WTF is Anet doing to WvW?

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

3 minutes ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

Potentially this is fine, organised should have an advantage over disorganised.

Should they though? I know that this is clearly what ANET think, but should 20 organised and less skillful players have an advantage over 40 more skillful players that don't happen to be in a meta composition? Because as it stands at the moment, group composition outweighs ALL other factors, and it isn't even close.

Everything should have some weight in the outcome of a fight. Composition. Tactics. Skill. Numbers. Organisation. As it stands ANET have decided that only organisation and composition matter. Get those right and the other side can be tactically better, with more skill  and greater numbers and if they aren't meta organised they'll lose. Every. Single. Time.

I'm out until this changes. To be honest, if it doesn't change pretty soon I may be out for good. Sure, I'm just one player, but I'm pretty sure that there are others feeling the same way, Then the boonballs can cycle around undefended structures to their hearts content. Just as ANET appears to want it.

[ArchonWing.9480]

18 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Should they though? I know that this is clearly what ANET think, but should 20 organised and less skillful players have an advantage over 40 more skillful players that don't happen to be in a meta composition? Because as it stands at the moment, group composition outweighs ALL other factors, and it isn't even close.

They actually don't. If those 40 players are as skilled as they claim, then they will generally beat the 20. Even a not so skilled group could cloud around them with 30 and the other 10 builds siege, but this is not necessary.

But a bigger problem is that it is incredibly tedious to wipe the 20, even if they play very poorly since the existence of minstrel gear/healers and res skills drags out fights, and that at the very least seems undesirable. You'll often see stuff like the 5 remaining minstrel healers walking away while people continuously whack them across the map.

And the greatest problem is when you have a decently skilled group that is organized and reaches a critical mass (40+). Then at that point, the game breaks down (sometimes quite literally)

Edited May 8 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Should they though?

Organization should always be an advantage over disorganization.  Maybe I'm biased though about how that's an advantage as a general principle all throughout life.

https://ibb.co/fX6NxW3

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Should they though? I know that this is clearly what ANET think, but should 20 organised and less skillful players have an advantage over 40 more skillful players that don't happen to be in a meta composition?

if the 40 are more skilled at clouding than the 20 are at running their ball, the 40 will win. however often those unorganized 40 have like 4-5 people that know what they are doing on builds that are good for clouding but the others are just essentially standing about or might as well.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

2 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Should they though? I know that this is clearly what ANET think, but should 20 organised and less skillful players have an advantage over 40 more skillful players that don't happen to be in a meta composition? Because as it stands at the moment, group composition outweighs ALL other factors, and it isn't even close.

You added some qualifiers which weren't in my example. As others have said if the 40 players are more skillful than the 20 organised zerg players then I think even now with the boon meta the zerg will get whittled down or outright destroyed.

I guess it depends what you mean by skillful tho. You potentially mean "would win a 1v1" but that's not a fair judgement really. A good zerg player who has been practicing with their guild for months on how to fill a role and keep the zerg going could potentially get smashed in a 1v1 against good roamers but that's because roamers spend most of their time practicing small scale engagements. It doesn't mean the zerg player isn't a skillful zerg player. 

[MarkBecks.6453]

On 5/6/2024 at 4:41 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

Huh?

You have Spanish server in which a lot of South Americans prefer to play rather than NA servers meaning they play in their prime time while EU sleep and mostly unopposed, as well as Australian which is 6 -8 hours ahead of EU also, Now, try figure out a fair and just system to cater for all players on EU servers.
The second point is you have a system with no boon strips for smaller groups defending, need 50% of your structure repaired and players spamming Resolution, Resistance, Regen and Barrier while they stand on the lord and take zero damage (no skill required). I am a realist and unfortunately the linking is so bad, that we have been on the bottom of T5 for 5 weeks with links., so what is up and what is down, seems the game should have been getting better over 12 years, but I am finding this to be the worst state I have ever played in. 

