander.

To call more enemies or balance the fight, the blob attacks a Keep.

Inside, the scout, panic pulls all the tactics at the wrong time... Now you have some unrepairable walls, where randoms will spend the limited supply to absolutely no effect.

Disabling to buy time isn't possible anymore, so the squad that hopped map to defend (only half make it of course because the cloud and afk wall runners are filling the border) are now forced to engage, disorganised with little to no advantage and less options. Unable to even contest properly due to a small circle with no LoS, the keep flips and defenders die, scattered over two borders with no means to fight, some log out. The blob has completed its unsatisfying roam around the map and no longer has anywhere left to go; with queued borders, they wonder around until they get bored and log out. Perhaps an EWP goes off... someone is attacking their keep?! best hop... oh no, only half got it, might be rough... 

The advantage should BE with the defence. The clues in the name - KEEP. Some of the best fights revolve around the contesting and it gives roamers and unorganised clouds the chance to be effective. This makes for a more enjoyable experience all round. Maybe nerf SM  buff, but not every buff.

The sad part is someone sat down, maybe a team even, did some research and went "gosh, what would make WvW better? you know what our players would LOVE?? they think they want the alpha game style lag to stop so they could use more than 1 button; or maybe the model fixes to keeps, towers and the floor to stop cheaters flipping keeps and towers with no counter; - but no, I got one better; ALL RESOURCES INTO THIS GUYS! lets move the syths into the circles and make them smaller. Oh and golems, we dont, ever want camps to tier up again, so lets stop making defending them a possibility while we're at it".

Id LOVE to see a video explaining the thought process - even just a post. How is this better than before it was all fiddled with and from whos perspective? moving the syths into the small circle to complete the pve experience, because god knows its barely worth trying to defend.

In a rough matchup, for ALL servers perspectives, defensive advantage may be the only way to have some interesting fights. Removing the defensive equalisers, will result in more one sided matchups, less gameplay and spawn camping becoming a much more common reality, pushing players out of wvw.

Edited April 17 by Damian.8127

[Wolfofdivinity.6251]

Anet doesn't concern itself with the thoughts of WvW sheep. Buy gems. Pre-order GW3 and be happy you have the privilege of buying their gems!!

[XenesisII.1540]

Gotta be another inside joke by anet to think moving synths to inner capture circles is somehow some mind blowing move to make captures exciting.

[Sonderm.4639]

/tinfoilhaton The guy working on WvW got a memo from the suits to improve revenue earned from WvW players. So he tilts the balance in favor of the bigger team and hopes that more people buy gems to bandwagon to the bigger servers. /tinfoilhatoff

[foxof.8752]

9 minutes ago, Sonderm.4639 said:

/tinfoilhaton The guy working on WvW got a memo from the suits to improve revenue earned from WvW players. So he tilts the balance in favor of the bigger team and hopes that more people buy gems to bandwagon to the bigger servers. /tinfoilhatoff

Did he got the memo that Alliance will remove their main gem income from WVW? 
How will he come out a plan to make player to spend gem on Alliance guild? 
Stay tune!

[Sonderm.4639]

12 minutes ago, foxof.8752 said:

Did he got the memo that Alliance will remove their main gem income from WVW? 
How will he come out a plan to make player to spend gem on Alliance guild? 
Stay tune!

That is why alliances has been put on hold. 95% chance that you will be able to transfer between teams for a fee after world restructuring goes live 😛

[foxof.8752]

14 minutes ago, Sonderm.4639 said:

That is why alliances has been put on hold. 95% chance that you will be able to transfer between teams for a fee after world restructuring goes live 😛

It is totally free, "Teams" is now as grouping of normal guilds, which players are free to leave and join to another alliance guilds = no more transfer fee.
Unlikely they allow you or big guild to change Team with gem after alliance match started that will disrupts the so call balanced Alliance match. 

But wait, do you heard few weeks ago they said they heard wvw players requesting 6th guild slot for wvw? Yea, they might make the 6th WVW alliance guild like world transfer that require gem, if a wvwer want to change Alliance WVW guild, you will need to pay gem to join.  😏

Edited April 17 by foxof.8752

[One more for the road.8950]

You guys seem to confuse "Alliance" and "World Restructure" again. 

[Zok.4956]

7 hours ago, foxof.8752 said:

Did he got the memo that Alliance will remove their main gem income from WVW? 
How will he come out a plan to make player to spend gem on Alliance guild? 
Stay tune!

Anet once mentioned that they are thinking about allowing server transfers again in WR after the team/server reassignments.

