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How are we supposed to use portal now?

SteepledHat.1345

By SteepledHat.1345
in Player vs. Player

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.

Yay! Now you can't just drop it at a point and instantly get a decap after the person standing on it leaves to go help their team.
Ranger
  1. Call of the Wild: This skill's fury duration has been split between game modes and will now use a 6-second duration in PvP while keeping its 10-second duration in other game modes.
  2. Moa Stance: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 25 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  3. Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects. The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  4. Griffon Stance: This skill is no longer instant and now evades for 1 second in addition to its current effects.
  5. Spirit Skills: Fixed a bug in which nature spirits could continue to apply effects to allies after they were defeated. The base health of spirits has been increased by 25%.
  6. Soften the Fall: Fixed a bug in which the muddy terrain that this trait creates could last much longer than the intended 10-second duration.
  7. Wilderness Knowledge: The duration of fury that this trait grants has been split between game modes. It now grants 4 seconds of fury in PvP and WvW while keeping a 6-second duration in PvE.
  8. Winter's Bite: The duration of weakness that this skill grants has been split between game modes. It now inflicts 4 seconds of weakness in PvP and WvW while keeping a 10-second duration in PvE.

There were 8 nerfs to ranger in this patch. 6 of them directly affected the meta boonbeast build. I think 33% damage reduction for 6 seconds is a fair enough tradeoff for the whopping 33% cooldown increase DS received.

Not to mention the whole DS damage doesn’t really change much since ranger could’ve done the same thing in boon beast by just running Guard before this, and we all know how often Guard was run.

Damage.png Damage Reduced: 33%Might (5s): 30 Power, 30 Condition DamageDuration: 6sRange: 600

vs.

Dolyak Stance: (6s): Reduce incoming damage while preventing movement-impeding conditions from being inflicted on you.Stability (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.Immobile Condition RemovedChilled Condition RemovedCrippled Condition RemovedBreaks Stun

There's a clear winner here. This isn't just about Dolyak's Stance's new effect but them effectively adding "Guard!" into Dolyak Stance which was already a best in slot skill everyone was running.

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Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.

Yay! Now you can't just drop it at a point and instantly get a decap after the person standing on it leaves to go help their team.
Ranger
  1. Call of the Wild: This skill's fury duration has been split between game modes and will now use a 6-second duration in PvP while keeping its 10-second duration in other game modes.
  2. Moa Stance: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 25 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  3. Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects. The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  4. Griffon Stance: This skill is no longer instant and now evades for 1 second in addition to its current effects.
  5. Spirit Skills: Fixed a bug in which nature spirits could continue to apply effects to allies after they were defeated. The base health of spirits has been increased by 25%.
  6. Soften the Fall: Fixed a bug in which the muddy terrain that this trait creates could last much longer than the intended 10-second duration.
  7. Wilderness Knowledge: The duration of fury that this trait grants has been split between game modes. It now grants 4 seconds of fury in PvP and WvW while keeping a 6-second duration in PvE.
  8. Winter's Bite: The duration of weakness that this skill grants has been split between game modes. It now inflicts 4 seconds of weakness in PvP and WvW while keeping a 10-second duration in PvE.

There were 8 nerfs to ranger in this patch. 6 of them directly affected the meta boonbeast build. I think 33% damage reduction for 6 seconds is a fair enough tradeoff for the whopping 33% cooldown increase DS received.

Not to mention the whole DS damage doesn’t really change much since ranger could’ve done the same thing in boon beast by just running Guard before this, and we all know how often Guard was run.

Damage.png Damage Reduced: 33%Might (5s): 30 Power, 30 Condition DamageDuration: 6sRange: 600

vs.

Dolyak Stance: (6s): Reduce incoming damage while preventing movement-impeding conditions from being inflicted on you.Stability (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.Immobile Condition RemovedChilled Condition RemovedCrippled Condition RemovedBreaks Stun

There's a clear winner here. This isn't just about Dolyak's Stance's new effect but them effectively adding "Guard!" into Dolyak Stance which was already a best in slot skill everyone was running.

