Please Overhaul Raids.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Would be nice if we had other options for raids, like auto join or different difficulty levels. It's too hard to connect with people and organize a group. In lieu of that I feel like they should just make raids much more casual, in order to lower player scrutiny so we can actually do them. I love hard content but organizing the group and jumping through the hoops is too much work and it's tedious. Please consider making raids more palatable for everyone.

"I love hard content, but I don't really want to put any effort so please make it casual instead. Thx".

I'm willing to put in maximum effort when it comes to player skill and game mechanics. But maximum effort to psychologically impress strangers into working together, and dealing with all of their problems or shortcomings, that's just a ton of unfun work.So if you are unwilling to put in the effort to get people to work together why do you want to raid? Raiding is group content with all that is involved in forming a group. There is also if you are unwilling or unable to join or make a static pug raiding.

Yah I'm trying to find a way to make the grouping process less tedious, painful, and scrutinizing. I don't care if they lower the raid difficulty or not, I'm simply looking for ways to reduce the problems and chunkiness and tedium that is organizing a group. Yes I'd be OK if they nerfed raids into the ground if it made grouping easier.

don't pug, get a guildproblem solved

That's not really problem solved as all the scrutinizing I mentioned above takes place still. Trying to mitigate that.

that's not a problem with raids that's a problem with the ppl you raid with.you can change raids all you want ppl will stay jerks.

Probably true but the effort to find new people is equally tedious, so tedious that I've refused to do content that i excel at, simply because getting in with a good group requires too much time and effort.

I've talked to other players who echo the same sentiments and wish there was a no hassle way to raid with minimal talking or effort put in to find good players. Also finding good players or getting into a raid group isn't even playing the game. If your doing that you're just standing around, it's boring and feels like work.

Since you talked to other players then keep talking to other players and when you found 9 others that think the same as you form a raid squad.Im waiting here eagerly how you did.I mean with 10 people that cant work together only know how to keep them selfs alive as a single player.

No I don't want to talk to 10 other players when most mmos have raid experiences that don't require me too, why should I be expected to on here? Simply because they don't have the feature? I'm asking them to add these features.

Talking to players is an optional experience in this game that has no real relation to actual gameplay. Think about it, if I talk to 10 players does that somehow increase my skill level or ability to perform? No it only affects whether I am included in certain things or not, a problem which many other mmos have addressed in various manners.

That "talking to others increases my skill lvl or ability to perform?" includes making it known to the group that you might lack experience or asking for tips or asking if they know x and y thing so you can be more focushed on your own play.

So yes, talking to others influences your ability to perform.

Really so I play better if I talk to others? Like my personal skill level increases and I press the buttons faster and move more precisely the more I talk with other players?

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:Nitpicking my comment doesnt make my point any less valid, and it doesn't make you right.

My point is that your ultimate goal isn't aligned with your rhetoric. If you hope to get ANet to change the status quo, then start by being clear about what you really want. You've hidden the idea of "make it easier to group" by commenting on things that aren't directly related. Making grouping easier doesn't require overhauling raids and overhauling raids won't necessarily make grouping easier.

The reason for commenting on each part of your original post was to demonstrate the lack of alignment between your own stated goal and the statements used to support it. I apologize that it came across as nitpicking.

This isn't about being right or points being valid or not; this is about the words used to convince others to a point of view.

tl;dr the original post is about changing everything about raids

except

how groups are formed, while later the OP says that's what they want changed. The closest the original post comes to discussing the topic is the use of the phrase, "like auto group," without any description of how that might work in GW2.

It seems to me that the original post is basically just asking for LFR. Anyone who has played WoW in recent years is familiar with the concept. They have multiple difficulty modes including the entry level zerg-able version of raids which you can autojoin and faceroll your way through more or less like we do open world bosses here.

I don't personally care to see development time utilized on this for two reasons:

1) GW2's non-trinity system produces crappy raid encounters, in my opinion. They're boring on the current mode and they'd be even worse with an LFR mode!

2) When I tried WoW after LFR was introduced, it was awful because it basically forced players to slog through 2 easy modes before getting to what used to be normal mode and then on to the hard mode. Who wants to snooze their way through two joke versions of a raid before getting to play the real version?

