In-game gambling and time-consuming farming forced me to stop playing this game

[VaaCrow.3076]

this is your lack of self control not the game to blame, got 7k hours on gw2 and don't have this issue.

[Zedek.8932]

So you have learned an important lesson I guess. A bit too late, but you did.It's more that you are personally prone for such things rather than aNet being at fault.This can be projected everywhere: Gumball machines with little items in them (e.g. FROZEN figurines) can make girls addicted, because they want a certain character. So let's ban gumball machines? The entire lootbox thing is often nothing more than unresponsible people falling for it, which is the problem of said human, not the fault of the system.

Excelsior.

[PyrateSilly.4710]

@"Raizel.8175" said:Cosmetic stuff is a major part of the gameplay though, the game's called Fashion Wars 2 after all. BLCs are bullskritt, but they're kinda ok'ish since Anet has to make money somehow. If they keep them and refrain from adding other glorified-gambling-bullskritt, that would be ok. Hope they learned their lesson from "Mountgate".Had to laugh about this thread though. Just look at glorified-gambling-bullskritt in other MMORPGs...

Maybe the cosmetic skins are a major part for you and others but that does not mean it's a major part for all the players. I have been playing since the beta and have yet to call it "fashion wars". To me it is a game called Guild Wars 2. I play to have fun and take my mind off of whatever is happening in RL for a short while. I do quests, hearts, explore, WvW, just generally have fun. I don't care what others are wearing and actually wore the same armour for about 4 years before I changed it just it because. If I do decided to get/find and use keys I understand it's a gamble, been that way since they were put into the game nothing has changed with them at all except for the contains you MIGHT be able to get. In no way shape or form do I think I may get something 'expensive' or 'rare' or even get upset if I don't. It's all part of the game.

[Urud.4925]

Just a curiosity Krum: is GW2 the only MMO that gave you this addiction? Or more than other MMO you played?The lack of sleep and some general addiction that keeps stealing your time from other things to do (going out for a beer, cleaning better your house, cooking something more elaborate, etc) is something that I always experienced with MMOs, sadly :/However I never bought loot boxes in any MMO. I do buy mounts, skins and other assured items. But I don't buy anything that has a chance to give me what I like.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

@"Umut.5471" said:You don't need those expensive cosmetic stuff, even ascended armor as a stat item.Unlike other MMORPGs, essential items are pretty easy to farm.

This explains the argument a lot better than I ever could.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

This video explains the recent loot box thing better than Jim Sterling does, in my opinion.

[OneYenShort.3189]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"OneYenShort.3189" said:Welcome to the world of MMOs and games in general. And no I'm not joking at all. How do you think they keep players playing?

Well, I spent a lot of time in my youth playing board games. There were no loot boxes, no random rewards you have to buy with casino chips. Thesegames, simple compared to an MMO, kept us engaged for many hours. There are ways to keep players playing outside the world of gambling.

How many of those games had dice? Cards? Spin wheels? Any time you add in "random" into it, you have essentially added in Luck, other wise known as the precursor to gambling. While most gambling has the form of "I will risk this, then take the chance to see if I win.", you do in fact "risk wining or losing" due to "luck," which at its core is the bases of gambling.

You get addicted to that euphoria of winning so you keep playing. So no, you've been gambling for a long while, just the "loss" from losing didn't have a monetary measurement.

[Umut.5471]

@Raizel.8175 said:

@"Umut.5471" said:You don't need those expensive cosmetic stuff, even ascended armor as a stat item.Unlike other MMORPGs, essential items are pretty easy to farm.

Cosmetic stuff is a major part of the gameplay though, the game's called Fashion Wars 2 after all. BLCs are bullskritt, but they're kinda ok'ish since Anet has to make money somehow. If they keep them and refrain from adding other glorified-gambling-bullskritt, that would be ok. Hope they learned their lesson from "Mountgate".

Had to laugh about this thread though. Just look at glorified-gambling-bullskritt in other MMORPGs...