[Intrudjeeer.1570]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:16 AM, Sonork.2916 said:

So what is skill then in ZvZ?  If not optimizing for whatever meta is in play atm?  i feel your post couldn't be more wrong imo.  So the 20 players that organize, build an optimal comp, and then coordinate movement to kill a 70 man blob are not skilled huh?  Really curious what you think skill is in this game.

So you want to say that those 20, that are organised in group of 5 each should always win cause they are organised. It`s a 1 vs 2.5. In that case why 5 vs 17 doest apply the same? I mean you have 4 groups with 3 support each in that group of 20. So 12 support can cover a whole enemy map against them. Yes sounds very balanced

[Aeolus.3615]

16 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

if the 40 are more skilled at clouding than the 20 are at running their ball, the 40 will win. however often those unorganized 40 have like 4-5 people that know what they are doing on builds that are good for clouding but the others are just essentially standing about or might as well.

if the 20 are running  full minstrels all that will happen is the 20  will leave like a turtle and the 40 with follow behind w/o managing too defeat the team, probably down one or 2  but not more.

if the 40 is Zerg setup  builded of several type of builds the 40 have a still a chance to  win in an attrition fight but who has more quickness burst and more boon momentum will dictate the real winner there's a big chance  that the 20 with permanent quickness can win over the 40 as well and easily, specially if they a re organised group carried by minstrels and boons, but on clouding vs minstrel stacking the 20 will last and probably will tank a lot of stuff while running away til they hide in some structure they hold, then push and killing some of the 40 clouders, hence and repeat, don't forget that the 20 permanent boons also have pulls and they have the advantage of the permanent boons over the clouders so it will be harder for the cloud to pull and shutdown players on that mini boon ball.

Note 1:  those  20 players can mantain all boon permanent  and some boons at max stacks, pulls from the clouders  will catch probably 1 or 2 at max.

Note 2: even groups of 10 can have permanent boon and max stacks on many boons, boons can carry and carry by alot, specially having permanent quickness is a must for wvw wins, alacrity will make ammo base skills recharge faster and be kinda spammed with their defensive boons.

Edited May 9 by Aeolus.3615

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, MarkBecks.6453 said:

You have Spanish server in which a lot of South Americans prefer to play rather than NA servers meaning they play in their prime time while EU sleep and mostly unopposed, as well as Australian which is 6 -8 hours ahead of EU also, Now, try figure out a fair and just system to cater for all players on EU servers.

My confusion is because you stated that USA is on similar timezone and that EU players are global which sounded like you were implying that NA doesn't have players from all over the world and the issues that it brings.  The NA servers have had MORE of those "off-hours" players and issues you describe than the EU servers though.  NA servers have always recruited for coverage, understanding the inflated value of  "off-hours" players in the scoring system and using that to "win". It's been discussed to death over the past decade.  As for a fair and just system to cater to all players, that's been discussed to death too, even including a dev proposal to the scoring system.

 

[Sonork.2916]

8 hours ago, Intrudjeeer.1570 said:

So you want to say that those 20, that are organised in group of 5 each should always win cause they are organised. It`s a 1 vs 2.5. In that case why 5 vs 17 doest apply the same? I mean you have 4 groups with 3 support each in that group of 20. So 12 support can cover a whole enemy map against them. Yes sounds very balanced

They don't always win.  They'll lose to other groups doing the same or similar.  Either because the other group has more numbers but are organized enough, or the other group got a better bomb, or just outplayed the other group.  You make it sound like it's impossible to kill the 20 organized group cause "boons", and you are entirely wrong.  it's hard, sure, for unorganized pugs to do it, but it should be imo.  if 40 unorganized pugs could always go even with a 40 organized group, then trying to organize anything would be pointless.

[Zepoolpe.9217]

20 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

ANET think

Really?

