Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Mesmer [Merged]

[StraightPath.3972]

I only got to try it a little, because i was away during weekend, and while I had forum access I did not have game access.
Still it felt really nice on Mirage. The Ambush skill feels great as does empowered 5.

I can imagine other Mesmer Specs will be less happy because that ambush is really that great.
Still out of the spears I tried (Warr, Necro) this one feels like the one that needs the least kinks worked out.

Edited July 1 by StraightPath.3972

[Curunen.8729]

Gutted I did not have time to play the beta this time. 😞

So I can't comment on much aside from visuals (not even audio as really need headphones for that).

The one thing that stuck out for me as being a problem is the flash effect on auto hits. It's quite strong, like constant fireworks - not sure if turning down some effects would make it more pleasant as it may be mild headache inducing after a while. Even the ambush flash seemed a bit painful from videos.

 

And maybe one more thing - I stupidly thought on the preview that skill 5 would be ground targeted, and then see that it's not. As much as I hate (really hate) excessive ground targeting, I think having skill 5 be ground targeted 600 range port+aoe damage would really help with some positional play and play well with mirage, jaunt/blink and other ground targeted ports. Spear already has an enemy engage on the phantasm.

[Xaylin.1860]

I tested all Spears in a rather casual PvE setting. So this is more of a first impression than a thorough assessment.

Overall, I probably enjoyed Thief and Mesmer the most. Mesmer Spear has maybe the prettiest new effects without being too overbearing as, for example, the etchings on Elementalist. I also think that the Spear is quite interesting for most power builds, leaving aside the constant disappointment of the half-baked Blade-affix for Virtuosos. The weapon felt great and has a good mixture of tools.

Still, there is room for improvement. Some things, that I thought of:

• Add Weakness on additional skill aside from AA, maybe base #5
• Consider having a ranged AA switch over for Mesmer as well, at least for 600. This would be very helpful in 1 vs. 1 scenarios where you'd like to keep you opponent at range until you land #2. An alternative could be a more conal AA for Spear.
• If there is no range compontent added to the AA, some sort of partial #2 reset (e.g. -1s CD) or even Clarity at the end of the Chain could make the weapon less shoe-horned when facing few enemies at a time.

Not directly related to Spear, but... at this point MH Sword feels so dead. I wouldn't know if I picked it unless I desperately needed a specific OH weapon in a power build and there it might still be Dagger despite it being a damage stick. It feels that this becomes even worse for power Mirage. I appretiate the unique damage modifier, but I'm not sure it is a good idea to attach it to Spear. Attaching Alacrity to Staff should have been lesson enough.

Edited July 1 by Xaylin.1860

[Noro.2879]

14 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

We give detailed feedback only because we know there’s no way in hell they’ll ever delete Clarity. But deleting Clarity and make everything baseline is exactly what Mesmer Spear needs.

I don’t fcking understand why every time they introduce a new weapon, they have to bend themselves backward trying to cramp in a random gimmick. What’s even wrong with a good old-fashioned simple bonk stick? Press button, it does damage, that’s it. Simplicity is a kind of beauty too.

Maybe Spellbreaker is more your style

[Malande.8502]

First experience and useless weapon in competitive play. Gets totally steamrolled by builds with sustain/damage combined as usual. But I'm not giving up hope that someone more gifted than me will show me the way, even if I don't really believe it.

[Josif.2015]

Psycut, Psystrike, Mind Pierce: no changes needed.
Mind the Gap: make it so you gain Clarity regardless if you hit enemies with the outer edge.
Imaginary Inversion: reduce or remove the healing after you evade an attack. This skill is the same Blurred Frenzy (sword 2), but better. You have a shorter cast time, but still a 1 second evasion, you can hit 5 enemies instead of 3, you heal if you evade an attack and you remove 2 conditions if you have Clarity.
Phantasmal Lancer: no changes needed.
Mental Collapse: reduce the stun duration if you have Clarity from 3 to 2 seconds.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Josif.2015 said:

Psycut, Psystrike, Mind Pierce: no changes needed.
Mind the Gap: make it so you gain Clarity regardless if you hit enemies with the outer edge.
Imaginary Inversion: reduce or remove the healing after you evade an attack. This skill is the same Blurred Frenzy (sword 2), but better. You have a shorter cast time, but still a 1 second evasion, you can hit 5 enemies instead of 3, you heal if you evade an attack and you remove 2 conditions if you have Clarity.
Phantasmal Lancer: no changes needed.
Mental Collapse: reduce the stun duration if you have Clarity from 3 to 2 seconds.

