From the Ashes instance is unfair to some classes

[ReV.6097]

Fun to do the second time around.First time, I kinda rushed it and thought I'd be clever by summoning my Griffon, but she sniped the shizzle out of my flying mount lol.Was hoping there was an option to kill her at the end for all the hassle, instead :P

[Henri Blanche.8276]

There needs to be a way to bypass an encounter like this. Oh sure, no rewards, no achievements, no nothing. Other than being able to move on with the story.

[Thorgald.2485]

@Henri Blanche.8276 said:There needs to be a way to bypass an encounter like this. Oh sure, no rewards, no achievements, no nothing. Other than being able to move on with the story.

This, so much this! If A-net can't be bothered to construct a FAIR engagement then they should also give us the option to skip them.

@Warscythes.9307 said:Some instances will always favor some classes. Unless you want everything homogenized then this will always be a thing.

Not true, not even a little bit. ONLY true if you have too little experience designing things like this, or worse, can't be bothered..

[zealex.9410]

Whats unfair about the encounter?

[Astralporing.1957]

@zealex.9410 said:Whats unfair about the encounter?Read the thread for the answer.

[zealex.9410]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Whats unfair about the encounter?Read the thread for the answer.

I read that u can use mounts and with the endurance share mastery u can do the whole arena easily. If so do ppl not have choose not to use the mounts they have access to?

[Astralporing.1957]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Whats unfair about the encounter?Read the thread for the answer.

I read that u can use mounts and with the endurance share mastery u can do the whole arena easily.If that's what you read, then i suggest you should look again. There are posts that say more clearly what mounts can (and

can't

) do in that instance. You must have missed those.

Hint: it's neither whole arena, nor easily.

[coso.9173]

there are many bosses that favor classes with better armor or pets, compared to thief. like that battle against caudecus in a confined small space with lots of aoe's and other attacks, as a glass cannon thief, you run out of evades quick, since it's your only defense against them, and you have no pets to keep attacking it. it was a nightmare fight as a thief. there will always be quests and zones that will favor certian classes.

[Gehenna.3625]

@zealex.9410 said:Whats unfair about the encounter?Nothing's unfair about it. You actually have to pay attention to what you're doing a little and learn how to move across the open area. The first time I got there I died. Second time I won. Even got the timed achievement. I play a guardian in celestial gear without speed boosts. I'm sure it's easier to do it with speed boosts but it's not needed to do it. So it comes down to player skill.

And I won't say it's completely easy, it really is a bit tricky but what people mean when they say it's unfair to the classes, is that it's too hard for them to figure out how to do. I won't judge that but it's not about the classes, it's about the players. Of course nobody likes to admit they can't manage it. So let's just say that it's too hard for some people to do and then ArenaNet can see their metrics to measure how many people actually can't handle this fight. If it's enough it'll be nerfed, if not then a small number of players will have to learn to be better. Not a judgment, just where I feel things really stand.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I did it this morning, and missed the time achievement by a few seconds. Knowing now that trying to use mounts (or even the Griffon!) is a bad idea once she gets to position #2, I would certainly die less in a retry and therefore lose less time.

I did it as a Power GS Guardian. GS 3, Aegis, and Shield 5 helped me to avoid/block many of her shots. I was pressed for time so I played this more Leeroy than I should have, but I found it to be a challenging but not impossible instance fight.

But I also agree with many posters, on my Daredevil this fight would be cheese, even without resorting to stealth. Eat some Endurance regen food and you could probably bounce / SB 5 your way across the entire courtyard.

[Astralporing.1957]

@coso.9173 said:there are many bosses that favor classes with better armor or pets, compared to thief. like that battle against caudecus in a confined small space with lots of aoe's and other attacks, as a glass cannon thief, you run out of evades quick, since it's your only defense against them, and you have no pets to keep attacking it. it was a nightmare fight as a thief.Just spam pistols and run around him in circles. As long as you keep moving you should be perfectly safe.