Of course, that's just my opinion. I know plenty of other players love raiding and many more would appreciate the opportunity to at least see these encounters in an LFR mode. But since this is just one player's opinion, I'd rather see resources used on something else as this would not improve the game for me at all and could potentially make it worse.

[zealex.9410]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Would be nice if we had other options for raids, like auto join or different difficulty levels. It's too hard to connect with people and organize a group. In lieu of that I feel like they should just make raids much more casual, in order to lower player scrutiny so we can actually do them. I love hard content but organizing the group and jumping through the hoops is too much work and it's tedious. Please consider making raids more palatable for everyone.

"I love hard content, but I don't really want to put any effort so please make it casual instead. Thx".

I'm willing to put in maximum effort when it comes to player skill and game mechanics. But maximum effort to psychologically impress strangers into working together, and dealing with all of their problems or shortcomings, that's just a ton of unfun work.So if you are unwilling to put in the effort to get people to work together why do you want to raid? Raiding is group content with all that is involved in forming a group. There is also if you are unwilling or unable to join or make a static pug raiding.

Yah I'm trying to find a way to make the grouping process less tedious, painful, and scrutinizing. I don't care if they lower the raid difficulty or not, I'm simply looking for ways to reduce the problems and chunkiness and tedium that is organizing a group. Yes I'd be OK if they nerfed raids into the ground if it made grouping easier.

don't pug, get a guildproblem solved

That's not really problem solved as all the scrutinizing I mentioned above takes place still. Trying to mitigate that.

that's not a problem with raids that's a problem with the ppl you raid with.you can change raids all you want ppl will stay jerks.

Probably true but the effort to find new people is equally tedious, so tedious that I've refused to do content that i excel at, simply because getting in with a good group requires too much time and effort.

I've talked to other players who echo the same sentiments and wish there was a no hassle way to raid with minimal talking or effort put in to find good players. Also finding good players or getting into a raid group isn't even playing the game. If your doing that you're just standing around, it's boring and feels like work.

Since you talked to other players then keep talking to other players and when you found 9 others that think the same as you form a raid squad.Im waiting here eagerly how you did.I mean with 10 people that cant work together only know how to keep them selfs alive as a single player.

No I don't want to talk to 10 other players when most mmos have raid experiences that don't require me too, why should I be expected to on here? Simply because they don't have the feature? I'm asking them to add these features.

Talking to players is an optional experience in this game that has no real relation to actual gameplay. Think about it, if I talk to 10 players does that somehow increase my skill level or ability to perform? No it only affects whether I am included in certain things or not, a problem which many other mmos have addressed in various manners.

That "talking to others increases my skill lvl or ability to perform?" includes making it known to the group that you might lack experience or asking for tips or asking if they know x and y thing so you can be more focushed on your own play.

So yes, talking to others influences your ability to perform.

Really so I play better if I talk to others? Like my personal skill level increases and I press the buttons faster and move more precisely the more I talk with other players?

Skill lvl and performamce go hand to hand. u might know the rotation of your class, u might be able to do it on the golem with 90% results. Bit if the group cant coordinate and perform well as a group yoi wont either.

Talking to others, making sure u know and they know the fight, u know what to do and they know what to do helps you focus on your job without and anything taking your mind away and you can perform better.

If you also lack experience on some boss and someone gives you a tip on how to do x thing or y your skill lvl directly benefits from that.

[flog.3485]

How about the devs just open 2 new LFg tab: one for raid training groups and the other for guild recruitment.

[zealex.9410]

@flog.3485 said:How about the devs just open 2 new LFg tab: one for raid training groups and the other for guild recruitment.

They should make a guild search feature. Its been 5 years now and this is an mmo.... Its laughable that its not in game yet.

[Tyson.5160]

@Cynn.1659 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:Would be nice if we had other options for raids, like auto join or different difficulty levels. It's too hard to connect with people and organize a group. In lieu of that I feel like they should just make raids much more casual, in order to lower player scrutiny so we can actually do them. I love hard content but organizing the group and jumping through the hoops is too much work and it's tedious. Please consider making raids more palatable for everyone.