Blurred frenzy is better than spear 3, cd is lot shorter. No one cares about the healing nor anyone uses clarity with it when the alternative is a stun or more damage.

[Bloodwine.6450]

Spear on Mesmer feels fantastic, the only negative feedback I can provide concerns Mind the Gap.

The gameplay of forcing the Mesmer to be at a certain distance to capitalise on the Clarity effect it provides felt very janky and lacks cohesion with the other skills.

 As a WvW/PvPer mostly, I can't see myself landing too many Clarities on my opponent when you consider the fast paced positioning of players on the battlefield, ball groups being the exception.

An alternative I would like to see would be the following.

Mind the Gap provides Clarity if it deals damage regardless of the range, and attacking an opponent with the edge of the attack instead inflicts a 0.5 second Daze effect on any enemies hit.

 

Edited July 5 by Bloodwine.6450

[yoeri.9275]

5 hours ago, Bloodwine.6450 said:

Spear on Mesmer feels fantastic, the only negative feedback I can provide concerns Mind the Gap.

The gameplay of forcing the Mesmer to be at a certain distance to capitalise on the Clarity effect it provides felt very janky and lacks cohesion with the other skills.

 As a WvW/PvPer mostly, I can't see myself landing too many Clarities on my opponent when you consider the fast paced positioning of players on the battlefield, ball groups being the exception.

An alternative I would like to see would be the following.

Mind the Gap provides Clarity if it deals damage regardless of the range, and attacking an opponent with the edge of the attack instead inflicts a 0.5 second Daze effect on any enemies hit.

 

swapping the clearity with daze when hit with the outer edges, is allot better.
soft cc on quick CD for PvE, and punishment for bad positioning/reward for great timing in PvP/WvW.
wile giving clearity when hit with attack.

i like this sugjestion.

[st elmos fire.2987]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:23 AM, Bloodwine.6450 said:

Spear on Mesmer feels fantastic, the only negative feedback I can provide concerns Mind the Gap.

The gameplay of forcing the Mesmer to be at a certain distance to capitalise on the Clarity effect it provides felt very janky and lacks cohesion with the other skills.

 As a WvW/PvPer mostly, I can't see myself landing too many Clarities on my opponent when you consider the fast paced positioning of players on the battlefield, ball groups being the exception.

An alternative I would like to see would be the following.

Mind the Gap provides Clarity if it deals damage regardless of the range, and attacking an opponent with the edge of the attack instead inflicts a 0.5 second Daze effect on any enemies hit.

 

At first that sounded like a cool idea. But now I actually think that would be bad at least in pvp. The daze would mess up the long stun on spear 5 or any other stun or fear. I would want to do 2, 5, 2 and 4 combo. But the daze on 2 will break the stun and the opponent will be free to dodge all the rest of the stuff. Or if I use grav well the daze will give the opponent a chanse to dodge out of the grav well.

I would like to see the skill 4 make the mesmers attack inflict cripple too. If I have clarity skill 2 should give 2 clones. Skill 2 should give clarity if it does damage at any range or make the range bigger so the outer edge part becomes bigger. 5 should be a ground targeted skill. 3 should always remove condi and give the healing if you have clarity. If you want to go crazy with the buffs then make 5 give 3/4 sec evade and make clarity last 30 seconds instead of 15.

Those seem like nice mechanics for the skills imo. If bad or op just change numbers. I only speak from the PvP point of view.

[st elmos fire.2987]

23 hours ago, st elmos fire.2987 said:

If I have clarity skill 2 should give 2 clones. 

