Are you satisfied with the specialization paths?

[Imperadordf.2687]

Using fancy words doesn't make you right.

[Cifrer.6013]

OP, I'm sorry but having read through the entire thread here...it just looks like you don't want to learn how to play this game. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bad.

I'd say it's worth taking a step back and reevaluating things.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Cifrer.6013 said:OP, I'm sorry but having read through the entire thread here...it just looks like you don't want to learn how to play this game. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bad.

I'd say it's worth taking a step back and reevaluating things.

Years of playing this game have blinded you to what only an inexperienced player can see.

[Cifrer.6013]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:OP, I'm sorry but having read through the entire thread here...it just looks like you don't want to learn how to play this game. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bad.

I'd say it's worth taking a step back and reevaluating things.

Years of playing this game have blinded you to what only an inexperienced player can see.

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't say the system is perfect, not by a long shot. The specific complaints I've seen about it though look more like a reimagining of the system as opposed to some fixes though. Asking to change core aspects of a game to suit your own personal preferences isn't going to go anywhere.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

@"Robban.1256" said:False , healing signet is at the top of the highest healing for a warrior and can't be interrupted, here's from my post on the old forum + spb healing:HealingComparisons between our heals to show how much hp/min you heal with them:Healing Signet – 344 hp every 1 sec 60 = 20640 hp/min + active healing×2=(6960hp)= 27600hp/minMending – 6520hp every 15sec 4 = 26,080 hp/minTo the limit– 9100 hp every 30 sec (with full adrenaline) = 18,200 hp/min

I like how you decided to go by an arbitrary minute instead of the more realistic approach of comparing heal rate against other skills cooldowns. You completely ignore all context too.HS carries 5160 healing in 15 seconds, pre patch it was 5730. Mending heals for far more, and even removes conditions as opposed to just "ignoring them for a tiny bit". Not impressive. LuLHSig heals more in 30s (10320) than untraited TTL (9100), but you're using TTL without speccing for Shouts and getting the complete 10,100 per 24. lul.Two hits of Mending (13040) per 30 still wind up being better in the long run.

I also like how you cheated and included "Active Healing" in when calculating Passive. Did you actually forget that you don't gain Passive signet effects during a cooldown? Using the Active heal will reduce the total heal. Don't tell me that those numbers come from Adrenal, because that can be used with any other heal skill.Way to skew the results to make HS look more powerful than it actually is. It wasn't even that amazing pre-nerf.

[Airdive.2613]

@XenoSpyro.1780 said:

@"Robban.1256" said:False , healing signet is at the top of the highest healing for a warrior and can't be interrupted, here's from my post on the old forum + spb healing:HealingComparisons between our heals to show how much hp/min you heal with them:Healing Signet – 344 hp every 1 sec

60 = 20640 hp/min + active healing×2=(6960hp)= 27600hp/minMending – 6520hp every 15sec

4 = 26,080 hp/minTo the limit– 9100 hp every 30 sec (with full adrenaline) = 18,200 hp/min

I like how you decided to go by an arbitrary minute instead of the more realistic approach of comparing heal rate against other skills cooldowns. You completely ignore all context too.HS carries 5160 healing in 15 seconds, pre patch it was 5730. Mending heals for far more, and even removes conditions as opposed to just "ignoring them for a tiny bit". Not impressive. LuLHSig heals more in 30s (10320) than untraited TTL (9100), but you're using TTL without speccing for Shouts and getting the complete 10,100 per 24. lul.Two hits of Mending (13040) per 30 still wind up being better in the long run.

I also like how you cheated and included "Active Healing" in when calculating Passive. Did you actually forget that you don't gain Passive signet effects during a cooldown? Using the Active heal will reduce the total heal. Don't tell me that those numbers come from Adrenal, because that can be used with any other heal skill.Way to skew the results to make HS look more powerful than it actually is. It wasn't even that amazing pre-nerf.

While you're obviously right about signet's active healing, healing signet's passive is still extremely useful because it keeps healing you unconditionally. Mending, on the other hand, has a cast time of a whole second (according to the wiki) and can be interrupted.

[Westenev.5289]

I remember when HoT came out, I was kind of hyped about every trait I unlocked. This hype quickly died down when I realised I was pretty much locked to the best traits, since every fight is standardised to only need max DPS and generic cc for the occasional breakbar.

When PoF came around, I didn't know what to make of the elite specs. I thought they were PvP exclusive, and couldn't see how they could ever be useful even if they were shinie with fresh mechanics. It often wasn't a choice of what traits I wanted to take to each encounter, but which traits I thought would hinder me the least while I ran around with the shinie new elite spec weapon.

