THIEF :D

[chripsy.1027]

Can someone tell me:

How a deadeye can two shot me when I have 2500 toughness

AND

How can he stealth, reveal himself, attack me, AND THEN INSTANTLY STEALTH AGAIN 1 second later. I though there was a 3 or 4 second CD once they reveal?......

What absolute unbalanced nonsense is this????????

[kash.9213]

15 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Thief is indeed awfully overpowered in WvW if played by people who know what they are doing. There are some interactions/playstyles that are beyond degen. Reality is that balance team devs are way too incompetent to do something about it as the time has shown. If you want to get even more triggered, have a look at this peak of balance skill that exists: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Assault 🙃

There are some builds/skill designs that should never exist and yet they do... I wonder who is to blame 🤡

Can you list the builds you're talking about and what's wrong with them? Sounds like OP thinks Shadow Meld still works like it used to or something. That would be similar to the other post about a week or so ago where someone still though that trait removed Revealed. 

[manu.7539]

15 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

balance team devs are way too incompetent to do something about it

I dont think its incompetence, probably more like sadism. Toxic peoples enjoying toxicity, what else it could be?

[cryorion.9532]

2 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Can you list the builds you're talking about and what's wrong with them? Sounds like OP thinks Shadow Meld still works like it used to or something. That would be similar to the other post about a week or so ago where someone still though that trait removed Revealed. 

Basically all the extremely mobile builds where thief can just vanish if they don't want to lose. Or, my favorite, Vault spam from stealth with Shadow Portal to port back to Narnia after targets somehow survive and fight back, mmm.

[kash.9213]

13 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Basically all the extremely mobile builds where thief can just vanish if they don't want to lose. Or, my favorite, Vault spam from stealth with Shadow Portal to port back to Narnia after targets somehow survive and fight back, mmm.

So that's a no. Anyway.

[cryorion.9532]

Just now, kash.9213 said:

So that's a no. Anyway.

I don't want to waste too much time on this. I think it is pretty obvious that thief is problematic and just beacuse willbender is fotm and can somewhat threaten thieves doesn't mean thief is ok. Let's not be delusional.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Can you list the builds you're talking about and what's wrong with them? 

Well, here's one thing that is wrong, not build, but skill - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmisher's_Shot

This should be split and not use PVE coefficient. Also for the damage it does on very low init, one can just wait for shield, reflect etc to wear off and 2-3 Skirmisher's Shot and DJ easy.

[CafPow.1542]

I learned that those super mobile builds (thiefs and willys) are best ignored.

i don’t even engage them. If they engage me i try to get away. When i survive their first burst they usually give up cause they start to drop aswell on their glascannon builds.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

6 hours ago, chripsy.1027 said:

Can someone tell me:

How a deadeye can two shot me when I have 2500 toughness

AND

How can he stealth, reveal himself, attack me, AND THEN INSTANTLY STEALTH AGAIN 1 second later. I though there was a 3 or 4 second CD once they reveal?......

What absolute unbalanced nonsense is this????????

Have you fought axe teef yet? Another bs that wants to make you hit something with chair.
A-net didn't bother to fix stealth for like 12 years now, so don't expect anything from them. Need to wait for better game or just play chess.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

9 hours ago, chripsy.1027 said:

How can he stealth, reveal himself, attack me, AND THEN INSTANTLY STEALTH AGAIN 1 second later. I though there was a 3 or 4 second CD once they reveal?......

When stealth runs out by itself then you don't get revealed. If you have good timing you can use dagger 5 (Cloak and Dagger) to immediately go back into stealth when you come out of it.

[felincyriac.5981]

this game probably has one of the worst implementations of stealth. Sad they are adding even more stealth stuff with the spears.

Edited July 3 by felincyriac.5981

[TheGrimm.5624]

Oh sorry mis-tell, I thought this was the new willy thread. My bad, keep at it. Wait is this the Ele thread?

Edited July 3 by TheGrimm.5624

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

When stealth runs out by itself then you don't get revealed. If you have good timing you can use dagger 5 (Cloak and Dagger) to immediately go back into stealth when you come out of it.

Same thing with HS.

Pistol 5+HS targeted, untarget and HS again and again.

Repeat to infinity, you won't ever leave stealth and eventually you'll kill your target. Fun times.

[bq pd.2148]

7 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Well, here's one thing that is wrong, not build, but skill - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmisher's_Shot

This should be split and not use PVE coefficient. Also for the damage it does on very low init, one can just wait for shield, reflect etc to wear off and 2-3 Skirmisher's Shot and DJ easy.

are you sure that is the case?
if you compare the version history with the updates they are based on, you would see that until februrary 2023, the coef. was 0.8 in all modes.
then feb. 14 2023 it got a buff in PvE to 1.0  but the wiki did not have it listed as a split.
recently it was nerfed in PvP from 0.8 down to 0.7, thats when a split was added for PvP.

now it should be PvE: 1.0, WvW: 0.8, PvP: 0.7 ..the wiki might be slightly misleading if one only takes a glance.

as for waiting for shields/reflects to wear off..with some builds that might take quite a while. i have seen plenty cele revs swap in ventari whenever i ran into them with a range weapon after a single fight, which makes them practically unkillable by projectiles.

[chripsy.1027]

5 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

When stealth runs out by itself then you don't get revealed. If you have good timing you can use dagger 5 (Cloak and Dagger) to immediately go back into stealth when you come out of it.