Or make it give like 6s revealed on hit with clarity. 🤯 

Or revealed could be a cool thing to have on some new trait that could replace one of those useless ones. 

[ascii.1369]

Well, I guess I'm gonna revive this thread again since I just can't stop thinking about what it actually is that makes spear feel so weird. I realized that the issue is this: A weapon should feel fluid and fun to play baseline and feel even more fluid/fun/powerfull when you play it properly, taking full advantage of its mechanics. Spear feels fairly fluid and fun baseline, although some improvements could be made as outlined in here. The issue is that taking full advantage of its mechanics doesn't make it feel even more fun, it suddenly makes it feel clunky and unfun. If you want to give a weapon a more complex, playstyle defining mechanic it should not feel like a chore to use it. It should be something players are encouraged to do because it feels rewarding.

Edited July 12 by ascii.1369

[Jeyzer.1605]

On 7/5/2024 at 2:23 AM, Bloodwine.6450 said:

Mind the Gap provides Clarity if it deals damage regardless of the range, and attacking an opponent with the edge of the attack instead inflicts a 0.5 second Daze effect on any enemies hit.

Honestly, I do like the Spear as is and think it fills a lot of needs for Mesmer (better than GS for burst melee swap in instanced PvE, and solid WvW zerg or sPvP melee weapon).

But I like this suggestion a LOT. Not only because Clarity is indeed awkward to get in 1v1s, but a 0.5s daze does not seem excessive / balance breaking either. 

The main reason I like this though, is that if you don't need to hit the edge for Clarity anymore, they'll likely change the Illusionary Ambush interaction to match Spear Ambush range.

For context, on every other weapon, Illusionary Ambush teleports you in a random location, within the range of your ambush. So using it with GS means you TP on a random position, 50-1200 range from the target, while Axe will always TP you within 50-200 range of your target (making it a LOT more reliant on short range weapons). 

From my testing (no confirmation, but that's what I've observed), they special cased Illusionary Ambush so it TPs you exactly 300 range away from your target if you use it while wielding a Spear. This way you can immediately use Mind the Gap and hit with the outer radius to get Clarity, which is important and why they special cased it. Problem is that you also get Mirage Cloak, but you're sitting outside of your Ambush radius (240 range), which is... awkward. 

 

Edited July 12 by Jeyzer.1605

[Salt Mode.3780]

The only thing spear has is some built-in mobility, aside from that especially for Mirage GS is still better, why? First of all, s1 is a ranged non-projectile, ambush gives them vuln and gives you might stacks which increases the damage exponentially. The clarity thing is awkward to use as hell due to positioning. I don't see how this is better than GS for the most part. How is it possible that release weapons are still functionally better than recent ones with all this so-called compiled data? 

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Spear Ambush gives you +15% strike damage bonus, which stacks on top of the 25 Might stacks and 25 Vulnerability stacks. In an instanced PvE setting where support players always pump you with 25 Might and Vulnerability is always capped at 25, GS Ambush is worse than Spear Ambush.

Not to mention Spear Ambush damage is inherently stronger damage-wise than GS Ambush. It could be the foundation for a possible Power DPS Mirage build, while GS Mirage still remains strictly an open world farming build.

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Spear Ambush gives you +15% strike damage bonus, which stacks on top of the 25 Might stacks and 25 Vulnerability stacks. In an instanced PvE setting where support players always pump you with 25 Might and Vulnerability is always capped at 25, GS Ambush is worse than Spear Ambush.

Not to mention Spear Ambush damage is inherently stronger damage-wise than GS Ambush. It could be the foundation for a possible Power DPS Mirage build, while GS Mirage still remains strictly an open world farming build.

 

I am talking about competitive play but in solo world PvE gs is still better, the only time spear might be better is in instanced content where you have boons up at all time.