Personally, I don't think the problem lays in the spec's themselves, but in the generic breakbar design that renders blind and cc pointless.

[sorudo.9054]

i personally hate the current system, i much rather not have skills locked in tiers and i much rather have no trait locked behind points.i much rather get a higher tier and choose the one i like, they are forcing ppl to grind for points just like they force ppl to grind for every single frikin thing.

[Ashen.2907]

@DotDotWin.4357 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:It has to have some drawbacks, you know!

Exactly. The whole idea of a God-Mode block everything button is stupid but it's infinitely more stupid that you have it on a timer. Carrying a shield should give you a randomized (40%?) block chance for normal attacks, a stun (shield slam) like it has now, and a cower behind your shield to reflect ranged attacks option for when you start getting pelted by a thief half the map away that is on a cool down. Having it be all or nothing is just stupid and illogical. That's not how fighting works.

Actually shield use, on an individual basis, was usually an active thing. A randomized block chance without regard to active effort on the part of the user or attacker would be much less accurate than something tied to the user's active effort.

Also, keep in mind that a shield does currently provide some of its defensive benefit passively, without cooldown, etc.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Using fancy words doesn't make you right.Nor does it make you wrong.

[Dante.1763]

@sorudo.9054 said:i personally hate the current system, i much rather not have skills locked in tiers and i much rather have no trait locked behind points.i much rather get a higher tier and choose the one i like, they are forcing ppl to grind for points just like they force ppl to grind for every single frikin thing.

I remember the good ol days when you could slot a tier 1 trait in a grandmaster slot, i miss those days quite a bit still, as i find most of the grand masters lack luster and would rather have a second choice of adept :/

[Michram.6853]

Yes, I am.

[DotDotWin.4357]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:OP, I'm sorry but having read through the entire thread here...it just looks like you don't want to learn how to play this game. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bad.

I'd say it's worth taking a step back and reevaluating things.

Years of playing this game have blinded you to what only an inexperienced player can see.

What this inexperienced player can see is that people who have the expansion packs are always going to crush people who don't. The abilities you need to be competitive for PVP are locked behind that pay-wall. As someone who plays online games to escape the fact I live in abject poverty, guild wars is not the game for me.

I guess free to play players are just there for people who have bought the x-packs to slaughter. You have fun with that.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@DotDotWin.4357 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Cifrer.6013 said:OP, I'm sorry but having read through the entire thread here...it just looks like you don't want to learn how to play this game. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bad.

I'd say it's worth taking a step back and reevaluating things.

Years of playing this game have blinded you to what only an inexperienced player can see.

What this inexperienced player can see is that people who have the expansion packs are always going to crush people who don't. The abilities you need to be competitive for PVP are locked behind that pay-wall. As someone who plays online games to escape the fact I live in abject poverty, guild wars is not the game for me.

I guess free to play players are just there for people who have bought the x-packs to slaughter. You have fun with that.

I was commenting on your understanding of and suggestions for the combat system's trait choices, how they fit into the whole, as well as the merits of active vs. passive weapon skills. Elite specs are obviously designed to be stronger than core specs. You'll find no argument here on that.

[DotDotWin.4357]

I agree which means "free to play" just means "free to be abused by the people who can pay so we don't have to actually provide content."

[MauChann.3081]

This thread is really only meant for non-casual gameplay huh?

[starlinvf.1358]

@DotDotWin.4357 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:Nope, that lucky roll will not make you feel heroic.

So we should eliminate crit chance then to, right? I mean, if you don't want randomness interfering with the purity of your skill based counter play model then crit has to go, doesn't it? Why is one ok but not the other?

Actually yes.... its something thats been thought about on and off for a long time, because several traits and effects have expendable charges, and the difference of a crit and non-crit can be upwards of double or even triple in damage. Precision has also been one of the most difficult stats to balance in terms of agency, because Crit chance is effectively useless below below 50%, most builds try to maintain at least 70% base for practical reasons, and doesn't scale past 100% despite the number of traits that give it as a bonus. In fact, over the last several balance pass, many of the Prc/Crit% bonus traits are being converted to Fer or some other type of damage bonus to make them more scalable.

