You need to increase map capacity if the meta event DPS checks will stay this tight.

[Triptaminas.4789]

10 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Ignorance is bliss. The only issue here is ignorant players demanding rewards and design around their ignorance.

If content becomes any easier, the few people who carry the game and make gears spin just gtfo elsewhere and the people who want afk rewards will quit too as nobody be there to carry them. 

Anet need to prep some serious power creep to boost autochain damage and passive defence, maybe make dodge automatic.... or u know turn this into some kind of mobile game, autocombat? Kinda in par with current balancing anyway might just cut the chase and do it

[HanYanrou.8629]

7 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

Or redesign the attribute/skill system with a better, more intuitive one. I'm almost certain that reason some players can't hit higher than 5k is because of the bloated, unintuitive attribute math one has to figure out in order to construct a high DPS build without having to go to third-party websites, or spend hours trying to memorize how the attribute system works. Plus, for the average player, build experimentation is prohibitively expensive or a chore.

you are actually wrong. it does not cost that much to make a viable build for lets say power/condi virtuoso or pboon/pchrono dps since the main role playing statistics are mostly condition damage, strike, critical chance and condi duration depending on whether you are condi or power.

***recently while having a break time at work i opened gw2skills website and assembled quickly condi virtu build with exotic equipment in full RAMPAGERS(except for three trinkets which were backpack and two earings ascended-also both rampagers)

***got to 100% critical chance(refering to a condi virtuouso build from snowcrows) everything in traits and foods-sigils-runes-toxic fusing oils is standart as on the guide except for the equipment exotic rampagers and rampagers ascended three trinkets in order to safely cap 100% CR chance-might on.

***may check deeper when back home unless someone wiling to test this out on golem for more precise crit rate cap when might boon is on. i am sure the build is capable clearing both meta, convergence cms for dps aswell as easier strike cms and raids hassle free for pugs while giving relatively decent numbers.

===on top of that you can always ask tipcat, aphrodite lady or someone else that plays-mains mesmer classes in order to help you with the build deeper checking statistics for exotic gears as long you'd kindly ask them and explain that you do not have budget to make full legendary or constantly stat swap ascended gears on the fly.

notes:i mention these specific class elitr specs since they always consist or two critical stats-crit chance and condi duration as a key to the damage which must be capped. you can do with less but they tend to give the closer chance to an actual benchmark results for optional builds aswell

 

==== also nobody asks you beat the benchmark while dpsing without cleave targets on the boss. except for doing viable  damage in full condi dps or power dps builds that would tell you actually contribute into a kill. or having a well built exotic gear healer boon class(minstrel or givers).

p.s. typing on a smartphone 🤣

Edited August 26 by HanYanrou.8629

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 hour ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 I have recently tried a 25k DPS low intensity build in the open world. Those are not low effort in open world content, since they heavy rely on a structured groups for survivability. Those builds are extremely glassy and have to be "carried" by a good defensive support, or they will not be able to do 25k and instead spent most of their time on the ground. If all open world players would play such builds, world bosses would not be easier in the slightest. And while these builds are low intensity to play, I wouldn't consider them low effort, since you still have to do a bunch of research out of the game to learn about them. That's essentially having to do homework. And why would someone, who has no clue how high their DPS is care about doing such homework to improve it? The game itself does not tell you, in case you have forgotten, that arc DPS is an addon, that many people don't even know about. I felt like I could handle myself quite well in the open world, sure I couldn't solo a lot of group events, but that's because they are group events, right? Colour me surprised, when I first went into the aerodrome out of shear curiosity and saw that I did less then 2k DPS. I have since improved quite a bit, but I still struggle to stay above 10k, it's a process. Casual players are blissfully unaware that they are being hard carried. That's why 25k DPS is not considered casual.

How is a 25k dps build glassy when real Glas builds do 40k+ dps? 

And on the boss, you will have all boons anyway. If you do what you are supposed to do. Stack. 

Even full berserker gear builds won't struggle to survive in this situation. 