Yeah, at the low low cost of a nearly 20s difference in CDs.

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@Durzlla.6295 said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.

Yay! Now you can't just drop it at a point and instantly get a decap after the person standing on it leaves to go help their team.
Ranger
  1. Call of the Wild: This skill's fury duration has been split between game modes and will now use a 6-second duration in PvP while keeping its 10-second duration in other game modes.
  2. Moa Stance: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 25 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  3. Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects. The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  4. Griffon Stance: This skill is no longer instant and now evades for 1 second in addition to its current effects.
  5. Spirit Skills: Fixed a bug in which nature spirits could continue to apply effects to allies after they were defeated. The base health of spirits has been increased by 25%.
  6. Soften the Fall: Fixed a bug in which the muddy terrain that this trait creates could last much longer than the intended 10-second duration.
  7. Wilderness Knowledge: The duration of fury that this trait grants has been split between game modes. It now grants 4 seconds of fury in PvP and WvW while keeping a 6-second duration in PvE.
  8. Winter's Bite: The duration of weakness that this skill grants has been split between game modes. It now inflicts 4 seconds of weakness in PvP and WvW while keeping a 10-second duration in PvE.

There were 8 nerfs to ranger in this patch. 6 of them directly affected the meta boonbeast build. I think 33% damage reduction for 6 seconds is a fair enough tradeoff for the whopping 33% cooldown increase DS received.

Not to mention the whole DS damage doesn’t really change much since ranger could’ve done the same thing in boon beast by just running Guard before this, and we all know how often Guard was run.

Damage.png Damage Reduced: 33%Might (5s): 30 Power, 30 Condition DamageDuration: 6sRange: 600

vs.

Dolyak Stance: (6s): Reduce incoming damage while preventing movement-impeding conditions from being inflicted on you.Stability (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.Immobile Condition RemovedChilled Condition RemovedCrippled Condition RemovedBreaks Stun

There's a clear winner here. This isn't just about Dolyak's Stance's new effect but them effectively adding "Guard!" into Dolyak Stance which was already a best in slot skill everyone was running.

Yeah, at the low low cost of a nearly 20s difference in CDs.

40 second cooldown is a low, low cost for a stunbreak, 33% reduction in ALL damage, stability, and immunity to movement impairing effects. It was best in slot before and it's best in slot now. Acting like a 10 second additional cooldown added to it in exchange for what it was and what it got like it's the end of the world and is this big build crushing nerf is ridiculous.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.

Yay! Now you can't just drop it at a point and instantly get a decap after the person standing on it leaves to go help their team.
Ranger
  1. Call of the Wild: This skill's fury duration has been split between game modes and will now use a 6-second duration in PvP while keeping its 10-second duration in other game modes.
  2. Moa Stance: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 25 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  3. Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects. The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  4. Griffon Stance: This skill is no longer instant and now evades for 1 second in addition to its current effects.
  5. Spirit Skills: Fixed a bug in which nature spirits could continue to apply effects to allies after they were defeated. The base health of spirits has been increased by 25%.
  6. Soften the Fall: Fixed a bug in which the muddy terrain that this trait creates could last much longer than the intended 10-second duration.
  7. Wilderness Knowledge: The duration of fury that this trait grants has been split between game modes. It now grants 4 seconds of fury in PvP and WvW while keeping a 6-second duration in PvE.
  8. Winter's Bite: The duration of weakness that this skill grants has been split between game modes. It now inflicts 4 seconds of weakness in PvP and WvW while keeping a 10-second duration in PvE.

There were 8 nerfs to ranger in this patch. 6 of them directly affected the meta boonbeast build. I think 33% damage reduction for 6 seconds is a fair enough tradeoff for the whopping 33% cooldown increase DS received.

Not to mention the whole DS damage doesn’t really change much since ranger could’ve done the same thing in boon beast by just running Guard before this, and we all know how often Guard was run.

