New playable race & new weapon types limitation talk

Ardid.7203 · June 15, 2018

Obviously these are two wholly different ideas/themes. I was responding to it as an alternative to a new race altogether, but no thinking about it as a "budget" alternative.

Leo G.4501 · June 15, 2018

@"Ardid.7203" said:Obviously these are two wholly different ideas/themes. I was responding to it as an alternative to a new race altogether, but no thinking about it as a "budget" alternative.

That is the context I was replying to it in. I was making a point that such an idea might require reductions to certain aspects to it to make it more widely viable (yes, in the context of it being its own idea, not linked to any other suggested aspect of this thread).

ugrakarma.9416 · June 15, 2018

@Dantert.1803 said:Do you guys think that for arenanet to focus on expanding on the already existing races would be better than having a new race?Like for example adding more content and more racial armor sets to each race and a rework and expansion of the racial skills to make them actually useful would be interesting enough?

i vote for this, and also make racial skills meaningful and useful.

Thornwolf.9721 · June 16, 2018

@Rasimir.6239 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:There's a presumption in the thread that ANet has not considered the idea of "budget races," i.e. ones that have limited access to skins, dialogue, stories, or other aspects that interest players. In fact, ANet has explicitly said they won't do it this way: if there's going to be a new race or a new profession, it will be done to their high standards, not some sort of minimalist effort that pays lip service to the concept.
Regardless of how the OP or others phrase it, a new race is an enormous amount of work. At best, we're discussing a reduction from "enormous" to "almost enormous." There's a huge list of mechanics that make up a new race and dropping a few of them won't reduce the cost enough to make up for the lost benefits. Drop too many and now we're not even looking at a new race in any sort of meaningful way.

Well, for one, Anet never indicated to what extent or quality standard. AFAIK, the way they described it was doing it "right". Even if we're to assume right means all qualities that the current races have, that isn't indicative of the quanity. So your argument against a presumption is a presumption of what Anet consided their standard of quality while making a presumption of what "budget races" means.

I'm pointing out that ANet has already considered the ideas at different levels and they have explicitly said they plan on not working on a new race or new profession any time soon. You're welcome to ignore what they said or to look for a loophole in their phrasing so you can hold on to the hope that we might see a new race before 2020.

I just want a new race before the servers get shut downWhy? What does a new race give to you that the existing ones don't?

Because Some of us don't enjoy many of the ones currently here but like the game, Personally Id main a tengu and never play any other race because it would be cool to be one. I never wanted to be a charr, or some stupid rabbit but the tengu are close to the lizardmen (Warhammer) at least in appearence. I would love to use their animations and their HoT models as my own. The only race I have a love affair with other than the tengu are the norn, Both I enjoy but frankly Id love to be something that is far from human as I find human like races boring.

ReinaSolo.5042 · June 21, 2018

So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :

Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :

1)The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.

2) Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.The pros of doing things this way : less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.The cons :Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... Shrugs Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.

3)Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.

4) And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.

Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

maddoctor.2738 · June 21, 2018

@ReinaSolo.5042 said:There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.

The problem is, the main character, the commander, is the leader of Dragon Watch and all the other members know them and respect them because they've been together through a lot. Not to mention the original Destiny's Edge members, part of the storyline contains moments of important characters getting killed and how the other characters deal with it. This means, in those original personal story quests for the new race, they'd have to meet all of Destiny's Edge AND Dragon Watch and get to know them well. Otherwise during the expansion they'd have to make new dialogue for the new race, as you meet the characters for the first time

Illconceived Was Na.9781 · June 21, 2018

@Leo G.4501 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:There's a presumption in the thread that ANet has not considered the idea of "budget races," i.e. ones that have limited access to skins, dialogue, stories, or other aspects that interest players. In fact, ANet has explicitly said they won't do it this way: if there's going to be a new race or a new profession, it will be done to their high standards, not some sort of minimalist effort that pays lip service to the concept.
Regardless of how the OP or others phrase it, a new race is an enormous amount of work. At best, we're discussing a reduction from "enormous" to "almost enormous." There's a huge list of mechanics that make up a new race and dropping a few of them won't reduce the cost enough to make up for the lost benefits. Drop too many and now we're not even looking at a new race in any sort of meaningful way.

Well, for one, Anet never indicated to what extent or quality standard. AFAIK, the way they described it was doing it "right". Even if we're to assume right means all qualities that the current races have, that isn't indicative of the quanity. So your argument against a presumption is a presumption of what Anet consided their standard of quality while making a presumption of what "budget races" means.