Also, dedicated Openworld builds use self Boon and survival traits/sigils/runes etc and still do 20-25k dps. Because again, thats considered low. A downgrade from a proper build. 

Last time I checked, Axe Zerker does like 27k dps just going 111 F1 111 F1 111.

How much easier do you want it? 

 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

9 hours ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

Maybe we need to gatekeep open world from the try hards

And how would that work? 😂 Gatekeeping is by definition having a minimum standard to meet, if you're talking about separating people that can't from people that can I'm all for it, go put that in a suggestion box please.

Edited August 26 by Dean Calaway.9718

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Remember that the Eparch Meta boss needs something like 8.6k dps per person to be beaten in time. In a world where doing 25k dps is considered bad and easily reachable by low effort builds. 

The fact that both bosses are nothing more than mild dps checks and it still fails. 

We can yap about casuals this casuals that. 

Doing 25k dps should be considered casual. 

Not 5k dps. 

A dps build will do more than the 8k you mention just by autoattacking. And this doesn't mean an optimized build, just something with reasonably chosen traits (this trait says +10% damage while wielding a sword and I am using a sword...maybe I should choose it!) and gear.

[Gop.8713]

All this talk of builds is absurd. It's open world content, it should be accessible to everyone. But that doesn't mean there can't still be a range of difficulties presented. Tbh I'm one of those players that's doing story/cheeves first, I just finished the kitten salmon thing yesterday so I'm just now moving into the second map and haven't been on when the new meta was active yet. But these are all the same complaints we heard about the Eparch meta from soo. You could just find/replace "Eparch" in this thread and it would be indistinguishable from those threads. And the answer here is going to be the same. Only anet knows the success/failure rate of the new meta, and only anet knows the expected success/failure rate they consider desirable. If the actual rate falls outside that window, I'm betting we'll see some changes. But I'm betting we aren't going to see those changes based on data from the first weekend ; p

Give ppls a chance to learn the content, and I'm betting things are going to turn out just fine, just like Eparch . . .

[Dean Calaway.9718]

8 hours ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

If raiders are willing to carry an open world event, there is a much higher chance, that a portion of the open world players will grow out of their 2k DPS and learn to play at raid level.

Except they don't even know the discrepancy of their performance because Anet refuses to implement an actual useful meter, ArcDPS is just all kinds of scuffed most people refuse to use and between you and me I'm sick and tired of the thing acting up with every update. GW2 throws gold medals at everyone and this is how we get people in the forums the other day claiming they were probably the best at so and so class while simultaneously stating a benchmark on YouTube was fake because they couldn't come close to it.

8 hours ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

Big open world meta events and world bosses like JS are exactly the boot camp you're calling for. Both new maps are just one gigantic training ground.

No it isn't, it's not uncommon to have 2~3 players do 70~80% of the damage in events like that and anyone not bothering with ArcDPS (can't blame them, I have a love/HATE relation with the thing) have no clue. You know how many Soulbeasts I see around not merged with their pets in fights using useless pets at that because they're cute?

7 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

Or redesign the attribute/skill system with a better, more intuitive one.

How much more simple do you want it...

7 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

Plus, for the average player, build experimentation is prohibitively expensive or a chore.

Ascended gear was introduced in phases between 2012-2013, I'd argue any of the more recent stat sets are used in builds likely beyond their grasp, but anyway, imagine if every couple of years GW2 introduced a new tier of gear for players to get 😂

7 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

You better make sure that every time you play you are not just playing THE top meta build, but you better be playing it perfectly!

I strive to be at the 50% at least, aiming for the top 10 and I carry great shame when ever I end up bottom 50%.

[Gop.8713]

9 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

You know how many Soulbeasts I see around not merged with their pets in fights using useless pets at that because they're cute?

But here's the thing: It's the open world, those players have to be accounted for. You know how many tryhards are out there sweating for max dps while taking out an event vet? Those players have to be accounted for. You know how many players are going to afk on second screen while the group gets the content done for them? Those players have to be accounted for. We're going to see all of those players at every event in the open world, so the events have to be designed with that in mind. And again, I'm sure they are, and I'm sure this one is going to turn out just fine, just like all the previous ones . . .