"I love hard content, but I don't really want to put any effort so please make it casual instead. Thx".

Also give free legendary armour to everyone for buying the game, since it would be unfair to the rest of the player base.

That’s ok, you can buy the armor with your credit card, no biggie.

[Tyson.5160]

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Would be nice if we had other options for raids, like auto join or different difficulty levels. It's too hard to connect with people and organize a group. In lieu of that I feel like they should just make raids much more casual, in order to lower player scrutiny so we can actually do them. I love hard content but organizing the group and jumping through the hoops is too much work and it's tedious. Please consider making raids more palatable for everyone.

"I love hard content, but I don't really want to put any effort so please make it casual instead. Thx".

I'm willing to put in maximum effort when it comes to player skill and game mechanics. But maximum effort to psychologically impress strangers into working together, and dealing with all of their problems or shortcomings, that's just a ton of unfun work.So if you are unwilling to put in the effort to get people to work together why do you want to raid? Raiding is group content with all that is involved in forming a group. There is also if you are unwilling or unable to join or make a static pug raiding.

Yah I'm trying to find a way to make the grouping process less tedious, painful, and scrutinizing. I don't care if they lower the raid difficulty or not, I'm simply looking for ways to reduce the problems and chunkiness and tedium that is organizing a group. Yes I'd be OK if they nerfed raids into the ground if it made grouping easier.

don't pug, get a guildproblem solved

Only helps if you can raid at the same time as your guild.

[Tyson.5160]

@Draco.9480 said:stop begging for easier raids. what's so hard in organize people with basic brain?????????????????????????????????????? just stop with this, it's just shows how the people in this game just don't want to improve and never will with this attitude. you just want to play whatever build you want and clear the raids without any effort. too hard? go play others games. instead requesting for harder bosses with CM option you just want to nerf so all people can enjoy end game without any effort. what's the point. all the point is to work hard for end game content. if everyone can do that easily without effort then it's not end game and has no point. what's the point farming rewards and gold for then???

Good question. While your at it, what’s the meaning of life?

[TexZero.7910]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Raids should be overhauled to add features so that everyone is accomodated. From people wanting easier difficulty to people who want additional features for grouping. 99% of other mmos that have raids do this. You guys can nitpick my post all you want or white knight it up, but what I'm saying makes sense, as having these features for raid has been an established precedent in most other mmos.

Me simply requesting them is common sense.

You know whats more common sense than your request ?

Raids are meant to be challenging. Changing that goes against the principle design and thus wont happen.

Challenging how, apparently finding a decent group is part of the challenge and excitement of the raid lol? That's like saying I'm going to eat at a restraunt but my favorite part is washing the dishes and having to manage the wait staff and the cooks before I get food.

I can't take this seriously....

Do you honestly think that if i right now logged in formed a squad and picked 9 other random people you'd be ready to raid ?If you do then you have serious missgivings about what makes a raid group successful. People put in time and formed relationships with each other, fostered communication and put in several attempts before their first kills let alone getting to the state their raid groups are in currently.

And here you are asking for a system that's akin to being handed a Masters Degree without attending university. I'm sorry but no.You want to raid, there's plenty of ways to get into it that don't take the dumbest and most destructive route possible that is removing the human components and social requirements.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:Raids should be overhauled to add features so that everyone is accomodated. From people wanting easier difficulty to people who want additional features for grouping. 99% of other mmos that have raids do this. You guys can nitpick my post all you want or white knight it up, but what I'm saying makes sense, as having these features for raid has been an established precedent in most other mmos.

Me simply requesting them is common sense.

While some other MMO's may do as you say, the endgame in those game is raids. That is not true in GW2. I'd rather they didn't move GW2 endgame more towards raids, which is more likely if they put additional development resources into raids. This is not me "white knighting" on this topic. This is me opposed to what you want because I don't want GW2 to become more like those other games. I'm sorry that that puts us in opposing camps, but them's the breaks.

[Tyson.5160]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Raids should be overhauled to add features so that everyone is accomodated. From people wanting easier difficulty to people who want additional features for grouping. 99% of other mmos that have raids do this. You guys can nitpick my post all you want or white knight it up, but what I'm saying makes sense, as having these features for raid has been an established precedent in most other mmos.

