Either tone down achievement rewards or raise the amount of achievements we can get

[Dante.1763]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:you know AP distribution lacks any reason behind it when you get 25 AP for kneeling before Pale Tree and 0 AP for getting God of PvP title.Blame a certain known achiever for that last one.

I absolutely do. But even if we ignore his involvment, most "special snowflake" pvp title was 10 AP only if I recall correctly.

What happened, out of curiosity?

[Linken.6345]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:you know AP distribution lacks any reason behind it when you get 25 AP for kneeling before Pale Tree and 0 AP for getting God of PvP title.Blame a certain known achiever for that last one.

I absolutely do. But even if we ignore his involvment, most "special snowflake" pvp title was 10 AP only if I recall correctly.

What happened, out of curiosity?

A user complained that said title gave out ap since they were a ap hunter and would probabely never be able to get said title, it then got removed.Said user then turned around and wanted fractal god/godess to have a even bigger ap number since it took so much resources to accuire.

[Dante.1763]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:you know AP distribution lacks any reason behind it when you get 25 AP for kneeling before Pale Tree and 0 AP for getting God of PvP title.Blame a certain known achiever for that last one.

I absolutely do. But even if we ignore his involvment, most "special snowflake" pvp title was 10 AP only if I recall correctly.

What happened, out of curiosity?

A user complained that said title gave out ap since they were a ap hunter and would probabely never be able to get said title, it then got removed.Said user then turned around and wanted fractal god/godess to have a even bigger ap number since it took so much resources to accuire.

thats idiotic.Every. Single. High end/insane number of resources/time title should give out AT LEAST 25AP in my opinion.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:you know AP distribution lacks any reason behind it when you get 25 AP for kneeling before Pale Tree and 0 AP for getting God of PvP title.Blame a certain known achiever for that last one.

I absolutely do. But even if we ignore his involvment, most "special snowflake" pvp title was 10 AP only if I recall correctly.

What happened, out of curiosity?

A user complained that said title gave out ap since they were a ap hunter and would probabely never be able to get said title, it then got removed.Said user then turned around and wanted fractal god/godess to have a even bigger ap number since it took so much resources to accuire.

thats idiotic.Every. Single. High end/insane number of resources/time title should give out AT LEAST 25AP in my opinion.

Yes, but that player is bad at pvp while his main competition on AP leaderboard actually plays pvp, so devs removed the reward for whole playerbase because of personal agenda of that player.

[Zaraki.5784]

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@Auri.1365 said:If the cap would have been 30k AP, people who already have it would then complain they lost their reason to play and that the cap should be made higher.Then anet listen and the cap goes to 40k AP, then after people have reached this, people want more...and so on till one day it reaches the 60k AP we have now.So with setting it very high you won't have this discussions for a very long time and no dev time is required to change the cap again and again.

Thing is, with the actual pace of releases, people will never reach more than 40k AP by the end of GW2. Not to mention 60k....

Its like you dont even see beyond your own reason. The reason the AP gain is so low, is because there are no REWARDS beyong 44k atm!

It's like you don't even count that titles ARE rewards!

[Zaraki.5784]

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@Perses.9683 said:Max Achievement isn’t meant to be reached

yet

and that’s okay.

I fixed your message. It's indeed the point of my topic, it's not meant to be reached now

or ever

if things continue this way. So things must change sooner or later.

You're a mad man. Why would anyone want to hit the max AP cap? It doesnt do anything then to remove alot of content for you. And if anyone were ever near the cap, I bet Anet would make it higher. Its only there to give out rewards for veteran players.

Why making content if that content is not meant to be reached by any player? That sounds like total nonsense to me. I know that having a goal to reach is nice but that goal must be reached eventually.

Not in MMOs if that goal is to finish the game. As soon as you do everything, more gets added. The goal should be to continue, not to end.

It will eventually end, like gw1, gw2 can't last forever.

[Ashen.2907]

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@Perses.9683 said:Max Achievement isn’t meant to be reached

yet

and that’s okay.

I fixed your message. It's indeed the point of my topic, it's not meant to be reached now

or ever

if things continue this way. So things must change sooner or later.

You're a mad man. Why would anyone want to hit the max AP cap? It doesnt do anything then to remove alot of content for you. And if anyone were ever near the cap, I bet Anet would make it higher. Its only there to give out rewards for veteran players.

Why making content if that content is not meant to be reached by any player? That sounds like total nonsense to me. I know that having a goal to reach is nice but that goal must be reached eventually.