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Or "the strangers" finally get that wake-up call and get told their 5k DPS isn't good enough, back to the drawing board, back to training.

You haven't really learned anything by Wildstar example, have you? When casuals get a "wake-up call" like that, they do wake up. And then they leave the game. And then the game that depends on high population numbers to thrive just dies. And only then the hardcores that were so strict about their demands get their wake-up call.

[Maienstern.2154]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

And how would that work? 😂 Gatekeeping is by definition having a minimum standard to meet, if you're talking about separating people that can't from people that can I'm all for it, go put that in a suggestion box please.

You know, that's exactly why I decided to add that tone indicator. But alas I think it was in vain...

But you know, I think it would be a great idea to add a DPS cap for open world. Anything, that goes beyond 5k just doesn't count anymore. That would make event balance much easier for the devs. (I am being sarcastic again, btw)

[Maienstern.2154]

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Then those players should also not expect every bit of content  and loot to be made available to them. 

But we don't. Or at least the majority of us don't. Or do you hear me demand raids be made accessible for open world players that do 5k DPS and that wings of ascension should drop from shadow behemoth? In the same vein raid players should also not expect every bit of content to be made for their play style. What I see in this thread is a bunch of raiders coming into an open world discussion, demanding we develop an understanding of and skill level at their play style, yet they don't seem to be willing to do the same for us. How many of them know the name of the kodan mother, who is grieving for her child? How many paid enough attention to Stoic Alder to know why he gifted us his homestead, if they even bothered to unlock that? How many talked to Dougal Keane? 

I don't care about big numbers or boon uptime. I sat down and started to work on my play style, because I was sick and tired of laying in the dirt and events failing. If that gets me to raid level, I might give them a try, but if I stay below that, I am happy to stick to open world content. And I think it's fair for open world players to want open world content to be accessible for us.

 

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Honest question now though: do you really think the majority of players would enjoy being shown that their are essentially useless ballast?

Of course not. That's why I didn't suggest that as a solution. I tried to draw attention to that issue, because I was hoping to find some understanding on the raiders side. But I don't think it's working.

[Cyninja.2954]

30 minutes ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

But we don't. Or at least the majority of us don't. Or do you hear me demand raids be made accessible for open world players that do 5k DPS and that wings of ascension should drop from shadow behemoth?

All the time. Are you serious?

Raids have been constantly critiqued for being "gate kept", being to hard, needing to get reworked, needing more difficulty options (easier ones) at similar loot. The central issue here is a part of this game player base demanding all content be made around their ineptitude.

These new events are a direct reaction to demands from players about gate keeping and the resulting loss of being able to dictate who gets to participate leads to the issues.

If these fights were instanced, they'd be barely above any of the easy IBS strikes at best.

30 minutes ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

In the same vein raid players should also not expect every bit of content to be made for their play style. What I see in this thread is a bunch of raiders coming into an open world discussion, demanding we develop an understanding of and skill level at their play style, yet they don't seem to be willing to do the same for us.

No, what you are seeing is players which play multiple types of content not agreeing that the current design is an issue.

FYI: the current open world design is no where NEAR any instanced content, least of all recent instanced content. You might do well actually trying out some of the recent strikes or raids (hey, go as far back as IBS if you wanty or wing 6+7), before you even assume that open world content is similar.

To make it real simple: some open world content (a minuscule part of it) needs a fraction of organization and proper builds (proper in this case meaning not total trash) for success.

30 minutes ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

How many of them know the name of the kodan mother, who is grieving for her child? How many paid enough attention to Stoic Alder to know why he gifted us his homestead, if they even bothered to unlock that? How many talked to Dougal Keane? 

Are you seriously asking the question of who, in general, will be more involved or knowledgeable of the games lore, a hardcore player or a more casual player?

You really do not want the answer to that question, trust me.

