MM Rank should be per profession not account wide

[phs.6089]

Seriously Anet. What makes you believe a good/perfect necro (not hate to necros, add any othet class) would have same skills as ele or any other class for instance.

We keep getting people on new for them professions in ranked, literally ( I won't say it's cus they farming legendary back pice https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension, we know you Anet made that ridiculous achievements) ruining matches as they have no idea what to do with the class.

Please consider changing something, keep pvp going.

[Alatar.7364]

Are we talking MMR or PvP Rank? Because in case of PvP Rank this would be pretty irrelevant as it doesn't affect anything.

[phs.6089]

@Alatar.7364 said:Are we talking MMR or PvP Rank? Because in case of PvP Rank this would be pretty irrelevant as it doesn't affect anything.

MM Rank

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Terrible idea. There are an incredible amount of no-profession tied skills and mechanics (player rotation, gameplay, map awareness, class mechanics and soooo on)

Good players can pick up a new build / professions really fast. New players will need hundreds of hours.

They should simply remove the class achievement requirement for Ascension (read: only keep one), if this really is a problem.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@"phs.6089" said:Seriously Anet. What makes you believe a good/perfect necro (not hate to necros, add any othet class) would have same skills as ele or any other class for instance.

We keep getting people on new for them professions in ranked, literally ( I won't say it's cus they farming legendary back pice https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension, we know you Anet made that ridiculous achievements) ruining matches as they have no idea what to do with the class.

Please consider changing something, keep pvp going.

There is one major issue with implementing profession-ranked MM - Class swapping.If MM ratings were based on class then many people would queue with their weakest character and swap to their strongest when entering the arena.Personally I am all for class swapping and as far as I can see, there is no indication devs will change this any time soon.As long as this mechanic is in place, profession-rated MM could be easily exploited...With regards to the back item, the quest requires only 3 professions to be used. I doesn't seem too demanding for a player to learn how to play just 2 classes other than their main..Maybe the system should require people to finish/win 20-30 matches with a class in unranked before being able to use that class in ranked.

[phs.6089]

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

Maybe the system should require people to finish/win 20-30 matches with a class in unranked before being able to use that class in ranked.

Good idea, I wasn't aware char swapping is exploitable like that. I believe you all have meet such players, that are on alts, they know the map, mech but have no idea of the class

[Kostis.1826]

Excellent idea. One of the main reasons for so many imbalanced matches is people playing their 2nd 3rd class in which they are obviously below their rank. Changing this would improve match quality and consistency.

[Sigmoid.7082]

Community voted against it.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

You forgot to add that it makes no sense... I wonder if there's any single competitive game out there that does anything remotely similar to this.Last time Arena Net ceded to popular opinion sPvP was pretty much killed, and we've been seeing it agonizing ever since.

If anything this game needs a proper class select with draft pick and ban phases so the players can at least curb the awful balance by banning OP classes or at least counter-picking the enemy's choices.This would probably be the best counter-measure against the slow and ineffective balance patches, not profession-based MMR.

I mean ever heard of smurfs? Experience and tactics overall have a larger impact on performance than profession mechanics. A really good player will be a really good player in a mesmer or an elementalist.

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:Terrible idea. There are an incredible amount of no-profession tied skills and mechanics (player rotation, gameplay, map awareness, class mechanics and soooo on)

Good players can pick up a new build / professions really fast. New players will need hundreds of hours.

They should simply remove the class achievement requirement for Ascension (read: only keep one), if this really is a problem.

Exactly... And honestly... If a guy can't do the achievement because of profession achievements (you only need 3 at most iirc, don't tell me there aren't 3 viable professions), then maybe that player has been placed above his MMR anyway.

[Legatus.3608]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

I'm curious as to why this can't be done without removing class swapping? It seems to me that if I queue as a thief, my MMR is correctly 1600ish or whatever it's at on my thief, then I see two other thieves and switch to mesmer, my MMR correctly adjusts to the mesmer rating (which, despite mesmer being OP I'm pretty shit at mesmer so it would drop). When the match is done, the value added or removed from my point total is correctly based on the fact that I played as a mesmer. I don't see where the problem is with this?

If I were to try to manipulate the system under these rules, I would queue as a mesmer to tank my MMR to get on a better team, then switch to thief - so theoretically I'd win with a better team, but you would also gain less points and lose more due to your MMR being higher. If the amount of points isn't being adjusted accordingly, that's a problem with the MMR system itself (and would currently already exist as a problem, which again I've already seen complaints about this) not with the queue system. I don't really see the issue.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

1 thing at a time ey...