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

My confusion is because you stated that USA is on similar timezone and that EU players are global which sounded like you were implying that NA doesn't have players from all over the world and the issues that it brings.  The NA servers have had MORE of those "off-hours" players and issues you describe than the EU servers though.  NA servers have always recruited for coverage, understanding the inflated value of  "off-hours" players in the scoring system and using that to "win". It's been discussed to death over the past decade.  As for a fair and just system to cater to all players, that's been discussed to death too, even including a dev proposal to the scoring system.

 

Yea, we basically have entire servers that only exist because of OCX/SEA coverage.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

An attacker should need a 2:1 advantage to take a keep (3:1 is what militaries operate under)

But with the current meta, a zerg of 20 can easily take everything against a cloud of 50. And that is just WRONG.

[XenesisII.1540]

3 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

if 40 unorganized pugs could always go even with a 40 organized group, then trying to organize anything would be pointless.

The mag cloud use to do this, was that wrong? should that never happen? should that not exist?

40 Organized have: 1) Organized into proper comp groups, 2) Voice commands, 3) Meta builds, 4) Makes the most use of team skills like revive skills, and heals, and stability, and max boons, and cleanses.

40 Unorganized have: 1) Not in squads and rely on themselves to survive, 2) No voice and have to read the movement of both their teammates and enemies, 3) Not much meta support, more likely meta roamer/havoc dps builds, 4) Don't make much use of revive, support, boon spam builds on each other, and going over to f on downed is asking to be bombed on. 

If the organized group can't get by on just voice and using positioning/movement to kill those type of enemies, then that's on the commander or group. Additional game mechanics like support spam becomes a carry for that group through situations where the other side isn't relying on that as much, but still managing to put up a fight without them. So who here has the real skill and being rewarded for it, the group of 40 being told what to do from one person every step of the way carried by additional bonus game mechanics that groups that size can make full use of, or the 40 who rely on themselves mostly, maybe using clever tactics and positioning and instincts to whittle that group to get through those situations to win?

Just because you play with 49 other people in a squad doesn't mean the game should give you an additional level of protection from everyone else. Anet has dumbed down the game so much so 50 squad go around thinking they should be gods and only other gods can touch them, walk through objectives with barely a scratch. Anet forgot this is primarily a pvp game mode, not a pve raid. If they are only going to make those boon balls "feel good" about playing while they slow roll their population balance process, then I guess the rest of might as well quit as soon they get on the map and wait for them to get bored and leave.

Edited May 9 by XenesisII.1540

[Chaba.5410]

6 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

The mag cloud use to do this, was that wrong? should that never happen? should that not exist?

That's misrepresenting the Mag cloud.  They are far more organized than other "unorganized pugs".
 

6 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

40 Unorganized have: 1) Not in squads and rely on themselves to survive, 2) No voice and have to read the movement of both their teammates and enemies, 3) Not much meta support, more likely meta roamer/havoc dps builds, 4) Don't make much use of revive, support, boon spam builds on each other, and going over to f on downed is asking to be bombed on. 

This is not a Mag cloud.  To say they don't make much use of revive, support, and boon spam builds on each other is pretty wild.

To be fair, a lot of the players core to a true Mag cloud that were organized aren't much playing today.

Edited May 9 by Chaba.5410

[bq pd.2148]

6 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

if the 20 are running  full minstrels all that will happen is the 20  will leave like a turtle and the 40 with follow behind w/o managing too defeat the team, probably down one or 2  but not more.

if the 40 is Zerg setup  builded of several type of builds the 40 have a still a chance to  win in an attrition fight but who has more quickness burst and more boon momentum will dictate the real winner there's a big chance  that the 20 with permanent quickness can win over the 40 as well and easily, specially if they a re organised group carried by minstrels and boons, but on clouding vs minstrel stacking the 20 will last and probably will tank a lot of stuff while running away til they hide in some structure they hold, then push and killing some of the 40 clouders, hence and repeat, don't forget that the 20 permanent boons also have pulls and they have the advantage of the permanent boons over the clouders so it will be harder for the cloud to pull and shutdown players on that mini boon ball.

