Swim Speed Infusion +30 overgrind

[Pimpology.6234]

@MetalGirl.2370 said:Well I'm glad they gave us increased swim speed and skimmer hover speed since anything water related is dead, so it's convenient that we can pass by/skip it faster.

It would have been more convenient to just increase the swim speed permanently instead of grind time.If its dead why bother fixing the skills now? seems like a huge waste of resources. ANET LOGIC?I think something is coming...

[Karaha.3290]

You mean there's something in the water?

[Pifil.5193]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:But I didn't make any mistakes..You can craft the Swim+15, Swim+20, Swim+25, and Swim+30 without going through the intermediate steps. Cost is 72 silver instead of 32*4.5 silver. It adds up to major gold savings in reaching Swim+30, but it's dwarfed by the cost of the Swim+1, which is why I didn't want to digress the thread to point out the details.

You can't actually. In order to get a Swim +20, for example, you need 32 Swim +15s. Each Swim +15 is 32 Swim 10's. In order to get the Swim +25 you need 32 Swim +20s which is 32 32 Swim +15's or 32 32 * 32 Swim +10's. You can't skip steps you ultimately spend the same number of Swim 10's either way.

The same is true for the gold cost with each infusion you spend you also spend 2s 24c regardless of how you spend it: so buying a +11 costs 2 2s 24c = 4s 48c and 2 infusions and a +15 costs 32 2s 24c = 71s 68c and 32 infusions.

There's no savings or short cuts here.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

Could someone clarify - is the +10/+20/+30 on the infusions relative to move speed?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_SpeedAre we saying that to move an extra 30 units per second just underwater costs so much?If these assumptions are accurate then the following might be correct.

• Base forward move speed in combat - 210 units/second
• +30 u/s is approx 14% increase
• the difference between +20 and +30 infusion move speed contribution (in combat) is less than 5%.
• Outside of combat the 10u/s equates to 3.2% .

So in conclusion (using rough maths and an assumption about relativity) we can see that the difference between having a +20 and a +30 infusion is between 4.6% and 3.2% move speed (only applicable in water).That seems extraordinarily expensive. Does this suggest that there is a lot more underwater content upcoming to make this truly something worth investing in? I would say that current content doesn't really demand it in any way, could this change in the near future?

[Last Crysis.1934]

Nice one ANET this is one of the worse time gated items you have released. I just want to know if you have ppl that actually do the math first for things like this. (Probably not considering you did the same with the Moto to backpack collection)?

[Hybarf Tics.2048]

@Last Crysis.1934 said:Nice one ANET this is one of the worse time gated items you have released. I just want to know if you have ppl that actually do the math first for things like this. (Probably not considering you did the same with the Moto to backpack collection)?

They don't want to make it easy or even fun for us, they want to slave our character to the screen. Think of it this way more time online = more potential for you to hit the store. ;)

[Pifil.5193]

@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:Does this suggest that there is a lot more underwater content upcoming to make this truly something worth investing in? I would say that current content doesn't really demand it in any way, could this change in the near future?

I would say that the opposite is true, the fact that they're "selling" movement speed like this is a strong indication to me that they're pretty much done with underwater content. I mean, can you imagine the uproar and cries of pay 2 win (especially in WvW) if you could buy land movement speed in this way?

From this I think we can safely assume that there won't be any more underwater combat added to WvW where the ability to move faster than your enemy is a huge deal.

Similarly, the lack of agony resistence means you have to swap to non-swim speed waterbreathers for the underwater fractal which indicates to me that it can't ever be needed there either (and makes me doubt there'll ever be another added). While it's possible they may add +agony resistence versions of these I think that's also doubtful as it's a whole lot of new items to support all potential combinations of +1-30 agony and +10-30 swim speed.

So we've got a pretty niche item that looks like it won't or can't ever be needed anywhere and will really only be usable in open world PvE where, apart from what's required for map completion, you're usually better off just skimming over the surface. Caveat emptor, I guess.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless of a minor mistake in the OP's assumptions, the Swim+30 infusion is a complete arbitrary & unnecessary goal. The OP could, if they wanted, try to craft a +30 Agony Infusion. It would require half a million AR+1 and end up being worth over 14 million gold all told. It would be useful, since AR contributes to stats when used with fractal potions, but no one considers doing it seriously because the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Similarly, there's no reason to craft a Swim+30 infusion, so the high costs mentioned by the OP are just as meaningless. It's an arbitrary stopping place; ANet could just as well have had the vendor offer to make up to Swim+25 or Swim+35.