Wasn't going to vote yes to class specific MMR until the first poll was finalized, which was the trial of Duo queue... (unless I missed the repoll to bring 5 man queues back)

[Durzlla.6295]

I would love profession based MMR so I can play in ranked as an ele or engi without making my team want to kill themselves watching me try to 1v1 or team fight.

[Ziooo.8932]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

Can we at least see it? Im interested =DI mean, would be cool to have a profession based leaderboard... im also fine with class locking tbh, since i suck at everything xD

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

I'm curious as to why this can't be done without removing class swapping? It seems to me that if I queue as a thief, my MMR is correctly 1600ish or whatever it's at on my thief, then I see two other thieves and switch to mesmer, my MMR correctly adjusts to the mesmer rating (which, despite mesmer being OP I'm pretty kitten at mesmer so it would drop). When the match is done, the value added or removed from my point total is correctly based on the fact that I played as a mesmer. I don't see where the problem is with this?

If I were to try to manipulate the system under these rules, I would queue as a mesmer to tank my MMR to get on a better team, then switch to thief - so theoretically I'd win with a better team, but you would also gain less points and lose more due to your MMR being higher. If the amount of points isn't being adjusted accordingly, that's a problem with the MMR system itself (and would currently already exist as a problem, which again I've already seen complaints about this) not with the queue system. I don't really see the issue.

I don't think you understand how this works...IF that system was in place, if you queue with your mesmer at, lets say you're really bad, 1000 MMR. You'll be paired with and against people with ~1000 MMR as well. Then you switch to your 1600 MMR thief. The other players will still be 1000 MMR. Which means now you'd be farming them.

Also i think by now you should have realized how this is meaningless, and your skill as a player will always have a heavier weight than your class's MMR. So you'll basically be smurfing on every class that isn't your main.

@Durzlla.6295 said:I would love profession based MMR so I can play in ranked as an ele or engi without making my team want to kill themselves watching me try to 1v1 or team fight.If only there were other game modes for you to practice in...

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Super alternative:

Put up leaderboards in this new forum, just like the old forum's leaderboards, but they are individual class leaderboards. So we'd have 9 links worth of leaderboards to browse, one for each class, to view who is ultimately the best on each class. That would actually be pretty awesome in terms of being able to head hunt for new teammates. It would probably encourage more gameplay as well due to players wanting to attempt to top all leaderboards.

But keep ranked working exactly the way that it does now. There ya go.

[Arkantos.7460]

yea what... all OP classes had good mmr and the rest gos trash mmr... gg if your implenting that

[shadowpass.4236]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

Is there any way to see our mmr on certain classes? I think this would be really interesting to look at

[Legatus.3608]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

I'm curious as to why this can't be done without removing class swapping? It seems to me that if I queue as a thief, my MMR is correctly 1600ish or whatever it's at on my thief, then I see two other thieves and switch to mesmer, my MMR correctly adjusts to the mesmer rating (which, despite mesmer being OP I'm pretty kitten at mesmer so it would drop). When the match is done, the value added or removed from my point total is correctly based on the fact that I played as a mesmer. I don't see where the problem is with this?

If I were to try to manipulate the system under these rules, I would queue as a mesmer to tank my MMR to get on a better team, then switch to thief - so theoretically I'd win with a better team, but you would also gain less points and lose more due to your MMR being higher. If the amount of points isn't being adjusted accordingly, that's a problem with the MMR system itself (and would currently already exist as a problem, which again I've already seen complaints about this) not with the queue system. I don't really see the issue.

I don't think you understand how this works...IF that system was in place, if you queue with your mesmer at, lets say you're really bad, 1000 MMR. You'll be paired with and against people with ~1000 MMR as well. Then you switch to your 1600 MMR thief. The other players will still be 1000 MMR. Which means now you'd be farming them.

Also i think by now you should have realized how this is meaningless, and your skill as a player will always have a heavier weight than your class's MMR. So you'll basically be smurfing on every class that isn't your main.

Isn't that what already happens? People Smurf on their alt accounts and farm bronzes?

And when you're done farming those people after changing to your good class your mmr goes up WAY LESS because you outrank them by 600?

I still don't see the problem aside from bad match making which already occurs because of alts and win trading

[BeLZedaR.4790]

It would require giving up pre-match swapping which brings multi-classers an advantage for more game knowledge. I think it should stay.

It also doesn’t make too much sense especially on classes with vastly different builds (let’s say fb and core guard).At this point you also want mmr per build, which is obviously ridiculous.Just general mmr is the best. if you really care about learning a new class your steps should be: - practise it a day or a few days in unranked.

