From the Ashes instance is unfair to some classes

[Thiazi.1250]

Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

[Ayrilana.1396]

You really only need swiftness to be honest.

[Warscythes.9307]

Some instances will always favor some classes. Unless you want everything homogenized then this will always be a thing.

Honestly I did it on Reaper too and one shot it without dying. Got sniped once as I didn't realize the wooden barricades can break but that's it. Just go in shroud and spam 2 with perma swiftness trait. Soul eater is enough to counter most if not all of the gas damage. Worst case just buy one of those endurance food, cost some silver and just roll across.

[notebene.3190]

I sadly didn't get the timed achievement, or not getting hit, but after awhile, the instance got 'frustrated' with me, and reminded me that my Elementalist has other skills, so I thew on my teleport and my Lightning Flash and Mist Form and was able to scoot around better with that. I might try it again with her to at least get the timed achievement. Fun instance though.

[Tails.9372]

Fun instance, this is how they should have done deadeye gameplay instead of this "hide and seek" gameplay we have right now.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

@Thiazi.1250 said:Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

This is incorrect. I did this on my Ranger, but I didn't use speed boost, swiftness, or anything else that might help. I did this exclusively by running at normal run speed and dodging appropriately and I got the achievement for not being shot on my first try. I then crashed right at the end and had to do it a second time. This time I was more careless, attempting to do it faster and I still only got shot twice. No big deal.

[Orion Templar.4589]

My first run through it was on my Ranger. What I found worked was to locate what pillar or junk pile I was going to move to next, and then count the pulses of her target/malice on me. When it reached the 3rd or 4th pulse and I knew she was going to fire, I'd dodge then, evade the shot, and I'd make it behind the pillar. It was a rather fun and challenging encounter. (Teleports not required, although I can see where those would make it simpler.)

[Thiazi.1250]

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:

@Thiazi.1250 said:Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

This is incorrect. I did this on my Ranger, but I didn't use speed boost, swiftness, or anything else that might help. I did this exclusively by running at normal run speed and dodging appropriately and I got the achievement for not being shot on my first try. I then crashed right at the end and had to do it a second time. This time I was more careless, attempting to do it faster and I still only got shot twice. No big deal.

It's not incorrect though. My point isn't that it's impossible to do as a Reaper (I completed it), or even just running and dodging. My point is that some classes have tools that can make this instance much easier, while others don't.

This isn't me whining that it's too hard. I'm trying to point out that some classes are much better equipped to do this in others, which I believe should not be the case in story content. If it was a raid, fractal, a dungeon, or even just achievements, I wouldn't care. Those are good places to let classes play to their individual strengths. This, however, is the story, which is intended for pretty much everyone to play; having some classes with a huge advantage or disadvantage is bad design, in my opinion.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Thiazi.1250 said:Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

These means are only required if you are going for the Sniper achievement. Otherwise, using a mount, speed-up skills and dodge is enough to get through the mission just fine.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

While I sympathize with those who have difficulty with the content, I must admit I find this instance laughably easy.

Condi Soulbeast with no movement abilities, and I got the timed achievement first try.

I'm unsure how ANet can make something like this easier without trivializing it for a majority of players.

[Gehenna.3625]

Well I had no issue really on my guardian without the use of any speed boosts. What you need to be able to do is time your moves right between shots, go for cover to block the assassination shots and use your dodge roll as a gap closer and it worked for me.

Sure the first time around I died quite quickly cause I wasn't expecting it, so I went out the instance and tried again and I did it. That some classes can move through that quickly is probably true but then there's fights where I'd much rather have my guardian anyway so I don't really see the problem here.

[Klipso.8653]

The real problem is that stealthing with glides and shields/bubbles/reflects don't do anything.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Klipso.8653 said:The real problem is that stealthing with glides and shields/bubbles/reflects don't do anything.

Stealthing doesn't work?? :o Aww. I was looking forward to getting the Sniper achievement that way. Bummer.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:The real problem is that

stealthing

with glides and shields/bubbles/reflects

don't do anything

.

Stealthing doesn't work?? :o Aww. I was looking forward to getting the Sniper achievement that way. Bummer.

If you're planning on using a Thief, Shortbow #5 would be very effective. I think.

[Ayrilana.1396]

If all else fail, players can group up and pre-emptively station themselves are the three locations that she goes two. She doesn’t do all that much damage in melee so most players should be fine solo.

