Why slot Chilling Fog?

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, Jeydra.4386 said:

That is the key issue. If they have 10 and you have 5, then your Ballista can actually matter.

But for the purpose of this question: can you predict whether your Ballista will actually matter before you slot the tactic?

Well, that heavily depends on the enemy groups that are running at the time, and people on your side that are active on the map, so you kinda can.

Also 2 ballistas or whatever 100 supply of siege  is the worst case scenario; every 20 minutes it can be pulled for 100 more supply so the longer the enemy does not attack the structure the more siege can be built, also increasing the likelihood it'll be put in a useful location. Like in most cases if people actually cared about defending they could build the right siege depending on where the enemy is going  and also making sure the supply doesn't get overcapped. Though yes in real life nobody wants to hang around these days so you just build as much as you can and not potentially cover every single possibility because defense is a team effort and the responsibility isn't all yours.

So yes I think slotting supply drop will be more useful in most cases unless I know we don't intend to hold to objective for long.  But in that case there's no need to defend the structure anyways. At most you could put sabotage/iron guards and supply trap or just nothing at all. 

Edited May 11 by ArchonWing.9480

[mirage.8046]

Chill fog while a nice delay on paper is quite obsolete with how often resistance is available and the numerous condition cleanses/conversions there are. what if chilling fog obscured your vision, making it harder for you to detect enemies? it really needs an effect that cannot be easily countered. I also like the idea of no boon generation inside the fog which would not only soften the enemy zerg for damage but the chilling fog would do something useful against a zerg. I'd be fine with either or. It seems like there are fewer and fewer hard counters to defend stuff, and it's tiring that you can't do much to defend a tower or keep. 

[Jeydra.4386]

4 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, that heavily depends on the enemy groups that are running at the time, and people on your side that are active on the map, so you kinda can.

I'm certain you're exaggerating. You cannot predict that the group that's running now will attack you in the near future. They might never attack, or another group might attack 12 hours in the future. Don't forget that when they have 10 and you have 5, a single player logging off (or on) has an impact.

If you're arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm not going to respond further.

[ArchonWing.9480]

28 minutes ago, Jeydra.4386 said:

I'm certain you're exaggerating. You cannot predict that the group that's running now will attack you in the near future. They might never attack, or another group might attack 12 hours in the future. Don't forget that when they have 10 and you have 5, a single player logging off (or on) has an impact.

If you're arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm not going to respond further.

Well, there is something in WvW we call scouting. While it is not possible to 100% predict an enemy's movements., it is pretty reasonable to expect that a group of 10+ or more that has just flipped multiple things on the east side of the map is going to continue to attack objectives  in that direction and usually players will work to track the said enemy to minimize the guesswork.

Also I don't think most players care about what happens 12 hours after they log off; that's much of an exaggeration and not relevant to any decision making at all, and many structures do not last 12 hours anyways.

 

Edited May 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[Jeydra.4386]

You are making so many assumptions here - although it's completely possible to predict that a group that just flipped NET -> NC would go to NWT, you are also assuming that NWT does not have any tactics and you are slotting the tactics now. It's rare for that to be the case, and besides, by the time the enemy group gets there, your tactics won't even be ready for use yet.

It definitely feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing, bringing up all these corner cases to show that X tactic is better than Y tactic. I think I'm done.

[ArchonWing.9480]

13 minutes ago, Jeydra.4386 said:

You are making so many assumptions here - although it's completely possible to predict that a group that just flipped NET -> NC would go to NWT, you are also assuming that NWT does not have any tactics and you are slotting the tactics now. It's rare for that to be the case, and besides, by the time the enemy group gets there, your tactics won't even be ready for use yet.

It definitely feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing, bringing up all these corner cases to show that X tactic is better than Y tactic. I think I'm done.

This entire conversation started because you started rattling over every possibility on why building a ballista wouldn't work, when it was never meant to cover ever single possibility (fighting 4:1 outnumbered, people moving out of ballista range, people not using ballistas right, losing it in 12 hours). Obviously 100 supply wasn't meant to be the be all and end all of every situation.

Also if we didn't know when the thing comes under attack, we should slot supply drop because for every 20 minutes  extra it's held, we can make the structure more defended with each pull of 100 supply.

I never claimed any of these things were fool proof, after all; it is you that keeps creating these scenarios that I'm trying to address.

Edited May 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:45 AM, misterman.1530 said:

The more I look into Chilling Fog, the less I see any reason to slot it as a tactic. If you use it against the typical Boonball meta which would, I assume, have classes passively converting conditions into boons, doesn't that mean that you are giving the blob free alacrity (since Chill converts to Alacrity)?

What's the upside of Chilling Fog?