• Push yourself there to the hardest mechanical situations you can even if it means to throw (push 1v2s etc. ) to learn to use your class correctly
• but also take a few games to practise rotations with it and understand your role.
• Queue ranked with it realizing you’re probably gonna drop a bit, untill you manage to get back to your old rating.
• at which point you know the class enough to play at your rating.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:You forgot to add that it makes no sense... I wonder if there's any single competitive game out there that does anything remotely similar to this.

A previous MMO I played ranked each character separately. Granted there were many differences with the system in general, but each toon had it's own placement in rankings so you could potentially have several in the top 100/250 on the same account (if you were good enough). There was no character/class swapping permitted so the system made sense (also gear was a major factor in pvp arena and around the time I left the game they introduced a new "gear rating system" which contributed to how you were matched).

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

I'm curious as to why this can't be done without removing class swapping?If I were to try to manipulate the system under these rules, I would queue as a mesmer to tank my MMR to get on a better team, then switch to thief .

There's your answer. Once you are matched with the other 9 players, their MMR is locked in. If you change to a "higher MMR" character, you're throwing the teams out of balance since the system cannot adjust your opponents MMR or provide you with a tougher enemy. This would consistently be exploited since people can use a low MMR character to queue and switch to their main in the 60 seconds pre-match. Their "queuing alt" would never complete any matches so therefore would not increase it's MMR and they can continue to fight against lower tier people.

[Namless.4028]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

would be intresting how the top 250 for every class would look like

[ReaverKane.7598]

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:You forgot to add that it makes no sense... I wonder if there's any single competitive game out there that does anything remotely similar to this.

A previous MMO I played ranked each character separately. Granted there were many differences with the system in general, but each toon had it's own placement in rankings so you could potentially have several in the top 100/250 on the same account (if you were good enough). There was no character/class swapping permitted so the system made sense (also gear was a major factor in pvp arena and around the time I left the game they introduced a new "gear rating system" which contributed to how you were matched).

The only MMO i know that ever had a competitive scene was Guild Wars 2. And that's down the toilet because instead of keeping it up they listened to people that don't know the difference between "pvp" and "competitive pvp".And i know the game you talk about (last sentence kinda revealed that), and that game's pvp is kind of cookie cutter, and was never built as a competitive thing.Like you said the way the game handles characters, classes and everything else is vastly different from GW2, starting with the fact that your gear is a major factor to it.The only thing i'd take away from BDO would be the Sailing, the desert features (BDO's desert is awesome compared to Elona) and the guild system (which is much more robust than GW2's).

[omgdracula.6345]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

I mean honestly class swapping being eliminated would improve pvp a decent amount. If you could expand on if you agree with the community or not would be great. Or if anyone who voted to keep it could detail out why. It seems silly to allow a team to completely swing favor based on being able to stack classes.

[Legatus.3608]

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:You forgot to add that it makes no sense... I wonder if there's any single competitive game out there that does anything remotely similar to this.

A previous MMO I played ranked each character separately. Granted there were many differences with the system in general, but each toon had it's own placement in rankings so you could potentially have several in the top 100/250 on the same account (if you were good enough). There was no character/class swapping permitted so the system made sense (also gear was a major factor in pvp arena and around the time I left the game they introduced a new "gear rating system" which contributed to how you were matched).

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:As others have noted, we can't do this without removing pre-match class swapping, which the community voted to keep. It would be too easy to manipulate. We do track profession MMR in case we decide to change things later.

I'm curious as to why this can't be done without removing class swapping?If I were to try to manipulate the system under these rules, I would queue as a mesmer to tank my MMR to get on a better team, then switch to thief .

There's your answer. Once you are matched with the other 9 players, their MMR is locked in. If you change to a "higher MMR" character, you're throwing the teams out of balance since the system cannot adjust your opponents MMR or provide you with a tougher enemy. This would consistently be exploited since people can use a low MMR character to queue and switch to their main in the 60 seconds pre-match. Their "queuing alt" would never complete any matches so therefore would not increase it's MMR and they can continue to fight against lower tier people.

And again, your MMR gain for winning would be proportionately lower. This is a mental problem and not a real one.

Furthermore, you can already do this with alt accounts. You want to know why the match making system is trash right now? It's because people can tank their alt accounts and then use their alts to help boost their buddies' MMR. This whole win trading thing is a not quite a lie, but it's not quite true to say that win trading is the cause of all the trash match making either.