High Elves

[navystylz.9745]

@derd.6413 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:IMO, while the game is clearly oriented to "heroics", IMO it is much more oriented to Fashion Wars. This includes the imagined personality of your own main character. So you can make a feisty silvary, a gloomy asura, a menacing human or a suave charr. Or whatever combination you want. If you want a shining paladin, you can make it with any of the races. If you want a gray anti-hero, you can make it with any of the races.

That is the main problem with Largos, Drows or any group that is, by default, forced into a single stereotype. Put a Largos on land, and you lose half what makes them interesting. Change them into a frilly robe, and you lose another 25%. Now make such robe chick yellow, and bam, you've lost 95% of what makes a Largos a Largos.Go back to the beggining. Put your Largos in water, with its black leather on and its dangerous voice. Now take that mask off. You have now a wet human with a funny backpack and cool clothes. Bye bye 100% of Largosness in just one stroke.

Stereotypes doesn't make good characters, but they are even worse for making races.

Every race has a stereotype. You just need to allow individuals of that race subvert it. The problem with largos specificly is that alot of their alure is in the mystery surrounding them and allowing us to play them would mean loosing that alure.

While anet could reveal that what's under the mask is also very interesting, largos would still loose something and we can only say if the price was worth it in hindsight.

I'd hope it would be a bunch of shark-like teeth made for tearing up fish and other prey raw. And sharp claws under the gloves for same reason.

[derd.6413]

@navystylz.9745 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:IMO, while the game is clearly oriented to "heroics", IMO it is much more oriented to Fashion Wars. This includes the imagined personality of your own main character. So you can make a feisty silvary, a gloomy asura, a menacing human or a suave charr. Or whatever combination you want. If you want a shining paladin, you can make it with any of the races. If you want a gray anti-hero, you can make it with any of the races.

That is the main problem with Largos, Drows or any group that is, by default, forced into a single stereotype. Put a Largos on land, and you lose half what makes them interesting. Change them into a frilly robe, and you lose another 25%. Now make such robe chick yellow, and bam, you've lost 95% of what makes a Largos a Largos.Go back to the beggining. Put your Largos in water, with its black leather on and its dangerous voice. Now take that mask off. You have now a wet human with a funny backpack and cool clothes. Bye bye 100% of Largosness in just one stroke.

Stereotypes doesn't make good characters, but they are even worse for making races.

Every race has a stereotype. You just need to allow individuals of that race subvert it. The problem with largos specificly is that alot of their alure is in the mystery surrounding them and allowing us to play them would mean loosing that alure.

While anet could reveal that what's under the mask is also very interesting, largos would still loose something and we can only say if the price was worth it in hindsight.

I'd hope it would be a bunch of shark-like teeth made for tearing up fish and other prey raw. And sharp claws under the gloves for same reason.

i was hoping their unmasked face looked like a deap sea predator. an anglerfish or goblinshark kinda deal

[LucianDK.8615]

Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

[sorudo.9054]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

to me charr is the most plainest and boring fantasy race, even a human has more sense then the charr.....then again, you must really lack imagination to call elfs boring, most used yes but boring is the last thing they are.

[yann.1946]

@"Rauderi.8706" said:In case the tone of the game was missed, it's about heroes. Not "anti" heroes or other edgy nonsense. The closest thing we have to that is Braham trying to go off half-cocked in grief, and the player reaction to that emo was so aggressive, the writing is already starting to turn it around.

I don't love Canach. He's little more than an annoying quip machine who won't admit what's actually on his mind. He wants to go save the world, but he has to pretend it's for some selfish or put-upon reason. That's not anti-hero. That's whining.

Water-drow. That's really all that needs to be said about the Largos. A society that cut-throat would cannibalize itself and never become prominent enough to be more than a little player among the five allied races. Skritt have a better chance of being more civilized. To insist otherwise is beyond boring, it's eye-rolling.As for the evil part, the only real reason the Drow are featured is to be a foil for D'ribbles or D'irigibles or whatever his name is, so he can defy them to be the good character born of his edgy, tragic-backstory race.