I'm pointing out that ANet has already considered the ideas at different levels and they have explicitly said they plan on not working on a new race or new profession any time soon. You're welcome to ignore what they said or to look for a loophole in their phrasing so you can hold on to the hope that we might see a new race before 2020.

And I don't see anything wrong with having hope for something to be added that is desired. Considering such a feature is a staple to add to an MMO in its lifespan, it's not an unprecidented desire. So why try to attack hope? It's a rather bizarre stance to take on the topic, IMO.

Misconstruing rhetoric isn't going to change the situation. The devs have said they aren't planning on adding a new race anytime soon, that's not a presumption. They haven't completely ruled it out, because they never rule anything out, not completely. They have, however, said, it doesn't fit into their plans because the cost of doing it well, by their standards (whatever they are) is at least comparable to the cost of continuing with expansions and living world in the current format. (And it adds to future maintenance costs in a number of ways.)

As I have said many times, I'd love to have the chance to play another race. But I'm not expecting it to happen this decade.

There's nothing wrong with hoping it could be otherwise, if that's what you want to do.

ReinaSolo.5042 · June 21, 2018

@maddoctor.2738 said:
@ReinaSolo.5042 said:There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.

The problem is, the main character, the commander, is the leader of Dragon Watch and all the other members know them and respect them because they've been together through a lot. Not to mention the original Destiny's Edge members, part of the storyline contains moments of important characters getting killed and how the other characters deal with it. This means, in those original personal story quests for the new race, they'd have to meet all of Destiny's Edge AND Dragon Watch and get to know them well. Otherwise during the expansion they'd have to make new dialogue for the new race, as you meet the characters for the first time

Hence why I added, later in the same paragraph ^^ :

@ReinaSolo.5042 said:The cons :Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... Shrugs Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.

But I admit this would be a bit of a challenge to pull off, yet not impossible.

Thornwolf.9721 · June 21, 2018

@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2) Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.The pros of doing things this way : less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.The cons :Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though... Shrugs Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4) And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

ReinaSolo.5042 · June 21, 2018

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

Ooooh ! Okay then ! I will have to find that video, sounds interesting ! But yeah, if they even went that far for the Tengus, I think it would be an even bigger waste of resources to not do anything with what they had already prepared. Though, I think Tengues won't really have anything to do with Joko and/or Elona, their empire being pretty big, I doubt they feel threatened... In a Canthan expansion, maybe ! Though I can't say much about that, after all, I never played GW1, because of the lack of avalaible races... I don't play a lot of humans ^^'.

derd.6413 · June 21, 2018

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

Thornwolf.9721 · June 21, 2018

@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

@derd.6413 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals.

derd.6413 · June 21, 2018

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

@derd.6413 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals.

the problem of adding a new race was never the story. it was always and still is, the amount of work to have them live up to expectations (all armor skins need to fit, they need personal story, dialog, animations, starter maps, etc. etc.) and while it's true that the tengu has the most work done, when compared to the races that are already playable, it's still like saying "between these piles of sand this one is the closest to a mansion."

DarcShriek.5829 · June 21, 2018

man I would hope that if Anet does introduce a new race that the new race is fully integrated. The partial integration would make the race a second class race and new players, that are unwary of this fact, would be upset to find out that they created a 2nd class character. The forums will become full of threads from players complaining about anet creating a 2nd class race and not warning new players and letting them find out on their own too late.

Leo G.4501 · June 21, 2018

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
@Leo G.4501 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:There's a presumption in the thread that ANet has not considered the idea of "budget races," i.e. ones that have limited access to skins, dialogue, stories, or other aspects that interest players. In fact, ANet has explicitly said they won't do it this way: if there's going to be a new race or a new profession, it will be done to their high standards, not some sort of minimalist effort that pays lip service to the concept.
Regardless of how the OP or others phrase it, a new race is an enormous amount of work. At best, we're discussing a reduction from "enormous" to "almost enormous." There's a huge list of mechanics that make up a new race and dropping a few of them won't reduce the cost enough to make up for the lost benefits. Drop too many and now we're not even looking at a new race in any sort of meaningful way.

Well, for one, Anet never indicated to what extent or quality standard. AFAIK, the way they described it was doing it "right". Even if we're to assume right means all qualities that the current races have, that isn't indicative of the quanity. So your argument against a presumption is a presumption of what Anet consided their standard of quality while making a presumption of what "budget races" means.