But I didn't make any mistakes.. Just pointing out the craziness of it... As a matter of fact, I would be correct in calling it an "overgrind", regardless of "needing" it or not.

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

You should listen to Celine Dion's beautiful voice in that video btw, it's quite enchanting.

Using the “we don’t need to play GW2” hyperbole really doesn’t offer much. It can be used for someone’s argument just as much as it can be used against.

Yes the game is optional to play and obtaining the maxed infusion is optional as well. Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional for those that choose to play the game.

TBH, if playing the game is optional, there’s really no need to make complaints as players can just not play the game if there’s something they do not like.

[ZNICK.8537]

Who cares. I don't swim.

[Swagger.1459]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless of a minor mistake in the OP's assumptions, the Swim+30 infusion is a complete arbitrary & unnecessary goal. The OP could, if they wanted, try to craft a +30 Agony Infusion. It would require half a million AR+1 and end up being worth over 14 million gold all told. It would be useful, since AR contributes to stats when used with fractal potions, but no one considers doing it seriously because the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Similarly, there's no reason to craft a Swim+30 infusion, so the high costs mentioned by the OP are just as meaningless. It's an arbitrary stopping place; ANet could just as well have had the vendor offer to make up to Swim+25 or Swim+35.

But I didn't make any mistakes.. Just pointing out the craziness of it... As a matter of fact, I would be correct in calling it an "overgrind", regardless of "needing" it or not.

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

You should listen to Celine Dion's beautiful voice in that video btw, it's quite enchanting.

Using the “we don’t need to play GW2” hyperbole really doesn’t offer much. It can be used for someone’s argument just as much as it can be used against.

Yes the game is optional to play and obtaining the maxed infusion is optional as well. Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional for those that choose to play the game.

TBH, if playing the game is optional, there’s really no need to make complaints as players can just not play the game if there’s something they do not like.

Ummm I was making a point to someone else. Thanks.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless of a minor mistake in the OP's assumptions, the Swim+30 infusion is a complete arbitrary & unnecessary goal. The OP could, if they wanted, try to craft a +30 Agony Infusion. It would require half a million AR+1 and end up being worth over 14 million gold all told. It would be useful, since AR contributes to stats when used with fractal potions, but no one considers doing it seriously because the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Similarly, there's no reason to craft a Swim+30 infusion, so the high costs mentioned by the OP are just as meaningless. It's an arbitrary stopping place; ANet could just as well have had the vendor offer to make up to Swim+25 or Swim+35.

But I didn't make any mistakes.. Just pointing out the craziness of it... As a matter of fact, I would be correct in calling it an "overgrind", regardless of "needing" it or not.

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

You should listen to Celine Dion's beautiful voice in that video btw, it's quite enchanting.

Using the “we don’t need to play GW2” hyperbole really doesn’t offer much. It can be used for someone’s argument just as much as it can be used against.

Yes the game is optional to play and obtaining the maxed infusion is optional as well. Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional for those that choose to play the game.

TBH, if playing the game is optional, there’s really no need to make complaints as players can just not play the game if there’s something they do not like.

Ummm I was making a point to someone else. Thanks.

And I was responding to what you were telling them.

[Swagger.1459]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless of a minor mistake in the OP's assumptions, the Swim+30 infusion is a complete arbitrary & unnecessary goal. The OP could, if they wanted, try to craft a +30 Agony Infusion. It would require half a million AR+1 and end up being worth over 14 million gold all told. It would be useful, since AR contributes to stats when used with fractal potions, but no one considers doing it seriously because the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Similarly, there's no reason to craft a Swim+30 infusion, so the high costs mentioned by the OP are just as meaningless. It's an arbitrary stopping place; ANet could just as well have had the vendor offer to make up to Swim+25 or Swim+35.

But I didn't make any mistakes.. Just pointing out the craziness of it... As a matter of fact, I would be correct in calling it an "overgrind", regardless of "needing" it or not.