That is the most game breaking BS I have ever heard..... The devs are on actual crack.

[bq pd.2148]

5 minutes ago, chripsy.1027 said:

That is the most game breaking BS I have ever heard..... The devs are on actual crack.

most game breaking?
it has been like that since forever and yet it doesn't see much play, why do you think that is?

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, chripsy.1027 said:

That is the most game breaking BS I have ever heard..... The devs are on actual crack.

If it's Cloak and Dagger, they're right there with you, and they have to connect. I'd rather change dumb stuff like Silent Scope. 

16 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

I don't want to waste too much time on this. I think it is pretty obvious that thief is problematic and just beacuse willbender is fotm and can somewhat threaten thieves doesn't mean thief is ok. Let's not be delusional.

A few build options are problematic. The class itself is just is just an easy target to let you cope. Whenever people are shown that Stealth wasn't what dropped them, they'll bring up mobility, but that's the main form of mitigation in a game mode with excessive rate of offensive plus defensive output that thieves generally don't have. You and no one else will give up any of your options or advantages but you're quick to cry about anything that doesn't stand still for you or is self nerfed enough for the build you don't want to adjust. 

Edited July 3 by kash.9213

[Vyseman.2947]

Stealth  or Reveal is also bugged. I use a skill with 6sec Reveal and the Thief can go instantly in stealth.... so yeah.. for what do i use a 6s Reveal again? opppsii xd 

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

A few build options are problematic. The class itself is just is just an easy target to let you cope. Whenever people are shown that Stealth wasn't what dropped them, they'll bring up mobility, but that's the main form of mitigation in a game mode with excessive rate of offensive plus defensive output that thieves generally don't have. You and no one else will give up any of your options or advantages but you're quick to cry about anything that doesn't stand still for you or is self nerfed enough for the build you don't want to adjust. 

Ah yes, the classic "Thief doesn't have what others have so they need absolutely busted mobility and stealth spam to remain competetive!" and "It's not the thief, it's you, just git gut bro, adjust your build!"

[Chaba.5410]

11 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Ah yes, the classic "Thief doesn't have what others have so they need absolutely busted mobility and stealth spam to remain competetive!" and "It's not the thief, it's you, just git gut bro, adjust your build!"

You're describing basic core profession design across all professions though.  Of course it is "classic".  Squishy classes with low base HP and lower armor weights are given high mobility skills, evade skills, etc. in place of high armor, high base HP, etc.  Other professions without a lot of mobility or evades tend to have higher armor or base HP or even things like 2nd HP bars.  It's what gives each profession their "flavor" or playstyle feeling.

Edited July 3 by Chaba.5410

[cryorion.9532]

8 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Again, if that's how you have to cope. No one claimed all thief builds weren't problematic, but you're just crying if you claim all of them are. Grow up. 

Overtuned mobility and stealth spam is the main reason problematic thief builds are problematic, to make things simpler.

13 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You're describing basic core profession design across all professions though.  Of course it is "classic".  Squishy classes with low base HP and lower armor weights are given high mobility skills, evade skills, etc. in place of high armor, high base HP, etc.  Other professions without a lot of mobility or evades tend to have higher armor or base HP or even things like 2nd HP bars.  It's what gives each profession their "flavor" or playstyle feeling.

This got out of control years ago.

[kash.9213]

11 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Overtuned mobility and stealth spam is the main reason problematic thief builds are problematic, to make things simpler.

This got out of control years ago.

The mobility is tuned to everything else. If you need a crutch, just say so. The mobility is the main thing that keeps me up in zerg fights, but it still struggles. You'll try to claim that that's different from 1v1 or small scale, but it carries over. If the mobility was overtuned, then you'd see squads filled with thieves, because people here like to claim that there's all that mobility on top of massive damage, so thieves would be unstoppable. You need to review the wacky stuff you're saying because all of the complaints in these threads don't add up in reality. 

[CafPow.1542]

Thieves are generally not that big of a problem. Sometimes they win, and sometimes they disengage.

the real reason i personally get salty is when i outplay a thief (happens sometimes) and he nust runs away. There is no way to catch him even if you play a thief yourself. So it’s pointless to fight them.

same goes with willys.

[Gop.8713]

Outcomes in this game are build dependent. It will never be skill based. You could 'fix' thief and it would just highlight the problems with the next spec and on down the line. Accept it and move on . . .

[kash.9213]

49 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Thieves are generally not that big of a problem. Sometimes they win, and sometimes they disengage.

the real reason i personally get salty is when i outplay a thief (happens sometimes) and he nust runs away. There is no way to catch him even if you play a thief yourself. So it’s pointless to fight them.

same goes with willys.

Stealth access and output are convoluted at this point and needs a simplification. It's too easy to use and within budget on some builds that don't really need it, while it's nearly non existent or too many steps or too costly on some builds that could use it for team barrier or whatever. It should also be a bigger decision to use in a fight and not allow the user to be combat ready right away if they used it to dip without using a Stealth Attack. 

Especially in a quasi open world mode, that should be about masking map travel direction and setting up risky but effective openers. On some builds, it's what can compound something like mobility, especially if it's too easy like Silent Scope dodge + Death's Retreat or something. I also just might be salty that my main template doesn't get to use it much.

Edited July 3 by kash.9213