CELE IS GETTING NERFED

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Guess my roaming days as an ele are over.  Was already having enough trouble with Thieves and Harbingers, but now that all my condi damage and boons are going to get cut 42% I don't see much of a point.  I could try and go back to Marshalls, but I suspect willbenders will just kill me then.  

Play fresh air like all skilled eles?

OT: wrong nerf, should have shaved all stats instead of removing 2.

[CafPow.1542]

12 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Those condi builds don't provide any offense.  Condi ele doesn't have many conditions to stack, so all of the damage will just be cleansed away effortlessly.  I tried Marauder after the damage nerfs, and I found very quickly that it lacks the power to kill any of the tankier builds, so in effect it only works against other marauder players who aren't paying attention.  Mixing those three stats together will result in an impotent build that can't do anything at all.

Even after the nerfs, celestial is still the best option for roaming ele.  Except now that it has lost all of its boon duration and condi duration, it is now far easier to kill, escape from, chase down, out-grind, etc.  Meanwhile, Celestial Harbingers will just switch to trailblazer, because they can output every condition all at the same time.  

 

That sounds quite silly. If you don’t have any damage whatsoever, why do you need to stat it up?

no condi? Why do we use balthazar runes then? Maybe you have to swap some traits.

also you get boon duration on minstrel and be beefy if you want, or you swap some runes. I don’t know how good or bad it will be but it won’t be as apocalyptic as you say it will. But sure, reroll harb if you want. Nobody forces you into anything.

[Shadow.2097]

Now there will be a trade off for celestial users in order to invest in boon duration, same as power and condi builds have to. This is fair.  This change wont change the meta massively, but at the very least im hopeful it may improve build diversity in the smaller scales of WvW because it has been boring to fight the same 4-5 specs all running the same gear for 3 years + at this point. 

[felincyriac.5981]

funnily enough cele harb should still be okay given how bloated death magic is (600 tough, 300 power&condi, perma prot). Or a spear build that does most of its dmg as lifesteal anyway. Just slap a boon duration rune on and you are good to go. 

[CafPow.1542]

2 minutes ago, Shadow.2097 said:

Now there will be a trade off for celestial users in order to invest in boon duration, same as power and condi builds have to. This is fair.  This change wont change the meta massively, but at the very least im hopeful it may improve build diversity in the smaller scales of WvW because it has been boring to fight the same 4-5 specs all running the same gear for 3 years + at this point. 

If you want to improve build diversity in roaming, adress power builds and willys first but i‘m derailing.

 

i always defended cele and still do, but accepted that it might be overtuned. While i think they should have removed conc and healing power (not exp) or maybe half conc/exp instead of completely removing, i always agreed that some tuning could be legit. And that happened now.

i don’t think for a minute tho that „anet gave in to the whiners“ or something. And i think cele wasn’t the „big offender“ in wvw. I am still looking gorward as a cele user myself and will adapt. My goal will be to pwn as many cele crybabies after the nerf.

but i might to improve for sure. 😄

[Shadow.2097]

6 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

If you want to improve build diversity in roaming, adress power builds and willys first but i‘m derailing.

This change will absolutely lead to an increase in Willbenders. We can only hope that subsequent balance patches pick up on this. Celestial nerf is only a very small step in the right direction. Boon application has changed a lot since Cele was buffed, and baseline boon durations are higher and application of boons is a lot more frequent, so after this nerf i think Cele will still be stronger than it was pre-buff. Also it's a lot easier to invest in boon duration now through runes and such. And classes like harb will still have perma prot, quickness and fury which will still be very oppressive (death magic really needs looking at). Expertise wasn't a big deal everyone's got too much cleanse for it to offer great value, but the boon duration celestial offered baseline was too high imo. Willbender specifically, has it's base boon durations too high especially on F3 and will need to be addressed. 

[Vyseman.2947]

sadly nerfed the wrong way.

Who cares about Condi Duration and Boon Duration that gets removed???  I mean, i play one Char with full Dragons and Rune of the Pack and it gives me whooping +15% boon duration.  Or my Fun Reaper mit Grieving  + Rune of the Firebrand and have 100% Quickness uptime. 

 

 

In my opinion they should remove Vitality and Toughness

[CafPow.1542]

53 minutes ago, Shadow.2097 said:

This change will absolutely lead to an increase in Willbenders

Oh yes, because i think (just my opinion) that cele was the only broad viable counter against the power meta. Except you cohnter it with power. Than it’s a „who combos faster“. (Tho it’s oversimplified now.)

[urd.8306]

I'm not against the change, but with the change they seriously need to fix the Ascended Armor and Weapons from the Vault. Cele is the the best choice in those chest for WvW and PvE (or was before the nerf).
You can't get Viper, you can't get Trailblazer, you can't get Marauder.

Next step should be a nerf to Power damage in general.

 

[Caille.7214]

Remove Armor, Runes, Sigils and Relics.

Especially Rotating relic of Pay to Win (Relic of Cerus).

Just swimwear, baby-oil and throw rocks at each other.

As the gods intended.

[urd.8306]

The gods didn't invent swim wear. And that is why nudity exists to this day.

Edited September 14 by urd.8306

[Caille.7214]

3 minutes ago, urd.8306 said:

The gods didn't invent swim wear. And that is why nudity exists to this day.

blasphemy!

tell that to Frank god of way-too-tight-synthetic-leopard-print budgies!