I'm pointing out that ANet has already considered the ideas at different levels and they have explicitly said they plan on not working on a new race or new profession any time soon. You're welcome to ignore what they said or to look for a loophole in their phrasing so you can hold on to the hope that we might see a new race before 2020.

And I don't see anything wrong with having hope for something to be added that is desired. Considering such a feature is a staple to add to an MMO in its lifespan, it's not an unprecidented desire. So why try to attack hope? It's a rather bizarre stance to take on the topic, IMO.

Misconstruing rhetoric isn't going to change the situation. The devs have said they aren't planning on adding a new race anytime soon, that's not a presumption. They haven't completely ruled it out, because they never rule anything out, not completely. They have, however, said, it doesn't fit into their plans because the cost of doing it well, by their standards (whatever they are) is at least comparable to the cost of continuing with expansions and living world in the current format. (And it adds to future maintenance costs in a number of ways.)

As I have said many times, I'd love to have the chance to play another race. But I'm not expecting it to happen this decade.

There's nothing wrong with hoping it could be otherwise, if that's what you want to do.

My problem with your response is how you misconstrue quality and quantity to try to counter what is being said. You still haven't actually addressed the points I made, just reiterate past comments by the devs.

And the only reason I commented about hope is because it was a more outlier response that I hadn't addressed. That is more of a targeted question for you than anyone else. You say you'd love a new race but you don't expect one any time soon. Congratulate! You share a common talking point of the OP and myself. It's kind of the point of the discussion. Now you could Segway to more discussion or double down on a non sequitur.

...granted, at this point, the discussion (or those that wished to discuss) have likely already said their piece and the ones who choose to argue them down have had their say. The question is, who convinced whom? The only thing I'm convinced of is posters on this forum get so defensive, they put themselves in a position to refuse discussion.

serialkicker.5274 · June 21, 2018

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:People keep coming up with ways to shoehorn new races in by making “second class races” that don’t have all the features of the current races. Considering that according to gw2efficiency the percent of players that make and play non human races trail behind the human race by a substantial amount, a race that will inevitably be seen as a budget cut race will be played even less, making the new races a loss and the money spent on it would be better spent on other features. A new race that has only a handful of armors will be a race that isn’t played much in a game where the endgame is collecting cosmetics.

Have you thought about the reason why Norns are not popular might possibly be because they are pretty much a copy of humans, just larger and usually more ridiculous looking?

Inculpatus cedo.9234 · June 21, 2018

@serialkicker.5274 said:
@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:People keep coming up with ways to shoehorn new races in by making “second class races” that don’t have all the features of the current races. Considering that according to gw2efficiency the
percent of players that make and play non human races
trail behind the human race by a substantial amount, a race that will inevitably be seen as a budget cut race will be played even less, making the new races a loss and the money spent on it would be better spent on other features. A new race that has only a handful of armors will be a race that isn’t played much in a game where the endgame is collecting cosmetics.

Have you thought about the reason why Norns are not popular might possibly be because they are pretty much a copy of humans, just larger and usually more ridiculous looking?

And the reason Asura, Charr and Sylvari are so far behind? It can't be that Asura and Charr are just copies of humans.

Just a flesh wound.3589 · June 21, 2018

@serialkicker.5274 said:
@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:People keep coming up with ways to shoehorn new races in by making “second class races” that don’t have all the features of the current races. Considering that according to gw2efficiency the
percent of players that make and play non human races
trail behind the human race by a substantial amount, a race that will inevitably be seen as a budget cut race will be played even less, making the new races a loss and the money spent on it would be better spent on other features. A new race that has only a handful of armors will be a race that isn’t played much in a game where the endgame is collecting cosmetics.

Have you thought about the reason why Norns are not popular might possibly be because they are pretty much a copy of humans, just larger and usually more ridiculous looking?

I’ve never seen complaints that female Norn are more ridiculous looking.

So Norns aren’t popular because they are a large human copy and the other races aren’t popular because they’re not a human copy. That doesn’t leave much room for a new race to be at least as popular as humans. Either they’ll look too close to humans or look too different, and not be as popular either way.

ReinaSolo.5042 · June 21, 2018

Unfortunately, people tend to play only humans, because they feel thay can relate to them more =X. Hence why, the more human-like a race is, the bigger the chances are that people are going to be willing to play it, just because of the appearance. Which tends to annoy me, I mean... There is also various lores with the other playable races, interesting stories, but most players are only interested with making a "pretty" character... Of course, I don't mean that everyone does as such. But I asked other players, and that's often the reason they give, although other are more interested in other races because of the stories and originality.