Funnily enough, a large chunk of time has passed, and some factions of the various societies decided "hey, there's a global threat in the dragons, maybe we should cease-fire." It didn't take the US half that amount of time to go from Nukes to Anime. Step away from the RP in Divinity's Reach and it's easy to see the tensions still lingering. There isn't even a truce, and humans could be obliterated at any moment, but the leadership is mostly wise and focused on the larger threats.

Their are quite a few people who like canach tho. It's not because you don't like edgy characters that they don't bring anything to the game.

It's just funny to see the discrimination against Joko because he's a lichNo. omg no. He's a villain because he abuses power and promotes lies to strip people of their freedom and oppress his lessers. I can't even...Not to say he's not a good

villain

character. He's got power, he has the demented will, and a kingdom of brainwashed living and undead just waiting for his return. Stepping into Vabbi was a real "ew" feeling because of how similar it was to real-world dictatorships, and it's great. That Joko's empire uses (usually) willing undead is a fascinating spin on necromancy, and I love it.But he's still a

villain

and I look forward to destroying him and his army.

We'll honestly i would have prefered it if they didn't ad the vabi acadamy. He's honestly as much a villain as the arcane council is a villain.

[Dante.1763]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

to me charr is the most plainest and boring fantasy race, even a human has more sense then the charr.....then again, you must really lack imagination to call elfs boring, most used yes but boring is the last thing they are.

Funny i find charr to be one of the most interesting fantasy races, and elves incredibly boring.

[LucianDK.8615]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

to me charr is the most plainest and boring fantasy race, even a human has more sense then the charr.....then again, you must really lack imagination to call elfs boring, most used yes but boring is the last thing they are.

Elves are massively overexposed and ultrageneric fantasy tropes. At least Charr is unique. Horned anthromorphic felines with 4 ears.And in regards to blood elves, come BFA, they will now be able to get golden eyes due to the cleansing of the sunwell. Such a delightful sticking it to the helf crowd on ally side. They got the thallasian elf model in void elves with fantastic racials.

It only makes sense that allys -never- gets helves. it would take away from the whole plotline of the helves leaving the alliance in disgust to become blood elves. The once high elves have become horde now, even if it so gravely upsets those whom cant look past the tolkienish trinity of humans, high elves and dwarves with knights, kings and castles.

[castlemanic.3198]

@sorudo.9054 said:i sense the problem here, there are 3 types of ppl.

• ppl who want to stick with what we know
• ppl who want to explore beyond what we know
• ppl who don't want anything beyond tyria (continent) but also don't want to much to change

the sad part here is that allot of ppl are the first and third, not many are in the second.now i agree that the most generic things should not be in tyria to begin with but we should also not push away anything generic that is already in tyria from the start.having a lost or other-family dwarven races would fit regardless, , even while the current lore tells us all dwarfs are stone there is plenty of room for other interpretations of that statement. (before their final statement it was always deldrimor dwarfs and no other)

another part is that some races could exist while we never saw them, no lore has ever mentioned them and nothing is known about them.this is the kind of race they could introduce without having to worry about lore, a brand new race that no one ever saw in the time span of guild wars.you have to keep in mind, although the game is getting bigger, we have yet to explore most of the planet.looking at the planet map, only a fraction of tyria is known by us and so many other races and places can exist without us even knowing.

This is a complete and total cop out of an assessment with regards to the conversation in this thread and solely places anyone who's against having elves in Tyria as being in the 'closed minded' groupings. It's actually a little infuriating to see that THIS is what some people see as the issue and dismisses the actual concerns that people have with regards to bringing elves into the game.

1st, absolutely no one has said that we should never expand beyond the current horizons. There are several discussions going on about how and why several races won't work from a playable race standpoint, some I agree with, some I don't, but regardless there are actual discussions and reasons going on with regards to implementing a new race.