[mirage.8046]

On 7/2/2024 at 12:12 PM, Josif.2015 said:

Psycut, Psystrike, Mind Pierce: no changes needed.
Mind the Gap: make it so you gain Clarity regardless if you hit enemies with the outer edge.
Imaginary Inversion: reduce or remove the healing after you evade an attack. This skill is the same Blurred Frenzy (sword 2), but better. You have a shorter cast time, but still a 1 second evasion, you can hit 5 enemies instead of 3, you heal if you evade an attack and you remove 2 conditions if you have Clarity.
Phantasmal Lancer: no changes needed.
Mental Collapse: reduce the stun duration if you have Clarity from 3 to 2 seconds.

Exactly how is this supposed to help spear? I'm confused.

Let's not diminish the rewards for clarity in the first place. 

[Windwalker.7421]

How about a 5s Clarity standard when not hitting the outer ring, and full duration when you do?  Would make the whole thing feel a lot less hit-or-miss.  It felt like a really nice weapon overall, but I just returned to the game after a 6 year hiatus, so I can't really comment on how effective it is in PvP.  It did feel clunky as many others have stated, that the ranges between the skills do not make sense.  

On the same note I like the suggestion about MC at least giving a very short Daze when not under Clarity.  Also II should remove 2 condies base, and 3 empowered.

So yeah, the whole thing is neat, but way too much of a gamble to make it viable IMO.  (but I'm sure someone will prove that wrong, and the Spear will get heavy nerfs instead. /cry)

[Amantiel.3542]

Spear seems to suffer from "It does Greatsword's job, but worse".

[mungozen.2379]

I am really pleasantly surprised by the changes to Mesmer Spear:

Quote

 

Mesmer spear provided a unique gameplay pattern, and we were happy to see it find use in many places. The beta event gave us clarity about how we could make the weapon feel even better. The largest problem we got feedback on was that the weapon’s performance varied a lot depending on whether you had Clarity. Clarity will now be gained by hitting Mind the Gap, regardless of whether it was an outer-edge hit. But that outer edge will still be important! We’re updating the visual to better outline where that hitbox is, and the skill will still deal increased damage as well as a guaranteed critical hit on the outer edge.

Imaginary Inversion is also seeing a shift in how the skill functions. To help the consistency of the tools it brings, it will now always clear conditions from you at the start of casting, with no Clarity required. It will also heal you if you evade an attack, even if you don’t land the attack portion. Clarity will now increase this healing.

The final large change to the weapon concerns its phantasms. We saw in the beta that the lancers routinely got outplayed by terrain, whether that was a cliff or a small pebble. The lancers have taken a more vertical approach to their attack, and they will now jump in the air and launch a spear at their target instead. This spear will damage an area on impact, a much more reliable follow-up for the mesmer.

 

Sharp Lessons: Spear Beta Feedback Update – GuildWars2.com

Is this a first?  The first time in a long time at least that Mesmer community wholly disagreed with something and the devs listened?  Multiple changes requested here were implemented.  Yay team.

Edited August 7 by Mungo Zen.9364

[ascii.1369]

Well, credit where credit is due. I was sceptical about getting the changes we wanted and I was wrong. Well done Anet. The most important issue by far was fixed and I couldn't be happier, everything else is details. Thank you for listening.

[Curunen.8729]

Sounds good tbh, I'm pleasantly surprised with the changes.

[Gesbo.6420]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I am really pleasantly surprised by the changes to Mesmer Spear:

Sharp Lessons: Spear Beta Feedback Update – GuildWars2.com

Is this a first?  The first time in a long time at least that Mesmer community wholly disagreed with something and the devs listened?  Multiple changes requested here were implemented.  Yay team.

Praise Joko! Those changes seem great. I am thrilled again. 

With I think I'm confused with the phantasms now, do they leap at the target or do they just throw their spears and are left behind? 

Either ways can't wait for the release!

[mungozen.2379]

16 minutes ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

With I think I'm confused with the phantasms now, do they leap at the target or do they just throw their spears and are left behind? 

It sounds like the Phantasms jump straight up from spawn and throw the spear down to the targeted area as an AoE

[AshkyLicious.4729]

They actually listened to our feedback and made great changes to our spear! Looking forward to this expansion 🙂