I understand this since my aim is to have a character with legendary weapon/armor/trinkets.But they have to be hard/grindy somehow to keep them somehow prestigious.If I had an opportunity to have all legendaries easily in a week or so, I would be bored playing aimlessly.It's a cosmetic character progression for me, and every legendary adds some effect or

[Jasmine.8195]

As my grandmother always used to say, the key is to take all things in moderation.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I can understand your difficulties. But it is a bit of a pity that you came to the conclusion to uninstall the game because I think GW2 still is a nice game overall.

But it could be good to take some months off for this game. Maybe it can help you to, at a later moment, care less about certain items and maybe return some day later in a state where the RNG loot lost its appeal. I don't know if this will happen but it would be nice if you can keep your account and characters for the case it will.

Good luck!

[pah.4931]

Try fasting. In my opinion, its the best way to learn self control and discipline.

[pah.4931]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@OneYenShort.3189 said:Welcome to the world of MMOs and games in general. And no I'm not joking at all. How do you think they keep players playing?

Well, I spent a lot of time in my youth playing board games. There were no loot boxes, no random rewards you have to buy with casino chips. Thesegames, simple compared to an MMO, kept us engaged for many hours. There are ways to keep players playing outside the world of gambling.

This is very short-sighted. Those games are a single purchase board game with so much less development time involved it's INSANE (I have invented and licensed board games that are on the market... you can trust me, we don't need 100s of developers to design a game lol).

The gambling has absolutely nothing to do with keeping you having fun and engaged. They are to make money so that the game isn't shutdown. Investors need a reason why they are putting their money behind GW2 instead of some lame-ass mobile game that will make twice as much money with a fourth of the cost...

I'm sorry if people can't control themselves... but if you like GW2 you should be thanking ArenaNet for trying to make more profits and you should be thanking all those people buying the lootboxes and gem store items galore... they are letting you play this game for longer.

[Klipso.8653]

There's no issue in supporting the game by using the gem store. Get more bag slots, get more bank tabs, maybe even more character slots. That's all fine, You know exactly what you're getting.
But spending money without knowing what you're getting is ridiculous. It's your fault only, not the game. I've never used the gem store unless I knew exactly what I was buying. It's too easy to just ignore the Black Lion Chests until you get a key in game.

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

To me, this is a player issue, pure and simple. To specifically target addictive personalities into gambling is predatory and wrong, but there's no evidence of Anet ever doing that. As long as that doesn't happen, companies shouldn't have to throttle their cash flow just because of an unfortunate minority with addiction issues. There have always been and always will be addicted people, but just like the rest of us, those people are still responsible for themselves in the end. If companies start to shelter them from the temptations of the cruel world, where will that end? Should we demand casinos and liquor stores closed because some people have addictive personalities? I think not.

Gambling and loot boxes in modern-day video games are a very popular thing, and in order to be lucrative, they have to be designed to be somewhat addictive. Sadly, people with gambling problems can get overwhelmed by that, but again, it's not the company's responsibility. It's the player's responsibility to steer clear of microtransaction/lootbox-including games if they don't trust themselves with money.

That being said, I'm very sympathetic to everyone with gambling issues, and sorry if you've gotten into trouble because of it. Hope ya'll get better!

[TheGrimm.5624]

Quite often the answer is in finding balance. Does this game have loot boxes, yes. Do you need them no. Its up to each person to determine if they want to risk them and what it took to get them. If you weren't enjoying the content you were playing to acquire in-game currency then no you need to stop and re-examine what you are doing. The game should entertain, allow you to connect to others and should help you relax. If you find its not, its time to stop and revisit what/why you are doing. All games could be considered just time syncs if you aren't getting something back from them. What makes games more than that though is what you get from them. To me games are the virtual ages version of the local tavern. Its where you go to visit and do things with others that may be far away at the time if you can't be with them in person. Its a place to share experiences and enjoy others. Its a place to have fun.