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

You should listen to Celine Dion's beautiful voice in that video btw, it's quite enchanting.

Using the “we don’t need to play GW2” hyperbole really doesn’t offer much. It can be used for someone’s argument just as much as it can be used against.

Yes the game is optional to play and obtaining the maxed infusion is optional as well. Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional for those that choose to play the game.

TBH, if playing the game is optional, there’s really no need to make complaints as players can just not play the game if there’s something they do not like.

Ummm I was making a point to someone else. Thanks.

And I was responding to what you were telling them.

You do not understand the context of the sentence... "Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.".. It's like saying we don't need a lot of stuff, but it's still a grind to get regardless of need or not. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE GRIND whether we need it or don't. Is this understandable?

Edit- It's generally helpful if you understand why a poster makes a particular comment, by reading the person they are quoting. It's also helpful to take in an entire sentence, not just a portion of it and make assumptions.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless of a minor mistake in the OP's assumptions, the Swim+30 infusion is a complete arbitrary & unnecessary goal. The OP could, if they wanted, try to craft a +30 Agony Infusion. It would require half a million AR+1 and end up being worth over 14 million gold all told. It would be useful, since AR contributes to stats when used with fractal potions, but no one considers doing it seriously because the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Similarly, there's no reason to craft a Swim+30 infusion, so the high costs mentioned by the OP are just as meaningless. It's an arbitrary stopping place; ANet could just as well have had the vendor offer to make up to Swim+25 or Swim+35.

But I didn't make any mistakes.. Just pointing out the craziness of it... As a matter of fact, I would be correct in calling it an "overgrind", regardless of "needing" it or not.

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

You should listen to Celine Dion's beautiful voice in that video btw, it's quite enchanting.

Using the “we don’t need to play GW2” hyperbole really doesn’t offer much. It can be used for someone’s argument just as much as it can be used against.

Yes the game is optional to play and obtaining the maxed infusion is optional as well. Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional for those that choose to play the game.

TBH, if playing the game is optional, there’s really no need to make complaints as players can just not play the game if there’s something they do not like.

Ummm I was making a point to someone else. Thanks.

And I was responding to what you were telling them.

You do not understand the context of the sentence... "Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.".. It's like saying we don't need a lot of stuff, but it's still a grind to get regardless of need or not. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE GRIND whether we need it or don't. Is this understandable?

I understand the context just fine. You’re using the “we don’t need to play GW2” as a counterargument to someone’s argument that you don’t need the maxed infusion.

The fact that you’re not liking what I said is entirely the point I was trying to make as I essentially flipped it to be against you the same way that you used it against them. Any disagreements that you have against it being used against you are the very same things that can be used against how you used it. The reason being it has no correlation to either side.

Edit: To put it in another way

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

Is the same as

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to complain about something we dislike.

Playing the game is optional in either case.

[Swagger.1459]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Regardless of a minor mistake in the OP's assumptions, the Swim+30 infusion is a complete arbitrary & unnecessary goal. The OP could, if they wanted, try to craft a +30 Agony Infusion. It would require half a million AR+1 and end up being worth over 14 million gold all told. It would be useful, since AR contributes to stats when used with fractal potions, but no one considers doing it seriously because the benefits aren't worth the costs.

Similarly, there's no reason to craft a Swim+30 infusion, so the high costs mentioned by the OP are just as meaningless. It's an arbitrary stopping place; ANet could just as well have had the vendor offer to make up to Swim+25 or Swim+35.

But I didn't make any mistakes.. Just pointing out the craziness of it... As a matter of fact, I would be correct in calling it an "overgrind", regardless of "needing" it or not.

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

You should listen to Celine Dion's beautiful voice in that video btw, it's quite enchanting.

Using the “we don’t need to play GW2” hyperbole really doesn’t offer much. It can be used for someone’s argument just as much as it can be used against.

Yes the game is optional to play and obtaining the maxed infusion is optional as well. Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional for those that choose to play the game.

TBH, if playing the game is optional, there’s really no need to make complaints as players can just not play the game if there’s something they do not like.

Ummm I was making a point to someone else. Thanks.

And I was responding to what you were telling them.

