Story is an absolute slog

[Nosy.2056]

There are plenty of ppl telling, they didn't like SotO story and enjoyed the Janthir Prologue quite a bit.

How? In the first stages of SotO you

Spoiler

sneaked into a camp, learned about the astral ward and even fought Cerus.

3 hours of Janthir so far and it's only speech bubbles.

Let me experience the story myself. This is not a light novel, it's a game. Give me story bits while I'm exploring the area - I don't like reading/listening to voiced dictionaries and I would think ppl who bought a DLC of a game would feel similarly.

[Nosy.2056]

20 hours ago, Noidea Incognito.9607 said:

Eh... wouldn't that be the same like saying:

"As a PVE player that isn't invested in Direct confrontation versus other players, this was an absolute drag. If you want to bring PvE players into WvW and PvP, at least make it fun, instead, i'm forced to fight other players that I have no interest in.

Imo this comparison lacks a bit.
I'm a PvE and WvW player. There is storydriven content and competetive one, each of which can be designed boring or engaging. It obviously depends on what one expects, too.

Take for example as PvE player you have to go into WvW for the Warclaw and would have to defeat 1k players to get it - PvE players prolly wouldn't be happy about it. If you give it a bit of lore and a collection where you would have to do different things, well that's a bit different.

Even I as a PvE player who has enjoyed most of the story content so far and was pretty sure I know what I get into with this can't play the Janthir prologue without alt+tabbing at every single dialog. It has been shoved down my throat this much, that I simply can't take it anymore. If they would let us engage with the area, mobs and events and give us story bits through actual content instead by hours worth of speech bubbles, I'm pretty sure I would have enjoyed it.

I'm happy plenty of ppl enjoy it but boy do I hate how this has gone for the ppl that don't.

[Nosy.2056]

lol ppl reacting with confused emoji without making a single constructive point 👏

edit: at least I got a sad face this time. So it's not only bots I guess

edit2: now I get confused emojis on comments from years ago,  where I praised Anet for opting into GeforceNow for example. What hurt ego do ppl need to have to act this pitiful. Keep at it lads, gimme all your emojis - I can take it 🤣

Edited August 22 by Nosy.2056
reacting to reactions

[Klypto.1703]

I'm going to laugh if shortly after this they start showing GW3 trailers.  They would have to pay me just to play this thing they call an expansion lol.

[Shorra.7256]

Oh Oh Oh . Can't wait until they go through the story. People thought the intro was a dialog slog? *Whistles* 80% talking , 20% Fighting

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The story is really small this time, even smaller than soto, finished it in two days and had numerous breaks due to boringness because gatekeeping story behind rifts and hearts is meta now.
As someone said it here, this really is two living story episodes sold as an xpac.

[ShatteredStars.6548]

On 8/21/2024 at 11:46 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

When you lack content you've to artificially pump up the gameplay time, they've done it with soto too.

he said the first chapter.

[ShatteredStars.6548]

We get it, all the people who don't like the story, just want to farm gold and complain, some are clearly so entitled, they believe they shouldn't have to play the story to get anything, what it sounds like to me.

Edited August 23 by ShatteredStars.6548

[Gehenna.3625]

I liked the story at the beginning so the prologue and act 1. But act 2 really was a slog for me as well. I think I was in chapter 8 and thought to myself "how long is this going to go on still?"

It didn't help that they used green bars and hearts as part of the story progression and...

Spoiler

I was very disappointed that we had to fight those two Titan bosses twice and both times theygot away, without us being able to kill at least one of them. And the first round we got them down to 25% in individual fights each before WE fled. Like what on earth is the logic of fleeing when you're winning? And the second time when we fought them together we got them both down to 10% and then THEY fled and then there was this wall blocking us and we got the choice whether we would continue chasing or desist. But there was not choice because the wall was up. And all of it was because of "the safety of Poky". No wonder he was so upset.

All in all it was just a disappointing end of Chapter 2 which dragged on too long for me.

[Axelteas.7192]

I ended up burned out of closing rifts in Soto... And now in chapter 2 I'm forced to do it again?? Please NO!!!