Damage.png Damage Reduced: 33%Might (5s): 30 Power, 30 Condition DamageDuration: 6sRange: 600

vs.

Dolyak Stance: (6s): Reduce incoming damage while preventing movement-impeding conditions from being inflicted on you.Stability (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.Immobile Condition RemovedChilled Condition RemovedCrippled Condition RemovedBreaks Stun

There's a clear winner here. This isn't just about Dolyak's Stance's new effect but them effectively adding "Guard!" into Dolyak Stance which was already a best in slot skill everyone was running.

Yeah, at the low low cost of a nearly 20s difference in CDs.

40 second cooldown is a low, low cost for a stunbreak, 33% reduction in ALL damage, stability, and immunity to movement impairing effects. It was best in slot before and it's best in slot now. Acting like a 10 second additional cooldown added to it in exchange for what it was and what it got like it's the end of the world and is this big build crushing nerf is ridiculous.

So the new Dolyak Stance is essentially Mirage Cloak + Mirage Mantle + Elusive Mind on a 40x longer cooldown with some stability thrown in?

Taking into account MC + MM + EM is considered fine and balanced among most mesmer players, I'm okay with the nerfed + buffed Dolyak Stance. :^)

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Xstein.2187 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:Portal was insanely OP, good riddance.

Nerfing portal like this is like halving the range of thieve's Infiltrator's Arrow and Shadowstep. It's a lynch pin of the entire class just like those are for thief, had a very high skill ceiling that greatly rewarded smarter play, is responsible for the most exciting and interesting plays the class can make and in conquest history throughout the entire game mode. But people can't see beyond their nose of think of anything other than "Nerf mesmer."

You misunderstand me. I don't think Mesmer as a class needed much nerf, as far as I'm concerned condi mirage has been overrated since last balance update. But Portal itself has always been a BS skill and it's years overdue for a nerf.

Again, it's like saying Shadow Step and Infiltrator's Arrows are BS capabilities of thieves because it allows them to decap and rotate faster than anything else in the game and halving the range on both of those things. It completely steam roles the entire class's identity and their entire role in conquest all at once.Fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right, it is a false equivalence. Infiltrators arrow can give 12,600 units of distance in 72 sec ((72/6)+2)X900)=12,600). Portal gives 5,000 distance in 72 seconds. With infiltrators arrow providing around 252% more distance per 72 sec it's like comparing apples to grapes.

Infiltrator's Arrow can be used twice in a row and cover 1800 distance by the time the mesmer can travel 5000 meters through Portal.

Portal has a much, much stronger and impactful effect. Thus, it is on a longer cooldown. Please, don't make it seem like Infiltrator's Arrow is on the same level as Portal... LOL

"Mesmer mains" amirite xD

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:Portal was insanely OP, good riddance.

Nerfing portal like this is like halving the range of thieve's Infiltrator's Arrow and Shadowstep. It's a lynch pin of the entire class just like those are for thief, had a very high skill ceiling that greatly rewarded smarter play, is responsible for the most exciting and interesting plays the class can make and in conquest history throughout the entire game mode. But people can't see beyond their nose of think of anything other than "Nerf mesmer."

You misunderstand me. I don't think Mesmer as a class needed much nerf, as far as I'm concerned condi mirage has been overrated since last balance update. But Portal itself has always been a BS skill and it's years overdue for a nerf.

Again, it's like saying Shadow Step and Infiltrator's Arrows are BS capabilities of thieves because it allows them to decap and rotate faster than anything else in the game and halving the range on both of those things. It completely steam roles the entire class's identity and their entire role in conquest all at once.Fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right, it is a false equivalence. Infiltrators arrow can give 12,600 units of distance in 72 sec ((72/6)+2)X900)=12,600). Portal gives 5,000 distance in 72 seconds. With infiltrators arrow providing around 252% more distance per 72 sec it's like comparing apples to grapes.