2nd, elves ARE a generic concept that exist in so many fantasy worlds, there's absolutely no reason why GW2 needs them. GW2 has, from the very beginning, denied including too many generic fantasy races, and they've had plenty of opportunities to do so. Yes, centaurs, dwarves, and ogres exist, anthropormorphised races exist too (hylek, tengu, skritt, quaggan etc.) which is halfway to using a generic fantasy race.But there are also unique races too. While plant people aren't wholly unique, sylvari are a very unique spin on it, especially having their lore tied to that of an elder dragon. Mursaat (my absolute favourite fantasy race ever), forgotten and seers are also very unique races too.And while you cannot escape some tropes, you can certainly play with them to create a unique experience in interacting with them. The skritt are a fantastic example of this, rat races exist, but the idea that skritt get smarter in larger groups is something I haven't seen really explored (and in fact, the skaven from warhammer kind of go in the opposite direction, creating absolute madness, schemes and self destruction in larger groups of that rat-people).So on the account of the GW2 devs trying to stay away from generic races, they're doing a fairly good job and as such have no need of introducing elves.

3rd, while there's absolutely nothing lore-wise stating that elves can't exist on another part of the world (or on some other planet in the mists), the previous point highlights why that's very unlikely to be the case. It's not a case of people being 'unwilling to explore new horizons', it's a case of everyone seeing a generic race for it's genericness and not wanting any more genericness to come into GW2.And this is coming from someone who enjoys elves. They're not my favourite fantasy race, but I enjoy their existence in the multitude of worlds I've seen them on. They're great. It's not impossible that they could make a debut in the future, but there's no place for them in GW2. As many people have pointed out, the traditional tropes associated with elves have already been covered by existing races, and the devs took extreme measures to do away with the traditional inception of another fantasy race, the dwarves. They're all stone now, and there's only 2 confirmed living dwarves in the world. That's how much they want to separate the more traditional races from other fantasy worlds (though admittedly this has not been extended to ogres and centaurs, however big or small a role those races have played within the story).

4th, regarding specifically the dwarves, the deldrimor dwarves forced all of the stone summit dwarves to turn to stone and forced everyone to go underground to fight primordus. Very few races have been introduced as having traveled to different continents from what I recall, so while it's not impossible that dwarves may exist on another part of the world, it's very unlikely just from a logistical point of view. We see evidence of dwarves in the northern parts of Elona, but it's all abandoned ruins or random dwarven caches strewn about the desert. Certainly at this point in time, the devs seem to point out to the fact that we're not going to get an unseen settlement of dwarves, since even down in elona, the dwarves took up arms to fight against primordus.

5th, I'd rather the devs create a new race than implement a generic one that exists in other fantasy worlds. With the mursaat, seers, forgotten, wardens, and yes, even largos, ArenaNet have shown their capability of creating entirely new races that don't really exist elsewhere, at least in visual aesthetics if not in their culture. (and yes, as a huge fan of the largos, even I cannot deny the heavy drow influences upon their culture).

If we're really going to have a discussion regarding 'exploring beyond what we know', I want new races, I want new aesthetics, I want something totally different, something we've never seen before. Elves do not fit the description of 'exploring beyond what we know', because we know elves. We've seen them in a thousand fantasy worlds. If you really want to go beyond the horizon and explore, let's find something that's NOT an already existing generic race that's seen in another fantasy world.

So don't be disingenuous with regards to the discussions happening over all the reasons why not to include elves.

[castlemanic.3198]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

to me charr is the most plainest and boring fantasy race, even a human has more sense then the charr.....then again, you must really lack imagination to call elfs boring, most used yes but boring is the last thing they are.

Elves are massively overexposed and ultrageneric fantasy tropes. At least Charr is unique. Horned anthromorphic felines with 4 ears.And in regards to blood elves, come BFA, they will now be able to get golden eyes due to the cleansing of the sunwell. Such a delightful sticking it to the helf crowd on ally side. They got the thallasian elf model in void elves with fantastic racials.

It only makes sense that allys -never- gets helves. it would take away from the whole plotline of the helves leaving the alliance in disgust to become blood elves. The once high elves have become horde now, even if it so gravely upsets those whom cant look past the tolkienish trinity of humans, high elves and dwarves with knights, kings and castles.