Me simply requesting them is common sense.

You know whats more common sense than your request ?

Raids are meant to be challenging. Changing that goes against the principle design and thus wont happen.

Challenging how, apparently finding a decent group is part of the challenge and excitement of the raid lol? That's like saying I'm going to eat at a restraunt but my favorite part is washing the dishes and having to manage the wait staff and the cooks before I get food.

I can't take this seriously....

Do you honestly think that if i right now logged in formed a squad and picked 9 other random people you'd be ready to raid ?If you do then you have serious missgivings about what makes a raid group successful. People put in time and formed relationships with each other, fostered communication and put in several attempts before their first kills let alone getting to the state their raid groups are in currently.

And here you are asking for a system that's akin to being handed a Masters Degree without attending university. I'm sorry but no.You want to raid, there's plenty of ways to get into it that don't take the dumbest and most destructive route possible that is removing the human components and social requirements.

You say this now. Give it a couple years and Raids will be singing a different tune. Much like everything else.

[Linken.6345]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Would be nice if we had other options for raids, like auto join or different difficulty levels. It's too hard to connect with people and organize a group. In lieu of that I feel like they should just make raids much more casual, in order to lower player scrutiny so we can actually do them. I love hard content but organizing the group and jumping through the hoops is too much work and it's tedious. Please consider making raids more palatable for everyone.

"I love hard content, but I don't really want to put any effort so please make it casual instead. Thx".

I'm willing to put in maximum effort when it comes to player skill and game mechanics. But maximum effort to psychologically impress strangers into working together, and dealing with all of their problems or shortcomings, that's just a ton of unfun work.So if you are unwilling to put in the effort to get people to work together why do you want to raid? Raiding is group content with all that is involved in forming a group. There is also if you are unwilling or unable to join or make a static pug raiding.

Yah I'm trying to find a way to make the grouping process less tedious, painful, and scrutinizing. I don't care if they lower the raid difficulty or not, I'm simply looking for ways to reduce the problems and chunkiness and tedium that is organizing a group. Yes I'd be OK if they nerfed raids into the ground if it made grouping easier.

don't pug, get a guildproblem solved

That's not really problem solved as all the scrutinizing I mentioned above takes place still. Trying to mitigate that.

that's not a problem with raids that's a problem with the ppl you raid with.you can change raids all you want ppl will stay jerks.

Probably true but the effort to find new people is equally tedious, so tedious that I've refused to do content that i excel at, simply because getting in with a good group requires too much time and effort.

I've talked to other players who echo the same sentiments and wish there was a no hassle way to raid with minimal talking or effort put in to find good players. Also finding good players or getting into a raid group isn't even playing the game. If your doing that you're just standing around, it's boring and feels like work.

Since you talked to other players then keep talking to other players and when you found 9 others that think the same as you form a raid squad.Im waiting here eagerly how you did.I mean with 10 people that cant work together only know how to keep them selfs alive as a single player.

No I don't want to talk to 10 other players when most mmos have raid experiences that don't require me too, why should I be expected to on here? Simply because they don't have the feature? I'm asking them to add these features.

Talking to players is an optional experience in this game that has no real relation to actual gameplay. Think about it, if I talk to 10 players does that somehow increase my skill level or ability to perform? No it only affects whether I am included in certain things or not, a problem which many other mmos have addressed in various manners.

That "talking to others increases my skill lvl or ability to perform?" includes making it known to the group that you might lack experience or asking for tips or asking if they know x and y thing so you can be more focushed on your own play.

So yes, talking to others influences your ability to perform.

Really so I play better if I talk to others? Like my personal skill level increases and I press the buttons faster and move more precisely the more I talk with other players?

No but you might know if the group is going for greens or out healing them at one spot on vg for example or if they do updraft on gorseval or just dps through it.Or if they are doing range strat or melee strat on deimos.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Raids should be overhauled to add features so that everyone is accomodated. From people wanting easier difficulty to people who want additional features for grouping. 99% of other mmos that have raids do this. You guys can nitpick my post all you want or white knight it up, but what I'm saying makes sense, as having these features for raid has been an established precedent in most other mmos.