Infiltrator's Arrow can be used twice in a row and cover 1800 distance by the time the mesmer can travel 5000 meters through Portal.

Portal has a much, much stronger and impactful effect. Thus, it is on a longer cooldown. Please, don't make it seem like Infiltrator's Arrow is on the same level as Portal... LOL

"Mesmer mains" amirite xD

You aren't counting the time it took for the mesmer to travel the 5000 difference to drop the Portal Entrance to Jump Trough in the first place. A meta thief can absolutely go from side to mid back to side almost as fast as a meta mirage using portal can do the same(About 5,000 units) and it can sustain that level of mobility for much longer where as that similar feat will leave Mirage completely drained of mobility.

Also, even people regarded as being excellent Mesmer / Mirage mains like Shorts admit they do their ladder climbing on thief because it just wins more than Mirage did even before the previous patch.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.

Yay! Now you can't just drop it at a point and instantly get a decap after the person standing on it leaves to go help their team.
Ranger
  1. Call of the Wild: This skill's fury duration has been split between game modes and will now use a 6-second duration in PvP while keeping its 10-second duration in other game modes.
  2. Moa Stance: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 25 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  3. Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects. The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
  4. Griffon Stance: This skill is no longer instant and now evades for 1 second in addition to its current effects.
  5. Spirit Skills: Fixed a bug in which nature spirits could continue to apply effects to allies after they were defeated. The base health of spirits has been increased by 25%.
  6. Soften the Fall: Fixed a bug in which the muddy terrain that this trait creates could last much longer than the intended 10-second duration.
  7. Wilderness Knowledge: The duration of fury that this trait grants has been split between game modes. It now grants 4 seconds of fury in PvP and WvW while keeping a 6-second duration in PvE.
  8. Winter's Bite: The duration of weakness that this skill grants has been split between game modes. It now inflicts 4 seconds of weakness in PvP and WvW while keeping a 10-second duration in PvE.

There were 8 nerfs to ranger in this patch. 6 of them directly affected the meta boonbeast build. I think 33% damage reduction for 6 seconds is a fair enough tradeoff for the whopping 33% cooldown increase DS received.

Not to mention the whole DS damage doesn’t really change much since ranger could’ve done the same thing in boon beast by just running Guard before this, and we all know how often Guard was run.

Damage.png Damage Reduced: 33%Might (5s): 30 Power, 30 Condition DamageDuration: 6sRange: 600

vs.

Dolyak Stance: (6s): Reduce incoming damage while preventing movement-impeding conditions from being inflicted on you.Stability (6s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.Immobile Condition RemovedChilled Condition RemovedCrippled Condition RemovedBreaks Stun

There's a clear winner here. This isn't just about Dolyak's Stance's new effect but them effectively adding "Guard!" into Dolyak Stance which was already a best in slot skill everyone was running.

Yeah, at the low low cost of a nearly 20s difference in CDs.

40 second cooldown is a low, low cost for a stunbreak, 33% reduction in ALL damage, stability, and immunity to movement impairing effects. It was best in slot before and it's best in slot now. Acting like a 10 second additional cooldown added to it in exchange for what it was and what it got like it's the end of the world and is this big build crushing nerf is ridiculous.

So the new Dolyak Stance is essentially
+
+
on a 40x longer cooldown with some stability thrown in?

Taking into account MC + MM + EM is considered fine and balanced among most mesmer players, I'm okay with the nerfed + buffed Dolyak Stance. :^)
  1. Boonbeast gets two dodge rolls, too and it has higher vigor up time than Mirage.
  2. Hit me up with Mirage Mantle gives Mirage -66% reduction of all incoming damage on a build that can straight up face tank and eat tons of damage. At least Spellbreaker needs to properly use it's active defensive capabilities to be survivable.
  3. Mesmers like myself have been pointing out something needed to be done about Mirage Cloak while CC'd and Elusive Mind because they're terrible for the game.
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BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

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Nerfing portal like this is like halving the range of thieve's Infiltrator's Arrow and Shadowstep. It's a lynch pin of the entire class just like those are for thief, had a very high skill ceiling that greatly rewarded smarter play, is responsible for the most exciting and interesting plays the class can make and in conquest history throughout the entire game mode. But people can't see beyond their nose of think of anything other than "Nerf mesmer."

