Gw1 Why it is genius and gw2 just meh.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@"Laila Lightness.8742" said:Solution let player build their own class

They already are......... its called "The Meta". You ask players do design something, and they'll design something thats overly effective with minimal drawbacks..... and then they'll get bored with it, because it offers no catharsis.

No i mean no classes all traits for all change able at will

[starlinvf.1358]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution let player build their own class

They already are......... its called "The Meta". You ask players do design something, and they'll design something thats overly effective with minimal drawbacks..... and then they'll get bored with it, because it offers no catharsis.

No i mean no classes all traits for all change able at will

And all that will happen is someone will find the primary and secondary optimal choices, and everyone will just copy it. I don't know what it is about GW1 and Selective memory about its PvP, because its everything we have now when it comes to Flavor of the month builds based on which skills were buffed/nerfed in the last patch. Or are my memories of Bunny Thumper and Touch rangers fabricated as part of some conspiracy to sully the greatness of the diverseness of its PvP/GvG mode?

[Doomfrost.5728]

Guild Wars excelled at build freedom and class diversity with how you could mix and max professions. Otherwise Guild Wars 2 is actually more preferable to me than to Guild Wars 1 with how much content and game mechanics it has.

[Deaths.9165]

It was ur choice to follow the flavor of the Month. I had alot successful build, wich were not included in the flavor of the Month. With the observer mode it was then hard to keep ur secret builds as a secret. But still their was a lot of room. In gw2 u have just choces of th weapons wich bring the skills. You cant combine the skills u cant combine the professions. And if we think with gw2 mechanicks u cant even combine professions. And u cant combine profession based weapons.

YOU can compare bouth games cause the base mechanics in bouth are the same. The only major diffrence is that one has an open world and the other dont. From playstyle bouth are same with the diffrence that gw2 is more causual.The builds are looked behind elite specs and weapons. Same goes for PvP. In GW2 their are just 3 pvp game modes which are even not linked to each other. Look at Hoh. Alot of game mechanics wich are linked with each other. Look at gvg u were never aware which build u would face. Even if u run a meta build their could be someone who is running an anti meta build. Their is still no GvG in gw2. Their is something gvg like but ho ho ho.

The good part of gw1 was u could be causual following flavor of the Month or u could go out ur own way. In gw2 everything is limited, looked behind walls. Even the microtransaction is a wall. In gw1 u had to farm the ingridents for the skinns. Now u can farm everything for gold and buy that desired skin gemstore. Yeah their are a few skins who are prestige worth and u cant buy them in the gemstore. Still thats limited as well. Even the farming is limited. Every map has is own currency so they can just adjust the map for the mapcurrency instead of adjusting the entire gw2 game.

U cant be pro in GW2. And if u are a pro in gw2 it doesnt feel like u are a pro.

[Doomfrost.5728]

The play style of Guild Wars 2 is not the same as Guild Wars 1. Free range of movement, actually 3D and not just 3D in looks (remember GW1 and it's missing Z-axis?), character stats are highly more modifiable than in Guild Wars 1 through the equipment and rune system (crit damage, chance, condi duration, condi damage, boon duration, healing effectiveness etc), and the combat system feels more fluidic offering different terrain types, obstacles, area modifiers, land and water combat, etc...

Yes while Guild Wars 1 will, in theory, allow you the freedom of any build whether it be solo or team at your disposal, the game mechanics associated are getting more antiquated as time goes on.

Maybe one day we will see some profession crossover into others, just not in the way people will think. The new trait lines have already proven that they can allow professions to use different martial weapons. Maybe somewhere down the line they'll allow primary professions to take a limited secondary one.

[sorudo.9054]

GW1 has better build diversity, GW2 has weapon skills organized on weapons.if they combined both in the right way GW2 would be more GW and less WoW.

[Deaths.9165]

@Doomfrost.5728 said:The play style of Guild Wars 2 is not the same as Guild Wars 1. Free range of movement, actually 3D and not just 3D in looks (remember GW1 and it's missing Z-axis?), character stats are highly more modifiable than in Guild Wars 1 through the equipment and rune system (crit damage, chance, condi duration, condi damage, boon duration, healing effectiveness etc), and the combat system feels more fluidic offering different terrain types, obstacles, area modifiers, land and water combat, etc...

