One more for the road.8950 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Quote While participating in Player-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay in the Services, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other users’ experiences in the Services by not actively participating in good faith (e.g., “griefing” or “leeching”). I need to know if I am "griefing" or "leeching" if I am at the bank sorting my inventory as I wait for the tick or take a pee break instead of using a bottle. Please respond with utmost haste. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 PvP refers to the PvP gamemode. You are not allowed to multibox while in WvW though, that would be against the rules. It is not against the rules to have multiple accounts on different servers, so long as you are not within WvW at the same time on those multiple accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoraLink.5749 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Anet has never banned a player for account hopping, their devs actively participate in this, and this does not constitute match manipulation if everyone is playing to win, you are offering a poor interpretation of the rule. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Apraxis.4803 said: "incredible game mode" LOL, lmfao even "incredible game mode" is correct, otherwise WvW would have died many years ago because Anet neglected it for so long. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urd.8306 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 47 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: PvP refers to the PvP gamemode. You are not allowed to multibox while in WvW though, that would be against the rules. It is not against the rules to have multiple accounts on different servers, so long as you are not within WvW at the same time on those multiple accounts. And even that doesn't get banned. There is a player on SFR 👯♀️☀️ which has 4 of his accounts sitting in Golanta all day while his main account is either running around or just waiting for people that try to flip the camp. I think 80% of all SFR players and everyone going into that camp reported him already - he is running for months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbound.5610 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 9 minutes ago, urd.8306 said: And even that doesn't get banned. There is a player on SFR 👯♀️☀️ which has 4 of his accounts sitting in Golanta all day while his main account is either running around or just waiting for people that try to flip the camp. I think 80% of all SFR players and everyone going into that camp reported him already - he is running for months now. You should really screenshot this, note the account names, and report it. It is the only way to deal with this. CS does take action with violations, believe me. It is up to all of us to keep WvW clean and balanced. If your favorite popular commander on your server decides to tag up on an opposing server to form a mega meta voice squad and farm your pugs into the ground with like some psycho, report that. This is basically the point of this post. In my view this scenario is match manipulation. How CS views it is another matter, but we will not know until we take action with it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I am curious. What kind of problem are you trying to solve here? What are these "actions" supposed to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgotten Legend.9281 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Anet has said in the past, that "spy accounts" are a legitimate tactic, as is 2 servers vs 1 server. They've also said that your quoted rule applies to sPvP mode, not WvWvW mode. I'm not going to look through 12 years of blogs and forum posts, across 3 forums to find the quotes. As for server-hopping... that will be restricted to once every 4 weeks in WR, and based on WvW guild selection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said: Anet has said in the past, that "spy accounts" are a legitimate tactic, as is 2 servers vs 1 server. They've also said that your quoted rule applies to sPvP mode, not WvWvW mode. I'm not going to look through 12 years of blogs and forum posts, across 3 forums to find the quotes. As for server-hopping... that will be restricted to once every 4 weeks in WR, and based on WvW guild selection. I also vaguely remember something about that years ago, as this subject has come up before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscuro.9720 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Mesmer portals are a form of match manipulation. Using portals to circumvent the intended objective of destroying the entrance point to an objective is circumventing the rules of play. Therefore, we should hardware ban all mesmers. And before you start whining like a toddler that hasn’t taken its Xanax that I am misapplying what you are saying, maybe you should take a second and ask if you aren’t yourself taking something and applying your own biases to interpret it in a way that you want. Because I see no difference between us other than the fact that I’m not whining about people doing what they want and not inconveniencing me in the slightest. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devastoscz.9851 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, SoraLink.5749 said: Anet has never banned a player for account hopping, their devs actively participate in this, and this does not constitute match manipulation if everyone is playing to win, you are offering a poor interpretation of the rule. This. OP is misrepresenting the intention of the rule. If you're using an alt account to pull "enemy" tactivators or something like that, this rule becomes pertinent to an extent. Otherwise, playing for a team within your given skill level and then hopping over to your other account to do the same (or even just do your dailies) is not a violation of CoC. If there's no "content" in one matchup during your gaming time, and you have an alternative option in another server, why would it break CoC to use it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Hellbound.5610 said: You should really screenshot this, note the account names, and report it. It is the only way to deal with this. CS does take action with violations, believe me. Well, what kind of actions do you mean? If players from a certain guild on a certain server repeatedly bug their way into keeps and have been reported countless times for it, but those players keep doing it for months without it bothering them, these can't be serious actions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbound.5610 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 20 minutes ago, devastoscz.9851 said: This. OP is misrepresenting the intention of the rule. If you're using an alt account to pull "enemy" tactivators or something like that, this rule becomes pertinent to an extent. Otherwise, playing for a team within your given skill level and then hopping over to your other account to do the same (or even just do your dailies) is not a violation of CoC. If there's no "content" in one matchup during your gaming time, and you have an alternative option in another server, why would it break CoC to use it. Simple answer - you lower the intended population of the primary server while artificially inflating the population of the secondary server. Now do this with an organized squad as a "popular commander" with players joining from all over. It's a problem. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) The key term in this rule is " not actively participating in good faith ", aka not afk leeching. Things like deliberate sabotage by wasting supply or useless siege spam , or afk wall running to bypass timer would be considered not playing in good faith. Playing with multiple accounts is allowed, and trying to say that someone is trying to match manipulate merely by doing that is simply not enforceable. The key thing is intent. Being "selfish and inconsiderate" does not constitute rule breaking because that's highly subjective and it is not the player's job to manage player population. Especially when people disingenuously define selfish to mean ("You're selfish because you're not benefiting me" Just because you don't like the way they play, doesn't mean they're griefing. Also, if we strictly interpret griefing your team and not playing in good faith strictly , then most players (especially on these forums) would be banned from WvW so that isn't happening. Also this will be irrelevant in about 2 weeks anyways. Edited June 3 by ArchonWing.9480 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devastoscz.9851 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 25 minutes ago, Hellbound.5610 said: Simple answer - you lower the intended population of the primary server while artificially inflating the population of the secondary server. Now do this with an organized squad as a "popular commander" with players joining from all over. It's a problem. A map might empty out temporarily because a commander leaves, but that's just natural; it will fill up again with a new tag (also natural). Yes a tag leaving or coming in has an impact in the server's performance during the matchup. That much we can agree on. Now, saying someone is "fixing" a matchup because they chose to play on one server and not another is a big stretch. You're making very large assumptions there. First of all, what is the "intended" population of any given server? How is it "artificially inflating" the population of the second server if people already have alts there that they play? As for organized squads, you're taking a huge leap in logic there. The vast majority of players in organized guilds don't sync up and keep an alt in server B in case they need to match manipulate and will logoff 1 account to hop on another at a commander's snap of the fingers. Not in any significant numbers anyway. You paint a picture where there are commanders in this game who can just bark out "everyone on your alts in server X" at any given moment and a zerg of 50 will automatically follow them over. That doesn't happen. It just doesn't. People don't even care enough about winning/losing (mostly because it doesn't matter) to jump the hurdles (leveling, gearing, comping etc) for this to be achievable. The only thing I can conclude is you don't think people should be able to have alt accounts. That's a different debate, one in which I might even agree on to an extent. But in the current state of affairs, hopping on an alt and playing for that server does not constitute a CoC breach unless you're doing it for the explicit purpose of sabotage. And that has more to do with intent and specific actions that go well beyond just playing WvW on another server. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfofdivinity.6251 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Oh no...the jigs up guys. That dude at the top blew the whistle. Now everyone straighten up and fly right!!! There is no room for enjoyment or playing with friends on alt servers. You're money doesn't matter! Server pride blah blah blah. Get real bro. WvW is dead and anets dancing on its ashes. No one cares anymore about wvw. PLAYER HOUSING!!!!!! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingDawn.5796 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) Does it matter? Even 10 years ago it didn't matter. Whole guilds transferred servers, way before server linkings, weeks before wvw tournaments, partly thanks to anet. Edited June 4 by RisingDawn.5796 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 12 minutes ago, RisingDawn.5796 said: Does it matter? Even 10 years ago it didn't matter, whole guilds transferred servers, before server linkings, even before wvw tournaments, partly thanks to anet. Guilds transferring were manipulating matches because they were leaving their servers outnumbered. /sarcasm 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Does this mean that players who play on NA and have an alt on EU are manipulating all NA matches when they play on their EU account? Asking for a friend... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skub.8240 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I love when the queue for wvw is like, 20+ and when I finally get in there's like five to ten people at each of our forts just building catapults in every interior corner they can to waste all of the supplies, and not even trying to be subtle about why. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPotato.7456 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 another non-issue ... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 9 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said: Guilds transferring were manipulating matches because they were leaving their servers outnumbered. /sarcasm First of all: I don't think rule 23 is applicable to WvW and I think the OP's demands and conclusions are wrong. But of course it is a form of population manipulation or match manipulation (whatever you call it) when guilds completely hop from one server to another to overstack there. Which has happened quite often in recent years and still happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 10 hours ago, devastoscz.9851 said: How is it "artificially inflating" the population of the second server if people already have alts there that they play? Anet has explained several times in the past that not the total number of accounts on a server is counted when calculating the server population, but rather the activity (play hours in WvW) of the accounts in WvW. Accounts that have not been in WvW for a while (how long is Anet's secret) are not counted when calculating the server population. This is the case with the current system and will be the case later with the WR. So if you have an alt account that you don't actually play WvW with, but just log in regularly in WvW, it will be counted towards the population of the server that the alt account is on. The population of that server is inflated by one. And if you have an alt account that you haven't been in WvW with for a while, it will be considered inactive and will not be used by Anet for the server's population calculation. And if you then play regularly with this alt account after a population calculation, the account's server will be overstacked by one account (of course "overstacked" is an exaggeration here, it's just to demonstrate the principle). Normally, both effects balance each other out with "normal" player behavior. So no problem here. But if, for example, a guild with, say, 50-500 players creates another shadow guild that only includes the INACTIVE alt accounts of the players in the main guild, this shadow guild would be counted with a maximum of a handful of players in the next WR calculation of the population, if at all. And if this guild then stops playing with the previous main accounts after a WR calculation/reassignment and only plays with the alt account, the previous server on which the main accounts are now located has too few players and the new server on which the alt accounts/shadow guild are located has too many players and is overstacked. It is currently completely unclear whether the effects will balance each other out or lead to significant population imbalances. But I am pretty sure that a few guilds will try something like this. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) You guys are making a little mess here. You're talking about 2 different things as if they were the same thing. The first is: the same account jumping from one server to another for reasons of convenience and constantly playing in numerical superiority over the enemy, they are called transfers. and since the servers are matched it is a custom that rather large groups move to the secondary server (which being secondary has a large capacity to fill) in an organized and coordinated way, even in blocks of 50 or 100 active players with the explicit purpose of manipulating a game. The second is: same player who owns multiple accounts if different servers. Some of them do it just to be with multiple friends on different servers. They will run a little to one side and a little to the other, without any ill intentions. Others, on the other hand, exploit it in a coordinated and organized way. They use one or the other account with the purpose of lowering the thresholds of one team rather than raising the thresholds of another team. Or they do it to fill the enemy server with ghost players running against a wall. The objective is similar to the first. They want to make sure they are numerical superiority by the enemy. They're manipulating the game as well. now with the permanent beta in 2 weeks. The first issue is fixed (at least hopefully transfers will be blocked) while the second will continue to be a way of manipulating matches in the future. Whether this is a violation of the ANET rules I don't know, but it's definitely what has been happening every day at WVW for many years. Edited June 4 by Mabi black.1824 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbound.5610 Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 10 hours ago, krytical.3697 said: So this is what happened to you personally, you got your feelings hurt about it, scoured the TOS / CoC until you found some clause that you think applies, and posted it here hoping to get validated? Be sure to hit us back with a list of all the players you tattled on for having alt accounts. This is super important. No, actually, I posted the issue here because I was instructed by CS to do so. Also, I will certainly provide a status update with the list of players that get reported. ☺️ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now