[shrew.3059]

5 hours ago, T G.7496 said:

Well, they just removed one of the few things keeping this forum alive.

There are still Minstrel’s and Thieves to complain about! Never underestimate the online community’s ability to complain about some impending apocalypse.

[SleepyBat.9034]

5 hours ago, Shadow.2097 said:

Now there will be a trade off for celestial users in order to invest in boon duration, same as power and condi builds have to. This is fair.  This change wont change the meta massively, but at the very least im hopeful it may improve build diversity in the smaller scales of WvW because it has been boring to fight the same 4-5 specs all running the same gear for 3 years + at this point. 

Not as much as you think. It'll be those same specs with slightly different stats.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

7 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Plaguedoc / Traiblazer / Minstrel.

maybe even go full Marauder / Trailblazer / Minstrel with equal distribution or something.

i too am a cele-ele enjoyer i admit it but i am not sure if this is the end of the world.

 

/edit sometimes i good in pvp a bit and it works too and there is no cele. It’s doable.

It's not the end of the world. It just means versatile builds need extra care and planning that specialized builds don't have to put up with. Gankers and bunkers can still just "slap on" marauders, trailblazers, or minstrels and be done with it, while generalist build players need to put in extra work now. They could have just nerfed cele stats by 15-20% so they could still just slap on one set of gear like every everyone else, or they could rework the system so specialist builds need to customize too. I'd be down for either.

This would also solve the problem of PVE/WVW gear split being too different for people who geared for cele gear. The whole idea behind keeping your PVE gear in WVW is so you can jump into WVW without retooling your toon. Hey Anet, how about a free equipment tab for each character in WVW to compensate? 😆

[Gaiawolf.8261]

5 hours ago, Vyseman.2947 said:

In my opinion they should remove Vitality and Toughness

Nah, just remove power and condition damage instead. Fights are way too short. 😉

Edited September 14 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Kulvar.1239]

1 minute ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Nah, just remove power and condition damage instead. Fights are way too short. 😉

Nerf to power and condition damage so fights are not one-shot meme builds.
Nerf boons, cleanses and healing so fights are not endless stalemates.

Only gear allowed is power / precision / condition damage / vitality. Yes it doesn't exist, yet.

[Hotride.2187]

16 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

You do the same post when people still cry about a certain statcombo even after the nerf? 😄

nahh i guess not.

Nah I only cared about cele getting removed. I have no issues with other stats.

[willow.8209]

As i said elsewhere, I don't (and I think Anet shouldn't) take seriously any complaints that some elite spec/mechanic/trait/gear/etc  that someone doesn't play themselves is too good or whatever.

Think about it: If it were that awesome, they'd be playing it themselves. But they don't, they play something else. So obviously to them, the "something else" is better than whatever the current complaint is. 

Edited September 14 by willow.8209

[Hotride.2187]

17 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You are about to find out that many of the people wrecking you are not using cele.  

But, it was a quick win for them to get a lot of the forums to shush.  

Ah, I forgot to add that one to my list. It was mentioned often enough.

Have to wonder what will happen to the "Sorry I have no skill I play [CELE]" guild now.

[Zyreva.1078]

28 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

As i said elsewhere, I don't (and I think Anet shouldn't) take seriously any complaints that some elite spec/mechanic/trait/gear/etc  that someone doesn't play themselves is too good or whatever.

Think about it: If it were that awesome, they'd be playing it themselves. But they don't, they play something else. So obviously to them, the "something else" is better than whatever the current complaint is. 

Your assumption that nobody who thinks cele is op in it's current state, is playing it themself, is not true.

But if cele was balanced in it's current state, then the nerfs would be irrelevant, because players could just swap to different gear and be equally as strong as they are now with cele. Don't forget that there are like 48 different attribute combinations to choose from, and you can mix and match them freely in WvW to get your desired stats.

Edited September 14 by Zyreva.1078

[willow.8209]

1 minute ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Your assumption that nobody who thinks cele is op in it's current state, is playing it themself, is not true.

that's not actually what I said tho. Thanks for the reply tho.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

that's not actually what I said tho. Thanks for the reply tho.

You are implying it, otherwise your post doesn't really make any sense.

[jhnsmth.2641]

They should nerf the stats directly (expertise and concentration) not the celestial

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

16 hours ago, roamzero.9486 said:

Next in line is mass complaining about anything with toughness/healing power/condi duration. It's the SPVP situation all over again where they removed a bunch of amulets to appease the whiners.

I’m impartial to this change, but this here in the quote block is really the dangerous part about all this. I’ve talked about topics like this for years (read through all 60 pages of my comments for proof) since 2019.

It started with 1 amulet it then snowballed to all healing amulets in Spvp are gone. Before you know it everyone is playing the stick (stick wars 2)

Stick wars 2 was the colloquial funny term I came up with back then, to describe the game at the singularity point of these philosophies: that if one systemically nerfs or removes everything from the game, one is also approaching a game where all skills do the same exact thing, 0 damage, or everything is gone. The point of the joke was to show that the balance philosophy (nerf everything philosophy) was fundamentally flawed because it doesn’t lead to a logical end conclusion. 

Anyway, let Spvp serve as an example for what game people want to play when such philosophies are in place. 

 

Edited September 14 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684