7 hours ago, foxof.8752 said:

Yea, they might make the 6th WVW alliance guild like world transfer that require gem, if a wvwer want to change Alliance WVW guild, you will need to pay gem to join.

Or they simply allow server/team transfers (as before). And then entire guilds change a server/team again. At the very beginning, Anet didn't want to allow server/team transfers for GEMs at WR/alliances. It sounds slightly different now.

 

[Cael.3960]

Let me see if I'm reading this right. 

A poorly organized half-map of casuals, wall-runners and inexperienced players sees an approaching blob. For clarification, I'm assuming a 'blob' is anything more than 20 players with some kind of leadership, where'as 'map que' is 35+ because guessing numbers is a significant challenge for most people who can't read enemy groups very well. 

The enemy group is organized, probably with comped squads and voice coms, isolates a vulnerable gate or wall and throws down siege. They clear nearby fixed-siege, 'heat up' the walls with aoe and pulls to keep defenders from disabling or destroying siege while their full-spec'd players use the available siege to greatest effect. 

The scout, who can't tell the difference between a tactivator and a resource node, pulls everything once he sees a wall go down (and probably links the EWP in map chat instead of team, thereby wasting valuable seconds while someone with more experience finishes the job for him), succeeding in attracting a competent group which is immediately que'd out by the rush of roamers and milia members knowing there's defence content available. 

The 'blob' passes through the outer wall and isolates a vulnerable gate or wall and throws down more siege. Because there's a defence presence, they bubble and use anti-projectile hate/pulls to discourage individual defenders from doing insignificant damage to their group from nearby walls, surrounding their siege to ensure it's not disabled and to take advantage of Iron Will should a coordinated response rush their position. 

Someone who knows what they're doing throws down defensive siege on upper levels or behind walls, knowing these locations are safe and can pressure the entire enemy group while they sit on siege. Also they tag EVERYTHING with their siege volleys, and secure in the knowledge that if any attacker dies they'll get bags and defense rewards they have absolutely zero reason to do anything else in the fight. A few roamers who also know what they're doing join them, one even stealths and hops the wall/exits a portal to disable enemy siege once they see the bubbles dissipate. He's the hero we need, but unfortunately what we have is 30+ idiots, 5-10 wall runners sitting at spawn, and 10 more competent veterans who are hopelessly wrangling the morons on the map to mount an effective defence. Someone calls for a tag or a guild as the situation becomes desperate. 

The 'blob' knocks down another hole and the keep is wide open to the lord. The idiots try to repair a wall, failing to realize they only brought the 3 supply left over from the last evening they built a catapult at home tower and there isn't enough to tap it shut. They empty their supply and rush to the lord room where they try to range 30x their number and are instantly nuked. The slightly smarter ones are eles who vapor form to safety and once fully recovered, proceed to do the exact same thing over and over again. 

Meanwhile the half-squad who managed to get on map to defend the objective tries to form up for a push. All they need to do is down/kill half their number to snowball enough attrition to keep the objective. They can duck out at any time to recover numbers from the runbacks and the handful of solo veterans who refuse to join squad but insist on standing in the middle of their group for the push. Ques are in the 20s, no more help is coming. The lord is down to 10% and there isn't enough siege weapons turned on the lord room to pressure the 'blob' to leave. Those who are on the map but not in squad are peppering the 'blob' with everything on their skill bar, getting big numbers and no downs. No one is running supply to fix the walls because there's defence content and the moment someone leaves they're outnumbered and the objective is going to flip. 

They die and keep running back. Forgetting to grab supply along the way because it's more important to join the fight than to think tanctically. The run back is short, they can die over and over if they have to so long as they grind out the win. 

The blob has killed the Lord and is now sitting on it's corpse to prevent it from being rez'd. Anti-projectile hate surrounds their group and they watch the glass-rangers off themselves with reflects. Amazingly one of those competent veterans (probably a berserker because they know the subtle benefits of their class with select keep tactics) has grabbed the dragon banner and is absolutely PUMPING damage into that blob. He's targeted for pulls but maintains enough defiance to back off before they hunt him down and eliminate the only real threat outside the guild with a half-squad who's got as much on tag as he can and now pushes in. 

They die. Because they're outnumbered on the push and can't sustain against bigger numbers. The idiots ringing the lord room pillars and walls stay exactly where they are and launch aoe's into the fight, failing to single out priority targets or secure downs because the biggest concentration of targets is obviously where the damage goes. The defending squad is wiped and tries to run back to regroup. The militia/veterans who remain dance around the columns to stave off the capture circle. But most of them don't bring self-stability or know that aoe can wrap around columns and so they're downed. The 'blob' expands within the circle to push out contestants and the objective starts ticking. 