And its pretty obvious that all of this is an effort to eek out some use case in Raids, since there is no other part in the game where a group comp would guaranty enough passive bonuses to have 100% crit without substantial personal gear/trait investment. Prec is not only becoming marginalized in a decision making process, the way its being repurposed in buildcraft is furthering the divide between Raids, with its DPS obsession, and other game modes where internal balance is more valuable and harder to accomplish.

With all the changes being made to effectively balance around the assumption of 100% crit rate, we may as well have the discussion of dumping Crit% completely and replace it with something else that has more value in a play/counter play model.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Westenev.5289 said:I remember when HoT came out, I was kind of hyped about every trait I unlocked. This hype quickly died down when I realised I was pretty much locked to the best traits, since every fight is standardised to only need max DPS and generic cc for the occasional breakbar.

When PoF came around, I didn't know what to make of the elite specs. I thought they were PvP exclusive, and couldn't see how they could ever be useful even if they were shinie with fresh mechanics. It often wasn't a choice of what traits I wanted to take to each encounter, but which traits I thought would hinder me the least while I ran around with the shinie new elite spec weapon.

Personally, I don't think the problem lays in the spec's themselves, but in the generic breakbar design that renders blind and cc pointless.

The problem isn't the mechanics, and the break bar is actually a solution to Champs being rendered a non-threat with the amount of soft CCs that can be piled on them. This was a HUGE deal with World bosses, where zergs generated enough blinds to basically cause entire boss AOE attack to miss everyone (I distinctly remember this from Jungle wurm). The old defiance system also hard CCs impossible to coordinate, so the strongest lands for best effect. Half the time a champ would get knocked around by Ranger LB4, which enraged players because of how it disrupts the brainless DPS behavior.

Ultimately the problem comes back to the simplistic AI behavior of Enemies, and how deploying smarter AI behavior causes players to lose their minds trying to fight a moving target. Players already hate enemies with defensive skills; and our reliance on AOE for damage and gambits in how skills are designed further reinforce that mind set. See, break bars turn champs into Juggernauts, meaning you can't just suppress it with CCs to make it safe to fight. However, the reason it doesn't stand out, is because everything else already behaves that way..... and that the value of CC and counter play scale with the threat level of the target.

Unsurprisingly, the most dangerous enemy in the game are dopplegangers. Copies of players which use the same types of skills and build concepts a player might use. This makes both defensive skills and shut downs more important, because any attack it can connect leaves you extremely vulnerable to follow up attacks. Compare that to the average Champ, which just soaks damage, and attacks every 5 seconds with some kind of attack that tears up your health if it connects. But the only fights anyone takes seriously are the Champs with access to Hard CCs, AOEs, or Hard AOE CCs. But in all of those cases, the mobs are potato that just use skills on cool down, or in specific patterns..... things that are not difficult to learn, and simply avoided.

The classes are fundamentally built to work in a PvP environment, against builds that operate on similar principles. PvE works the exact opposite way, where the enemy has no reactive or adapted decision making process, and thus never changes its behavior. A player on the other hand will adapt, and require a wider range or skills and effects to capitalize on an opening, or counter against tactics used against them. The further this game has come along, the more passive its skills and traits are becoming..... and the only other vector for balance when that happens is DPS, counters to DPS, and the volumes in which they can be deployed. Warrior defenses work in such a way their power directly scales with how damage its mitigating..... and since the damage scales have practically tripled since Launch, without changing anything in the defense skill's mechanics, its effectiveness has increased by the same amount. That alone should tell you a LOT about whats going on.

[Agent Noun.7350]

This kind of system could always be better.

My own opinion is that just plain bonus stat numbers are always boring. (Honestly, I think stats in general are kind of boring in comparison to actual, tangible effects, but that's a separate issue.) The more "you get X more power/precision/whatever" traits that ArenaNet can replace with things that give you noticeable new effects or abilities, or that change how you use your abilities, the more interesting the system will become.

That said, it's largely a moot point. At least from a PvE standpoint, there will always be an optimal choice, even if it's only by a little bit, and someone will find it, share it, and that's what most people will use without thinking about it. No game system could ever be perfectly balanced so that every option is exactly as good as every other option. So while I can dream about a system where trait choices are completely about playstyle preference and every single one is meaningful, in the end, that world can't exist, and what we have is pretty good.

[Arzurag.7506]

Lackluster visuals and low impact of my choices in terms of chosing abilities and traits has always been a turn off for me.Only a certain theme kept me playing, like that of the reaper, until Anet decided, that it is worth the sacrefice for compensation of balance-issues.At least, my investments keep me playing now, I wish it would be different but I guess, only a GW3 could solve this specific problem.