Nothing feels meaningful

[Plautze.6290]

IMHO nothing speaks against a hiatus from GW2. After all, you want to get fun out of playing video games.You gotta do what gives you the most satisfaction in exchange for your time.scratches headWait, why did I play Dark Souls again? Anyway!Hard to see another player leave, but I wish you luck and have fun ;)

[ProtoGunner.4953]

@Murdock.6547 said:Raids, fractals, pvp, dungeons.Speedclears, safe clears, experimenting with tactics.

Nothing feels rewarding. Sure I got something neat from this or that... But whats the point? Why am I gearing ascended when masterwork is functional?Why am I running these fractals when the only reward is the same few fractals only now with more agony?

Why make a legendary when I can literally craft an exotic of each statset for half the price and 10% less stats?

Nothing is rewarding. Not even my day 1 desmina clear. Not even my dhuum cm.

Maybe this isnt the game for me?

There was a time, you played a game be cause of the story, and for the sake of finishing it, to overcome the challenge. Reward was not the primary incentive. Ever played Megaman? Castlevania? Zelda? Metroid?

If your definition of 'meaningful' is just the rewards, go play a luck based game like Pachinko.

[Xillllix.3485]

The game felt meaningful when it was released, I think the raids really was the wrong direction to take... And instead they should have kept populating the maps with new bigger dungeons while adding GvG for the competitive community and guild missions.

Also because of the power creep everything is just too easy in the open world, so nothing in the core tyria is satisfying.

WvW needs attention, but everything they do is reward based instead of being gameplay based.

New elite specs like Weaver don't feel new besides the headache it gives you...

Personally I think if they could increase the difficulty all around (besides raids) it would help the game.

[Lyros.4673]

Agreed, because it's correct. Guild Wars 2 does very little, almost nothing, to promote a meaningful world.

It's a themepark MMO. You're not here to use your brain. You're not here to get invested with the lore. You're here to grind resources to get your new shiney toy from the arcade reward area from tickets you got from those arcade machines. A single GW1 wiki article has more lore than the entirety of Guild Wars 2 as a game, combined. Every aspect of the story and world design is literally just addressing what I call the "federal kitten issue of the moment." But that's it.

Thanks for killing those monsters that were bothering me! Thanks for doing it for me too! And me! And me!

Raids are also pretty bad in the sense that they landlock builds in Guild Wars to nothing more than a number. Instead of fun and gamefeel, classes are now designed against a theoretical number that's only achieved under optimal conditions with 0 care to how they actually feel and play. Even if they DID do that, the devs would be worriedly scratching the back of their heads because instead of making abilities useful and fun, they have to be wary of an "upper ceiling" of damage to build around.

Fractals are just snippets of the proper game design Guild Wars 2 could have been. Dungeons have been ignored for the sake of more readily and easily designed, highly repeatable grinds that are fractals. Their existence is a joke in of itself. The Backpack is called Ad Infinum, because you're literally just grinding the same fractals over and over again in order to progress and get more loot. In-world, you're literally not doing anything of value. Instead, you just pretend you were relevant by acting out actual historical events that happened all the way back in Guild Wars 1 or times before that.

But that's what people want. It's just a loot spree like cocaine for the few shinies that we can get in game. Meanwhile, the gemstore is throwing out a new weapon-skin set every few weeks. At this point, there are MORE black lion chest skins than there are actual in game skins you can get. Especially if you ignore the fact that a lot of weapon skins are just basic craftable weapons that are slight tint changes when you craft. Which highlights another problem with the game.

There are few, meaningful appearance things you can acquire in game. What few great looking ones exist, there are literally hundreds of nearly comparable ones you can get with money, or BL Chest drops (admittedly they're vastly improved over their previous incarnation, but that's beside the point.) Then mount skins; how is every skin in the mount adoption license lottery/gambling system not a perfect example of cut content from the game? Half of those skins are literally named out of geological areas in Elona.

But you know, you can just cynically buy those flavorful skins for gems when Path of Fires has already been criticized for having any meaningful content or rewards in the long run besides stats. Nothing you do in Path of Fires contributes to earning something new in the world (as much as I LOVE the world design there, this is the reality). And mounts offered something new, but instead were immediately turned into a cash shop item besides a token appearance.

All that being said, the reason I play Guild Wars 2 is because sometimes, the game mechanics are fun when you're able to find a non-meta build that's useful while progressing towards my legendary(ies). But that's increasingly fewer and farer between because as the game continues to be balanced around RAIDS and META DPS/SUPPORT, it linearizes effective builds into a single way instead of offering a variety of ways to play that are simultaneously effective and maybe even competitive.