Someone managed to repair one of the walls. Two guys are destroying the enemy siege while the keep flips. Another scout announces that the other server is also attacking. He's ignored, except by the ones who were wall-running at spawn and finally realized there was content only to jump into the keep and become fixated on the enemy zerg that's not in the lord room. They start building siege to fight them. 

The capture circle keeps ticking. Slowly, because some of the defenders actually know what they're doing. Then quickly because those guys are now dead. The casuals who haven't been running into death to contest are running out because they don't want to be a trapped bag (they've already died a couple times so they can't give loot or xp, but they don't know that). The objective quickly flips and the defenders run out. Fortunately, the OTHER enemy 'blob' managed to push in before the flip and has become trapped inside. They see the defenders running out and collect a few corpses (no bags, alas) and have to decide to stay and fight or also leave. Someone gets a look at the lord room and sees that there's roughly the same number they have. 

They fight, because this group saw the OJ's and chose to rush toward them instead of taking an undefended objective someplace else. It's a quality fight, though the first 'blob' has lost cooldowns and has broken parties due to attrition. It's a toss-up between which of them wins. 

There's an arrowcart that hasn't been destroyed and one of the defenders is STILL on it. Bags for days. Until someone realizes who the mosquito is and a few people swat him. Oh well, he's got his wiggle chest. Time to call out the idiots in chat for failing to mount a proper defence. 

The two 'blob's fight and one of them wins. Maybe it's the first one, maybe it's the second one. In any case, it's a T-nothing keep and neither of them decides to stay.

5 minutes later there's swords on the keep. A minute later there's oj's in the lord room. Somewhere else on the map there's another set of Oj's, looks like the two 'blobs' are fighting again at a tower. 5 map defenders, uncontested, have retaken their keep. 

The half-squad that transferred to defend the keep is bitched out for failing to defend it and has left the map so they can rejoin those who couldn't get in because of the que. They decide it's best just to do their own thing because half a squad having a good time is unfair to the other half. They pick a map, stay there, and ignore future callouts; if there was a que then it means there are enough defenders to manage on their own. 

Team/map chat gets hostile and abuse is heaped upon whatever tag that showed up because now it's clear THEY were the problem. And by staying on a map instead of responding to future callouts on other maps it's clear they're making the problem even worse. 

The map is still qued. No, it's a false que. Now it's outnumbered. Hunh. The tag now has a que on his map instead. 

The two 'blob's fight each other until one side is the clear winner (or one of them gets bored) and one side logs off. Surprisingly, most of the map is defence colors again. Those 5 guys who flipped the keep have been busy while being ignored. In fact, the keep is T1 and in another 10-15 minutes it'll be T2. One blob is gone but the other is still around. They spend 15-20 minutes retaking their third and then make a push toward the now T2 keep. 

The cycle repeats. 

And maybe it repeats a second time before a friendly tag with most of a squad shows up to respond and manages to get most, if not all, of their coordinated group on the map. With fewer ineffective players on their side, they manage to hold the T2 keep. With content on the map they stick around. The solo players, recognizing that there's an anchor of stability on their map don't dare leave for a different one. They flip camps and towers and rally to the OJ's on tired objectives because there's a rock they can orbit for protection while collecting bags and defender rewards. It's the good life. 

Until another map needs help and that tag swaps bl's to respond. Half their squad is que'd out. 

The cycle repeats. 

[Damian.8127]

Just tested the changes. Lack of defence during primetime resulted in farming the enemy and taking all their keeps until they logged out. Toyed with the idea of levelling up their garri but no fun. They had no ability to hold us whatsoever.  Give them their buffs back for the love of mercy...

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Cael.3960 said:

A few roamers who also know what they're doing join them, one even stealths and hops the wall/exits a portal to disable enemy siege once they see the bubbles dissipate. He's the hero we need, but unfortunately what we have is 30+ idiots, 5-10 wall runners sitting at spawn, and 10 more competent veterans who are hopelessly wrangling the morons on the map to mount an effective defence. Someone calls for a tag or a guild as the situation becomes desperate. 

Sounds very familiar.

Though on our server we have twice the idiots and wall runners and about half the competent veterans on a good day.

I mean I understand not everyone wants to be a tryhard, but I don't understand how they can enjoy WvW being so amazingly useless all the time. Must be some serious copium tanks at play here.

  

1 hour ago, Cael.3960 said:

Meanwhile the half-squad who managed to get on map to defend the objective tries to form up for a push. All they need to do is down/kill half their number to snowball enough attrition to keep the objective. They can duck out at any time to recover numbers from the runbacks and the handful of solo veterans who refuse to join squad but insist on standing in the middle of their group for the push. Ques are in the 20s, no more help is coming.

