Fear not, for each Alliance matchup will be better than the previous

[Chaba.5410]

9 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

An "alliance" for this implementation is a group of players who have put the same guild as their wvw guild. Therefore, the players created their team. Anet isn't splitting up the "alliances" guilds.

That isn't what he is talking about.

[T G.7496]

You are mixing terms of reference.

Players create Guilds.

There are no Alliances, technically.

Some new guilds have been created by players to come together expressly for the purpose of the new World Restructuring. We can call them alliance guilds. But these entities are limited in the same way as any other guild. This is the absolute limit of player agency.

Beyond this there are Teams.

The size of teams is unknown, but estimates have put it at several times the maximum size of a guild.

Anet create Teams.

Players have zero agency in the composition of the Team beyond the limits of the guild they select.

The terrible match making we are experiencing is the result of apparently terrible Team composition.

This is Anet's responsibility.

11 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

 

 

Edited June 24 by T G.7496

[Junkpile.7439]

Where you see these alliances? We have couple medium guilds and totally random pugs running around. There is probably one or two "alliances" in eu and rest of player have just selected own normal guild. 🤦‍♂️

[T G.7496]

12 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Where you see these alliances? We have couple medium guilds and totally random pugs running around. There is probably one or two "alliances" in eu and rest of player have just selected own normal guild. 🤦‍♂️

https://discord.com/invite/zVwYwUwd

[Hesione.9412]

3 hours ago, T G.7496 said:

You are mixing terms of reference.

Players create Guilds.

There are no Alliances, technically.

Some new guilds have been created by players to come together expressly for the purpose of the new World Restructuring. We can call them alliance guilds. But these entities are limited in the same way as any other guild. This is the absolute limit of player agency.

Beyond this there are Teams.

The size of teams is unknown, but estimates have put it at several times the maximum size of a guild.

Anet create Teams.

Players have zero agency in the composition of the Team beyond the limits of the guild they select.

The terrible match making we are experiencing is the result of apparently terrible Team composition.

This is Anet's responsibility.

 

The players created the mega guilds. These mega guilds are running over smaller guilds and roamers. Having multiple fight guilds team up into a mega guild is causing problems.

I don't care if peak NA is "balanced" for the mega guilds - I don't play during peak NA time.

[T G.7496]

20 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

The players created the mega guilds. These mega guilds are running over smaller guilds and roamers. Having multiple fight guilds team up into a mega guild is causing problems.

I don't care if peak NA is "balanced" for the mega guilds - I don't play during peak NA time.

Anet provided the means, expressly (and literally, with the new guild slot), for this purpose.

It is, therefore, presumably how they intend the game to be played.

The team-making and match-making so far has been a disaster, sadly.

But don't blame the players.

Blame Anet.

Edited June 24 by T G.7496

[Dawdler.8521]

4 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

The players created the mega guilds. These mega guilds are running over smaller guilds and roamers. Having multiple fight guilds team up into a mega guild is causing problems.

I don't care if peak NA is "balanced" for the mega guilds - I don't play during peak NA time.

But guilds did that before, for over a decade. No roamer has a hope in hell of beating a 30 man meta boonball guild raid, do they?

If they want to compete hardcore, well the point is that another team is supposed to challenge them. That’s literally what the tier system is and what WvW as a gameplay mode is regardless of roaming, small scaling, guild raiding or zerging. Yet people seem to just see their individual point of view.

[nonna.3296]

I have literally abandoned wvw since they implemented this new patch, the situation is ridiculous, I play alone because I have never found active guilds, and the result is I chose a well populated and well organized server in wvw but now this it's not possible, the wvw map is always empty during my gaming hours.GG

[disForm.2837]

One possible factor that may have skewed the algo are returning players. There are quite a few of them. These are, for the most part, experienced and skilled players, so they do make a difference. 

Old timers ofc picked stacked Alliances because that's where their old buddies are, older guilds. 

The algo simply didn't have info about these guys, so they counted as "zero". 

Not excusing Anet in any form. I was in the most loopsided matchup in NA on the first week. 45+ comped groups, meta comp, not the stuff in mettabattle *all day long*. Awful.

[One more for the road.8950]

1 hour ago, nonna.3296 said:

I have literally abandoned wvw since they implemented this new patch, the situation is ridiculous, I play alone because I have never found active guilds, and the result is I chose a well populated and well organized server in wvw but now this it's not possible, the wvw map is always empty during my gaming hours.GG

You never found an active guild but chose a server that was well populated and organized? Who do you think organized?

[manu.7539]

Not better at all for us this week, red team that came from the lower tier dominate the 2 other. Bad matchups.. except maybe for anet staff friends, idk 😕

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, manu.7539 said:

Not better at all for us this week, red team that came from the lower tier dominate the 2 other. Bad matchups.. except maybe for anet staff friends, idk 😕

EU T5? Red is just killing everywhere, all the borders. And it seems to be consistently higher during all hours so much more active population. TL;DR the team started in T6, went up to T5 but is still clearly nowhere near a T5 team. Whether blue and green is just that bad or red is that good is hard to tell unless one see what happen to them over the next few weeks. The problem when judging this is the exponential steamroller effect when neither team can challenge the third. Lyssa won a dominating victory in T6 too last week (only match both NA and EU with over 100 points difference).

If it's NA T4 well blue and green just seem to be absolutely feeding red on EBG in terms of kills, the other borders have similar KDR with red even loosing on them.