So yeah, tl;dr, Raids ruin making classes fun/effective for anything besides raids for PVE (not to mention the relative lack of a PVE and PVP split that needs to happen sooner than later), and the cash shop is egregious because it's literally pulling earnable content out of the game because stats are relatively easy to earn in game, meaning that the only thing left to "achieve" is appearances. Most of which are cash-shop gated instead of actually contributing to the game. But at least the theme-park rides are fun, and the decorations to the park are real nice.

The only people who I know that can play this game and get legendaries are those that have way too much free time that I'd honestly best spend elsewhere.

GW2 is still a fun game for what it is, at the end of the day. It's best played with friends where you can ignore meta and build effectively within your own group and stick your finger at anyone that cries "meta." Do what you want, how you want. However, nothing in this game rewards anything other than mindlessly zerging with raw numbers. Even Guilds are hurt if you're only playing with small groups due to the pre-HoT changes that killed any change of a small guild of even getting a guild hall. In short, the game doesn't reward small, actual group interaction besides people just rolling meta-builds for fractals, so there's 0 comraderie unless you're actively looking for it. It just depends on who you're playing with, because let me tell you, I would not be playing GW2 if I were playing alone.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Murdock.6547 said:Raids, fractals, pvp, dungeons.Speedclears, safe clears, experimenting with tactics.

Nothing feels rewarding. Sure I got something neat from this or that... But whats the point? Why am I gearing ascended when masterwork is functional?Why am I running these fractals when the only reward is the same few fractals only now with more agony?

Why make a legendary when I can literally craft an exotic of each statset for half the price and 10% less stats?

Nothing is rewarding. Not even my day 1 desmina clear. Not even my dhuum cm.

Maybe this isnt the game for me?

videogames just blow nowadays, same crap over and over, time for us all to pick up books.

[Murdock.6547]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Murdock.6547 said:You can press 1 to win even in raids. Ive had a group that did exactly that.

I'm pretty sure that's far from truth. Someone had to do mechanics. And this must have been special kind of build if you managed to do it by pressing 1. Or it was 1 person pressing 1 and other were carrying him?

That was a gross exaggeration because I assumed noone on the forums knew how raids worked.

[Murdock.6547]

@zealex.9410 said:Then again whats meaningful challene for you to do the same encounter 50 times to gear up? Nah gw2 has meaningful challenge for the first couple of clears. This was how the game was made.

see at least in wow or ff14 they get new content. so yes, you clear the same content for a bit for a few weeks.But guild wars 2 doesn't get new content for literally months at a time. And even then it's tiny tricklings of nothing. A single fractal, a few hours of story (tops), and MAYBE a raid wing.In gw2 you clear the same content for literally years with no incentives to do anything. You don't even get prestige of clearing because after a few weeks its on farm for even pugs.

[mauried.5608]

You cant compare sub based games with free to play games as the economics arnt even close.Games like WOW can churn out new content much faster than GW2 because its a much bigger studio with far more graphic designers thanks to the higher income from the monthly subs.

[zealex.9410]

@Murdock.6547 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Then again whats meaningful challene for you to do the same encounter 50 times to gear up? Nah gw2 has meaningful challenge for the first couple of clears. This was how the game was made.

see at least in wow or ff14 they get new content. so yes, you clear the same content for a bit for a few weeks.But guild wars 2 doesn't get new content for literally months at a time. And even then it's tiny tricklings of nothing. A single fractal, a few hours of story (tops), and MAYBE a raid wing.In gw2 you clear the same content for literally years with no incentives to do anything. You don't even get prestige of clearing because after a few weeks its on farm for even pugs.

New raids in ff14 takes around 3 to 4 months. Raids are on farm in wow and ff14 as well a week or 2 after release... W5 took farlonger for the bulk of the pug to start clearing comfortably.

Yes ff14 and wow get diff quantities of content. They also follow diff business models which further complicates things.

In the end gw2 is a lower engagement Mmo with no gear threadmill and no subscription. It is build for short term bursts of excitement every update. Affter a while u do the content because u might find it fun or u want an item from it not because u are required to farm it to stay up to date.

[Umut.5471]

There's no character progression in Gw2, I think that's the main problem for hardcore people.After you get all the good skins you want, you are done and don't need to do any content.Your character doesn't get better items, doesn't get better stats, it stays the same.I like this because of PvP/WvW aspect, it allows fair fights. But as a negative side, you loseyour point to play because your character can't go further like other mmorpgs.I think they should add vertical progression beyond ascended gear for PvE only.So we can feel that our character gets more powerful as we spend days playing.