Note 1:  those  20 players can mantain all boon permanent  and some boons at max stacks, pulls from the clouders  will catch probably 1 or 2 at max.

Note 2: even groups of 10 can have permanent boon and max stacks on many boons, boons can carry and carry by alot, specially having permanent quickness is a must for wvw wins, alacrity will make ammo base skills recharge faster and be kinda spammed with their defensive boons.

as said most people in a cloud are absolutely useless and dont provide anything to the fight, at most a momentary distraction, while within that 20 comp, everyone does provide something to their group.
that is why i said if those 40 were as skilled at clouding and on builds that are effective at it, then they will kill the 20.
what is more likely to happen (random numbers):  30% of the clouders are people supporting the empty spaces, 25% are slow full melee builds that just walk around in the area, another 35% are spamming projectiles and only the remaining 10% can actually apply pressure while being elusive enough to not get trained.  in that case its more like a 20 vs 4, that obviously the 4 wont win.

Edited May 9 by bq pd.2148

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

45 minutes ago, bq pd.2148 said:

as said most people in a cloud are absolutely useless and dont provide anything to the fight, at most a momentary distraction, while within that 20 comp, everyone does provide something to their group.
that is why i said if those 40 were as skilled at clouding and on builds that are effective at it, then they will kill the 20.
what is more likely to happen (random numbers):  30% of the clouders are people supporting the empty spaces, 25% are slow full melee builds that just walk around in the area, another 35% are spamming projectiles and only the remaining 10% can actually apply pressure while being elusive enough to not get trained.  in that case its more like a 20 vs 4, that obviously the 4 wont win.

And what about the boonball? What if 30% of them are just mashing buttons on a support class? What if 35% of them are running classes that are providing boons virtually passively? What if 10% of them are barely producing half of the dps they should? In that case the cloud  should win, right?

But it doesn't.

You can pull numbers out of your kitten as much as you like, we've got a fundamental problem with the gamemode where scissors have been buffed and buffed and rock has been driven out of the game. Anyone playing paper because that's what they like are just getting steamrollered, and quitting the game as a result. If that's what ANET wants, then good luck to them. But from their panicked attempt to gather "feedback" on this forum, I'd say they've already recognised the mess they've made and are taking steps to fix it.

Or at least I'd hope so.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Alright, so like yes gameplay at all scales is being dumbed down and boring but on the other hand losing when you have 2-3 :1 odds in your favor and trying to make excuses is just pure cope.

Even without comms, people can still form parties. A lot of the more successful clouds out there are actually a lot of mini groups running independently. If you take 5 random bad players and put a target over whoever you want dead, they will become much more efficient. I mean you may not win but I assure you that you can kill at least one person.

Also it goes without saying that people should not run whatever when facing something difficult. You can do 2 things:

1.) Either grab a build from metabattle and build it more selfishly

2.) Take a roaming build and build it more for the group.

For example, Soulbeasts could take leader of the pack and Dolyak/Bear. This is already massive support and you aint pew pewing boonballs in one shot anyways.

Or Guardians could swap out Judge's Intervention (lol) for Stand Your Ground, because duh. The amount of guardians I see deliberately blink into a zerg and explode is kinda funny.

Also, pay attention to where your other green dots are. The amount of people that will chase a single target into and through a zerg alone and then kitten about why nobody followed them is too much.

Like, yea I understand if you don't want to join comms or whatever. But really, at the end of the day it is your responsibility to find a way to be useful in a fight, regardless of how even if it's just building a treb in the background.

I mean yesterday I was a core cele grenade engi, which pretty much is the most useless thing in a zerg fight (even a mechanist would be more useful) because it has NO attacks that can harm a good zerg (gj anet for having weapons be completely useless in large scale). But I still found a way when they weren't paying attention (lol). I moa'd some when they were trying to portal bomb. 🤣 Though to be fair they didn't really run many reflects. (Oh, these people must be the ones that wanted siege disablers gone). But like, I don't kitten about it too much because I could have changed my build but was too lazy.