[coso.9173]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@coso.9173 said:there are many bosses that favor classes with better armor or pets, compared to thief. like that battle against caudecus in a confined small space with lots of aoe's and other attacks, as a glass cannon thief, you run out of evades quick, since it's your only defense against them, and you have no pets to keep attacking it. it was a nightmare fight as a thief.Just spam pistols and run around him in circles. As long as you keep moving you should be perfectly safe.

it is what i did, but still you'll get an explosion to the face sometimes and thief has no defense, only evades, so once you're thrown away on the ground you'll most probably die for the damage you get before you can get up.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Thiazi.1250 said:

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:

@Thiazi.1250 said:Specifically, trying to move from cover-to-cover heavily favors classes with high mobility. I played through the story on my Reaper, and it felt incredibly unfun, because I had to make do with Summon Flesh Wurm/Necrotic Transversal, and Death's Charge (which costs precious life force that I need for the fights themselves, made worse by the poison gas). Meanwhile, a Thief could just spam Infiltrator's Arrow, and Mirages have Blink, Mimic, and Jaunt.

I understand that not much can be done to change it at this point, but please take things like this into account in designing future encounters.

This is incorrect. I did this on my Ranger, but I didn't use speed boost, swiftness, or anything else that might help. I did this exclusively by running at normal run speed and dodging appropriately and I got the achievement for not being shot on my first try. I then crashed right at the end and had to do it a second time. This time I was more careless, attempting to do it faster and I still only got shot twice. No big deal.

It's not incorrect though. My point isn't that it's impossible to do as a Reaper (I completed it), or even just running and dodging. My point is that some classes have tools that can make this instance much easier, while others don't.

This isn't me whining that it's too hard. I'm trying to point out that some classes are much better equipped to do this in others, which I believe should not be the case in story content. If it was a raid, fractal, a dungeon, or even just achievements, I wouldn't care. Those are good places to let classes play to their individual strengths. This, however, is the story, which is intended for pretty much everyone to play; having some classes with a huge advantage or disadvantage is bad design, in my opinion.

Honestly I feel like this is a good thing, we have a part in the story with a lot of movement so the mobile classes get to have their time to shine and feel good about it. Just like when other classes get to shine with AoE, or having tons of stab or near condi immunity etc.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Henri Blanche.8276 said:There needs to be a way to bypass an encounter like this. Oh sure, no rewards, no achievements, no nothing. Other than being able to move on with the story.@Thorgald.2485 said:This, so much this! If A-net can't be bothered to construct a FAIR engagement then they should also give us the option to skip them.

@zealex.9410 said:Whats unfair about the encounter?@"Astralporing.1957" said:Read the thread for the answer.

The thread offers examples of people who succeeded at the instance who don't consider themselves "good at games." In addition, anyone can use LFG to get help. Given that, how is the encounter "unfair"?

I hope it's obvious that ANet thinks the encounter is 'fair', otherwise they wouldn't have included it in the live version of the game. So it's important to be specific about why exactly "there needs to be a way to bypass" or what exactly "an encounter like this" means.

[NaramSin.2693]

You are right, but ANet did this in many other story instances, so nothing really changed, this is mainly due to a bad design, but to produce fun and engaging contents is not easy at all, I found LS4 one of the worst and boring ever, my opinion, maybe many of the designers that did this cr*p were fired recently for this reason :DI think they just made more difficult this kind of story because many toxic endgamers whined the story is too easy, so now You must do Your PERSONAL Story using LFG (a nonsense) a clever use of CM would be a better solution but this imply more work, more money, more effort and so on.Let's hope things will be better in the future, for now, just rush this horrendous story and leave it behind as soon as possible, maybe with the help of your guild mates or LFG, this is the sad real world for now.

[Celtich.6472]

im sorry but i played it today with the nuisance effect even tho it was my first time doing it on that character... this is impossible!!

 

[Xerxez.7361]

Did this Instance and all the associated achievements for this on my Reaper. Its really not hard and Reaper has access to a 24s &15s Swiftness so speed shouldn't be a problem.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Rush through with skyscale. Redone it on tempest, it's a kittening joke 5mins mission.

[FelidaeRyl.9147]

I'm trying to do it as a necro but after not playing for 2 years and still with some hand stiffness (one reason I stopped) and not being as good at these things or interested in repeating it loads, it's a pain. I've got halfway after a few tries, quit for now after a few more. Accessibility is a thing including easier modes or being skippable. Auto-run is a good point of accessibility, then an endless grind of some harder enemies just gives rsi.

Managed it after just a few more tries, I was glad to do it,  but it was a stress, draining, not the most fun feeling.

I don't know why this is confusing. I have some diabilities and they make a supposedly-fun game too hard to be fun. It's not hard to accommodate by design and let people enjoy playing.

Edited August 28, 2022 by FelidaeRyl.9147
Ambiguous 'confused' reaction.