I would say BLCK would be more of an issue if you couldn't just use in game resources to open them. They are a game inside of the game. Quite often games will not have outlets to spend extra gold on, with the gold to gems conversion GW2 has one though even if we get out of balance with in game materials at times driving that conversion up overtime. Be that as it may, you can still decide to spend $0 on gem store items. I acquire BLCK all three ways, but I only use money if I like and want to support what ANet is doing. For the other players I know are spending money on keys at times its the same, if we are happy with the game we continue to fund it via gem stores, if not but we still like something, then convert more gold to gems. But again, balance, its up to the player to decide if that's worth its entertainment and its fiscally responsible. The game can't decide that for you. If you think you spent too much, then you did. If you are happy with your purchase or were doing it to also support the game then you were fine. I admit spent more than that in one shot, but was happier doing that then buying three console games that I was finished with in 30 hours since I also knew that funding would be adding more to the game down the road. You have to question for yourself, no one else can answer that question for you, was the time worth it because that is the resource none of us have an unlimited amount of.

Good gaming!

[Yamazuki.6073]

If people want to oversimplify "gambling" down to three very basic things; luck, random, risk, then it means you're always gambling. Each day that you live there are risks involved, and how your days go is purely random and based on chance/luck. The word gambling may as well have no meaning in today's world. Kind of like how the labels troll, or white-knight devolved into words to use when someone simply disagrees with you, gambling is now a word you just throw around when ever there's something random you don't like.

Something to consider, loot boxes, dlcs, etc are a consequence due to consumers not wanting to pay more for their entertainment. Games always had an extremely high value per hour of entertainment (even socially) compared to going out to the movies, a bar, etc. Consumers didn't want to pay more for their games, even though they were fine paying more for their other luxuries. Executives ended up finding ways to get more out of consumers while keeping the upfront cost of games the same. As a result we have dlcs, micro-transactions, loot boxes, pay to win, etc. It seems consumers were expecting for games, and cosmetics, to for ever remain 60$ and free for an eternity while still expecting games to evolve and for quality to increase. Just look at how people complain about a skin costing 15-20$. They demand all this be included in the ~30$ expansion.

Many seem to like throwing around the idea corporations are greedy, but how are consumers any different? Corporations want the most cash they can get for the service they offer, while consumers want the highest quality service for as little as possible. The end result is both groups trying to hold onto money.

[Wizler.8192]

If I ran out of goals to pursue then I'd probably stop playing. But I also know my limits. Legendaries are not for me because I don't want to invest so much time. Even ascended can push the boundaries of what I'm willing to invest. I pursue them when I really want/need them but then I step back and rebalance. Sometimes I realize that I'm spending more time in-game than is healthy for me so I scale back. But I'm also glad there are massive goals for people who do play more than me because it gives THEM something to do.

1. know your limits
2. prioritize what you want
3. decide what you're willing to pay
4. recognize when addiction kicks in
5. step back, rebalance, take a break
6. come back when you're ready with a fresh perspective
7. nobody is forcing me to play too much except myself
8. the game is not to blame--addiction comes in many forms; how do I personally handle temptation?

[FOX.3582]

Stop blaming your weakness on others...

[Silmar Alech.4305]

I always saw the gambling mechanics within the gem shop as money grab, so I never ever bought even one single of these rng items (bl keys, dye package, etc.). It's a pity that the game relies on such unpleasant mechanics for its income. I cannot recommend the game to minors, because of this, and if I had a child, I would forbid it and consider it an adult-only game. It must not be that a game promotes gambling for minors.

Equally unpleasant is the mechanics that makes you not only waste your money but waste your time: the daily tasks. One day, I realized that I wasted half an hour farming daily tasks: home instance, daily achievement, daily crafting, and so on. I realized that I postpone invitations from friends to go to some dungeon or events to first complete my dailies. I postponed fun for routine. Or the other way round: I went with some friends but weren't able to log off late in the evening before I completed my dailies.I stopped immediately doing the dailies as soon as I realized this and let it go. It must not be that the game takes control over me.