Yes while Guild Wars 1 will, in theory, allow you the freedom of any build whether it be solo or team at your disposal, the game mechanics associated are getting more antiquated as time goes on.

Maybe one day we will see some profession crossover into others, just not in the way people will think. The new trait lines have already proven that they can allow professions to use different martial weapons. Maybe somewhere down the line they'll allow primary professions to take a limited secondary one.

I am talking about the base mechanics. It is true that the combat system in gw2 is advanced compared to gw1. They could have just hoped the freedome of gw1 with the advanced combat system of gw2 and this game would be awesome. But it is easier to balance a skill set instead of the combinat of alot of skills. And for the quipmnet it is looked behind stat combinations. U cant choose them freely. Even when the raits where changed . They looked the stats u could choose into the armore instead 2 diffrent systems. Oh i am happy that the traits where changed but they could do better.

[Doomfrost.5728]

Base mechanics being what?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Interesting. Well . . . I don't argue with success. And no one can seriously say Guild Wars 2 isn't more successful than Guild Wars 1.

[Imba.9451]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Interesting. Well . . . I don't argue with success. And no one can seriously say Guild Wars 2 isn't more successful than Guild Wars 1.

Different times. Different marketing. Different budget. Different audience.

• Back then, gaming wasn't that far spread as it is today.
• Back then, Guild Wars 1 wasn't marketed as heavy as GW2, because...
• Back then ArenaNet was a smaller company, wich had less budget at their disposal.
• Guild Wars 1 never wanted to be a classic MMO. And thats what I liked alot. It felt different, and trying out a bazillion different builds was fun - to me at least. Guild Wars 2 is a MMORPG. Sure, it has some tweaks here, some differences there, but it comes down to be a MMORPG, wich attracts a different audience than the Co-Op oriented GW1 did.

So yeah, comparing the two games is kinda nonsensical. Yet, from my own point of view, and despite enjoying GW2 as well, I can say that I prefer GW1.

Oh, and GW1 existed in a time when microtransactions haven't been implemented in every freakin' game. The gem shop is a huge reason for GW2's sucess.

[Deaths.9165]

@Doomfrost.5728 said:Base mechanics being what?

Card gaming. U have a set of cards and can choose ur strategie based on ur cards and anticipitating the strategie of ur oponent. Gw1 had alot of cards with less rules in combing the cards. And gw2 has just a few cards with alot of restrictions. And the card gaming idea is not from me it is a well known thing in gw1.The flavor of the Month was that u had ur choosen cards and have good chances to win with them. ANd their were Pros who know every card and could combine freely. ANd if thouse pros opened a guild everyone wanted to join that guild cause they wanted to learn the combinations ( i know its extravagating now) And what can a guild offer in gw2 beside friendship and a guildhall. Nearly noting. A beginner player gets the drill and after he learned the mechanics he does not need the guild anymore. Or do u know any guild in gw2 thats shining bright like it was in gw1?

And alot of cards (skins) where moved to microtransaction as well.

This said. GW2 is still the most pro gamer MMO on the market atm.

Think about it u have a set of core cards. a set of hot cards and a set of Pof cards. And u are forbidden to combine hot and pof. lol

[Imba.9451]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

And yet that's what this thread and you are now doing. This also completely nullifies your lists of counterpoints, so thank you. Again, I don't argue with success. And no amount of spin can change the fact that Guild Wars 2 is more than successful in the MMO market.

You don't argue in the first place. You state the obvious. And I refute the implication of financial sucess = quality. After that, I state my opinion, and declare it as such. Simple, eh?

[ReaverKane.7598]

Well...GW2 is a MMORPG.GW1 is a RPG with a better lobby.

GW2 was made to improve upon the WoW forumla.GW1 was made to improve upon the Diablo 2 formula.

Different games, mostly different genres.