Not in MMOs if that goal is to finish the game. As soon as you do everything, more gets added. The goal should be to continue, not to end.

Perhaps, but individual goals should be able to be finished. The continuation should be about setting new goals to be attained. Imagine wanting a certain six piece armor set. You get halfway through earning it and the devs double the cost for the remaining pieces. As you get close to the next piece the cost is increased by an order of magnitude. Never finishing that goal is a source of frustration. Adding a new armor set to be pursued after you have finished acquiring the previous one is how you keep things continuing.

Getting to max achievement points is more of a final goal, since everything gives you points. What is the next goal after completing that? To do that would require most of the achievements to be finished, there would be no goal after that.

getting max rank in WvW.winning a sPvP tournamentgetting all legendary gear for all charactersgetting whatever new armor set comes outlearning to solo fractalsbecoming a respected commander in WvW.accumulating 10,000 gold.accumulating 100,000 gold.

The list is potentially endless, all representing goals one could set after maxing AP.

[Blocki.4931]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@Perses.9683 said:Max Achievement isn’t meant to be reached

yet

and that’s okay.

I fixed your message. It's indeed the point of my topic, it's not meant to be reached now

or ever

if things continue this way. So things must change sooner or later.

You're a mad man. Why would anyone want to hit the max AP cap? It doesnt do anything then to remove alot of content for you. And if anyone were ever near the cap, I bet Anet would make it higher. Its only there to give out rewards for veteran players.

Why making content if that content is not meant to be reached by any player? That sounds like total nonsense to me. I know that having a goal to reach is nice but that goal must be reached eventually.

Not in MMOs if that goal is to finish the game. As soon as you do everything, more gets added. The goal should be to continue, not to end.

Perhaps, but individual goals should be able to be finished. The continuation should be about setting new goals to be attained. Imagine wanting a certain six piece armor set. You get halfway through earning it and the devs double the cost for the remaining pieces. As you get close to the next piece the cost is increased by an order of magnitude. Never finishing that goal is a source of frustration. Adding a new armor set to be pursued after you have finished acquiring the previous one is how you keep things continuing.

Getting to max achievement points is more of a final goal, since everything gives you points. What is the next goal after completing that? To do that would require most of the achievements to be finished, there would be no goal after that.

getting max rank in WvW.winning a sPvP tournamentgetting all legendary gear for all charactersgetting whatever new armor set comes outlearning to solo fractalsbecoming a respected commander in WvW.accumulating 10,000 gold.accumulating 100,000 gold.

The list is potentially endless, all representing goals one could set after maxing AP.

Doesn't matter that all these arbitrary goals can be set for yourself. Once the game no longer gives you the message and points for something it starts to feel unrewarding. I can understand not wanting to continue at that point. Psychological thing in there. Same with maxing out luck. It's super unimportant but once you realize every single luck point you get will be essentially wasted you feel a lot worse about it existing.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I don't remember the Devs stating there is a max AP cap. Just because, so far, that's all that's been found in the files doesn't mean there's a cap.If the game is still up and running when a good portion of players, or even 1 players, hits 60K, I'm sure more tiers will be added. Probably, long before, in fact.

The Devs have never, to my knowledge, talked about AP caps, at all, even though the topic comes up now and then. I'm guessing they like the way it's being handled. /shrug

(I do wish the Daily AP cap would be removed; that certainly plays a part in me not logging in every day, now.)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'd rather ANet focused on adding stuff that's fun to do rather than spending even a minute worrying about the "max AP" or whether any of us can realistically obtain it before 2030. To me, there is an AP cap of 1,000,000,000 AP. I'll never reach it. And that's fine.

[maddoctor.2738]

Let's do some math:Top player has 37758 achievement points, meaning they need 2442 more to get to 40k

Heart of Thorns gave us 235 achievement pointsLS3 gave us 643 achievement points in the story journal or 107.2 per episode5 Tradesman achievement points56 Explorer achievement points110 Shatterer achievement points22 Mastery Insight achievement points185 Specialization achievement points439 Side Stories achievement points477 Year of the Ascension achievement points80 PVP Conqueror achievement points (Revenant)460 Raid achievement points88 Fractals of the Mists achievement points35 Nightmare Fractal achievement points35 Shattered Observatory achievement points18 Legendary Armor achievement points31 Legendary Trinket achievement points95 Basic Collection achievement points46 Rare Collection achievement points74 SAB Collection achievement pointsGrand total after Heart of Thorns: 3135 achievement pointsFestivals 371+ AP (missing some):Wintersday 2015: 193Wintersday 2016: ???Lunar New Year 2016: 109Lunar New Year 2017: 69