It's a pity that the game is designed to take control over you: over your money, over your time. In fact, I should leave the game to not support this design as a matter of principle, but there is enough stuff to do even if you ignore the money and time grabs, so I'm still around. The quality of the game and the fun factor is greatly diminished because of such mechanics, but even with these annoyances GW2 is a good game, good enough to still play it.

[kta.6502]

I know you won't like me saying this, but you need to visit a gambling addiction therapist in real life. Addictions of any kind usually mean you are using outside stuff to cover-up emotional issues. If loot boxes didn't exist, the possibility of being addicted to casinos, Lotto, Powerball, scratch tickets, and other gambling games would still be extremely high. If games never existed, the possibility of being addicted to anything else is also very high. Going to a therapist will help you get to the bottom of your emotional problem. Google "Gamblers Anonymous".

I myself have food addiction. McDonald's, KFC, Old Country Buffet, and other restaurants aren't to blame for my fatness. The same with Safeway, 7-11, food banks, and welfare (Food Stamps). Who bought the food? Me. Who ate the food? Me. I'm the only person to blame for my obesity. So I went to therapy, dealt with old traumas, learned important coping skills, and manage my addiction. The core of my problem: I was unhappy with my career direction, and I was eating excessively in an attempt to bury those unhappy feelings.

I have family with alcohol and drug addiction. The same thing applies. No one else forced them to drink excessively or take addictive medications. One family member was using their drug addiction because they were afraid of what people would say about investing money in their motorbike hobby. Once this person got over their fear of others' opinions, they started making their own bikes and riding them at the local biker meetup.

Tl;dr -- Go to therapy and get help for your addiction. You can find Gamblers Anonymous at gamblersanonymous.org/ga/node/1

[Dreams.3128]

Player issue, get help if you are an actual addict, stop blaming companies for your human-made decisions. Moving on.

So sad people will not own up their mistake and will try to strawman every bit of everything to put blame on companies nowadays.

2017: Year of entitlement and generation of: "I deserve this or I want this gone" babies.

[Kapax.3801]

if those 200 dollars had gone to the savings bank to improve the balance of classes within the game would have been good, or to improve the PvP or WvW ... but no, God knows where those 200 dollars went, but it is clear that within the game will not...

[Faaris.8013]

@pah.4931 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@OneYenShort.3189 said:Welcome to the world of MMOs and games in general. And no I'm not joking at all. How do you think they keep players playing?

Well, I spent a lot of time in my youth playing board games. There were no loot boxes, no random rewards you have to buy with casino chips. Thesegames, simple compared to an MMO, kept us engaged for many hours. There are ways to keep players playing outside the world of gambling.

This is very short-sighted. Those games are a single purchase board game with so much less development time involved it's INSANE (I have invented and licensed board games that are on the market... you can trust me, we don't need 100s of developers to design a game lol).

The gambling has absolutely nothing to do with keeping you having fun and engaged. They are to make money so that the game isn't shutdown. Investors need a reason why they are putting their money behind GW2 instead of some lame-kitten mobile game that will make twice as much money with a fourth of the cost...

I'm sorry if people can't control themselves... but if you like GW2 you should be thanking ArenaNet for trying to make more profits and you should be thanking all those people buying the lootboxes and gem store items galore... they are letting you play this game for longer.

So we agree. I said that they don't need to add gambling to keep players playing, that there are other things that engage players. You added that they do this to make money. Of course they do it for the money, and not to keep players playing. We would still play the game if they removed Black Lion Chests.

[Faaris.8013]

@"Yamazuki.6073" said:If people want to oversimplify "gambling" down to three very basic things; luck, random, risk, then it means you're always gambling. Each day that you live there are risks involved, and how your days go is purely random and based on chance/luck. The word gambling may as well have no meaning in today's world.

Wait, so...gambling addicition doesn't exist because everything in life is gambling? That is so deep dude, I wanna have what you had, but in a lower dosis.

[mauried.5608]

The problem with this thread, and its common in many other threads as well is the concept of"Anet is FORCING me to do something." in order to play the game.Really means I want something in the game and I dont want to do whats needed to get it.Theres nothing in a MMO thats essential to play the game.