[meowtier.1364]

@Thiazi.1250 said:Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

You also have dodges. I feel like they would have already had to taken into account the mobility of each class while making that instance lol

[Kal Spiro.9745]

@Thiazi.1250 said:

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:

@Thiazi.1250 said:Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

This is incorrect. I did this on my Ranger, but I didn't use speed boost, swiftness, or anything else that might help. I did this exclusively by running at normal run speed and dodging appropriately and I got the achievement for not being shot on my first try. I then crashed right at the end and had to do it a second time. This time I was more careless, attempting to do it faster and I still only got shot twice. No big deal.

It's not incorrect though. My point isn't that it's impossible to do as a Reaper (I completed it), or even just running and dodging. My point is that some classes have tools that can make this instance much easier, while others don't.

This isn't me whining that it's too hard. I'm trying to point out that some classes are much better equipped to do this in others, which I believe should not be the case in story content. If it was a raid, fractal, a dungeon, or even just achievements, I wouldn't care. Those are good places to let classes play to their individual strengths. This, however, is the story, which is intended for pretty much everyone to play; having some classes with a huge advantage or disadvantage is bad design, in my opinion.

This is meaningless. The classes work differently. That's to be expected. The scenario wasn't and shouldn't have been designed around the fact that some of the classes can do it easier. It should be designed around not having any ability to skip, which is succeeded at. It means that even a build that has no ability to improve its movement is able to complete the mission without issue.

It was designed correctly.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Warscythes.9307" said:Some instances will always favor some classes. Unless you want everything homogenized then this will always be a thing.

Exactly. There have been several achievements in the past that favored different professions. It's not a big deal, really, as long as you can get through every story mission normally (i.e., without attempting specific achievements) with any profession.

.I just did "Sniper, No Sniping!" and "I Brought a Friend" in one go (on my second attempt, as I was figuring out the best route across the field):

• stealth definitely works (its duration is just much shorter, probably due to the poison or Zafirah's sharp eye)
• as expected, thief was perfect for this, with staff skill 5 and dodging forward getting you across almost half of the field!

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

well, everything in this game favours thieves, mesmers and rangers. So what? Just deal with it. Do your stuff and feel good that you have done it with a class that is not on anets lapdog list.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:well, everything in this game favours thieves, mesmers and rangers.

Errr, not true?

So what? Just deal with it. Do your stuff and feel good that you have done it with a class that is not on anets lapdog list.

That is a very weird assumption. I have played through the content with all existing professions and find most of it easily doable on other professions, like Guardian, Warrior or Necromancer, for instance. How on earth does one perceive the three professions you named as "receiving a special treatment" by ANet? Sorry, but that's inexplicable to me.

[Drecien.4508]

Did anyone else feel like you were fighting Quiet on mgs phantom pain?

[Connor Fallon.9408]

I just want to say that I really enjoyed reading about all the different strategies people employed for this instance. And I'm glad my prompt to experiment with skills actually helped someone :)

To the OP: I can't deny that some classes/builds are better suited for this challenge than others, but I tried to balance it so it wouldn't be too bad for anyone. I actually mostly tested this event just walking, with no swiftness and no abilities. It's... harder, and sadly less fun, but it IS possible. The problem is if I tune it down any more, then it becomes boring with the use of any abilities. If people have more notes on classes that feel particularly difficult, though, it's good to know.

For people who found it easy - I'm curious if you are able to do it with the nuisance buff that causes her to shoot you more quickly. (You can get it by being the NIO when you enter the instance - just have the IO hang back while you challenge yourself. Full disclosure: that one might not be possible for some classes :P)

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Connor Fallon.9408 said:I just want to say that I really enjoyed reading about all the different strategies people employed for this instance. And I'm glad my prompt to experiment with skills actually helped someone :)

To the OP: I can't deny that some classes/builds are better suited for this challenge than others, but I tried to balance it so it wouldn't be too bad for anyone. I actually mostly tested this event just walking, with no swiftness and no abilities. It's... harder, and sadly less fun, but it IS possible. The problem is if I tune it down any more, then it becomes boring with the use of any abilities. If people have more notes on classes that feel particularly difficult, though, it's good to know.

For people who found it easy - I'm curious if you are able to do it with the nuisance buff that causes her to shoot you more quickly. (You can get it by being the NIO when you enter the instance - just have the IO hang back while you challenge yourself. Full disclosure: that one might not be possible for some classes :P)

Challenge accepted, sir!

[Rogue.4756]

I did the story on my reaper as well and big fat ZERO problems.

[Tsakhi.8124]

I did it on my Tempest, didn't get the achievements, but I did clear the mission. Dodge, Lightening Flash , Mist Form and some creative uses of the surroundings.