  

1 hour ago, Cael.3960 said:

The half-squad that transferred to defend the keep is bitched out for failing to defend it and has left the map so they can rejoin those who couldn't get in because of the que. They decide it's best just to do their own thing because half a squad having a good time is unfair to the other half. They pick a map, stay there, and ignore future callouts; if there was a que then it means there are enough defenders to manage on their own. 

Lol. That too. Our group tried to tag up to defend the garrison, nobody would join, so focused on other objectives and groups our size. People started complaining even though they're the ones clogging up the queue and unable to even fire cannons. Ended up just doing the JPs because nobody was taking anything seriously.

Edited April 17 by ArchonWing.9480

[Arbiterjim.1472]

You put into words exactly what everyone is feeling.  Thank you

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 4/17/2024 at 9:03 AM, Damian.8127 said:

A hypothetical organised blob seeks some fun. Enemy wont fight open field as they are outnumbered, outgunned or lack a commander.

To call more enemies or balance the fight, the blob attacks a Keep.

Inside, the scout, panic pulls all the tactics at the wrong time... Now you have some unrepairable walls, where randoms will spend the limited supply to absolutely no effect.

Disabling to buy time isn't possible anymore, so the squad that hopped map to defend (only half make it of course because the cloud and afk wall runners are filling the border) are now forced to engage, disorganised with little to no advantage and less options. Unable to even contest properly due to a small circle with no LoS, the keep flips and defenders die, scattered over two borders with no means to fight, some log out. The blob has completed its unsatisfying roam around the map and no longer has anywhere left to go; with queued borders, they wonder around until they get bored and log out. Perhaps an EWP goes off... someone is attacking their keep?! best hop... oh no, only half got it, might be rough... 

The advantage should BE with the defence. The clues in the name - KEEP. Some of the best fights revolve around the contesting and it gives roamers and unorganised clouds the chance to be effective. This makes for a more enjoyable experience all round. Maybe nerf SM  buff, but not every buff.

The sad part is someone sat down, maybe a team even, did some research and went "gosh, what would make WvW better? you know what our players would LOVE?? they think they want the alpha game style lag to stop so they could use more than 1 button; or maybe the model fixes to keeps, towers and the floor to stop cheaters flipping keeps and towers with no counter; - but no, I got one better; ALL RESOURCES INTO THIS GUYS! lets move the syths into the circles and make them smaller. Oh and golems, we dont, ever want camps to tier up again, so lets stop making defending them a possibility while we're at it".

Id LOVE to see a video explaining the thought process - even just a post. How is this better than before it was all fiddled with and from whos perspective? moving the syths into the small circle to complete the pve experience, because god knows its barely worth trying to defend.

In a rough matchup, for ALL servers perspectives, defensive advantage may be the only way to have some interesting fights. Removing the defensive equalisers, will result in more one sided matchups, less gameplay and spawn camping becoming a much more common reality, pushing players out of wvw.

If you search this forum, both the smaller contest rings and golem not able to contest ring is by request of some players not long ago. Go search. I was against it, it sounded to me than and now someone was lazy.

I also told you Anet does read suggestions, but which one they choose to implement is very hard to tell 

In the future, we will have camp guild, guild that specialise in holding camps

For Anet, since you make this change, do this too, longest time a camp/structure is held over the duration of the match up. Gets a new title, gets special reward chest every tick the objective is held for the guild that holds it and individual rewards for players.

 

Edited April 18 by SweetPotato.7456

[Chaba.5410]

5 hours ago, Cael.3960 said:

Let me see if I'm reading this right. 

A poorly organized half-map of casuals, wall-runners and inexperienced players sees an approaching blob. For clarification, I'm assuming a 'blob' is anything more than 20 players with some kind of leadership, where'as 'map que' is 35+ because guessing numbers is a significant challenge for most people who can't read enemy groups very well. 

The enemy group is organized, probably with comped squads and voice coms, isolates a vulnerable gate or wall and throws down siege. They clear nearby fixed-siege, 'heat up' the walls with aoe and pulls to keep defenders from disabling or destroying siege while their full-spec'd players use the available siege to greatest effect. 

The scout, who can't tell the difference between a tactivator and a resource node, pulls everything once he sees a wall go down (and probably links the EWP in map chat instead of team, thereby wasting valuable seconds while someone with more experience finishes the job for him), succeeding in attracting a competent group which is immediately que'd out by the rush of roamers and milia members knowing there's defence content available. 