Weather is hot. Air conditioning good.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

I slot chilling fog when I expect to fight enemies inside the walls, and supply drop when I expect to fight them outside the walls(siege and counter siege battle). 

If there is an enemy group that is able to convert it to alac every 3 seconds...well you aren't likely to break through their supports anyways. 

[Chaba.5410]

Well, there goes Chilling Fog.  🙂

Now it will apply cryotherapy to allied players, reducing inflammation and preventing heat stroke. (heal defenders)

Buff to defenders?  Should be more useful now.

Edited May 14 by Chaba.5410

[Triptaminas.4789]

11 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Well, there goes Chilling Fog.  🙂

Now it will apply cryotherapy to allied players, reducing inflammation and preventing heat stroke. (heal defenders)

Buff to defenders?  Should be more useful now.

It be as useful as current lord healing skill.

Nobody ever fugging notices it, like it be 20hp every two second vs overstacked aoe fields everywhere each doing 3k damage and variety of condis every pulse (1s pulse interval) I can guarantee u that it's another nerf that now nobody would bother to use even in fights where 1 guy defending tower from 1 attacker. 

 

P.s I obv hyperbolizing it, it probably be few hundred or smtg hp in par of avg regen tick. Which is useless unless u doing really smoll scale completely disorganized defence where u run boonless and kite around, in that case with new chill fog u can yolo push if it's not willbenders on other side, yet with old chill fog it was basically gg for cloud of attackers.

Edited May 14 by Triptaminas.4789

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

• The Chilling Fog tactivator now heals allied players every few seconds for its duration instead of chilling enemy players.
  
  Looks like they may have responded in the upcoming WvW changes...

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

P.s I obv hyperbolizing it, it probably be few hundred or smtg hp in par of avg regen tick. Which is useless unless u doing really smoll scale completely disorganized defence where u run boonless and kite around, in that case with new chill fog u can yolo push if it's not willbenders on other side, yet with old chill fog it was basically gg for cloud of attackers.

I'll wait and see how it's implemented before forming an opinion.  My bias though is I always preferred the supply drop over it because I always thought it dumb to give alacrity to attackers.

[mirage.8046]

Oh they have heard, but was it what anyone wanted? I'm not sure how chilling fog would still be called chilling fog if it's just not gonna chill foes or hinder enemies. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Well, there goes Chilling Fog.  🙂

Now it will apply cryotherapy to allied players, reducing inflammation and preventing heat stroke. (heal defenders)

Buff to defenders?  Should be more useful now.

For some reason I read that as applying cryptocurrency to allied players.

That would be marginally more useful.

[Cuks.8241]

Conversions are not like they used to be with old Pop. 

In a even fight it will give advantage to the defenders. Even with high resistance uptime it's a squad wide cover condi. 

But pulling it to slow a squad down. This won't really work if it has any semblance of composition.

[TheGrimm.5624]

57 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

For some reason I read that as applying cryptocurrency to allied players.

That would be marginally more useful.

lol. On pull of the tactivator each defending player in the objective will receive coin every pulse so that they might have money to buy siege to retake the structure.

...2 weeks later ...

Ecto gambling up ten fold.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol. On pull of the tactivator each defending player in the objective will receive coin every pulse so that they might have money to buy siege to retake the structure.

...2 weeks later ...

Ecto gambling up ten fold.

There you go Grimm, you cracked the code on how to get people to jump into small rings to defend no matter who's involved, it's not a heal, misplacing nodes, not a stability boon, not even seeing the lord health as an event, it would be because of gold motivation.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Watch the heal be 200 health ticks

This tactic should also give stealth periodically (like an objective wide stealth pool) to at least be in line with its name. 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 5/14/2024 at 4:58 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

There you go Grimm, you cracked the code on how to get people to jump into small rings to defend no matter who's involved, it's not a heal, misplacing nodes, not a stability boon, not even seeing the lord health as an event, it would be because of gold motivation.

lol, you know its in bad state when I am not even trying to block a ring cap or telling people to try and use the delay tactic. 

Edited May 17 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: Sorry sad peep. I will try and block 6 with 1 one, I will ask 5 to try and slow 50, I will tell a tagless map to still and try and block a cap before changes. Now... not so much. Does that help?

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, you know its in bad state when I am not even trying to block a ring cap or telling people to try and use the delay tactic. 

Maybe that is the key, if defenders stick 1 toe into the ring they are guaranteed defense credit? Mwahaha

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

Maybe that is the key, if defenders stick 1 toe into the ring they are guaranteed defense credit? Mwahaha

lol. No it was more of a bad habit learned from Warhammer and that was the DPS players job to block rings until the tanks and healers could get there. But you might be right this could be the scoring change coming up...hmmmmm. 🙂