Me simply requesting them is common sense.

You know whats more common sense than your request ?

Raids are meant to be challenging. Changing that goes against the principle design and thus wont happen.

Challenging how, apparently finding a decent group is part of the challenge and excitement of the raid lol? That's like saying I'm going to eat at a restraunt but my favorite part is washing the dishes and having to manage the wait staff and the cooks before I get food.

I can't take this seriously....

Do you honestly think that if i right now logged in formed a squad and picked 9 other random people you'd be ready to raid ?If you do then you have serious missgivings about what makes a raid group successful. People put in time and formed relationships with each other, fostered communication and put in several attempts before their first kills let alone getting to the state their raid groups are in currently.

And here you are asking for a system that's akin to being handed a Masters Degree without attending university. I'm sorry but no.You want to raid, there's plenty of ways to get into it that don't take the dumbest and most destructive route possible that is removing the human components and social requirements.

To answer your question, the answer is yes

[Feanor.2358]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Would be nice if we had other options for raids, like auto join or different difficulty levels. It's too hard to connect with people and organize a group. In lieu of that I feel like they should just make raids much more casual, in order to lower player scrutiny so we can actually do them. I love hard content but organizing the group and jumping through the hoops is too much work and it's tedious. Please consider making raids more palatable for everyone.

"I love hard content, but I don't really want to put any effort so please make it casual instead. Thx".

I'm willing to put in maximum effort when it comes to player skill and game mechanics. But maximum effort to psychologically impress strangers into working together, and dealing with all of their problems or shortcomings, that's just a ton of unfun work.

That, however, is not how it works. You don't jump straight to clearing, you walk the whole path. Wanna know how I started? I took the initiative. I pestered my guild to go kill VG until we had almost a full team. Then we pugged a few more - obviously on our terms, so we didn't have to impress anyone, even more so as we advertised the group as a practice - and we eventually got the kill.

[BOAsnake.7401]

You actually sound like a spoiled child. "I dont wanna do something every raiders do, change it", have you even payed attention to the nunber of people disagreeing with you on this thread?

[Linken.6345]

@"BOAsnake.7401" said:You actually sound like a spoiled child. "I dont wanna do something every raiders do, change it", have you even payed attention to the nunber of people disagreeing with you on this thread?

No becouse the OP think they are right so dont matter how many others that are wrong mate.

[LadyKitty.6120]

Kitty can't really help but wonder what OP's going on about. Raids don't exactly require talking, writing is enough for communicating. Most squads that mention discord do so so that you'd hear the commander. They very rarely require actually talking (and actually lots of people prefer to have voice chat reserved for commands during the fights). Kitty's not a talker at all due to social anxiety yet she's never had any issues with listening to discord and writing in response. And she has at least 500 kills under her belt at this point.

And when it comes to raid difficulty, they are suitably difficult atm. Similar to fractals tiers, they have some entry-level bosses and harder bosses. The usual progression is to first join training squads to learn the mechanics and get your first kills. After learning the easier bosses, people move to next bosses, like Gors and Sab.It's not like raids are actually exclusive. Literally anyone can do them as long as they have even somewhat suitable gears for role (you don't simply power dps in Shaman's), they at least somewhat know how to play their class (Kitty personally requires 20k golem dps from her training dps guildies and decent boon output from supports) and they're ready to put in some time to practise the mechanics. Anyone can do those 3 things. Anyone. So the actual limiting factor is if people are willing to put in the little time for those. Raids and fractal dailies are essentially the best reward per time spent in GW2 and if you don't want to put any effort into learning, you don't find it rewarding enough for you. No pain, no gain.

E: And if people have issues finding training/casual clear squads, raid training discords are a good place to start. Raiders in Training (NA-servers) for example.

[TarkaTarquol.4856]

One point really stuck out to me among this melting pot of I don't even know what to call it: You seem adamant on avoiding communication. I'm curious, what genre of game is Guild Wars 2? Answer: MMORPG, an acronym for Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. If you want to continue with the end-game content of this game, you have to accept that you will have to play with nine other strangers.

