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"GW2 has no healers" .... I wish they did :(

FASTCAR.7831

By FASTCAR.7831
in World vs. World

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Chorazin.4107

Chorazin.4107

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I kind of prefer the initial game play where you had to co-ordinate blasting water fields for your big healing boosts. Apart from that you relied on your one self heal or regen. The game evolved or the design team lost sight of the fields/finishers concept. Now u just load a tempest or FB with minstrels gear.

You might occasionally blast a field, but it used to be a mainstay of group play, blasting fire fields for your might, lightning for your swiftness, water for your heals and smoke for your stealth.

The update to light field shows you just how out of touch the design team is with how wvw plays. You can clear one condition when you blast a light field. It's not even worth taking the time to clear one condition by wasting a blast finisher. By the time you have dropped the light field and blasted it you have probably acquired another 8 conditions.

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Buy Some Apples.6390

Buy Some Apples.6390

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There are several builds which can be used as healer builds.

Problem is:1) Loot is based on damaging target above a certain amount in order for you to tag it for loot. Healer builds have very very low tag rate, hence very very low loot2) The condi cancer meta is literally cancer. You cannot heal and cleanse the condis at anywhere near close to the rate at which condis are applied. By the time you remove all condis you are full of consid again and your skills are on cooldown for 10 to 30 seconds, all the while more condis are added and refreshed.

So in order to even just level it, you will probably need half your zerg on these healer builds, all of whom will get very low amount of loot keeping their dps members alive, who will get all the loot.

Or you can play the condi meta of 90% necro scourges and everyone gets loot, even if they wipe to the enemy condi zerg they still get a bit of loot.When players of these healing build win again the enemy zerg, they still get very little loot for all the effort they put in.

I believe Anet devs call this balance.

They got rid of the trinity, only reward dps players, and completely forgot about those who like to play healer builds.

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Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

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@"Buy Some Apples.6390" said:So in order to even just level it, you will probably need half your zerg on these healer builds, all of whom will get very low amount of loot keeping their dps members alive, who will get all the loot.

Except they will get no loot either way, cause they wont win the fights. The thing is, the "scourge zerg" will always win over the "firebrand zerg" because the former dont need to sustain. One push, even a meh push, will probably down their squishiest people or scatter them. Stragglers will be left behind and killed by gankers one by one because while the zergball can heal, it's taking too long to do anything for the rest. Skills go on cooldowns. And then after a time the "firebrand zerg" wont have any dps at all. And that's how you die.

I always find it amusing that the number 1 complaint about commanders nowadays is always "we need more firebrands!". No, you really dont. You need people that know what they are doing.

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Elva.6372

Elva.6372

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@"Buy Some Apples.6390" said:There are several builds which can be used as healer builds.

Problem is:1) Loot is based on damaging target above a certain amount in order for you to tag it for loot. Healer builds have very very low tag rate, hence very very low loot2) The condi cancer meta is literally cancer. You cannot heal and cleanse the condis at anywhere near close to the rate at which condis are applied. By the time you remove all condis you are full of consid again and your skills are on cooldown for 10 to 30 seconds, all the while more condis are added and refreshed.

So in order to even just level it, you will probably need half your zerg on these healer builds, all of whom will get very low amount of loot keeping their dps members alive, who will get all the loot.

Or you can play the condi meta of 90% necro scourges and everyone gets loot, even if they wipe to the enemy condi zerg they still get a bit of loot.When players of these healing build win again the enemy zerg, they still get very little loot for all the effort they put in.

I believe Anet devs call this balance.

They got rid of the trinity, only reward dps players, and completely forgot about those who like to play healer builds.

You border on heresy, good Sir! (or Ma'am)

Rethinking the Trinity of MMO Design

Unfortunately, skill-based systems also have some well-known problems. The first is that they can be hard to balance, especially for inexperienced designers. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that players will take the most powerful set of skills available, leading to a lot of "flavor of the month" setups.

Because of this problem, characters are not diverse, despite a system that should allow for a wide variety of abilities. A skill-based system with some refinements, such as opposition skills that cannot be taken together, could solve some of these well-known issues.

Linked below is a good commentary about how we don't necessarily get higher levels of "diversity in play-styles" when the Trinity gets dumped.

Why MMOs Should Keep the Trinity

One of the most popular arguments against the holy trinity is that it discourages diversity in classes. It’s an understandable complaint: doing difficult content in a trinity-based game often requires you to focus solely on stats and skills related to your role. Jacks-of-all-trades are, at the end of the day, masters of none, and can have a hard time finding a group who wants to support their “sub-optimal” playstyle.

However, while many current trinity-free MMOs offer a fascinating selection of class abilities, it seems that in practice all players focus on one thing: doing damage. Any deviation from either doing lots of damage or enabling others to do lots of damage is frowned upon by the general playerbase.

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Elva.6372

Elva.6372

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@Jski.6180 said:There use to be no healers and now old effects balanced around no healers are worthless.

My pet theory is that the Holy Trinity is starting to coalesce into the game as it evolves and the Devs have to keep beating it back down with a stick.