Thornwolf.9721 · June 22, 2018

@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

@derd.6413 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals.

the problem of adding a new race was never the story. it was always and still is, the amount of work to have them live up to expectations (all armor skins need to fit, they need personal story, dialog, animations, starter maps, etc. etc.) and while it's true that the tengu has the most work done, when compared to the races that are already playable, it's still like saying "between these piles of sand this one is the closest to a mansion."

No the personal story can be skipped as it means nothing at this point, make an instance the poops them out into the current expansion for example. "I was there when the commander fell, Their last words were for me to lead their guild to victory for they can no longer do so. " And there you go, you start at level 80 and just load into the new maps. You can clear the others but that's you're choice, you can't do anything before that with this character when it comes to vanilla and of course you can redo the old expansions and LW, but you wont get any specific speech or anything. Tengu can get their city, but the starting zones are moot as they will just be there with the current expansion, So no its not that much and its worth the investment as it could be a huge selling point.

DarcShriek.5829 · June 22, 2018

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

@derd.6413 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals.

the problem of adding a new race was never the story. it was always and still is, the amount of work to have them live up to expectations (all armor skins need to fit, they need personal story, dialog, animations, starter maps, etc. etc.) and while it's true that the tengu has the most work done, when compared to the races that are already playable, it's still like saying "between these piles of sand this one is the closest to a mansion."

No the personal story can be skipped as it means nothing at this point, make an instance the poops them out into the current expansion for example. "I was there when the commander fell, Their last words were for me to lead their guild to victory for they can no longer do so. " And there you go, you start at level 80 and just load into the new maps. You can clear the others but that's you're choice, you can't do anything before that with this character when it comes to vanilla and of course you can redo the old expansions and LW, but you wont get any specific speech or anything. Tengu can get their city, but the starting zones are moot as they will just be there with the current expansion, So no its not that much and its worth the investment as it could be a huge selling point.

The personal story is a major chunk of content. It's not nothing. It may be nothing to you because you've played it, but it's not nothing to new players that haven't. To rob them of the experience of playing the personal story would be wrong.

The entire argument on how to bring in a new race seems to center around the argument that second class development is ok. No, second class development is not ok. if you want crappy second rate development go play a game from EA.

Thornwolf.9721 · June 22, 2018

@DarcShriek.5829 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

@derd.6413 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...

Tengu got a huge model upgrade in HoT and were intended to be playable but the playerbase as well the Dev's did not want a bunch of Tengu rev's, So the dev's decided to hold off and add them at a later date. Tengu are Done and they even have customization shown in the Videos By That_Shaman on youtube from the days HoT was being Datamined. So The tengu are logical choices if ever they were to add a new race due to their new models, new animations and new depths that have been added to them as well their voice actor recently just finished his role as Illidan in WoW for the time being (Males had Illidans voice.) So all we need now is a female tengu to appear and be voiced and we would have a stronger case than we already do.

With all of Joko's shenanigans Id be surprised if the Tengu did not join in to help us since he has declared War on the world.

the tengu were supposed to be playable at launch (but was cut because of time constraints fairly early) but never in hot. anet didn't want them in hot because adding rev was already a huge undertaking. tengu aren't done or anet would've released them already. they don't have customization they just have some extra models added for enemies and a guild hall NPC which is what we saw in that_shaman's video..

Yes but they are fairly close, alot closer than any of the other races who are not playable. They are the most requested and yes with Joko willing to attack everywhere and Anywhere I doubt they couldn't work them into the story at the moment. Joko has an Army and we don't the living world will build him up and the expansion coming will finish him like they did with balthazar... in that expansion id be surprised if the Tengu did not get involved Joko is a huge threat even to them, mainly because he does not care who has to die as long as he can achieve is goals.

the problem of adding a new race was never the story. it was always and still is, the amount of work to have them live up to expectations (all armor skins need to fit, they need personal story, dialog, animations, starter maps, etc. etc.) and while it's true that the tengu has the most work done, when compared to the races that are already playable, it's still like saying "between these piles of sand this one is the closest to a mansion."

No the personal story can be skipped as it means nothing at this point, make an instance the poops them out into the current expansion for example. "I was there when the commander fell, Their last words were for me to lead their guild to victory for they can no longer do so. " And there you go, you start at level 80 and just load into the new maps. You can clear the others but that's you're choice, you can't do anything before that with this character when it comes to vanilla and of course you can redo the old expansions and LW, but you wont get any specific speech or anything. Tengu can get their city, but the starting zones are moot as they will just be there with the current expansion, So no its not that much and its worth the investment as it could be a huge selling point.