Why do you think your suggestion of "Auto-Join" would be any different than what's currently available? That is, utilizing the Raid subsection of the LFG Tool. "W1 LF DPS" Left-Click Join, boom. You're in. How is that so difficult? Also, if you're so sure of your ability to perform your role, you don't have to expend any amount of brain cells in "impressing" those other nine. Do your job and do it well, and they won't say a word. I've pugged many wings where literally not a single word was said, because I joined as the requested role, everyone knew what to do, and we just got right down to it. It does happen. But if you consistently screw up rotations, miss mechanics you're supposed to do (or, if you're adamant on not speaking at all, not realizing you were assigned a role), the other nine will take notice, and they will kick you because there are thousands of other players who are willing to communicate.

If simply talking with others is such a turn-off for you, why are you playing a game that literally encourages it? And don't pull any other game into this discussion. If they do it better, why are you not playing those games?

[Ohoni.6057]

Raiders will tell you that raids are already easy enough and that nobody wants this, and yet every few weeks a different person starts a thread asking for easier raids. Maybe raids aren't easy enough for everyone, and maybe there are some people who want this. . .

[LadyKitty.6120]

@"Ohoni.6057" said:Raiders will tell you that raids are already easy enough and that nobody wants this, and yet every few weeks a different person starts a thread asking for easier raids. Maybe raids aren't easy enough for everyone, and maybe there are some people who want this. . .

And how many of those people are ready to practise a bit? Like Kitty mentioned in her previous message, anyone can raid if they have proper gears for their role and if they're ready to spend an hour or a couple practising. Making easy mode for raids would take more time for devs to make more raids and in dev stuff, time is money.Raids aren't some "Give.Everything.Now." stuff and the main incentive for most people to play them isn't farming coin. It's the fun of beating the difficult challenge together. To tell something abput the difficulty level, Kitty's taken a squadful of people to Cairn for the first time, most hadn't even been inside a raid instance before. She explained the mechanics and we got the kill on 6th try. Once you get used to boss's mechanics, they're not so intimidating anymore. The usual time for first kills is about 3-10 hours of training a specific boss, sometimes even less.

[Ohoni.6057]

@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@"Ohoni.6057" said:Raiders will tell you that raids are already easy enough and that nobody wants this, and yet every few weeks a different person starts a thread asking for easier raids. Maybe raids

aren't

easy enough for

everyone,

and maybe there are

some

people who want this. . .

And how many of those people are ready to practise a bit?

Maybe not many, and that's fine. Being ready to practice should not be a prerequisite for having fun.

Like Kitty mentioned in her previous message, anyone can raid if they have proper gears for their role and if they're ready to spend an hour or a couple practising.

Not true, but even if it were, not relevant. Some people don't want to have to do that stuff, and that's ok.

Making easy mode for raids would take more time for devs to make more raids and in dev stuff, time is money.

True, but we have no idea how much. Making raids in the first place took a LOT more dev time and effort, and people around here seem to think that was a good decision.

Raids aren't some "Give.Everything.Now." stuff and the main incentive for most people to play them isn't farming coin.

But they could be! Never give up on your dreams!

It's the fun of beating the difficult challenge together.

The current version is, but that doesn't appeal to everyone. I say, leave the current version alone for those that enjoy them, but provide an alternative for those who don't.

To tell something abput the difficulty level, Kitty's taken a squadful of people to Cairn for the first time, most hadn't even been inside a raid instance before. She explained the mechanics and we got the kill on 6th try. Once you get used to boss's mechanics, they're not so intimidating anymore. The usual time for first kills is about 3-10 hours of training a specific boss, sometimes even less.

That's just one encounter out of a dozen or so though. It seems to be a bit of an outlier. And 3-10 hours is about 2.5-9 hours too long to prepare for a boss fight.

[LadyKitty.6120]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:Raiders will tell you that raids are already easy enough and that nobody wants this, and yet every few weeks a different person starts a thread asking for easier raids. Maybe raids

aren't

easy enough for

everyone,

and maybe there are

some

people who want this. . .

And how many of those people are ready to practise a bit?

Maybe not many, and that's fine. Being ready to practice should not be a prerequisite for having fun.