The 'blob' passes through the outer wall and isolates a vulnerable gate or wall and throws down more siege. Because there's a defence presence, they bubble and use anti-projectile hate/pulls to discourage individual defenders from doing insignificant damage to their group from nearby walls, surrounding their siege to ensure it's not disabled and to take advantage of Iron Will should a coordinated response rush their position. 

Someone who knows what they're doing throws down defensive siege on upper levels or behind walls, knowing these locations are safe and can pressure the entire enemy group while they sit on siege. Also they tag EVERYTHING with their siege volleys, and secure in the knowledge that if any attacker dies they'll get bags and defense rewards they have absolutely zero reason to do anything else in the fight. A few roamers who also know what they're doing join them, one even stealths and hops the wall/exits a portal to disable enemy siege once they see the bubbles dissipate. He's the hero we need, but unfortunately what we have is 30+ idiots, 5-10 wall runners sitting at spawn, and 10 more competent veterans who are hopelessly wrangling the morons on the map to mount an effective defence. Someone calls for a tag or a guild as the situation becomes desperate. 

The 'blob' knocks down another hole and the keep is wide open to the lord. The idiots try to repair a wall, failing to realize they only brought the 3 supply left over from the last evening they built a catapult at home tower and there isn't enough to tap it shut. They empty their supply and rush to the lord room where they try to range 30x their number and are instantly nuked. The slightly smarter ones are eles who vapor form to safety and once fully recovered, proceed to do the exact same thing over and over again. 

Meanwhile the half-squad who managed to get on map to defend the objective tries to form up for a push. All they need to do is down/kill half their number to snowball enough attrition to keep the objective. They can duck out at any time to recover numbers from the runbacks and the handful of solo veterans who refuse to join squad but insist on standing in the middle of their group for the push. Ques are in the 20s, no more help is coming. The lord is down to 10% and there isn't enough siege weapons turned on the lord room to pressure the 'blob' to leave. Those who are on the map but not in squad are peppering the 'blob' with everything on their skill bar, getting big numbers and no downs. No one is running supply to fix the walls because there's defence content and the moment someone leaves they're outnumbered and the objective is going to flip. 

They die and keep running back. Forgetting to grab supply along the way because it's more important to join the fight than to think tanctically. The run back is short, they can die over and over if they have to so long as they grind out the win. 

The blob has killed the Lord and is now sitting on it's corpse to prevent it from being rez'd. Anti-projectile hate surrounds their group and they watch the glass-rangers off themselves with reflects. Amazingly one of those competent veterans (probably a berserker because they know the subtle benefits of their class with select keep tactics) has grabbed the dragon banner and is absolutely PUMPING damage into that blob. He's targeted for pulls but maintains enough defiance to back off before they hunt him down and eliminate the only real threat outside the guild with a half-squad who's got as much on tag as he can and now pushes in. 

They die. Because they're outnumbered on the push and can't sustain against bigger numbers. The idiots ringing the lord room pillars and walls stay exactly where they are and launch aoe's into the fight, failing to single out priority targets or secure downs because the biggest concentration of targets is obviously where the damage goes. The defending squad is wiped and tries to run back to regroup. The militia/veterans who remain dance around the columns to stave off the capture circle. But most of them don't bring self-stability or know that aoe can wrap around columns and so they're downed. The 'blob' expands within the circle to push out contestants and the objective starts ticking. 

Someone managed to repair one of the walls. Two guys are destroying the enemy siege while the keep flips. Another scout announces that the other server is also attacking. He's ignored, except by the ones who were wall-running at spawn and finally realized there was content only to jump into the keep and become fixated on the enemy zerg that's not in the lord room. They start building siege to fight them. 

The capture circle keeps ticking. Slowly, because some of the defenders actually know what they're doing. Then quickly because those guys are now dead. The casuals who haven't been running into death to contest are running out because they don't want to be a trapped bag (they've already died a couple times so they can't give loot or xp, but they don't know that). The objective quickly flips and the defenders run out. Fortunately, the OTHER enemy 'blob' managed to push in before the flip and has become trapped inside. They see the defenders running out and collect a few corpses (no bags, alas) and have to decide to stay and fight or also leave. Someone gets a look at the lord room and sees that there's roughly the same number they have. 

They fight, because this group saw the OJ's and chose to rush toward them instead of taking an undefended objective someplace else. It's a quality fight, though the first 'blob' has lost cooldowns and has broken parties due to attrition. It's a toss-up between which of them wins. 

There's an arrowcart that hasn't been destroyed and one of the defenders is STILL on it. Bags for days. Until someone realizes who the mosquito is and a few people swat him. Oh well, he's got his wiggle chest. Time to call out the idiots in chat for failing to mount a proper defence. 