You misunderstand me. I don't think Mesmer as a class needed much nerf, as far as I'm concerned condi mirage has been overrated since last balance update. But Portal itself has always been a BS skill and it's years overdue for a nerf.

Again, it's like saying Shadow Step and Infiltrator's Arrows are BS capabilities of thieves because it allows them to decap and rotate faster than anything else in the game and halving the range on both of those things. It completely steam roles the entire class's identity and their entire role in conquest all at once.Fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right, it is a false equivalence. Infiltrators arrow can give 12,600 units of distance in 72 sec ((72/6)+2)X900)=12,600). Portal gives 5,000 distance in 72 seconds. With infiltrators arrow providing around 252% more distance per 72 sec it's like comparing apples to grapes.

Infiltrator's Arrow can be used twice in a row and cover 1800 distance by the time the mesmer can travel 5000 meters through Portal.

Portal has a much, much stronger and impactful effect. Thus, it is on a longer cooldown. Please, don't make it seem like Infiltrator's Arrow is on the same level as Portal... LOL

"Mesmer mains" amirite xD

You aren't counting the time it took for the mesmer to travel the 5000 difference to drop the Portal Entrance to Jump Trough in the first place. A meta thief can absolutely go from side to mid back to side almost as fast as a meta mirage using portal can do the same(About 5,000 units) and it can sustain that level of mobility for much longer where as that similar feat will leave Mirage completely drained of mobility.

Also, even people regarded as being excellent Mesmer / Mirage mains like Shorts admit they do their ladder climbing on thief because it just wins more than Mirage did even before the previous patch.

You keep leaving out the fact that Mesmer can teleport their whole team 5000 units while said Thief cannot. That’s a very large omission, and let’s not forget that a portal that was drop on a point effectively guaranteed a decap or forced an opponent not to be in a team fight or pushing other points for 60 seconds, again large omissions it’s like someone didn’t know the full extent of uses outside of personal transport of the skill.

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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Nerfing portal like this is like halving the range of thieve's Infiltrator's Arrow and Shadowstep. It's a lynch pin of the entire class just like those are for thief, had a very high skill ceiling that greatly rewarded smarter play, is responsible for the most exciting and interesting plays the class can make and in conquest history throughout the entire game mode. But people can't see beyond their nose of think of anything other than "Nerf mesmer."

You misunderstand me. I don't think Mesmer as a class needed much nerf, as far as I'm concerned condi mirage has been overrated since last balance update. But Portal itself has always been a BS skill and it's years overdue for a nerf.

Again, it's like saying Shadow Step and Infiltrator's Arrows are BS capabilities of thieves because it allows them to decap and rotate faster than anything else in the game and halving the range on both of those things. It completely steam roles the entire class's identity and their entire role in conquest all at once.Fallacy of false equivalence.

You're right, it is a false equivalence. Infiltrators arrow can give 12,600 units of distance in 72 sec ((72/6)+2)X900)=12,600). Portal gives 5,000 distance in 72 seconds. With infiltrators arrow providing around 252% more distance per 72 sec it's like comparing apples to grapes.

Infiltrator's Arrow can be used twice in a row and cover 1800 distance by the time the mesmer can travel 5000 meters through Portal.

Portal has a much, much stronger and impactful effect. Thus, it is on a longer cooldown. Please, don't make it seem like Infiltrator's Arrow is on the same level as Portal... LOL

"Mesmer mains" amirite xD

You aren't counting the time it took for the mesmer to travel the 5000 difference to drop the Portal Entrance to Jump Trough in the first place. A meta thief can absolutely go from side to mid back to side almost as fast as a meta mirage using portal can do the same(About 5,000 units) and it can sustain that level of mobility for much longer where as that similar feat will leave Mirage completely drained of mobility.

