Hearts and Minds: What were you thinking?

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:My point is, if your play style is off in any of the game's mechanics it compounds the difficulty.

Define play style because it sounds like you just want to do X while the boss requires you to X, Y, and Z.

Look up what compound means.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

@MinervaPiton.2097 said:

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:My point is, if your play style is off in any of the game's mechanics it compounds the difficulty.

This is exactly why you learn the mechanics and each time you get better at it.

Those mechanics are "use a certain gear set that you didn't need until you reached this specific part" and "don't use that trait combo that was fine for everything else up to that point".

[Substance E.4852]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@MinervaPiton.2097 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:My point is, if your play style is off in any of the game's mechanics it compounds the difficulty.

This is exactly why you learn the mechanics and each time you get better at it.

Those mechanics are "use a certain gear set that you didn't need until you reached this specific part" and "don't use that trait combo that was fine for everything else up to that point".

No one's forcing you to use full glass gear.

Even less so if you can't personally complete content with it on.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I'm saying its one of the many issues. That's why I used the word compound.

[TexZero.7910]

I'd argue they were thinking that this was an easy fight to be frank. There's nothing that some basic problem solving can't get you to overcome.

Apparently, that however is too much to ask for in games.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@MinervaPiton.2097 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:My point is, if your play style is off in any of the game's mechanics it compounds the difficulty.

This is exactly why you learn the mechanics and each time you get better at it.

Those mechanics are "use a certain gear set that you didn't need until you reached this specific part" and "don't use that trait combo that was fine for everything else up to that point".

No.I can't think of a single encounter in this game other than maybe The Departed where you actually need a gear/skill change or to trait specifically to that encounter.When I look at the most complained about missions in terms of Difficulty what are they?Hearts and MindsThe DepartedConfessor's EndThese encounters can all beat easily beat with sub-par damage if you only do the mechanics. All of the encounters in the story are mechanics challenges. Many are made significantly easier/faster with good damage, but all of them boil down to doing the mechanics properly. They are this way by design to appease both the power-gamers who benefit with a significantly less downtime, and the ultra casual who can beat these "tremendous encounters" and enjoy the game with a low skill cap.Hearts and Minds is a perfect example.

[Faffin.6741]

The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Gamers in 1998: "The boss is super hard, does anyone have any good strategy to beat it?"Gamers in 2018: "The boss is super hard, so the developers are sadists"

Gamers in 1988: "Hey, can you copy the cheat onto my diskette, buddy?" ;)

@Wyrd.1432 said:I'm a casual player, so I suppose HoT storyline completion is not for me. I've tried Hearts and Minds several times solo and just now with a five-member group, and it's still proving tediously difficult to get past the first boss and there's two more to face after that?

We are having this discussion repeatedly with story missions that look difficult at first. Learn the mechanics, then it's easy to beat. Always.

Also, in Hearts and Minds, you can choose which two fights you will face by selecting the respective NPCs from your group. It's hard to believe no one in your full party had any info on that or knew what to do. I've never had that issue, and I always do Hearts and Minds with a team of 2-5 people.

With a full party who you pick doesn't matter. If you are solo the pale tree can be a bit more difficult because you might not be able to run around to kill all the adds but with a full party that is much simpler.

[TexZero.7910]

@Faffin.6741 said:The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

It's a good thing that fight isnt challenging then.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Gamers in 1998: "The boss is super hard, does anyone have any good strategy to beat it?"Gamers in 2018: "The boss is super hard, so the developers are sadists"

Gamers in 1998: "This MMO has 100k population! It is soo big!"Gamers in 2018: "This MMO has 100k population... it must be dying"

Personally, i'd rather have what we have now, than go back to those old niche game population sizes (and budgets).

(also, you probably simply don't remember the wave of complains about Ultima Online difficulty when it opened)

[Dante.1763]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Faffin.6741 said:The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

It's a good thing that fight isnt challenging then.

To you. Look i get it, i dont find the fights hard either, but you arent everyone, and not everyone has the same or will ever have the same level of skill as other players. On top of that, you have the random bugs that are annoying as hell and can cause you to restart the entire instance randomly. You cant just revive and continue the fight which if i recall correctly even anet said was a problem, and bringing other players isnt always the solution either especially if they too are having issues with the instance.

[Blocki.4931]

I remember spending around 9 hours total on killing ol' Mordy first time. I hated him, I hated my thief and I especially hated myself, but the victory was sweet. And so was the challenge mode.

[Khisanth.2948]

o_O 9 hours? Were you doing Migraine solo?