The two 'blob's fight and one of them wins. Maybe it's the first one, maybe it's the second one. In any case, it's a T-nothing keep and neither of them decides to stay.

5 minutes later there's swords on the keep. A minute later there's oj's in the lord room. Somewhere else on the map there's another set of Oj's, looks like the two 'blobs' are fighting again at a tower. 5 map defenders, uncontested, have retaken their keep. 

The half-squad that transferred to defend the keep is bitched out for failing to defend it and has left the map so they can rejoin those who couldn't get in because of the que. They decide it's best just to do their own thing because half a squad having a good time is unfair to the other half. They pick a map, stay there, and ignore future callouts; if there was a que then it means there are enough defenders to manage on their own. 

Team/map chat gets hostile and abuse is heaped upon whatever tag that showed up because now it's clear THEY were the problem. And by staying on a map instead of responding to future callouts on other maps it's clear they're making the problem even worse. 

The map is still qued. No, it's a false que. Now it's outnumbered. Hunh. The tag now has a que on his map instead. 

The two 'blob's fight each other until one side is the clear winner (or one of them gets bored) and one side logs off. Surprisingly, most of the map is defence colors again. Those 5 guys who flipped the keep have been busy while being ignored. In fact, the keep is T1 and in another 10-15 minutes it'll be T2. One blob is gone but the other is still around. They spend 15-20 minutes retaking their third and then make a push toward the now T2 keep. 

The cycle repeats. 

And maybe it repeats a second time before a friendly tag with most of a squad shows up to respond and manages to get most, if not all, of their coordinated group on the map. With fewer ineffective players on their side, they manage to hold the T2 keep. With content on the map they stick around. The solo players, recognizing that there's an anchor of stability on their map don't dare leave for a different one. They flip camps and towers and rally to the OJ's on tired objectives because there's a rock they can orbit for protection while collecting bags and defender rewards. It's the good life. 

Until another map needs help and that tag swaps bl's to respond. Half their squad is que'd out. 

The cycle repeats. 

Another repeating cycle:  someone at the server meeting suggests that the pugs need training (yet again, same suggestion as last week, no one volunteers).  Another pipes up questioning which obstacles need to be removed to get pugs joining voice comms.  Yet another tries to put together builds for pugs to run and advertise what's effective.  Others decide that the actual solution is to get toxic in chat to chase the casuals away.

Edited April 18 by Chaba.5410

[bq pd.2148]

36 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

For Anet, since you make this change, do this too, longest time a camp/structure is held over the duration of the match up. Gets a new title, gets special reward chest every tick the objective is held for the guild that holds it and individual rewards for players.

 

'garri inc [..]'  
'not my guild'

[Chaba.5410]

44 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If you search this forum, both the smaller contest rings and golem not able to contest ring is by request of some players not long ago.

Please, do share which posts you found.  xD

[MysteryDude.1572]

6 hours ago, Cael.3960 said:

Let me see if I'm reading this right. 

A poorly organized half-map of casuals, wall-runners and inexperienced players sees an approaching blob. For clarification, I'm assuming a 'blob' is anything more than 20 players with some kind of leadership, where'as 'map que' is 35+ because guessing numbers is a significant challenge for most people who can't read enemy groups very well. 

The enemy group is organized, probably with comped squads and voice coms, isolates a vulnerable gate or wall and throws down siege. They clear nearby fixed-siege, 'heat up' the walls with aoe and pulls to keep defenders from disabling or destroying siege while their full-spec'd players use the available siege to greatest effect. 

The scout, who can't tell the difference between a tactivator and a resource node, pulls everything once he sees a wall go down (and probably links the EWP in map chat instead of team, thereby wasting valuable seconds while someone with more experience finishes the job for him), succeeding in attracting a competent group which is immediately que'd out by the rush of roamers and milia members knowing there's defence content available. 

The 'blob' passes through the outer wall and isolates a vulnerable gate or wall and throws down more siege. Because there's a defence presence, they bubble and use anti-projectile hate/pulls to discourage individual defenders from doing insignificant damage to their group from nearby walls, surrounding their siege to ensure it's not disabled and to take advantage of Iron Will should a coordinated response rush their position. 