Path of Fire gave us 159 story achievement pointsLS4 gave us 255 achievement points so far or 127 per episode48 Slayer achievement points2 Tradesman achievement points25 Explorer achievement points60 Sunken Treasure Hunter achievement points40 Mastery Insights achievement points135 Specialization achievement points468 PVP Map achievement points (I'm not sure exactly when Revenge of Capricorn / Eternal Coliseum rewards were added, but I think it was after Path of Fire)15 PVP Conqueror achievement points115 Raid achievement points15 Twilight Oasis achievement points40 Basic Collection achievement points (Path of Fire + Lunatic Court)90 Rare Collection achievement points9 Legendary Trinket achievement pointsGrand total as of episode 2: 1476 achievement point pointsFestivals:Halloween 2017: ???Wintersday 2017: ???

Including festivals, we get about 3.5k achievement points every 2 years. It will take the top player approximately 6 years to reach 60k Achievement Points at the Heart of Thorns pace, we'll see once LS4 finishes if Path of Fire will have more or less achievement points total.

[WhatLiesBeneath.9018]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Let's do some math:Top player has 37758 achievement points, meaning they need 2442 more to get to 40k

Heart of Thorns gave us 235 achievementsLS3 gave us 643 achievements in the story journal or 107.2 per episode5 Tradesman achievements56 Explorer achievements110 Shatterer achievements22 Mastery Insight achievements185 Specialization achievements439 Side Stories achievements477 Year of the Ascension achievements80 PVP Conqueror achievements (Revenant)460 Raid achievements88 Fractals of the Mists achievements35 Nightmare Fractal achievements35 Shattered Observatory achievements18 Legendary Armor achievements31 Legendary Trinket achievements95 Basic Collection achievements46 Rare Collection achievements74 SAB Collection achievementsGrand total after Heart of Thorns: 3135 achievement pointsFestivals 371+ AP (missing some):Wintersday 2015: 193Wintersday 2016: ???Lunar New Year 2016: 109Lunar New Year 2017: 69

Path of Fire gave us 159 story achievementsLS4 gave us 255 achievements so far or 127 per episode48 Slayer achievements2 Tradesman achievement25 Explorer achievements60 Sunken Treasure Hunter achievements40 Mastery Insights achievements135 Specialization achievements468 PVP Map achievements (I'm not sure exactly when Revenge of Capricorn / Eternal Coliseum rewards were added, but I think it was after Path of Fire)15 PVP Conqueror achievements115 Raid achievements15 Twilight Oasis achievements40 Basic Collection achievements (Path of Fire + Lunatic Court)90 Rare Collection achievements9 Legendary Trinket achievementsGrand total as of episode 2: 1476 achievement pointsFestivals:Halloween 2017: ???Wintersday 2017: ???

Including festivals, we get about 3.5k achievement points every 2 years. It will take the top player approximately 6 years to reach 60k Achievement Points at the Heart of Thorns pace, we'll see once LS4 finishes if Path of Fire will have more or less achievement points total.

Why are you counting achivements and not AP in total you get from them? Thats kind of arbitrary tbh.

[maddoctor.2738]

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Let's do some math:Top player has 37758 achievement points, meaning they need 2442 more to get to 40k

Heart of Thorns gave us 235 achievementsLS3 gave us 643 achievements in the story journal or 107.2 per episode5 Tradesman achievements56 Explorer achievements110 Shatterer achievements22 Mastery Insight achievements185 Specialization achievements439 Side Stories achievements477 Year of the Ascension achievements80 PVP Conqueror achievements (Revenant)460 Raid achievements88 Fractals of the Mists achievements35 Nightmare Fractal achievements35 Shattered Observatory achievements18 Legendary Armor achievements31 Legendary Trinket achievements95 Basic Collection achievements46 Rare Collection achievements74 SAB Collection achievementsGrand total after Heart of Thorns: 3135 achievement pointsFestivals 371+ AP (missing some):Wintersday 2015: 193Wintersday 2016: ???Lunar New Year 2016: 109Lunar New Year 2017: 69

Path of Fire gave us 159 story achievementsLS4 gave us 255 achievements so far or 127 per episode48 Slayer achievements2 Tradesman achievement25 Explorer achievements60 Sunken Treasure Hunter achievements40 Mastery Insights achievements135 Specialization achievements468 PVP Map achievements (I'm not sure exactly when Revenge of Capricorn / Eternal Coliseum rewards were added, but I think it was after Path of Fire)15 PVP Conqueror achievements115 Raid achievements15 Twilight Oasis achievements40 Basic Collection achievements (Path of Fire + Lunatic Court)90 Rare Collection achievements9 Legendary Trinket achievementsGrand total as of episode 2: 1476 achievement pointsFestivals:Halloween 2017: ???Wintersday 2017: ???