30 minutes ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

I don't care about big numbers or boon uptime. I sat down and started to work on my play style, because I was sick and tired of laying in the dirt and events failing. If that gets me to raid level, I might give them a try, but if I stay below that, I am happy to stick to open world content. And I think it's fair for open world players to want open world content to be accessible for us.

That gets you to "not trash tier level". Raid level comes once you are actually able to play (and even most raids have been power crept to be easy by now).

I'll repeat what said in another one of these threads:

ACCESSIBILITY is not the same SUCCESS!

The open world is completely accessible, but rewards and success might not be. Any player who complains about accessibility is actually complaining about rewards. There is absolutely no accessibility issue here.

Edited August 26 by Cyninja.2954

[HanYanrou.8629]

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

All the time. Are you serious?

Raids have been constantly critiqued for being "gate kept", being to hard, needing to get reworked, needing more difficulty options (easier ones) at similar loot. The central issue here is a part of this game player base demanding all content be made around their ineptitude.

These new events are a direct reaction to demands from players about gate keeping and the resulting loss of being able to dictate who gets to participate leads to the issues.

If these fights were instanced, they'd be barely above any of the easy IBS strikes at best.

No, what you are seeing is players which play multiple types of content not agreeing that the current design is an issue.

FYI: the current open world design is no where NEAR any instanced content, least of all recent instanced content. You might do well actually trying out some of the recent strikes or raids (hey, go as far back as IBS if you wanty or wing 6+7), before you even assume that open world content is similar.

To make it real simple: some open world content (a minuscule part of it) needs a fraction of organization and proper builds (proper in this case meaning not total trash) for success.

Are you seriously asking the question of who, in general, will be more involved or knowledgeable of the games lore, a hardcore player or a more casual player?

You really do not want the answer to that question, trust me.

That gets you to "not trash tier level". Raid level comes once you are actually able to play (and even most raids have been power crept to be easy by now).

I'll repeat what said in another one of these threads:

ACCESSIBILITY is not the same SUCCESS!

The open world is completely accessible, but rewards and success might not be. Any player who complains about accessibility is actually complaining about rewards. There is absolutely no accessibility issue here.

well look at me. i meowed and mixed up or miastyped that might gives cr chance while its fury boon doing so. although i know what you mean. it's just like convergence cms and people aiming to get conver champion title doing all of them in under 20mins of a complete instance clear. Meanwhile this means people put relatively decent ammount of work and effort on the whole fight to get the safe pass even if that comes that some sacrifices large ammounts of dps to go below 20k's or to as low as 15-16K in order to keep zojja alive, place portals to heal it etc. -it was exactly the same with VL doing multi high scale private convergence cm squads to get their own tittle full of lcm/voidwalkers.

it;s easy to carry one or two slackers in 50 men squads on such meta events, how ever having couple people to carry a group of 20 or 30 players(those that uses 'tag' builds made for sandswept isles in order to clear cm convergences or meta as this dealing 6-8k dps on a cleave). if not more is unbearable. it's the same going for "healers" that refuses to set up proper tankier builds for such encounters to have a easier time themselves and giving that for the group incase things go not according to plan.

===and yes ive seen void lounge vc squad for eu grinding conv cms. haf more than 200people with voidwalker title in amogst multiple large scale groups

Edited August 26 by HanYanrou.8629

[Cuks.8241]

The boss seemes pretty easy. Last time we just randomly killed it without tags even, players coming in after it already started. Maybe it was just luck and there were lots of good players because everything was super smooth, players communicated (!) and we timed it perfectly. 

[Maienstern.2154]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

All the time. Are you serious?

Yes, I am serious. The MAJORITY of us understand that not every bit of content is for us. Barely any of us even interact with GW2 related platforms beyond the game itself. It's a small minority whose whining about it. Do not paint us all with the same brush!

I also never said, that the events are too difficult at the moment. Frankly, I have not had enough time to try the JS event more than once, I can't make a judgement call on that. All I said, is that I think it's understandable for casual open world explorers (should have been more specific than calling us players), to want to be able to finish events, without having to do homework. And I tried to explain why. But I feel like I am not listened to and that my arguments are being straw manned. 