You do not understand the context of the sentence... "Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.".. It's like saying we don't need a lot of stuff, but it's still a grind to get regardless of need or not. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE GRIND whether we need it or don't. Is this understandable?

I understand the context just fine. You’re using the “we don’t need to play GW2” as a counterargument to someone’s argument that you don’t need the maxed infusion.

The fact that you’re not liking what I said is entirely the point I was trying to make as I essentially flipped it to be against you the same way that you used it against them. Any disagreements that you have against it being used against you are the very same things that can be used against how you used it. The reason being it has no correlation to either side.

Edit: To put it in another way

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to craft that infusion, but that's besides the point.

Is the same as

Also, we don't "need" to play GW2 either, much in the way we don't "need" to complain about something we dislike.

Playing the game is optional in either case.

It was a rebuttal to a dismissive post, no need to drag this out to some philosophical spin doctor debate.

“Just because playing the game is optional doesn’t make grinding out that infusion any less optional”

That’s the spirit of what I was saying, so you don’t have to enlighten me about my comments. It’s like preaching to the choir.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

Can this weird little slap fight between you two please stop

[Pifil.5193]

@OrbitalButt.5708 said:Can this weird little slap fight between you two please stop

Sshh! I have 10g on Swagger. ;)

[LucianDK.8615]

Just like AR infusions. They have added them up to an unbelievable high level, but noone is to realistically getting those.

I think getting +20 is a far more realistic goal to aim for. Especially as mentioned above its only a few % improvement to get a +30 over it.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:So how fast is a +30

That's what I want to know! No one has yet answered my question in my thread on this. Can't wait for some math regarding the speed. ;)

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:So how fast is a +30

That's what I want to know! No one has yet answered my question in my thread on this. Can't wait for some math regarding the speed. ;)

If the numeral actually represent +X% movement speed, it's just a smidge below Swiftness.

[Esterie.7409]

It's also super fun when you open your daily chest and get 0 infusions. This has happened three days in a row for me now (and I haven't gotten a key as a random drop yet, only from the daily).

Considering the sheer number of infusions needed to get the +30 infusion, I had no idea not getting any infusions at all from a sunken chest was even possible. I'm just a bit bitter about it.

[LucianDK.8615]

30 seems completely unrealistic, tbh. Just to give perfectionists something to dream about.

[Ziooo.8932]

@Kalendraf.9521 said:

@Ziooo.8932 said:

The max keys per day is 10

and the max infusions per chest is 4

right?

I mean, if its actually possible to grind 10 keys in a day, thats like 26k days getting the max value off of each key without taking into account the time it takes to find them LOL.

How do you get 10 keys per day? I managed to get 2 on the first day (1 from NPC + 1 from daily 10/10 krait kills), but now I'm likely down to 1 per day from the daily. If they're from mob drops, what's the likelyhood of those? I have yet to see any dropped by mobs after this patch went live.

I was actually pondering myself if it had a limit there, i heard some people saying in game it had, and it was 10. Tbh, i dont think it has a daily limit.

Anyhow, i got one key yesterday from doing fractals. From what i see, everything has a small chance of dropping a key, but its so small that you actually won't see one drop everyday. Now, by my blurry maths it would take 72 YEARS with 10 keys DAILY getting the MAXIMUM VALUE (4) from EACH key. But normally you'll only get one key. And you can get absolutely nothing from that one key. Actually, even if you opened 10 you could still gain 0 infusion from them... so yeah... assuming 1 key daily (100% chance from achiev) and 2 infusions per key (0-4 per chest, assuming its 20% chance per roll), thats like OVER 1400 YEARS to complete.

Hello 36th century i guess.

[VanWilder.6923]

This Swim Speed infusion is going to be most time cosuming, expensive stuff of all time. How long would a +30% swim speed take for a player to recover its cost by doing underwater events where +30 is actually useful? The gap between time,cost and reward is miscalculated!

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I have yet to find a reason to utilize the functionality of the infusion. However, I'd like to warn some overly excited about this - there is possibility of underwater mount in the future that will most likely surpass the infusion bonus. Do not grind this unless you are TP baron or a whale to avoid future disappointments.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Its new, people want it now.New stuff is always expensive.I usually just sell my breather infusions now, lots of gold.And in a few months they’ll probably be jack cheap.