Life, Uh, Finds a Way

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ZNICK.8537

ZNICK.8537

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I'm not too sure about the loot... I've been playing full healz on my Tempest and if it's a world or meta event I still get the chest, and in WvW (where I spend more time) I still get pips, etc..

In what instance do healers get less loot?

Z

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Jski.6180

Jski.6180

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@Elva.6372 said:

@Jski.6180 said:There use to be no healers and now old effects balanced around no healers are worthless.

My pet theory is that the Holy Trinity is starting to coalesce into the game as it evolves and the Devs have to keep beating it back down with a stick.

Life, Uh, Finds a Way

I was liked the hexagram system more then the trinity.

The problem is old systems have not been updated to match the trinity system that feels forced on you in gw2 now. HoT really messed up balancing for a lot of skills and effects.

Blasting waters is next to worthless unless its self blasting blasting fire is a waist of time.

@ZNICK.8537 said:I'm not too sure about the loot... I've been playing full healz on my Tempest and if it's a world or meta event I still get the chest, and in WvW (where I spend more time) I still get pips, etc..

In what instance do healers get less loot?

Z

A lot of support builds cant waist there time doing any thing else but support. As a tempest if your realty a support build for your group and your going out of water your group is dead. If you find your self able to go out side of water then your not a support for your group some one else is your simply there.

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DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

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@Elva.6372 said:

@"Buy Some Apples.6390" said:There are several builds which can be used as healer builds.

Problem is:1) Loot is based on damaging target above a certain amount in order for you to tag it for loot. Healer builds have very very low tag rate, hence very very low loot2) The condi cancer meta is literally cancer. You cannot heal and cleanse the condis at anywhere near close to the rate at which condis are applied. By the time you remove all condis you are full of consid again and your skills are on cooldown for 10 to 30 seconds, all the while more condis are added and refreshed.

So in order to even just level it, you will probably need half your zerg on these healer builds, all of whom will get very low amount of loot keeping their dps members alive, who will get all the loot.

Or you can play the condi meta of 90% necro scourges and everyone gets loot, even if they wipe to the enemy condi zerg they still get a bit of loot.When players of these healing build win again the enemy zerg, they still get very little loot for all the effort they put in.

I believe Anet devs call this balance.

They got rid of the trinity, only reward dps players, and completely forgot about those who like to play healer builds.

You border on heresy, good Sir! (or Ma'am)

Unfortunately, skill-based systems also have some well-known problems. The first is that they can be hard to balance, especially for inexperienced designers. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that players will take the most powerful set of skills available, leading to a lot of "flavor of the month" setups.

Because of this problem, characters are not diverse, despite a system that should allow for a wide variety of abilities. A skill-based system with some refinements, such as opposition skills that cannot be taken together, could solve some of these well-known issues.

Linked below is a good commentary about how we don't necessarily get higher levels of "diversity in play-styles" when the Trinity gets dumped.

One of the most popular arguments against the holy trinity is that it discourages diversity in classes. It’s an understandable complaint: doing difficult content in a trinity-based game often requires you to focus solely on stats and skills related to your role. Jacks-of-all-trades are, at the end of the day, masters of none, and can have a hard time finding a group who wants to support their “sub-optimal” playstyle.

However, while many current trinity-free MMOs offer a fascinating selection of class abilities, it seems that in practice all players focus on one thing: doing damage. Any deviation from either doing lots of damage or enabling others to do lots of damage is frowned upon by the general playerbase.

This is the result of poor and oversimplified encounter design rather than a direct negative of no trinity.

Trinity games just force styles of play on people. Any other optimization in role-less games is the result of player mentality of speeding through content and nothing more.

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FASTCAR.7831

FASTCAR.7831

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@ZNICK.8537 said:I'm not too sure about the loot... I've been playing full healz on my Tempest and if it's a world or meta event I still get the chest, and in WvW (where I spend more time) I still get pips, etc..

In what instance do healers get less loot?

Z

I get plenty of loot and a high amount of red items.Some days 3-4

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DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

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@Buy Some Apples.6390 said:There are several builds which can be used as healer builds.

Problem is:1) Loot is based on damaging target above a certain amount in order for you to tag it for loot. Healer builds have very very low tag rate, hence very very low loot

This isn't true. Loot and WXP is also shared to people healing after a certain threshold amount of heals. So long as someone you heal gets a tag, you'll get the loot, too.

In a number of cases, the healers I've played with have gotten the most loot because they get loot coming in from two different sides of a fight or from people they've healed who have moved away from them and gotten kills.

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Felipe.1807

Felipe.1807

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Dont think somebody ever said that GW2 never had healers...this could be true on old PvE dungeons, but there is a reason why amulets like Minstrell, Clerics and Magi got removed from sPvP...but its cool that you are playing tempest and warrior as a healer/support role, would be cool if you uploaded a vid of a GvG against other guild playing with only Eles and Wars support without FB...you say both are better then Firebrand, for sure would show to the community that FB is not the end all and be all build and that Ele and War(Druid to maybe?) can be used on zergs too....

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