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Are you seriously asking the question of who, in general, will be more involved or knowledgeable of the games lore, a hardcore player or a more casual player?

No, I am not asking who's more involved with the lore. I am asking who spends more time listening to more or less random NPCs.

 

If players have to do homework to play successfully, it is an accessibility issue. And it's an issue with the game design! Please note, that I am NOT saying that issue lies with the boss difficulty. I can't pin point where exactly the issue lies, but I think it needs discussing. And telling us to just do homework, is not helping anyone! ArenaNet had the intention to design Janthir in a way that will get players to improve their play style and feel ready for raids. (I am not saying, that there won't be an increase in difficulty from open world to raids.) They have said so in interviews. If we want them to succeed in this endeavor we need to offer constructive feedback and not this tribalistic bs. 

[zeyeti.8347]

6 hours ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 I have recently tried a 25k DPS low intensity build in the open world. Those are not low effort in open world content, since they heavy rely on a structured groups for survivability. Those builds are extremely glassy and have to be "carried" by a good defensive support, or they will not be able to do 25k and instead spent most of their time on the ground. If all open world players would play such builds, world bosses would not be easier in the slightest. And while these builds are low intensity to play, I wouldn't consider them low effort, since you still have to do a bunch of research out of the game to learn about them. That's essentially having to do homework. And why would someone, who has no clue how high their DPS is care about doing such homework to improve it? The game itself does not tell you, in case you have forgotten, that arc DPS is an addon, that many people don't even know about. I felt like I could handle myself quite well in the open world, sure I couldn't solo a lot of group events, but that's because they are group events, right? Colour me surprised, when I first went into the aerodrome out of shear curiosity and saw that I did less then 2k DPS. I have since improved quite a bit, but I still struggle to stay above 10k, it's a process. Casual players are blissfully unaware that they are being hard carried. That's why 25k DPS is not considered casual.

In a meta you will bunch up with some people , the chance of having all essentials boons covered is high , we are not talking about random events where you can do 2-3k damage and get the work done ,we are talking about a meta were the timing seems short a lot of time.

Some classes do 25k and are  pretty darn tanky , you just need to know boss attack path and have good reaction to mechanics (it's not like green = stay in and red = stay out , has been up for some time now...), for example i have a 22k hp full berserker reaper with a relic who give ppl around me 3might and fury (cause reaper solo lacks fury) whenever i cc , plus my shroud of 18k hp and i am definetly able to 25k and more alone without any boon giver around me , with spear good life steal , i only lack range , the last two metas i did with him , i didn't fall once on the ground. Herald is another example of solo big dps trough self boon 25 might fury and quickness 100% of the time , untamed seems pretty good too now with his huge lifesteal , not tryed yet , but both have good survivability.

But sure if you play an ele full zerk without jadebot +hp and with weaver - air - fire traitline, you pretty much a hollow pinata asking to be crushed and plundered like a free lootbox.                                                                                       

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

If these fights were instanced, they'd be barely above any of the easy IBS strikes at best.

Can't agree more with that statement. The meta has freaking easy mechanics and the game just do them partially for you , like you get automatically on your warclaw when the cc turn around need to be done and when i see people getting of their warclaw ad try hitting the boss with the huge 0 number that must be printed in capital on their UI , i can't help myself to crush my head on my keyboard , i don't like to moke autism  , but that's calling out for mockery.

The rest of the fight is green aoe , red aoe , green arrow , red arrow , if you have no clue of how that works now you are either completely new to the game , either color blind or a complete moron.

The hard part of the fight is like Eparch and Soo Won meta : is your squad composed of 90% of mediocre players ? then you are screwed ! Most open world bosses are pinata with really easy avoidable attacks.

Edited August 26 by zeyeti.8347

[Cuks.8241]

These events (Soo Won, Eparch) don't even fail because of low dps (well that is the consequence but not the main reason). They fail because people stand in red circles and avoid green circles and don't look and listen to surroundings. Getting downed or worse killed is by far the biggest dps loss. Trippel trouble is probably still the hardest ow boss just because awareness and communication is mandatory. And even in the most organised runs you get a few players that just don't do what's needed even if the commanders go to great length to organise and explain everything (maybe sometimes language is a barrier though).