Also, even people regarded as being excellent Mesmer / Mirage mains like Shorts admit they do their ladder climbing on thief because it just wins more than Mirage did even before the previous patch.

You keep leaving out the fact that Mesmer can teleport their whole team 5000 units while said Thief cannot. That’s a very large omission, and let’s not forget that a portal that was drop on a point effectively guaranteed a decap or forced an opponent not to be in a team fight or pushing other points for 60 seconds, again large omissions it’s like someone didn’t know the full extent of uses outside of personal transport of the skill.

I already talked extensively about the beneficial team play Portal has, which have been significantly impacted or damaged. I've never ignored the team capabilities of Portal and in fact exactly what I liked about it so much.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@reikken.4961 said:Portal was the most broken skill in pvp. Maybe it'll be balanced instead of mandatory now.

it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken

How does 30 seconds to go back to where you were equate to enormous power? You literally can't use it to defend. Mesmer's mobility is completely crippled. It's only use is a short range escape. Short range because you can only move so fast and get into a potential danger in 29 seconds.

It's literally useless now.

portal offers mobility for your entire team. It sounds like you didn't even realize just how strong portal is

Correction: Was. It's a worse Sand Swell snow

No it absolutely is 100% better than sand swell.

The duration nerf simply means that portal is now used to perform rotation jukes rather than simply being something that gets dumped on a node and forgotten about.

If you want to rotation juke and nothing else play a thief. They're infinitely better at that sort of thing now.

It's only useful with Medic-Portals and Portal Bombing enemy players now. So about 3/5's of it's potential uses have been completely gutted. And even Medic-Portalling is less effective because your ability to Portal teammates to safes paces has been gutted in half as you need the foresight to believe a fight you're about to engage in might go poorly, create a safe exit before engaging, engaging, and it's only useful if the fight goes south in less than 30 seconds which means most fights are going to look stable long after your portal runs out anyway.

Or you're rushing into a fight that is actively going south in the hopes of portaling people out as soon as you get there, in which case it's decidedly less useful than something like Merciful Intervention or Signet of Mercy so you might as well play a Firebrand and just do that better.

It's been Smiter's booned. It's no longer going to be run over running 2 out of the following 3, Arcane Thievery, Illusion Ambush, or Signet of Midnight with Blink still being mandatory. And without Portal at it's previous level of effectiveness there's no reason to run Mesmers of any kind including Mirage over far better side noders, namely Spellbreaker and especially a Boonbeast who are now the second coming of post Phantasm Rework Chronobunker now that they have on demand Double Protection and Double Protection but against condition damage.

But please lecture me some more about how I haven't talked about the team play with Portal. It's like someone didn’t read the full extent of the thread outside of literally the bottom post of the page.

Shadowpass is the one talking about racing Mesmers and thieves like it's a 1-1 thing when both utilize mobility in different ways, Mesmer can allow itself and people near them to effectively be in two places at once at the cost of having had to be where they want to put people previously in a burstier way. Thieves can go anywhere they want at much higher more sustained speeds than a Mesmer.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@"mortrialus.3062" said:Shadowpass is the one talking about racing Mesmers and thieves like it's a 1-1 thing when both utilize mobility in different ways, Mesmer can allow itself and people near them to effectively be in two places at once at the cost of having had to be where they want to put people previously in a burstier way. Thieves can go anywhere they want at much higher more sustained speeds than a Mesmer.

Actually, it was your fellow mesmer main that began comparing their mobility "like it was a 1-1 thing."

Of course, he also failed to mention the group utility and the fact that the portal could be taken back and forth 5000 meters each way.