Someone who knows what they're doing throws down defensive siege on upper levels or behind walls, knowing these locations are safe and can pressure the entire enemy group while they sit on siege. Also they tag EVERYTHING with their siege volleys, and secure in the knowledge that if any attacker dies they'll get bags and defense rewards they have absolutely zero reason to do anything else in the fight. A few roamers who also know what they're doing join them, one even stealths and hops the wall/exits a portal to disable enemy siege once they see the bubbles dissipate. He's the hero we need, but unfortunately what we have is 30+ idiots, 5-10 wall runners sitting at spawn, and 10 more competent veterans who are hopelessly wrangling the morons on the map to mount an effective defence. Someone calls for a tag or a guild as the situation becomes desperate. 

The 'blob' knocks down another hole and the keep is wide open to the lord. The idiots try to repair a wall, failing to realize they only brought the 3 supply left over from the last evening they built a catapult at home tower and there isn't enough to tap it shut. They empty their supply and rush to the lord room where they try to range 30x their number and are instantly nuked. The slightly smarter ones are eles who vapor form to safety and once fully recovered, proceed to do the exact same thing over and over again. 

Meanwhile the half-squad who managed to get on map to defend the objective tries to form up for a push. All they need to do is down/kill half their number to snowball enough attrition to keep the objective. They can duck out at any time to recover numbers from the runbacks and the handful of solo veterans who refuse to join squad but insist on standing in the middle of their group for the push. Ques are in the 20s, no more help is coming. The lord is down to 10% and there isn't enough siege weapons turned on the lord room to pressure the 'blob' to leave. Those who are on the map but not in squad are peppering the 'blob' with everything on their skill bar, getting big numbers and no downs. No one is running supply to fix the walls because there's defence content and the moment someone leaves they're outnumbered and the objective is going to flip. 

They die and keep running back. Forgetting to grab supply along the way because it's more important to join the fight than to think tanctically. The run back is short, they can die over and over if they have to so long as they grind out the win. 

The blob has killed the Lord and is now sitting on it's corpse to prevent it from being rez'd. Anti-projectile hate surrounds their group and they watch the glass-rangers off themselves with reflects. Amazingly one of those competent veterans (probably a berserker because they know the subtle benefits of their class with select keep tactics) has grabbed the dragon banner and is absolutely PUMPING damage into that blob. He's targeted for pulls but maintains enough defiance to back off before they hunt him down and eliminate the only real threat outside the guild with a half-squad who's got as much on tag as he can and now pushes in. 

They die. Because they're outnumbered on the push and can't sustain against bigger numbers. The idiots ringing the lord room pillars and walls stay exactly where they are and launch aoe's into the fight, failing to single out priority targets or secure downs because the biggest concentration of targets is obviously where the damage goes. The defending squad is wiped and tries to run back to regroup. The militia/veterans who remain dance around the columns to stave off the capture circle. But most of them don't bring self-stability or know that aoe can wrap around columns and so they're downed. The 'blob' expands within the circle to push out contestants and the objective starts ticking. 

Someone managed to repair one of the walls. Two guys are destroying the enemy siege while the keep flips. Another scout announces that the other server is also attacking. He's ignored, except by the ones who were wall-running at spawn and finally realized there was content only to jump into the keep and become fixated on the enemy zerg that's not in the lord room. They start building siege to fight them. 

The capture circle keeps ticking. Slowly, because some of the defenders actually know what they're doing. Then quickly because those guys are now dead. The casuals who haven't been running into death to contest are running out because they don't want to be a trapped bag (they've already died a couple times so they can't give loot or xp, but they don't know that). The objective quickly flips and the defenders run out. Fortunately, the OTHER enemy 'blob' managed to push in before the flip and has become trapped inside. They see the defenders running out and collect a few corpses (no bags, alas) and have to decide to stay and fight or also leave. Someone gets a look at the lord room and sees that there's roughly the same number they have. 

They fight, because this group saw the OJ's and chose to rush toward them instead of taking an undefended objective someplace else. It's a quality fight, though the first 'blob' has lost cooldowns and has broken parties due to attrition. It's a toss-up between which of them wins. 

There's an arrowcart that hasn't been destroyed and one of the defenders is STILL on it. Bags for days. Until someone realizes who the mosquito is and a few people swat him. Oh well, he's got his wiggle chest. Time to call out the idiots in chat for failing to mount a proper defence. 

The two 'blob's fight and one of them wins. Maybe it's the first one, maybe it's the second one. In any case, it's a T-nothing keep and neither of them decides to stay.

5 minutes later there's swords on the keep. A minute later there's oj's in the lord room. Somewhere else on the map there's another set of Oj's, looks like the two 'blobs' are fighting again at a tower. 5 map defenders, uncontested, have retaken their keep. 

The half-squad that transferred to defend the keep is bitched out for failing to defend it and has left the map so they can rejoin those who couldn't get in because of the que. They decide it's best just to do their own thing because half a squad having a good time is unfair to the other half. They pick a map, stay there, and ignore future callouts; if there was a que then it means there are enough defenders to manage on their own. 