Edited May 9 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cael.3960]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

The mag cloud use to do this, was that wrong? should that never happen? should that not exist?

40 Organized have: 1) Organized into proper comp groups, 2) Voice commands, 3) Meta builds, 4) Makes the most use of team skills like revive skills, and heals, and stability, and max boons, and cleanses.

40 Unorganized have: 1) Not in squads and rely on themselves to survive, 2) No voice and have to read the movement of both their teammates and enemies, 3) Not much meta support, more likely meta roamer/havoc dps builds, 4) Don't make much use of revive, support, boon spam builds on each other, and going over to f on downed is asking to be bombed on. 

If your organized group can't get by on just voice and using positioning/movement to kill those type of enemies, then that's on the commander or group. Additional game mechanics like support spam becomes a carry for that group through situations where the other side isn't relying on that as much, but still managing to put up a fight with them. So who here has the real skill and being rewarded for it, the group of 40 being told what to do from one person every step of the way carried by additional bonus game mechanics that groups that size can make full use of, or the 40 who rely on themselves mostly, maybe using clever tactics and positioning and instincts to whittle that group to get through those situations to win?

Just because you play with 49 other people in a squad doesn't mean the game should give you an additional level of protection from everyone else. Anet has dumbed down the game so much so 50 squad go around thinking they should be gods and only other gods can touch them, walk through objectives with barely a scratch. Anet forgot this is primarily a pvp game mode, not a pve raid. If they are only going to make those boon balls "feel good" about playing while they slow roll their population balance process, then I guess the rest of might as well quit as soon they get on the map and wait for them to get bored and leave.

You raised a few quality points here. The mag cloud did used to do this, their success hinged on 40 individuals all making the right decisions independant of each other. Each using their ability to read the movements of a larger group so as to keep themselves alive and have as great an impact as possible. Each individual player recognizing that they can't kill the entire group on their own, but instead must create opportunities via pulls and targeting the weak or out-of-position elements of that squad so nearby allies could finish targets together. An 'unorganized' group can beat an organized group with equal numbers, this is still very much true. However, it also requires a much higher baseline of skill and personal awareness to manage this. 

Then you ruined it completely with the assumption that no individual member of a 40-man squad can think for themself. 

Do you honestly think a commander is telling each and every member of his squad when to use every button on his skill bar? When to weapon swap, when to dodge and how to face their camera when they're doing it? Is he aware, down to the milisecond, when each skill squad-wide is off cooldown or has enough ammo/energy/resource so it can be used?  

Dude. I don't know if you're just hopelessly ignorant or are proclaiming a godlike level ability to that one player who spent 300g on a commander tag. Maybe if every roamer on your server bought a commander tag we wouldn't be having this discussion. For a certainty a map-que of solo god-tags should be able to beat anything. 

It's a different mentality altogether, and one you're obviously not experienced with. A member of a squad has to work within the needs and expectations of the squad. A support has to assess the condition of their party and do what needs to be done to keep them alive and free to perform their functions. A DPS needs positional and situational awareness so as not to over-stress their support. A hybrid class has even more decisions to juggle; they need to know when to use their unique balance of utility to the greatest effect. 

And, in addition to all these individual considerations, a squadmember needs to know when the commander is WRONG and to take the appropriate actions when their commander can't read the situation or is unfamiliar with the builds/comp he's trying to coordinate. This happens far more often than you'd think, especially as squads become less and less comped. It's why squads have Lt's, and why the best inside it will provide their commander with feedback and theorycraft when the comp needs adjusting or a strategy is proving ineffective. 