I own GW1, but haven't finished the first campaign, and have logged thousands of hours in GW2. I would play more GW1 if it was a MMORPG, but its a lonely game if you don't have a fixed group of friends to play with.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Deaths.9165 said:YOU can compare bouth games cause the base mechanics in bouth are the same. The only major diffrence is that one has an open world and the other dont. From playstyle bouth are same with the diffrence that gw2 is more causual.

GW1 didn't have dodging nor jumping. GW1 was a mostly casual game that allowed everyone to complete all content by giving you access to a huge team of npcs that could beat every piece of content if built properly. Playstyle of the two games is completely different, in GW2 you rely on yourself (mostly, the exception is high end content) and every player is for himself. In GW1 you had your dedicated npc helpers that kept you alive and killed things for you while you were yawning.

[Thornwolf.9721]

The ONLY reasons guild wars 1 beats guild wars 2 is because of its ability to allow build customization, and the plot. Guild wars 2 has the worst storyline I have ever seen and its writing has been poor(Prior to PoF which even then was not that great). There is little sense of urgency and little to care about in the world of tyria in the sequel because the game equates to "Hello kitty online".

They tried so hard to grab at every demographic of gamer that they really made a game that is kind of like a "Jack of all trades". You want a moba? Play pvp in the mists. You want realm vs realm, wvw. You want pve open world content well we got that, we also have dungeons (Albeit crappy) and now we have raids. The game was designed to grab at so many things that it really has NOTHING unique to it at all. Even the classes have been watered down and made so that they feel relatively the same so you can just pick one up and roll with it and be half decent even if you have never touched one before. (I just picked up a messmer and I have NEVER played one prior to this whimsical moment and Im really good at it, and hell I barely knew anything about the class. It's piss easy.)

Guild wars 1 was not the case, you not only had to learn your class and figure out the build for yourself but you also had to figure out what syngerized with the skills you wanted to use. You could be a minion master necro and your minions looked cool, and felt cool and it was neat to have a mini army following you around and fighting for you which is lost on guild wars 2? The themes were darker and the storylines were pretty well polished with good character development for the villians as well the heroes you fought alongside. (Which is why shiro is kind of a fan favorite he had a crap ton of development through his campaign, and nightfall.) They also made each race feel EXTREMELY unique with the charr having cool armor that fit their appearance, the norn turned into werebeasts whenever they entered combat and were badass as hell which again is lost on guild wars 2.

You can't compare the two on gameplay because guild wars 1 is dated, guild wars 2 has better and more fluid combat and its got a crap ton of effects but those shiny graphics dont make it a better game they just make it more pleasing to the eye. In reality Guild wars 1 was closer to an rpg than its sequel at this point, this game feels more like an action based - mmo. Not an mmorpg.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Really is simple. GW2 has no content. No matter what you do, there's no goal EVER. PVE is as pointless and they come in an mmo. PVP is more limited than Tetris. Even being AFK in Spamadan was better in gw1 than being in the boring LA in gw2.

The only thing GW2 has going for it is the combat system, but even then its not as great as it could've been because the build variety is non existent.

[Ardid.7203]

What's the point? These are the Gw2 forums, most people here changed from GW1 to GW2 a some point, while others have never played GW1. Some even don't ever want to play GW1 again (me). GW1 is also stopped development, AFAIK.I personally don't want GW2 to be more like GW1. And people who loves GW1 can still play it.

I really don't see the point. I just hope GW1 simply stop appearing all the time like an old uncle who was really cool in the 60 and now still tries to be cool and fails. So annoying.

[Imba.9451]

@Ardid.7203 said:

I really don't see the point. I just hope GW1 simply stop appearing all the time like an old uncle who was really cool in the 60 and now still tries to be cool and fails. So annoying.