I agree with basically everything, but you're factually wrong about high elves in WoW. High elves loyal to the alliance do exist. Vareesa windrunner leads the Silver Covenant, which has allied itself with the alliance and continues to do so. There was an entire sequence where the nightborne acknowledged the high elves as separate from the blood elves. In Legion, the most recent expansion. High elves have continued to exist as a force for the alliance, from the introduction in WoW in Wrath, in cataclysm they didn't make much of a show but helped fight off the zandalari in Zul'Aman alongside the blood elves and the darkspear trolls, but the high elves were the primary counter force to the blood elf sunreavers in mists of pandaria when throne of thunder dropped, they were kind of no shows on draenor, and then, as I said, they appear in legion next to the night elves and blood elves when facing off against the nightborne.

Alliance loyal high elves do factually exist, likely in greater numbers than void elves exist. It's really only because blood elves exist that the devs haven't made playable high elves, despite those high elves existing in lore. While I absolutely agree that the high elves existing at all greatly reduces the impact of the blood elves leaving the alliance, they factually exist in canon, in lore, and the WoW devs continue to highlight the existence of high elves, especially through vareesa windrunner and the silver covenant.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

Serious Elf Opinions

[melodyca.8921]

@Mortymes.7139 said:So Ion said we wouldn't get HIgh Elves in WoW, so how about High Elves introduced in Guild Wars? Most games have elves in their fantasy, but GW has no elves at all.

Oh God! This gets a massive resounding no from me. Elves are over done and the majority of the elf fandoms are obnoxious. I am burnt out on elves thanks to the fandoms of WOW and Dragon Age.

[LucianDK.8615]

I am aware of the silver covenant, whom keeps getting dragging up. But they are only a minority too.Plus the fact that the void elves has been teaching their dark ways to any interested blood or high elf to return to the alliance in an official capacity. So no, helves will never return, and nor should they. Theyve been written out with the appearance of blood elves. Be happy you got suitably different elves in voids.

[castlemanic.3198]

@LucianDK.8615 said:I am aware of the silver covenant, whom keeps getting dragging up. But they are only a minority too.Plus the fact that the void elves has been teaching their dark ways to any interested blood or high elf to return to the alliance in an official capacity. So no, helves will never return, and nor should they. Theyve been written out with the appearance of blood elves. Be happy you got suitably different elves in voids.

If you're aware of the silver covenant, you shouldn't so brazenly say they don't exist when they factually do. They exist, deal with it.I've also specifically said that I agree with you, that I also agree the existence of high elves reduces the impact of the blood elves becoming horde, and at no point mentioned that high elves should become a playable race. So I'm not sure where the 'be happy' comment comes from.

EDIT: I could go on and on with this back and forth, but this is a GW2 forum so I'll stop this WoW specific debate right here and decline to comment further.

[LucianDK.8615]

minority elves remains minority elves. Thats what many doesnt seem to grasp.

[sorudo.9054]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

to me charr is the most plainest and boring fantasy race, even a human has more sense then the charr.....then again, you must really lack imagination to call elfs boring, most used yes but boring is the last thing they are.

Elves are massively overexposed and ultrageneric fantasy tropes. At least Charr is unique. Horned anthromorphic felines with 4 ears.And in regards to blood elves, come BFA, they will now be able to get golden eyes due to the cleansing of the sunwell. Such a delightful sticking it to the helf crowd on ally side. They got the thallasian elf model in void elves with fantastic racials.

It only makes sense that allys -never- gets helves. it would take away from the whole plotline of the helves leaving the alliance in disgust to become blood elves. The once high elves have become horde now, even if it so gravely upsets those whom cant look past the tolkienish trinity of humans, high elves and dwarves with knights, kings and castles.

so your argument is based on WoW, a game that makes elves look boring.what about an elf that has suffered underground for millenia and used as slaves for so long they know nothing of free will, just to make up one.i never said elves should be in GW2 but to just lick it away simply because you know nothing better is a really lame reason.

[LucianDK.8615]

Again, elves are overused tropes. Look at the moles, far better and more unique take. Instead of reusing old cliche creatures.

[castlemanic.3198]

@"sorudo.9054" said:what about an elf that has suffered underground for millenia and used as slaves for so long they know nothing of free will, just to make up one.i never said elves should be in GW2 but to just lick it away simply because you know nothing better is a really lame reason.