[Nosy.2056]

21 hours ago, ShatteredStars.6548 said:

We get it, all the people who don't like the story, just want to farm gold and complain, some are clearly so entitled, they believe they shouldn't have to play the story to get anything, what it sounds like to me.

It's not about gold farms, entitlement to get something they didn't deserve because they don't want to play the content (story) or unbased complaints. It's about ppl, who bought the same DLC as everyone else here, played the story for a bit and didn't like it. Plenty complaints are about the way the story is told for example. This is a completely fine and constructive critisicm, which Anet may or may not improve on. Some ppl complain that the story, which probably they don't enjoy because of the storytelling, is not skippable. Also completely valid. Again Anet may or may not implement this.

In the end, you personally shouldn't be effected in a negative way, if Anet improves aspects of the game based on critisicm. Actually everyone would benefit if it comes to an overall better experience, no?

Maybe you can elobarate further how gold farms and entitlement are connected to storytelling/-pacing if I missed the point.

[otto.5684]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:38 PM, illuminati.8453 said:

Oh wow, I had the exact opposite reaction.  I *hated* soto, but this is a return to form imo. After you finish the story, there is nothing but action, farming, metas, etc.  This is a breath of fresh air! 

This is exactly why I play GW2 and not Sims. I spent ~2 hour in Janthir and was bored to death. Besides that the story was a total slog, the first map is semi empty. Just filling the exp bar for unlocking the spear took forever. And after I unlocked I dunno if I want to ever go there again.

And the dissonance of being told Janthir is so dangerous and yet it only had a bunch of poor animals. I felt more threatened in Queens Dale.

[Ixus.7912]

I think all is doing fine. A lot better than SoTO and the introduction is well designed for old and new players. Portal scroll will come soon. I'm loving all in fact, dude... they GAVE us Warclaw and a house! This Alaskan map like are doing very nice, titans fit well as enemies, old pals in the fight with us again, kodans rocks... I fell a redemption for SoTO, actually.

[Hyperlynx.6429]

OP is right, and I even enjoyed the Tyrian Alliance stuff.

Why did you force us to listen to all this mind-numbing tedium? And then listen to lectures about claws and maps and whatnot? And then fight the same warclaw three times? And then droning stories from the bears who all. talk. so. slowly?

And then the guy who gives you the homestead has to tell you his entire life's story?

What are you doing? Why are you doing this?

If you want to write lots of story then go nuts, but don't force players to sit through it. You didn't in the Zhaitain campaign, Heart of Thorns, Path of Fire, End of Dragons or any of the Living World episodes, and they were great. You started to in Secrets of the Obscure, and it sucked then as well. Why?

You need to make your long monologues be optional things we can trigger, not mandatory lectures we have to sit through.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:14 PM, Anomander.9347 said:

Oh my god. I sat waiting for one of the bears to finish his brain numbing story in the intro and I was seriously contemplating logging off and uninstalling, I was so pissed. This is SO boring. It feels like you guys padded everything with boring story exposition followed by: a) clicking on objects b) clicking on npcs c) an ambush. This right here is the absolute worst of MMORPGs. Please do better.

Not gonna lie, it literally took me nearly 2 hours to do just the intro to JW "including achievements to read/talk to things" before even loading into the map to be able to breath and take in the atmosphere of the expansion. And most of that 2 hours was spent listening to NPCs talk to each other. That's nearly as long as the full movie Furiosa, which I had streaming in the background while running just the JW intro. I was like.. "why?" I mean, that's just too long for an intro of pure listening to NPCs talk. By the time it was over, I already felt like I wanted to take a break, and that is something I've never felt during a GW2 expansion release.

Look, I don't want to come down on Arenanet for these pve things. I do enjoy the content. But there are a handful of things that need to be said.