Your 40-man cloud isn't clever. Some within it might be. Some might even be using tactics. But the level of player ability in a cloud is often just as varied as within a squad. You have your heroes, your elites, your quality and your average. Plenty of new/inexperienced/poor in both as well. The difference is that being a 'bad' player can be corrected when you have someone with more knowledge and awareness to guide you. Squads make this easy because voice coms are the most efficient form of communication and offer instantaneous feedback and instruction for those who need it. It's rare to see solo players mentoring others, mostly they just do what solo players do: their own thing. That and complain about everything in mapchat. 

Finally, the game doesn't give people who play in a squad an additional level of protection. The players in the squad give each other that protection. You're confusing the benefit of people helping each other with a system that doesn't care whether you play alone or not. The cloud used to help each other. You don't need to be in a squad to be large and organized, you just need to recognize the potential to contribute to your allies' success instead of thinking just for yourself. Right now a lot of 'solo' players treat enemy groups like a DPS dummy and have no game plan for how to actually take it down. They don't think of their allies and how they can work together, all they're thinking about is how to hit as many targets as possible to maximize DPSs numbers and potential bags while not getting close enough to be blown up. A minimal level of coordination would be enough to take down most groups, but we rarely see even this. You're fighting against your own adopted identity just as much as your enemy, it's not wonder you've having problems succeeding. Cut the handicap and learn to work together; you don't have to join a squad, you just have to be aware allies exist and to make use of them instead of trying to do everything yourself.  

[Chaba.5410]

3 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

2) No voice and have to read the movement of both their teammates and enemies

It may be useful to add, this isn't unique to "unorganized".  If the players in an organized group are not reading the movement of both their teammates and enemies, they can get destroyed too.  Maybe you think not being on voice is the defining feature?  There's plenty of commanders who trust known players to not be on voice all the time, especially if they are doing some pug tagging.

[jul.7602]

Can we stop this propaganda that says Maguuma Clouders could beat comped/boonball groups. This was never true. It's certainly not true now, and it wasn't true back in the "old Maguuma" either.  The only reason that the old maguuma was successful at clouding was because Minstrel wasn't a thing, and the only squads that existed were PvX joke blobs. I guarantee you that the old Maguuma would be getting stomped just as badly if not worse than current one against DH.

 

-Chief of Police

Edited May 10 by jul.7602

[hugeboss.5432]

The bigger issue with the recent onslaught of defense nerfs, is the new emerging trend of zergs selling "raid slots" for WXP-Speed-Farming (ktraining) recently. It's all about speed capping as much WXP/hour as possible & selling that as a service. They will not stay long anywhere, and leave anything that has "marginal player resistance", as that slows them down.
Nobody is complaining about that things are too hard to capture on the forums, but they usually complain that things are captured too fast & easy, and are too hard to defend. Why then is Anet focused on downgrading defense mechanics at all? It makes no sense.

This is disturbing, but are these things related? Does it warrant further investigation? That's the really important question Anet's Lead Devs & Game Head should be asking themselves.

[Intrudjeeer.1570]

8 hours ago, Cael.3960 said:

You raised a few quality points here. The mag cloud did used to do this, their success hinged on 40 individuals all making the right decisions independant of each other. Each using their ability to read the movements of a larger group so as to keep themselves alive and have as great an impact as possible. Each individual player recognizing that they can't kill the entire group on their own, but instead must create opportunities via pulls and targeting the weak or out-of-position elements of that squad so nearby allies could finish targets together. An 'unorganized' group can beat an organized group with equal numbers, this is still very much true. However, it also requires a much higher baseline of skill and personal awareness to manage this. 

Then you ruined it completely with the assumption that no individual member of a 40-man squad can think for themself. 

Do you honestly think a commander is telling each and every member of his squad when to use every button on his skill bar? When to weapon swap, when to dodge and how to face their camera when they're doing it? Is he aware, down to the milisecond, when each skill squad-wide is off cooldown or has enough ammo/energy/resource so it can be used?  