Including festivals, we get about 3.5k achievement points every 2 years. It will take the top player approximately 6 years to reach 60k Achievement Points at the Heart of Thorns pace, we'll see once LS4 finishes if Path of Fire will have more or less achievement points total.

Why are you counting achivements and not AP in total you get from them? Thats kind of arbitrary tbh.

When I say Achievements I mean AP. It's the total AP you gain, not the number of achievements.

Edit: Changed it to add the word "points" everywhere to clear any misunderstanding

[WhatLiesBeneath.9018]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Let's do some math:Top player has 37758 achievement points, meaning they need 2442 more to get to 40k

Heart of Thorns gave us 235 achievementsLS3 gave us 643 achievements in the story journal or 107.2 per episode5 Tradesman achievements56 Explorer achievements110 Shatterer achievements22 Mastery Insight achievements185 Specialization achievements439 Side Stories achievements477 Year of the Ascension achievements80 PVP Conqueror achievements (Revenant)460 Raid achievements88 Fractals of the Mists achievements35 Nightmare Fractal achievements35 Shattered Observatory achievements18 Legendary Armor achievements31 Legendary Trinket achievements95 Basic Collection achievements46 Rare Collection achievements74 SAB Collection achievementsGrand total after Heart of Thorns: 3135 achievement pointsFestivals 371+ AP (missing some):Wintersday 2015: 193Wintersday 2016: ???Lunar New Year 2016: 109Lunar New Year 2017: 69

Path of Fire gave us 159 story achievementsLS4 gave us 255 achievements so far or 127 per episode48 Slayer achievements2 Tradesman achievement25 Explorer achievements60 Sunken Treasure Hunter achievements40 Mastery Insights achievements135 Specialization achievements468 PVP Map achievements (I'm not sure exactly when Revenge of Capricorn / Eternal Coliseum rewards were added, but I think it was after Path of Fire)15 PVP Conqueror achievements115 Raid achievements15 Twilight Oasis achievements40 Basic Collection achievements (Path of Fire + Lunatic Court)90 Rare Collection achievements9 Legendary Trinket achievementsGrand total as of episode 2: 1476 achievement pointsFestivals:Halloween 2017: ???Wintersday 2017: ???

Including festivals, we get about 3.5k achievement points every 2 years. It will take the top player approximately 6 years to reach 60k Achievement Points at the Heart of Thorns pace, we'll see once LS4 finishes if Path of Fire will have more or less achievement points total.

Why are you counting achivements and not AP in total you get from them? Thats kind of arbitrary tbh.

When I say Achievements I mean AP. It's the total AP you gain, not the number of achievements.

Edit: Changed it to add the word "points" everywhere to clear any misunderstanding

Oh sorry I misread your whole post, my fault!

I have been keeping count on the total AP since HoT too, and its surely a huge disappointment every time a new episode come out and its about 100-140 AP per 3 months.Tbh, for anyone that has hit the Daily AP cap, AP is kind of arbitrary, even expansions have a limit to not that much over 1k.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Zaraki.5784 said:I see only 2 solutions to this problem, either compress achievement reward from 0-60k to 0-40k or put A LOT of achievement points in the next expansion.More ideas are welcome.I see a problem here: what exactly is the problem?

[Brother.1504]

Not being able to hit the AP cap is better then easily hitting the cap and having nothing to do. Magic find and salvaged luck as an example.