FYI, that's the story of the dredge. That's essentially what happened to the dredge. Except the dredge gained their freedom after the dwarves went to fight primordus. But the dredge were underground slaves used by the stone summit.

"In the past the mole-like race called the dredge were a pitiable race, enslaved by the Stone Summit dwarves and ready to fight alongside any who would help free them from their masters' whips. After the Transformation of the Dwarves, the dredge gained their freedom once and for all, and established themselves as the heirs to the dwarven kingdom in the Shiverpeak Mountains, where they battle the displaced norn for control of dwarven territory. They have made their capital in Sorrow's Embrace, formerly the main mine of the Stone Summit dwarves."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dredge

But even if the dredge didn't exist, I'd like to ask you this: Why does it have to be elves and not an entirely new and unique race?

[derd.6413]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Such obsession with elves, one of the most plainest and boring fantasy races after humans. Get more imaginative for something truly creative to play as.

to me charr is the most plainest and boring fantasy race, even a human has more sense then the charr.....then again, you must really lack imagination to call elfs boring, most used yes but boring is the last thing they are.

Elves are massively overexposed and ultrageneric fantasy tropes. At least Charr is unique. Horned anthromorphic felines with 4 ears.And in regards to blood elves, come BFA, they will now be able to get golden eyes due to the cleansing of the sunwell. Such a delightful sticking it to the helf crowd on ally side. They got the thallasian elf model in void elves with fantastic racials.

It only makes sense that allys -never- gets helves. it would take away from the whole plotline of the helves leaving the alliance in disgust to become blood elves. The once high elves have become horde now, even if it so gravely upsets those whom cant look past the tolkienish trinity of humans, high elves and dwarves with knights, kings and castles.

so your argument is based on WoW, a game that makes elves look boring.what about an elf that has suffered underground for millenia and used as slaves for so long they know nothing of free will, just to make up one.i never said elves should be in GW2 but to just lick it away simply because you know nothing better is a really lame reason.

i'm pretty sure this thread was about high elves specifically, but even then if you're gonna make a completely new type of elf why not just make a new species al together (besides giving the designers and modelers an easier time because they can just use a modified human model)

[Ashen.2907]

For those suggesting a twist on the traditional elf trope in order to avoid being generic same old same old versions....we have that. Sylvari are designed to be an altered take on the traditional rpg elf, made specifically to fit into gw2 lore. You arent asking for the addition of elves, you are asking for the addition of another race of elves. If Anet were to comply with your request, implemented in a manner to fit into gw2 lore without being a complete Tolkien knock off, you would probably then request yet another race of elves, and then another, and so on, until the game was flooded with elf variants.

[LucianDK.8615]

Yes, sylvari is a brilliant and creative take on an elflike race, instead of one that is just human+

[melodyca.8921]

@Ashen.2907 said:For those suggesting a twist on the traditional elf trope in order to avoid being generic same old same old versions....we have that. Sylvari are designed to be an altered take on the traditional rpg elf, made specifically to fit into gw2 lore. You arent asking for the addition of elves, you are asking for the addition of another race of elves. If Anet were to comply with your request, implemented in a manner to fit into gw2 lore without being a complete Tolkien knock off, you would probably then request yet another race of elves, and then another, and so on, until the game was flooded with elf variants.

Thankfully that will never happen. This game does NOT need any sort of elves. One of the things I respect the most about Guild Wars 2 is that its not like other games and does not need to be like other game. When all is said and done, its the developers vision and if people are not happy they should move on.

[sorudo.9054]

i find sylvari to be the odd ball that is nothing in particular, not unique but nothing interesting ether.they look like natural imps or dryads, but not interesting enough to even mention.

[ReV.6097]

A simple head piece which is just elf ears, would do. A new race isn't gonna happen and is pointless at this stage.

Or if you're asking for WoW sort of ears, I'd say that's a bit much. They are too long.Maybe the glowing eyes combined with small elf ears, would be cool.

[Omega.6801]

Elf-ear skin for next wintersday and all is well. --> HoHoHo

[derd.6413]

@"lokh.2695" said:Elf-ear skin for next wintersday and all is well. --> HoHoHo

i actually see this happening