Dude. I don't know if you're just hopelessly ignorant or are proclaiming a godlike level ability to that one player who spent 300g on a commander tag. Maybe if every roamer on your server bought a commander tag we wouldn't be having this discussion. For a certainty a map-que of solo god-tags should be able to beat anything. 

It's a different mentality altogether, and one you're obviously not experienced with. A member of a squad has to work within the needs and expectations of the squad. A support has to assess the condition of their party and do what needs to be done to keep them alive and free to perform their functions. A DPS needs positional and situational awareness so as not to over-stress their support. A hybrid class has even more decisions to juggle; they need to know when to use their unique balance of utility to the greatest effect. 

And, in addition to all these individual considerations, a squadmember needs to know when the commander is WRONG and to take the appropriate actions when their commander can't read the situation or is unfamiliar with the builds/comp he's trying to coordinate. This happens far more often than you'd think, especially as squads become less and less comped. It's why squads have Lt's, and why the best inside it will provide their commander with feedback and theorycraft when the comp needs adjusting or a strategy is proving ineffective. 

Your 40-man cloud isn't clever. Some within it might be. Some might even be using tactics. But the level of player ability in a cloud is often just as varied as within a squad. You have your heroes, your elites, your quality and your average. Plenty of new/inexperienced/poor in both as well. The difference is that being a 'bad' player can be corrected when you have someone with more knowledge and awareness to guide you. Squads make this easy because voice coms are the most efficient form of communication and offer instantaneous feedback and instruction for those who need it. It's rare to see solo players mentoring others, mostly they just do what solo players do: their own thing. That and complain about everything in mapchat. 

Finally, the game doesn't give people who play in a squad an additional level of protection. The players in the squad give each other that protection. You're confusing the benefit of people helping each other with a system that doesn't care whether you play alone or not. The cloud used to help each other. You don't need to be in a squad to be large and organized, you just need to recognize the potential to contribute to your allies' success instead of thinking just for yourself. Right now a lot of 'solo' players treat enemy groups like a DPS dummy and have no game plan for how to actually take it down. They don't think of their allies and how they can work together, all they're thinking about is how to hit as many targets as possible to maximize DPSs numbers and potential bags while not getting close enough to be blown up. A minimal level of coordination would be enough to take down most groups, but we rarely see even this. You're fighting against your own adopted identity just as much as your enemy, it's not wonder you've having problems succeeding. Cut the handicap and learn to work together; you don't have to join a squad, you just have to be aware allies exist and to make use of them instead of trying to do everything yourself.  

Exactly that is the problem. Nobody cares about skill anymore. Put 5 boon providers/ group, kill everything with auto attack as long as perma boons were up.

If I put my 7yo kid in a squad, and tell him stick to this guy with a tag and press these 3 buttons to spit boons, you are good to go.

[Cael.3960]

10 hours ago, Intrudjeeer.1570 said:

Exactly that is the problem. Nobody cares about skill anymore. Put 5 boon providers/ group, kill everything with auto attack as long as perma boons were up.

If I put my 7yo kid in a squad, and tell him stick to this guy with a tag and press these 3 buttons to spit boons, you are good to go.

.... guess I didn't TLDR early enough. Maybe take a re-read first before responding next time, you missed the point entirely. 

[Chaos God.1639]

On 5/10/2024 at 9:15 AM, Intrudjeeer.1570 said:

Exactly that is the problem. Nobody cares about skill anymore. Put 5 boon providers/ group, kill everything with auto attack as long as perma boons were up.

If I put my 7yo kid in a squad, and tell him stick to this guy with a tag and press these 3 buttons to spit boons, you are good to go.

the problem with such conclusions is that you are blaming the game and not the players. what if the changes you are asking for will backfire at you? will you then go back to the forum to complain about the game not being balanced?

players who don't complain about the boonballs already found a way how to defeat their enemies and are enjoying the game in its current state. that's way this phrase exists: "dont blame the game, blame the player".

Edited May 11 by Chaos God.1639