[zealex.9410]

@Umut.5471 said:There's no character progression in Gw2, I think that's the main problem for hardcore people.After you get all the good skins you want, you are done and don't need to do any content.Your character doesn't get better items, doesn't get better stats, it stays the same.I like this because of PvP/WvW aspect, it allows fair fights. But as a negative side, you loseyour point to play because your character can't go further like other mmorpgs.I think they should add vertical progression beyond ascended gear for PvE only.So we can feel that our character gets more powerful as we spend days playing.

Best chance for that is with gw3. A fresh start where arenanet can lay the foundation for the game and present it for wjat it will be.

[Murdock.6547]

@mauried.5608 said:You cant compare sub based games with free to play games as the economics arnt even close.Games like WOW can churn out new content much faster than GW2 because its a much bigger studio with far more graphic designers thanks to the higher income from the monthly subs.

That really just says to me that the f2p model is harmful for mmosGw2s original model was cool, but unsustainable. They had the gem store to fund their existance but couldnt march onwards because without money they couldnt make new content.Without new content they cant sustain the players they already have. And they cant bring in new players to buy the game so they has no money.

They went ftp and theyve become somewhat predatory. Mountskin lootboxes, blc being pushed harder than I can remember. And content is still at a drop feed every few months with no real dev interaction in between (until recently, that is.)

The game is starving for both money and players and cannot attract much of either with the systems they have. Theyre in a vicious cycle that will likely become this game's death spiral.

They need to change or theyll stagnate. If they stay their current course, we can only expect more predatory practices to crop up until the game only exists to give the microtrans context.

Tl;dr: things are likely to change over the rest of this games lifespan. And likely not for the better.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@mauried.5608 said:You cant compare sub based games with free to play games as the economics arnt even close.Games like WOW can churn out new content much faster than GW2 because its a much bigger studio with far more graphic designers thanks to the higher income from the monthly subs.

actually FF14 and WoW are unique on MMO market as being alive besides having subs, these are unchallenged champions, nobody can compare to them now, and never will be able to

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Murdock.6547 said:

@mauried.5608 said:You cant compare sub based games with free to play games as the economics arnt even close.Games like WOW can churn out new content much faster than GW2 because its a much bigger studio with far more graphic designers thanks to the higher income from the monthly subs.

That really just says to me that the f2p model is harmful for mmosGw2s original model was cool, but unsustainable. They had the gem store to fund their existance but couldnt march onwards because without money they couldnt make new content.Without new content they cant sustain the players they already have. And they cant bring in new players to buy the game so they has no money.

They went ftp and theyve become somewhat predatory. Mountskin lootboxes, blc being pushed harder than I can remember. And content is still at a drop feed every few months with no real dev interaction in between (until recently, that is.)

The game is starving for both money and players and cannot attract much of either with the systems they have. Theyre in a vicious cycle that will likely become this game's death spiral.

They need to change or theyll stagnate. If they stay their current course, we can only expect more predatory practices to crop up until the game only exists to give the microtrans context.

Tl;dr: things are likely to change over the rest of this games lifespan. And likely not for the better.

GW2 never changed its business model. It started as B2P (also called premium) and it's still B2P. F2P is glorified, meaningless demo.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Murdock.6547 said:

@mauried.5608 said:You cant compare sub based games with free to play games as the economics arnt even close.Games like WOW can churn out new content much faster than GW2 because its a much bigger studio with far more graphic designers thanks to the higher income from the monthly subs.

That really just says to me that the f2p model is harmful for mmosGw2s original model was cool, but unsustainable. They had the gem store to fund their existance but couldnt march onwards because without money they couldnt make new content.Without new content they cant sustain the players they already have. And they cant bring in new players to buy the game so they has no money.

They went ftp and theyve become somewhat predatory. Mountskin lootboxes, blc being pushed harder than I can remember. And content is still at a drop feed every few months with no real dev interaction in between (until recently, that is.)

The game is starving for both money and players and cannot attract much of either with the systems they have. Theyre in a vicious cycle that will likely become this game's death spiral.

They need to change or theyll stagnate. If they stay their current course, we can only expect more predatory practices to crop up until the game only exists to give the microtrans context.

Tl;dr: things are likely to change over the rest of this games lifespan. And likely not for the better.

GW2 never changed its business model. It started as B2P (also called premium) and it's still B2P. F2P is glorified, meaningless demo.

[jbrother.1340]

@Murdock.6547 said:Raids, fractals, pvp, dungeons.Speedclears, safe clears, experimenting with tactics.