Edited June 24 by Dawdler.8521

[XenesisII.1540]

Well would you look at that... nothing has changed from before WR was made permanent. 😏

 

WR, sold as a population balancer, only it's worse, that team will eventually get to T1, but then everything gets reset, matches are constant fights against worlds you don't proper balance with, /rubshandstogether can't want to see what the scoring changes do to make it all even more unbalanced! 🤔

WvW - Where nothing is ever fair or balanced, and you will "feel good" and "be happy" about it bots. 🤭

[manu.7539]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

EU T5? Red is just killing everywhere, all the borders. And it seems to be consistently higher during all hours so much more active population. TL;DR the team started in T6, went up to T5 but is still clearly nowhere near a T5 team. Whether blue and green is just that bad or red is that good is hard to tell unless one see what happen to them over the next few weeks. The problem when judging this is the exponential steamroller effect when neither team can challenge the third. Lyssa won a dominating victory in T6 too last week (only match both NA and EU with over 100 points difference).

If it's NA T4 well blue and green just seem to be absolutely feeding red on EBG in terms of kills, the other borders have similar KDR with red even loosing on them.

NA T2 but yeah NA T4 is in a similar situation, about ppt I mean. Our kdr isnt bad but thats only because most of our tags avoid fights at all cost! Its probably the wise choice, we didnt fit at all in higher tiers.

[Dawdler.8521]

57 minutes ago, manu.7539 said:

NA T2 but yeah NA T4 is in a similar situation, about ppt I mean. Our kdr isnt bad but thats only because most of our tags avoid fights at all cost! Its probably the wise choice, we didnt fit at all in higher tiers.

NA T2 is currently 14 VPs between first and last place... which is similar to a couple other tiers, but they are nowhere near its almost flat KDR at 0.92-1.03. 

It is objectively the most balanced matchup in NA at this time.

[manu.7539]

20 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

NA T2 is currently 14 VPs between first and last place... which is similar to a couple other tiers, but they are nowhere near its almost flat KDR at 0.92-1.03. 

It is objectively the most balanced matchup in NA at this time.

Well, statistically speaking we dont look that bad but the stats doesnt show whats happening on the battlefield. Our tags are doing an amazing job at ppting while avoiding fights coz when comes the time to fight we dont have the numbers and organization to compete. We played this boring way for the past 2 weeks coz we dont really have any other choice 😕

[One more for the road.8950]

17 minutes ago, manu.7539 said:

Well, statistically speaking we dont look that bad but the stats doesnt show whats happening on the battlefield. Our tags are doing an amazing job at ppting while avoiding fights coz when comes the time to fight we dont have the numbers and organization to compete. We played this boring way for the past 2 weeks coz we dont really have any other choice 😕

So... what people have always done when meeting too hard opposition.

[manu.7539]

17 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

So... what people have always done when meeting too hard opposition.

So.. I taught WR was to get us some more balanced matchups. If you lose 2-3 weeks before getting in a fair matchup then WR is a fail.

 

Pardon my french, guess I'm confused a little about the meaning of matchup. Seems that is what happen when we relink, I taught it meant the teams fighting each other.

Edited June 24 by manu.7539

[Mistwraithe.3106]

2 hours ago, manu.7539 said:

Well, statistically speaking we dont look that bad but the stats doesnt show whats happening on the battlefield. Our tags are doing an amazing job at ppting while avoiding fights coz when comes the time to fight we dont have the numbers and organization to compete. We played this boring way for the past 2 weeks coz we dont really have any other choice 😕

That's fascinating that T2 NA feels that bad. It looks great, very balanced K/D ratio and pretty close on VP too.

Try T5 NA where my team (Throne of Balthazar) has 0.52 K/D ratio, or T3 NA where Tombs of Drascir has 1.87 K/D ratio (but is still doing poorly in VP because they obviously are fight guilds who are just enjoying massacring their opponents and don't care about PPT).

 

[joneirikb.7506]

Regarding WR and balance:
* It's supposed to fix/improve "population"
* It doesn't have any ways to control how good people are on each team (skill)
* The main system they have in place for seeing if Teams are balance is Points
* So Points and moving through tiers is still required to move Teams around to find "better matched" match-ups

So by the metrics ANet have, your match-up is considered balanced.

[Dawdler.8521]

7 hours ago, manu.7539 said:

So.. I taught WR was to get us some more balanced matchups.

What’s your definition of a balanced matchup for your side then? Having the best PPT and PPK while winning? 

[Junkpile.7439]

K/D isn't accurate because old wsr bots killing own alts somewhere
🤔

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

Don't forget to also look deeper than just k/d, the kill totals reveal a good bit more, especially the matches where one server has more kills than the other two combined.

[T G.7496]

They need to develop much, much better ways of analysing and utilising the data - that they must have available now - in the composition of Teams.

But, we have to accept that however much better they might get at this, week-1 of a relink is always going to be a bit of a shitshow. It's kinda unavoidable.

They then might consider adopting a Swiss Tournament approach, going in to week-2, in an attempt to accelerate the speed at which Teams might find more evenly balanced MUs.

They might also consider reducing the membership limit of guilds which can be selected as a WvW guild. But this last item is gonna break eggs and lead to confusion all over the place at this point. I still think they should do it, though.

Edited June 26 by T G.7496

[TheGrimm.5624]

What's weird is the EU T5 (71 hour lead) and NA T4 (46 hour lead). So 2 links that were just placed in the wrong tier and facing those coming down making the numbers worse? Or what?