[Haishao.6851]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Gamers in 1998: "The boss is super hard, does anyone have any good strategy to beat it?"Gamers in 2018: "The boss is super hard, so the developers are sadists"

Gamers in 1978: "The boss is super hard, guess I will change the code." :)

Gamers in 1958: "Can someone take this lawn dart out of my foot?"

[Faffin.6741]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Faffin.6741 said:The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

It's a good thing that fight isnt challenging then.

It was for me back then, because I'd only done open world. You might be surprised how elite you actually are compared to most of the player base :)

[Dante.1763]

@Faffin.6741 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Faffin.6741 said:The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

It's a good thing that fight isnt challenging then.

It was for me back then, because I'd only done open world. You might be surprised how elite you actually are compared to most of the player base :)

well..a good player does 5x the damage an average player does. So if that continues than an average player will do 5x the damage at a minimum of a bad player, probably more honestly.

[Blocki.4931]

@Khisanth.2948 said:o_O 9 hours? Were you doing Migraine solo?

Yes.

I was also not very good at the game. Getting hit by that very last rock </3 Good memories.

[Shadowzerk.4715]

HoT Boss fight: Hard, but not boringPoF Boos fight: Hard, but bloody boring

[Blocki.4931]

@Shadowzerk.4715 said:HoT Boss fight: Hard, but not boringPoF Boos fight: Hard, but bloody boring

Would have been great if we didn't fight him multiple times & if there was any feeling of tension. Dying on the Balthazar fight wasn't as punishing as it should have been tbh

[Odinens.5920]

@Wyrd.1432 said:

@yoni.7015 said:I am a casual player as well and I did the HoT story content alone. Maybe you should check your gear and your build if you can upgrade it.

What was your profession, gear, and build that you, as an alleged casual player, were able to solo Hearts and Minds with?

Soloed with Dragonhunter and S/D Weaver (neither was my 1st time through it however). I'm going with an above poster and guessing you were accidentally doing challenge mode.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Khisanth.2948 said:With a full party who you pick doesn't matter. If you are solo the pale tree can be a bit more difficult because you might not be able to run around to kill all the adds but with a full party that is much simpler.

Why are you telling me this? I am not the one having issues with the mission, and I do not recommend to solo it to anyone who is having trouble even with a party.

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:Those mechanics are "use a certain gear set that you didn't need until you reached this specific part" and "don't use that trait combo that was fine for everything else up to that point".

No.[...]These encounters can all beat easily beat with sub-par damage if you only do the mechanics.

All of the encounters in the story are mechanics challenges.

Exactly. I have never changed gear for any of the story missions, not even bulids (only one skill on occasion, perhaps).

[mindcircus.1506]

@Astralporing.1957 said:(also, you probably simply don't remember the wave of complains about Ultima Online difficulty when it opened)

Actually I do remember. I just have no need to remind everyone of the fact on an unrelated topic as if it somehow makes me special.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Heart&Minds: first time I finally did it with a friend. I just could not do it alone. I tried and tried and failed and failed. I was just bad.Second time I did it for a friend. The person needed some players to help, so I helped. We were 4, it was easy.Third time I did it solo. It was easy.

I got better. LW3 trained me well to take on hard bosses (Caudecus pre nerf anyone?). I don't want to throw in 'git gud' but... if you are so 'hyper casual' that you can't do Modri with friends - how are you going to tackle the nightmare that some LW3 and PoF bosses are?

[Ashgar.3024]

@Wyrd.1432 said:

@yoni.7015 said:I am a casual player as well and I did the HoT story content alone. Maybe you should check your gear and your build if you can upgrade it.

What was your profession, gear, and build that you, as an alleged casual player, were able to solo Hearts and Minds with?

I did the entirety of HoT in exotic Rampager's gear on Thief back when i started a year ago. Its really not that hard if you put some efforts into it.

And i'm quite casual (play from 0 to 3 hours a day or so outside occasionally on week ends where i'll play more assuming i have absolutely nothing else going on and that nothing unexpected happens at the restaurant i manage forcing me to go in).

I mean know what OP, just add me and i'll come solo the boss for you if it can prevent devs from dumbing the game down even further, i really don't mind.

[Kavian.6729]

@Jarl Petter Hinrik.1409 said:Never finished that one either. Screamed so much at my computer... Happy no one was home. It was really kitten (a big angry one with super pointy claws!).

One day, I might study the mechanics, but it sucks to have to do that, it feels like cheating. We need more tutorials to figure out ways to deal with these kinds of bosses without having to rely on wikis and youtube videos from external sources...

After trying for an hour. I said screw it. I understand fractals need to be difficult but this is a story instance.