Nothing feels rewarding. Sure I got something neat from this or that... But whats the point? Why am I gearing ascended when masterwork is functional?Why am I running these fractals when the only reward is the same few fractals only now with more agony?

Why make a legendary when I can literally craft an exotic of each statset for half the price and 10% less stats?

Nothing is rewarding. Not even my day 1 desmina clear. Not even my dhuum cm.

Maybe this isnt the game for me?

Maybe look for meaningful things outside of the game and just come here to fool around?

You could join a club or devote time to volunteer work? I know what you mean in this thread but games no matter how meaningful might not be what you are really looking for...

[lezbefriends.7516]

@Murdock.6547 said:Raids, fractals, pvp, dungeons.Speedclears, safe clears, experimenting with tactics.

Nothing feels rewarding. Sure I got something neat from this or that... But whats the point? Why am I gearing ascended when masterwork is functional?Why am I running these fractals when the only reward is the same few fractals only now with more agony?

Why make a legendary when I can literally craft an exotic of each statset for half the price and 10% less stats?

Nothing is rewarding. Not even my day 1 desmina clear. Not even my dhuum cm.

Maybe this isnt the game for me?

Get a job, then you can play the game for fun.

[bob.5680]

I really don't understand people that come on to forums for games that they don't enjoy playing simply to point out how they don't like playing the game. Should we care whether or not they enjoy the game? Why post here rather than finding a game (or anything else) that they do enjoy doing??

[Northstrider.2456]

That's the issue with the game's philosophy. It has decided to stagnate on its game progression so once you reached a state full of ascended gear, you are pretty much done with the game if you prefer gathering more and more new gear over time. Everything else is just casual etertainment and fashion..

[Malafaia.8903]

Ok, another "maybe it's not the game for me?" topic...It's just for the sake of complain, isn't it? What answers did you expect from other people?And that "I win raids just by pressing 1" thing is getting really boring (since we all, even you, know it isn't true).

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@"Malafaia.8903" said:Ok, another "maybe it's not the game for me?" topic...It's just for the sake of complain, isn't it? What answers did you expect from other people?And that "I win raids just by pressing 1" thing is getting really boring (since we all, even you, know it isn't true).

Since raid selling is not only allowed but also possible, the content itself has no prestige from the start

[Malafaia.8903]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Malafaia.8903" said:Ok, another "maybe it's not the game for me?" topic...It's just for the sake of complain, isn't it? What answers did you expect from other people?And that "I win raids just by pressing 1" thing is getting really boring (since we all, even you, know it isn't true).

Since raid selling is not only allowed but also possible, the content itself has no prestige from the start

I'm clearly not talking about prestige.

[Leo G.4501]

@bob.5680 said:I really don't understand people that come on to forums for games that they don't enjoy playing simply to point out how they don't like playing the game. Should we care whether or not they enjoy the game? Why post here rather than finding a game (or anything else) that they do enjoy doing??

It's likely the same reason posters will read and respond to a thread they don't agree with.

Not saying I'm above said reasoning, but at least I'm aware of what draws people to confrontation.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Murdock.6547 said:Raids, fractals, pvp, dungeons.Speedclears, safe clears, experimenting with tactics.

Nothing feels rewarding. Sure I got something neat from this or that... But whats the point? Why am I gearing ascended when masterwork is functional?Why am I running these fractals when the only reward is the same few fractals only now with more agony?

Why make a legendary when I can literally craft an exotic of each statset for half the price and 10% less stats?

Nothing is rewarding. Not even my day 1 desmina clear. Not even my dhuum cm.

Maybe this isnt the game for me?

You have a point, and this is probably why both PvP and WvW were the primary end game for Gw2 when it first came out and the next little while thereafter. I don't PvP at all, but at the bare minimum, at least WvW has/had ongoing engaging content long past all the PvE stuff was complete. Some will disagree, and more would disagree with the statement pertaining to today's state of PvP and WvW, but agree more during the first 3 years. 2-3 years after Gw2's inception, PvP and WvW fell off the radar as their primary end-game content focusing more on PvE. Problem being, there is only so much you can do with PvE as the content gets recycled every which way.

[mauried.5608]

This type of complaint is common to most MMO forums.One of the most common types of complaint on the WOW forums when I played it wasI dont like < insert something here in the game you dont like. > and if you dont fix it Im going to leave.They never do and they also keep complaining and threatening to leave.No MMO will ever please everyone, and its also not reasonable to assume that a game that you may have liked at the start will always contain stuff you like.For most people, all MMOs have an end where its time to move on.Bottom line is all you are doing is moving pixels around on a screen.