I'll try to keep it simple:

1. A good intro should last maybe 15-20 minutes at the most. Then let us load freely into the new zone so we can take in the environment. That moment of loading the new zone, is where the RP magic & immersion happens. Don't put players into a situation where they are tired of listening to NPCs before they even load into the new expansion.
2. Dialogue and story is GREAT. But try to remember what is important to say and what isn't. If we are going to assault some bad guys, have the NPC say: "Here's what we're going to do. I go this way, you go that way, and let's nail them." The NPC does not need to say: "Here's what we're going to do, I'm going to go this way and use the sword that my father gave me that he worked 20 years to build and it is a family heirloom that my mother once used to slay a dragon and I was sad when we lost it, but then I found it again, and my feet really hurt after looking for it. But I'll go this way and you go that way, and we'll attack this guy. Then afterwards maybe we can have lunch and I can tell you some more about the shoes I just bought and how I want to wear them to my sister's wedding next week." I mean like seriously though. There is a ton of dialogue in JW that I felt was really really unnecessary filler that was waaaaay too much filler, to where players are sitting there thinking, why do we need to hear any of this? I never felt that way with previous content.
3. Also, enough of the elongated standing around sessions while listening to the NPCs with nothing else to do but stand around. If the dialogue is direct and meaningful, it's not that big of a deal. But when it draaaags on and you're just idle listening to a 10 minute speech that honestly could be compressed into a 2 minute speech, it just makes people lose immersion and get distracted. If you want to add a lot of extra dialogue, do it like it was done in the Deepstone fractal. <- This is a perfect example of 2 NPCs talking to each other and telling a story about something that is entirely unrelated to the fractal at hand, but it's ok because the players are actively playing and fighting and solving puzzles while listening to it. THAT situation is ok. But making players stand there over and over at nearly every instance to slog through a 15 minute speech from NPCs where you stand in a room and can't move, this just gets to be like "why?" Unless the dialogue is very important, learn to keep it shorter.
4. People do not care about the life story of every NPC they come across, especially when it's seriously like 3 to 5 minutes of dialogue that you can't cancel or skip, every time you have to interact with that NPC. It's not to be offensive, but seriously though, just have them get to the point. People like hearing characters like Zojja or Caithe talk for 5+ minutes. People do not like listening to a new NPC they have no attachment to, that isn't even a mainstream part of the story, for any longer than about 30s. And that is the truth. Again, if it's an NPC telling a story in the middle of a live event where we are doing things and stimulated, that's GREAT. In that case we like the dialogue. But when it's an NPC doing this and making us stand still and listen to him for 5+ minutes while unable to cancel or skip, this stuff starts to add up when every random NPC does this to us, and it's just too much.
5. Some of the original releases are well known and notorious for having elongated cutscenes where NPCs talk and you have to listen. But at least in those older releases, the dialogue felt well placed and not filler. This dialogue in JW feels like it's 4x longer than it needs to be, most of the way through it actually. This one feeling of "good god I don't want to listen to all that NPC dialogue that I"ve already heard again" is the ONE biggest reason why most players will under no circumstances, ever play through a story twice. And this could easily be changed if you guys would just allow us to skip NPC talk after the first time we've completed a content. That would be amazing.

That being said, I have enjoyed JW and it wasn't that anything was BAD. But the dialogue really was way too sloggish, just like the OP described.

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

Surprised testing missed this. lot of people are complaining about this

[zeldara.4127]

I enjoyed the story talk the first time. The second time it was rather long for a rewatch. The 3th time I really wish there was a skip button. Not because I do not like the story... i absolutely do... but I already know it so the lenght gets annoying.

Please add skip button. 

[Kunavi.2407]

I was so frustrated that during my 2nd play through I timed it around the 7th chapter... Ish. And there was a peak point where you literally sit there listening to mostly Kodan NPCs I give no F about(Since they feel so forced on me) yap incessantly for nearly 40ish minutes with the only break being having to interact with some Blood Stone pylons and kill 1-2 ghosts that guard them. Mind you, that's the worst part but the other parts have similarly Hellish amounts of exposition and torturously bad pacing. Some things were jarring too, especially how we acquire our new homes...