You don't need to do homework to do this. You just need a little focus and sometimes communicate with fellow players.  You can clear a lot of content including raids and such in this game just by having players that can read and sometimes even respond when asked (gasp! I know). 

Another thing and this goes for all content. How much are you running around? If you find yourself constantly running around the place, you're probably doing something very wrong. Most encounters require very little movement. Oh a red circle under my feet, bad, move 200 units to the left. No need to stop attacking. Not run away like headless chicken into another group of mobs and another bad circle getting downed 900 units from everyone being a big pain in a for getting help which usually snowballs in a bad way. One of the main rules of group encounters and very common mistake players make in any game; when in trouble run towards the healer, not away from him.

Nowadays in meta events everyone has pretty much full boon coverage. 

[HanYanrou.8629]

59 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

In a meta you will bunch up with some people , the chance of having all essentials boons covered is high , we are not talking about random events where you can do 2-3k damage and get the work done ,we are talking about a meta were the timing seems short a lot of time.

Some classes do 25k and are  pretty darn tanky , you just need to know boss attack path and have good reaction to mechanics (it's not like green = stay in and red = stay out , has been up for some time now...), for example i have a 22k hp full berserker reaper with a relic who give ppl around me 3might and fury (cause reaper solo lacks fury) whenever i cc , plus my shroud of 18k hp and i am definetly able to 25k and more alone without any boon giver around me , with spear good life steal , i only lack range , the last two metas i did with him , i didn't fall once on the ground. Herald is another example of solo big dps trough self boon 25 might fury and quickness 100% of the time , untamed seems pretty good too now with his huge lifesteal , not tryed yet , but both have good survivability.

But sure if you play an ele full zerk without jadebot +hp and with weaver - air - fire traitline, you pretty much a hollow pinata asking to be crushed and plundered like a free lootbox.                                                                                       

Can't agree more with that statement. The meta has freaking easy mechanics and the game just do them partially for you , like you get automatically on your warclaw when the cc turn around need to be done and when i see people getting of their warclaw ad try hitting the boss with the huge 0 number that must be printed in capital on their UI , i can't help myself to crush my head on my keyboard , i don't like to moke autism  , but that's calling out for mockery.

The rest of the fight is green aoe , red aoe , green arrow , red arrow , if you have no clue of how that works now you are either completely new to the game , either color blind or a complete moron.

The hard part of the fight is like Eparch and Soo Won meta : is your squad composed of 90% of mediocre players ? then you are screwed ! Most open world bosses are pinata with really easy avoidable attacks.

people doing these events or private convergence cms to get their title want honesty from players of the state their builds are rather than pick someone "hi dps me pro" ends up the dude can not do the work in terms of numbers and duties for boon dps.

[HanYanrou.8629]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

In a meta you will bunch up with some people , the chance of having all essentials boons covered is high , we are not talking about random events where you can do 2-3k damage and get the work done ,we are talking about a meta were the timing seems short a lot of time.

Some classes do 25k and are  pretty darn tanky , you just need to know boss attack path and have good reaction to mechanics (it's not like green = stay in and red = stay out , has been up for some time now...), for example i have a 22k hp full berserker reaper with a relic who give ppl around me 3might and fury (cause reaper solo lacks fury) whenever i cc , plus my shroud of 18k hp and i am definetly able to 25k and more alone without any boon giver around me , with spear good life steal , i only lack range , the last two metas i did with him , i didn't fall once on the ground. Herald is another example of solo big dps trough self boon 25 might fury and quickness 100% of the time , untamed seems pretty good too now with his huge lifesteal , not tryed yet , but both have good survivability.

But sure if you play an ele full zerk without jadebot +hp and with weaver - air - fire traitline, you pretty much a hollow pinata asking to be crushed and plundered like a free lootbox.                                                                                       

Can't agree more with that statement. The meta has freaking easy mechanics and the game just do them partially for you , like you get automatically on your warclaw when the cc turn around need to be done and when i see people getting of their warclaw ad try hitting the boss with the huge 0 number that must be printed in capital on their UI , i can't help myself to crush my head on my keyboard , i don't like to moke autism  , but that's calling out for mockery.