Team/map chat gets hostile and abuse is heaped upon whatever tag that showed up because now it's clear THEY were the problem. And by staying on a map instead of responding to future callouts on other maps it's clear they're making the problem even worse. 

The map is still qued. No, it's a false que. Now it's outnumbered. Hunh. The tag now has a que on his map instead. 

The two 'blob's fight each other until one side is the clear winner (or one of them gets bored) and one side logs off. Surprisingly, most of the map is defence colors again. Those 5 guys who flipped the keep have been busy while being ignored. In fact, the keep is T1 and in another 10-15 minutes it'll be T2. One blob is gone but the other is still around. They spend 15-20 minutes retaking their third and then make a push toward the now T2 keep. 

The cycle repeats. 

And maybe it repeats a second time before a friendly tag with most of a squad shows up to respond and manages to get most, if not all, of their coordinated group on the map. With fewer ineffective players on their side, they manage to hold the T2 keep. With content on the map they stick around. The solo players, recognizing that there's an anchor of stability on their map don't dare leave for a different one. They flip camps and towers and rally to the OJ's on tired objectives because there's a rock they can orbit for protection while collecting bags and defender rewards. It's the good life. 

Until another map needs help and that tag swaps bl's to respond. Half their squad is que'd out. 

The cycle repeats. 

LMFAO, you beat me to it, it's like experiencing alpine garri in real time hahahaha 🤣

Also : 

On 4/17/2024 at 4:03 AM, Damian.8127 said:

A hypothetical organised blob seeks some fun. Enemy wont fight open field as they are outnumbered, outgunned or lack a commander.

Some of the best fights revolve around the contesting and it gives roamers and unorganised clouds the chance to be effective.

 

The Enemy blob looking for content. It hits the keep, meanwhile map is obviously qued and zerg can't fully port so obviously can't defend fully... 

Meanwhile, "roamers and unorganised clouds" being effective how???? By clogging the que?  Or refliping objectives they obviously can't defend..

so issue doesn't lie in objectives' stats , issue is the server's players..

It's simple,  get out of the map so zerg can enter. But noo, let the randoms have these epic 1-3 v 50  fights and losing the keep, yet somehow it will end up being Commander's fault...

Tbh if enemy (at least in EU) wants to fight another server , they usually contact leads and go to the 3rd map which won't have que and rvr it out somewhere..  and if it happens to have enemy in your keep, chill while rest of zerg gets though the que, let keep flip so pugs gtfo of the map so rest of the zerg can go fight. 

 

 

Edited April 18 by MysteryDude.1572

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

It's simple,  get out of the map so zerg can enter. But noo, let the randoms have these epic 1-3 v 50  fights and losing the keep, yet somehow it will end up being Commander's fault...

If 1-3 randoms on the map is enough to make a zerg loose against another zerg, that commander has a bigger problem than randoms.

[MysteryDude.1572]

oh yes , please , give me an example of a clean 3 v 50 resulting in 50 man blob wping to 3 randoms

wtf are you smoking

 

[SweetPotato.7456]

6 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Please, do share which posts you found.  xD

I didn't find it, I remember there was a post, someone was saying the ring is too big, and they couldn't cap the camp,  bla bla, and that the ring should be smaller, i don't remember the title of the post, cannot search. 

Well what do you know, I must have a lot of free time, to be able to find this post from the 8,909 posts , ver sure there was another one about the golem and ring being too big, and thief, hopping around invisible bla bla bla lba.

 

Edited April 18 by SweetPotato.7456

[SweetPotato.7456]

maybe should not allow anyone to build any siege in camp at all. LOL .... 

[Zepoolpe.9217]

On 4/17/2024 at 3:03 AM, Damian.8127 said:

Id LOVE to see a video explaining the thought process - even just a post.

Thought process? from Anet?
You lost me at "thought"...

[kash.9213]

10 hours ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

oh yes , please , give me an example of a clean 3 v 50 resulting in 50 man blob wping to 3 randoms

wtf are you smoking

 

I feel like you missed their point. No one's expecting 3 randos to fight off a blob. Also, no one is expecting their own blob to fold like a lawn chair depending on 3 map slots. 

On a related note, if your own blob can't get everyone in, they can focus on a kill order instead of trying to square up and flex the same way they always do. The other blob has to keep their composition together in your territory so the snowball is rolling down their side of the hill. 

[Photon.6718]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:46 PM, Wolfofdivinity.6251 said:

Pre-order GW3

🤪