Even so, I'm all right with all that(FFXIV's made me patient so I wouldn't lose my mind during story)... But the damned BEARS. They talk sooooooo much, sooooo often, for things I couldn't care less and have nothing to do with me beyond a very shallow level. I didn't even earn their trust really, we're not friends even! Why are they info dumping so hard and so slow? It was grating, I was mentally checked out 80% of the time on 1st play through and on 2nd I had muted the game and guesstimated when I should tab back in- Except the part where as said, I was losing it and decided to time it.

It's a shame because the expansion in general is pretty solid NGL.

Edited September 9 by Kunavi.2407

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I think the story has a decent framework, and the rest of the expac supports it quite well. Perhaps even carries it. The one thing that keeps making the story fall apart in this game is all the railroading. It barely feels like a RPG anymore. Nothing you do or choose makes any impact on the story at all. Where is the interaction? Where is the RP? I feel more like a spectator who's only purpose is to fight and can't make any decisions.

Yea, of course all the talking feels like a slog when it's always NPCs and canned responses, not real interaction and involvement. I need something to make me invested, Anet. I need to feel like I'm a part of the story, not just watching it.

I actually thought we were seeing a return to the personal story when we got to choose our path during that one chapter (you know which one), but nope! No matter yea or nay, nothing you say or do matters at all. The outcome is already decided. Dialogue hardly changes at all. I know this isn't BG3, but can we borrow just ONE writer from Larien for the next expac? 😄 

[Kurrilino.2706]

On 8/21/2024 at 10:03 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

Conflict with other players is the definition of pvp while lengthy unskippable dialogue dumps are not necessary for pve.

But waiting 10 minutes to get into a PvP match and then wait another 2 minutes for people to make up their mind which class to use is fine i guess?

[Hashberry.4510]

There this scene in the tv WoT where the Ogier starts in on a (book fan fav) info dump, and the main character just cuts it all short and moves the plot along. That could work here.

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 8/31/2024 at 7:33 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

People like hearing characters like Zojja or Caithe talk for 5+ minutes.

Speak for yourself. I'd rather they got left behind just like the dragons. OK, in SotO Zojja does at least have some meaningful (if not entirely plausible) involvement in the story. But I fail to see why Caithe has any reason to be involved in JW, and she in fact isn't. She shows up, delivers a couple of her signature tedious monologues about Zzz... and then vanishes from the story altogether. Why is she even involved, does her VA have some kind of contractual lock or something?

We left behind the Elder Dragons, so can we please finally leave Destiny's Edge behind with them? Please? I'd maybe miss Rytlock, but that's a small price to pay to be rid of Caithe forever.

[Balairin.8479]

I also wanted to log off during the beginning 'slog' of this dlc.  Love the new mount, but the 2 new areas are a bit underwhelming. I was very disappointed by the last dlc, and I am bored with this one....

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 8/23/2024 at 2:33 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

The story is really small this time, even smaller than soto, finished it in two days and had numerous breaks due to boringness because gatekeeping story behind rifts and hearts is meta now.
As someone said it here, this really is two living story episodes sold as an xpac.

Small in scale and spectacle but not in content amount. It'll be similiar to SOTO but the framing of the titans should be a bit more. I didn't play GW1 so I have no emotional tie to the charr worshiping them other than the woe from Malice. So to me they're just big ugly annoying elementals. They did say the wanted to do more grounded stories but I'm slightly...bored with the low stakes...atm

Edited yesterday at 12:46 PM by HotDelirium.7984

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:21 AM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Speak for yourself. I'd rather they got left behind just like the dragons. OK, in SotO Zojja does at least have some meaningful (if not entirely plausible) involvement in the story. But I fail to see why Caithe has any reason to be involved in JW, and she in fact isn't. She shows up, delivers a couple of her signature tedious monologues about Zzz... and then vanishes from the story altogether. Why is she even involved, does her VA have some kind of contractual lock or something?

We left behind the Elder Dragons, so can we please finally leave Destiny's Edge behind with them? Please? I'd maybe miss Rytlock, but that's a small price to pay to be rid of Caithe forever.

It's in the dialogue lol Caithe came because she figured the nature magic the kodan used could help speed up the healing process of the Pale Tree.