The personal story is a major chunk of content. It's not nothing. It may be nothing to you because you've played it, but it's not nothing to new players that haven't. To rob them of the experience of playing the personal story would be wrong.

You would essentially get it in a instanced little snipit explaining how they got into the conflict, why they are there and how they are involved in the guild tied to the story as a whole (Destiny's edge.) So to go along with that, you dont need a leveling experience with this new race as they hand people a level 80 booster for buying into the expansion, and to have the race you would have to have the expansion thus a level 80 booster for you. So make them 80 with a introduction storyline that is short but not too short and you essentially have personal story.

DarcShriek.5829 · June 22, 2018

@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@DarcShriek.5829 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@"ReinaSolo.5042" said:So, uh... Wrote this as an answer on the GW2 Reddit (adding some things on here though), hope you don't mind me also posting it here =X :
Honestly, although I prefer to be pessimistic about this (optimism only brings disappointment =X...), I would love new races. And I think there are ways to make these work. Of course, I know little to nothing about all the work the devs have to do, so, welp, just giving out ideas that seem "reasonable" (and sorry by the way if I don't express myself correctly, English is not my first language T_T ) :
1)
The race added would need to be one sharing the skeleton and animations (or most of it) with another race. We know for a fact that the Tengus have the same skeleton as Charr, and similar animations... I think ? I can't remember exactly =X. The Largos would also be pretty good candidates : I am pretty sure they have the same skeleton as humanoids such as Humans, Norns (for the females, I think ?) and Sylvari. I also remember very correctly that I was shocked at some point when I was doing the personal story, because my Norn and Sayeh did the exact same motion at the same time, you know, the animation where the right hand goes to the side of the head (probably ajusting the hair). And finally, last possible, the Kodan. When it comes to the animations, it would be pretty simple, since the two genders seem to have the sames, it also goes for the skeleton, which seem to be the same as male Norns. So, yeah, I think these would be the easier races to work on. I have seen people mentioning Quaggans, Skritts, Hyleks, Centaurs, Dwarfs... But the difference is too big in my opinion.
2)
Now that we can concentrate on a limited amount of races, let's think about how they could possibly get added to the game without having to do as much work as for the original five. There would be a pretty simple way, already done for classes (and maybe races too ?) in other video games : having the race start at a higher level. Like, 50-60, something along those lines, though I think 60 would be better. And still have personal story quests done especially for that race, and a starting map at level 60-70, along with a 70-80 one. With, of course, a main city, and all of those maps, along with a couple others, could be useful for whatever expansion would go with it.
The pros of doing things this way :
less personal story quests, and so, less dialogues unique to that race, less NPCs, and the ability to adjust the race's playable beginning with the current events. Not to mention : whole new, specific story for that race, even if for a few levels ! It would bring some freshness I think, and possibly get the attention of returning or new players.
The cons :
Thinking of the questions and quests, still having to make a main city, add dialogue for the past Living World Seasons and Expansions (...Would kinda be a paradox though...
Shrugs
Depend of the first mission, it could as well be a flashback pointing to our character being an ally of the Pact before HoT or something), although, only text may suffice for those cases, and voices for those can be added later on, though still not necessary.
3)
Now, the clothes issue. And here we see the importance of having a species with the same skeleton as an already existing one, allowing for easier adjusting of the armors and outfits ! I think the easiest one to do would be Largos, with their human-like proportions. Tengus and Kodans... Welp, Tengus, sharing the same skeleton as Charrs, would probably face the same clipping issues, unfortunately. And the Kodans do not exactly have the same morphology as Norns when it comes to the body either, needing more work, not to mention both Tengus and Kodans have very different heads. And with all the piece of armor and all the outfits avalaible in-game... Not to mention the Largos wings avalaible at the Gem store ! But then, when looking at the wiki, it is unclear if said wings are part of their anatomy or not... Anyway : cultural armor at least would be useful, along with some basic common pieces of armor, even if it means that some wouldn't be avalaible right off the bat.
4)
And of course : this would need to be added in an expansion, not as free to play content. All of the above merged is a lot of work, and would totally deserve to be paid enough ! I know I won't make friends with saying this : but I would be happier to help support the game and the team with buying such an expansion instead of the special mount skins.
Now, if you allow me, I'll take cover in case I offended anyone since it seems to be quite a sensitive topic ^^'...