The rest of the fight is green aoe , red aoe , green arrow , red arrow , if you have no clue of how that works now you are either completely new to the game , either color blind or a complete moron.

The hard part of the fight is like Eparch and Soo Won meta : is your squad composed of 90% of mediocre players ? then you are screwed ! Most open world bosses are pinata with really easy avoidable attacks.

to actually be honest, i've had over the past ~4days since meta release and after the bug fix that made it fail 3 or 4 meta failures. i needed 8tries that were failure to clear it on my ninth attempt for ONCE. maybe i was unlucky, but honestly. that was huge misfortune bumping up into players with attitudes that under 10k DPS is enough, happened i crashed into angry kittyon chat few times seeing meta failed. tried offer some builds while beeing angered but they did everything to refuse. as if toxic elitists builds arent needed for us(refusing any kind of help). what was more funny in 40+ men squad on one of the bosses ive seen two people bumping 34-45k DPS while few others did about 20k. and the rest 30+ were on healer level or below 6-8k as willbenders, reapers and such. Fairly said, i couldnt handle frustration knowing i wasted time multiple metas having failed.

Edited August 26 by HanYanrou.8629

[Antycypator.9874]

It's not about DPS or map capacity. It's all about people dying 10 times in a boss fight because they don't use their dodge key.

[HanYanrou.8629]

1 minute ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

It's not about DPS or map capacity. It's all about people dying 10 times in a boss fight because they don't use their dodge key.

you do realise that you can dodge and if healers lets say scourge makes mistake with his f4-transfusion he will pull the player back into puddle? especially if he was about to die due to not beeing healed aswel. it's not just avoiding dodge, its entirely comes alot of how healers acts so as dps during the encounter. the dodge and side step is mandatory but you have to realise that trial and error is where they learn, so all of us. and if healer isnt competent to burst heals to outheal late face tank that could end up in a complete failure. you have to adjust for the group in order to let it pass.

[Maienstern.2154]

@zeyeti.8347 I tested that LI build (daredevil, I know not the tankies, but it was the lowest apm I could find) in the crown pavilion, so I had a good mix of group events and being on my own. Group events were fine, on my own I was toast. In the open world you are going to be on your own a lot. Low Intensity builds are ment to do as much damage with as little apm and as few different buttons as possible. They sacrifice everything for that! Survivability, boons and even a chunk of damage. I am not talking about solo open world builds. A lot of the boons in open world blobs come from random builds, just spewing out random boons. Most people don't run intentional support builds. If everyone switched to LI builds, the boon uptime would go down probably quite significantly, reducing the survivability of everyone. Which means that failing a mechanic will be much more devastating. So yes, I stand by my statement: Low Intensity builds are way too glassy to consider them low effort in the open world, and therefore 25k are not casual.

 

But just having a good build will only get you sofar anyway. I copied a snow crows build for my main (condi DPS mech), that got me from 2k to about 7k DPS. The rest is learning when to press which button and building up speed in doing so. I am now at around 10k +/- and slowly improving. But that takes time and effort. And a lot of people might not be able to spare that time and effort. You also have to stay focused on what you are doing, especially when you're still learning. So again, no, that's not casual.  

[Maienstern.2154]

3 minutes ago, HanYanrou.8629 said:

you have to realise that trial and error is where they learn

Exactly, that's why big open world events are the training ground. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I only really have 3 issues with the bosses so far: 

1. Difficult to learn the mechanics with so many other players running around screwing it up anyway.
2. Can't even see the red and green circles with 50 other players bunched on me.
3. FPS

😅

Other than those, not so bad once you figure things out. Proper health scaling for the number of active players would solve the first issue. LOD would solve the last two.

[Ashantara.8731]

I have not seen the meta fail even once since release, so the capacity of players seems to be adequate.