GW1 left an impression on some people. And those people, even while realizing that it's fruitless, hope to enjoy the gameplay of GW1 with new content at some point. Like I said, unrealistic, but you can play a game only so long until you have seen everything. But when the gameplay was enjoyed, people demand more. The entire Souls franchise is based on that. And there is nothing wrong with it.Just for clarification AGAIN, before someone dismisses those words because they feel like I oppose them: I enjoy both games, even when I prefer GW1's system. And it simply is sad to let something you enjoyed go. I can fully understand that, and assume this to be the reason for this topic to pop up again and again. It only shows the impression GW1 left, the sucess it had and the foundation it layed for GW2.

Long story short: One can like apples AND oranges. One can prefer one of them without hating the other. And Tasting oranges after enjoying apples doesn't make the need for the taste of apples go away.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Imba.9451 Is there something about me agreeing with you that you didn't understand? Once more, I don't argue with success financial or otherwise. And no, I never equated quality in any way, shape, or form. You are. And yes, comparing the two games is nonsense. Again, your words. At this point, you're more or less fighting with your own points and counterpoints.

That doesn't strike you as a wee bit strange?

[Imba.9451]

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Interesting. Well . . . I don't argue with success. And no one can seriously say Guild Wars 2 isn't more successful than Guild Wars 1.

Thats was oyur initial post. In a thread, that debated wich game was "better". So, intentional or nor, your words implied that Guild Wars 2 was the better game, for it was more sucessful.Your words, not mine. Maybe adapt to a more precise use of language.

And thats what I argued against, by stating that comparing one games sucess to another one from a different times is meaningless. That it's menaingless to compare financial sucess when those 2 games have totally different monetization practices.You can rate "financial success" in Dollar, but sucess in itself is harder to rate, for it needs to be put in perspective - wich you didn't. And even then, sucess doesn't mean quality.

So yes, it strikes me a bit strange, that you twist my words, with nothing to say yourself, only to get the last word in this conversation, despite the pharsing being evident in the posts before.

Edit: But since we seem to go d'accord on everything I said, I guess there is no further need for arguing. As there wasn't in the first place, wich makes your approach against me kinda pointless :)

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Just . . .wow.

Edit: On a side note, please don't tell me to use more precise language when your posts are full of spelling and grammar errors. Not nice to throw stones in a glass house and all. :)

That said, yes, financial success does trump quality every time when we speak of MMOs or games in general. That's kind of the point of making games these days . . . to make money for the company. Games that don't tend not to stick around. Didn't think that point needed to be voiced, but sure.

A better quality game doesn't mean it's worse than a better money-making game, but it sure does help the latter stay around longer than the former.

[Xillllix.3485]

GW 1 was a focused gem.

GW 2 was pretty amazing at launch, but then became more and more unfocused and never lived up to its potential. The devs have made tons of mistakes (not making story-based dungeons, giving up on content, limiting skills to weapons, making the living story single player instances).That said, GW 2 had more potential. But because it never rewarded team play in both it's story and PvP modes it will never be as satisfying.

[Imba.9451]

Really? You edited your post frum "Just... wow." hours later to this?Yes, I make alot of spelling mistakes. But I assumed you to be intelligent enough to still get what I am aiming at. Spelling mistakes also do not equal the use of precise language. It means choosing your words carefully to get the transition from the thoughts in your brain into actual language right. A spelling mistake does not take away from that. Well not unless it's a Wall of text with lots and lots of mistakes that make reading hard.But you know that. You are smart enough to know that. You simply need to hold something against me, even if it is something petty like showing off the grammar nazi. I mean, I also don't fall back on the "english is not my native language" excuse. I am simply lazy.