Like Kitty mentioned in her previous message, anyone can raid if they have proper gears for their role and if they're ready to spend an hour or a couple practising.

Not true, but even if it were, not relevant. Some people don't want to have to do that stuff, and that's ok.

Making easy mode for raids would take more time for devs to make more raids and in dev stuff, time is money.

True, but we have no idea how much. Making raids in the first place took a LOT more dev time and effort, and people around here seem to think

that

was a good decision.

Raids aren't some "Give.Everything.Now." stuff and the main incentive for most people to play them isn't farming coin.

But they

could

be! Never give up on your dreams!

It's the fun of beating the difficult challenge together.

The current version is, but that doesn't appeal to everyone. I say, leave the current version alone for those that enjoy them, but provide an alternative for those who don't.

To tell something abput the difficulty level, Kitty's taken a squadful of people to Cairn for the first time, most hadn't even been inside a raid instance before. She explained the mechanics and we got the kill on 6th try. Once you get used to boss's mechanics, they're not so intimidating anymore. The usual time for first kills is about 3-10 hours of training a specific boss, sometimes even less.

That's just one encounter out of a dozen or so though. It seems to be a bit of an outlier. And 3-10 hours is about 2.5-9 hours too long to prepare for a boss fight.

So in other words, you (and many others) want to make so easy mode for raids that even story instances would be multiple times more difficult. From how it sounds, those players can't even do half of the personal story missions without 2-3 helpers. Can they actually do anything but roam around in open-world (and most likely q.q that HoT mobs are too evil)?

The smell of a troll is strong in this one.

[yann.1946]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:Making easy mode for raids would take more time for devs to make more raids and in dev stuff, time is money.

True, but we have no idea how much. Making raids in the first place took a LOT more dev time and effort, and people around here seem to think

that

was a good decision.

Well mostly because it pulled an audience in.

It's the fun of beating the difficult challenge together.

The current version is, but that doesn't appeal to everyone. I say, leave the current version alone for those that enjoy them, but provide an alternative for those who don't.

But this was not really the op was talking about he even admitted he wouldn't mind completely gutting raids if it would allow him to have easier grouping option.

To tell something abput the difficulty level, Kitty's taken a squadful of people to Cairn for the first time, most hadn't even been inside a raid instance before. She explained the mechanics and we got the kill on 6th try. Once you get used to boss's mechanics, they're not so intimidating anymore. The usual time for first kills is about 3-10 hours of training a specific boss, sometimes even less.

That's just one encounter out of a dozen or so though. It seems to be a bit of an outlier. And 3-10 hours is about 2.5-9 hours too long to prepare for a boss fight.

But well that was what raiding is about anyway. I know we don't see eye to eye on easy mode. While you try to take atleast the current population into consideration the OP basically wants to destroy the current version if it would make it more convinient for him.

[Ohoni.6057]

@LadyKitty.6120 said:So in other words, you (and many others) want to make so easy mode for raids that even story instances would be multiple times more difficult. From how it sounds, those players can't even do half of the personal story missions without 2-3 helpers. Can they actually do anything but roam around in open-world (and most likely q.q that HoT mobs are too evil)?

I wouldn't go quite that far.

The smell of a troll is strong in this one.

I know, but I was too polite to mention it.

@yann.1946 said:Well mostly because it pulled an audience in.

And it also pushed an audience away, it's hard to tell what the balance on that would be.

But this was not really the op was talking about he even admitted he wouldn't mind completely gutting raids if it would allow him to have easier grouping option.

Eh, tomayto/tomahto.

But well that was what raiding is about anyway.

The current ones, yeah, but they don't have to be! Dream big!

While you try to take atleast the current population into consideration the OP basically wants to destroy the current version if it would make it more convinient for him.

So why don't we compromise and agree on a solution that would work for everyone? Leave the current raids alone, but add an easier option that everyone else can enjoy too?

[Feanor.2358]

@"Ohoni.6057" said:

But well that was what raiding is about anyway.

The

current

ones, yeah,

but they don't have to be!

Dream big!

Actually they do have to be. Otherwise they'd just be more open world - faceroll content that litters your inventory with stuff for randomly pressing a button every once in a while. If that's your "big dream", then I honestly pity you.