[maddoctor.2738]

First, I forgot to add the 228 Achievements from the Legendary Weapon journeys that were added with Heart of ThornsAlso the 45 Specialization collection achievements from Heart of Thorns (includes the Mistward heavy armor set).Then the 27 Specialization collection achievements from Path of Fire

Heart of Thorns: 3408Path of Fire (as of now): 1503

Time to go a bit further back now.LS2:548 Story Journal AP229 Silverwastes AP114 Dry Top AP110 Collection APLS2 total: 1001 AP

Let's find out the AP total of LS1 now:25 Seasonal AP474 Super Adventure Box AP3426 Historical AP246 Retired AP100 Twilight Assault AP135 Triple Trouble AP116 Tequatl AP115 Bosses AP4637 APThere are 891 collection achievement points if we subtract the 141 from Heart of Thorns and the 130 from Path of Fire, we get 620 bringing the total of LS1 to 5257 AP Achievement Points from October 2012 (first content update) to May 2014 (end of LS1)

In the 19 months of LS1 we got 5257 AP, 277 AP per monthIn the 7 months of LS2, we got 1001 AP, 143 AP per monthIn the 23 months of Heart of Thorns, we got 3408 AP, 148 AP per monthIn the 9 months of Path of Fire, we got 1503, 167 AP per month

Note: I'm not counting the Festivals here. Arenanet named some of them the same "Shadow of the Mad King" for example, making it really hard, if not impossible, to tell which part of achievements is from which year. Some have a year included but I think it wouldn't be fair to include only those. If anyone has the Festival totals per year I'll include them to the totals. For anyone interested, there is a total of 1398 AP from ALL Festivals.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

Im fairly sure ArenaNet will add some more achievements to the game.

[Castigator.3470]

Why can't the cap be a round number, either a power of 10 or a power of 2, so either 100,000 || 99,999 (10^5 -1) or 65,536 || 65,535 (2^16 -1)? A cap of 60,000 doesn't satisfy my sense of number aesthetics. :D

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

'Cause there is no cap.

[Pifil.5193]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:you know AP distribution lacks any reason behind it when you get 25 AP for kneeling before Pale Tree and 0 AP for getting God of PvP title.Blame a certain known achiever for that last one.

I absolutely do. But even if we ignore his involvment, most "special snowflake" pvp title was 10 AP only if I recall correctly.

What happened, out of curiosity?

A user complained that said title gave out ap since they were a ap hunter and would probabely never be able to get said title, it then got removed.Said user then turned around and wanted fractal god/godess to have a even bigger ap number since it took so much resources to accuire.

Having an AP leaderboard at all was a terrible idea, IMO. If there was no AP leaderboard then there wouldn't have to be a Daily Cap, for example, and things like whining to get AP removed off a title wouldn't happen.

[Glider.5792]

I just think that daily cap should be increased a bit every year, maybe by 1000 points ? Maybe more, but not too much.Achievments realy need another look at, there are way too many that give too little points (1ap) which could easily be at least 5, and some which just give way too much, mainly ls1 meta achievments rewarding 50ap and such, though i dont mind that ;)

Anyone has any idea what the hellfire infusion might be ? Possibly a reward after the backpieces (48k ap) ?

[maddoctor.2738]

@Pifil.5193 said:Having an AP leaderboard at all was a terrible idea, IMO. If there was no AP leaderboard then there wouldn't have to be a Daily Cap, for example, and things like whining to get AP removed off a title wouldn't happen.

Having a leaderboard or not doesn't change the need for a daily cap. The daily cap exists because AP rewards is an infinite reward track, infinite reward tracks need capped acquisition too. If they did not have a cap then every player that joins later in the game's history won't ever get access to some of the rewards. This is terrible reward design and the reason caps exist.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Aside this discussion: It's an MMO, nothing is set in stone. There weren't any achievement rewards at the beginning of GW2 for example. They still can/will change it. Why do people always think so narrow minded?

[Pifil.5193]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Pifil.5193" said:Having an AP leaderboard at all was a terrible idea, IMO. If there was no AP leaderboard then there wouldn't have to be a Daily Cap, for example, and things like whining to get AP removed off a title wouldn't happen.

Having a leaderboard or not doesn't change the need for a daily cap. The daily cap exists because AP rewards is an infinite reward track, infinite reward tracks need capped acquisition too. If they did not have a cap then every player that joins later in the game's history won't ever get access to some of the rewards. This is terrible reward design and the reason caps exist.

Yeah, one of the primary reasons given for the cap in the past was to give new players a chance to "catch up" with veteran players on the Leaderboard. This is nonsense, of course, as those new players can never catch up with early veterans that are still playing because the new player missed LS1 and all the AP there. Turning APs into a competition was a terrible idea to begin with.

The Achievement Rewards Track ends at 60,000 AP either way and it's a heck of a lot easier for new players (and veterans) to get close to that if they're not capped at 15,000 daily points.