Also, there are examples of games surviving years, due to their fandom. Sometimes this fandom is based on the quality of the game, sometimes... well, not. Some names simply stick around. (Ocarina of time for example. Altho thats not entirely fair, as it's part of a franchise. Maybe Shadow of the Colossus.)The problem with being financially successfull is, that it invites developers to get lazy in improving certain aspects of the game, like gameplay, Story, you name it. (By the way, I personally like GW2's storytelling much, MUCH more. While I hate humans to basically be the punchingbags in this game, the characters are qorked out better, the pacing seems fine in most instances, and even side events like the 4 groups in verdant brink struggling to reform and barricade for the night made me wanting more.)Also, financial success as a means over artistic integrity opens all gates of hell when it comes to scummy monetization schemes. Even Arenanet took it one step too far once with the implementation of lootboxes for mount skins.Sure, I wish everyone that creates an awesome game all the money they deserve. But shame on them if they drag out the name of something great only for some more sweet sweet monayz. (Not especially looking at Arenanet here, as, like I said, I enjoy both games. We do not even have to look far back, as the Metal gear series make a good example.)Fully aware that I sound edgy now, but money has the potential to corrupt. And said corruption sometimes happens even beyond the developers or publishers knowing. (Warframe is a good example of this. They pulled back a certain microtransaction after they realized that they "unintentionally created a virtually casino.)

A good name carries weight. Said weight was the foundation of GW2, aside from marketing of course. But ruining a name is easy. When deciding between an EA and a CD project red game, I know wich way my preference will lean to at first. Roughly speaking. And when it comes to GW, I still dream about a game with GW1's mechanics, but new content for the new generation. Not because I dislike GW2, but because I enjoyed GW1 so much that I simply want more. As I want more Souls. But since the specific nature of GW1's gameplay doesn't appeal to an audience as big as MMO's do, this means less potential earnings. The resulting question now is: Did Anet make a classic MMO, because they wanted it, or because they saw a bigger chance for financial success in it? The difference here lies within the integrity, with how they construct their games. And while I can't acually scold them for wanting to make money, a game/movie/book designed to maximize profit still leaves a sour taste in my mouth, even if it can be fun at the same time. It's all about the trust.

[Chasind.3128]

Gw1 was much more personal as far as character story went.When you achieved something, it felt personal.The characters were well written for the most part and I can say, I had favorites. Some things were cliche but many good things overshadowed the bad.The PvP was amazing.It had actual Guild Wars.Everyone had their own dance. No gender/ class had everyone elses dance.No real character customization but it's something.Norns are badass, you want to play one. WereBear FTW!Charr are badass, you want to play one or you learn to hate them.No mounts :(There is still outsider trading going on in GW1 to get the best of the best.Build editors/ Templates.

GW2, has no personal achievement, everyone gets a car basically. Everyone gets the shiny new thing. Everyone gets a hand out.The story is meh. Vanilla basic characters. Cliche. Everything is an eye-roll at best. Beginner Personal Story has no impact and feels pointless.You finally get the play Norn, but it's not as cool as you thought. Bad voice acting. Wearbear feels pointless.You finally get to play charr. They get shafted with everything outfit/ armor based.PvP is a jokeWvW is a jokeNo Guild WarsStill outsider trading for hard to get items, like Chak Egg.Nothing challenging.No build templates.Everyone has the same dance. Bad dances.Character customization is bad and basic but it's something.Mounts A+The combat is amazing. Character animations are amazing. Environment is amazing.Very Casual, time to move on to bigger and better things where personal growth is a thing.Some things have come too late for players like myself, but just in time for newcomers.

Been playing since head-start and this is what I've come to conclude.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Imba.9451 said: Maybe adapt to a more precise use of language.

You went there. Not me. Again, that's all on you. Please don't try to turn that around like I'm the one who brought it up. Your words. Not mine. And honestly? I have no idea where all this rage is coming from. Again . . . I agree with you. Period. And I have no idea why you want to pick a fight. But after this post? My apologies for agreeing with you., but you can be sure we will have no further interactions again.

@"Deaths.9165" said:I play since first release day gw1 and gw2. gw1 was a geniuouse game. And the video down describes it very well. GW2 is atm the most human and pro gamer MMO on the market. But it is just meh compared to gw1. Anet could have done way better.

I have all the original expansions and game, but I think that Guild Wars 2 is the better game because of the original. To me, the first games were a testing ground for basic ideas. Keep in mind, without the first game and its story, we wouldn't be here to discuss it. In short, I think the first game helped make the second one a better game due to the foundation it set as far as quality.

Either way, I think both games are fantastic, but I do have a preference for the newer one. Full disclosure? I've stuck with this game longer than any other MMO. =)