@Xstein.2187 said:You're right, it is a false equivalence. Infiltrators arrow can give 12,600 units of distance in 72 sec ((72/6)+2)X900)=12,600). Portal gives 5,000 distance in 72 seconds. With infiltrators arrow providing around 252% more distance per 72 sec it's like comparing apples to grapes.

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Shadowpass is the one talking about racing Mesmers and thieves like it's a 1-1 thing when both utilize mobility in different ways, Mesmer can allow itself and people near them to effectively be in two places at once at the cost of having had to be where they want to put people previously in a burstier way. Thieves can go anywhere they want at much higher more sustained speeds than a Mesmer.

Actually, it was your fellow mesmer main that began comparing their mobility "like it was a 1-1 thing."

Of course, he also failed to mention the group utility and the fact that the portal could be taken back and forth 5000 meters each way.

@Xstein.2187 said:You're right, it is a false equivalence. Infiltrators arrow can give 12,600 units of distance in 72 sec ((72/6)+2)X900)=12,600). Portal gives 5,000 distance in 72 seconds. With infiltrators arrow providing around 252% more distance per 72 sec it's like comparing apples to grapes.

Look man, that dude accusing me of ignoring the team aspects of Portal when I have already talked about them in this thread is unfair and you know it. All I did was point out in a specific response to a specific post of yours saying of 1 click = 5000 units while a thief can only travel 1800 units in that time is unfair because it discounts the fact that the mesmer needed to be where they put the first portal down and then moved 500 units away.

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djoun.3425

djoun.3425

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Actually insane how spoiled mesmers are. Has the most broken skill in the game reduced from mandatory and they cry. And completely overlooking it was an universal nerf to almost everyone and overlooking alternatives;Even if portal actually was useless, which it isnt, u can still go full 1v1, triple utility and win every 1v1, including soulbeast. They had the option to do that before the patch too and ppl conciously ran portal anyways (they would still win with portal if the sb got unlucky with plasmas afaik, not 100% familiar with the matchup tho), which shows how broken portal and mesmer with portal was and how justified the nerf was.

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@djoun.3425 said:Actually insane how spoiled mesmers are. Has the most broken skill in the game reduced from mandatory and they cry. And completely overlooking it was an universal nerf to almost everyone and overlooking alternatives;Even if portal actually was useless, which it isnt, u can still go full 1v1, triple utility and win every 1v1, including soulbeast. They had the option to do that before the patch too and ppl conciously ran portal anyways (they would still win with portal if the sb got unlucky with plasmas afaik, not 100% familiar with the matchup tho), which shows how broken portal and mesmer with portal was and how justified the nerf was.

I'd rather have old portal duration and nerfed 1v1 potential to thief levels if I had a choice in the matter.

Triple 1v1 utility memsers should still probably not be taking fights against Boonbeasts. Before or after the patch.

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Airdive.2613

Airdive.2613

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I have to agree the nerf is unjustified. Assuming ANet wanted to nerf portal, there's still a number of ways it could be done without ruining the skill. Off the top of my head:

  1. Keep the current change but reduce the cooldown by at least those 30 seconds to allow more tactical use.
  2. Revert the change but give portal a longer cooldown. (This probably won't do much, but at least portals will feel less oppressive for the enemy team.)
  3. Revert the change but lower the active portal's duration to 5 seconds (just so you can't both neutralize the node and teleport back into the fight).
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DanAlcedo.3281

DanAlcedo.3281

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.

Does any class have access to what is effectively on demand double protection, let alone double protection and double condition damage protection? Like any physical support tempests were supposed to be real freaking big d support with their traited 40% protection damage reduction. And all added onto unambiguously the strongest side noder in the game.

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP.

While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused.

But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff.LOL @ people cherry picking one Soulbeast skill rework that gives a tiny bit more sustain at the expense of damage, and proclaiming the entire Soulbeast balance was a "buff."

GTFOH.

Double protection is "tiny"?

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Are people really arguing that portal was not busted?

New forum low.

About as busted as thief mobility or necromancers consistently being the kings of corrupting boons into conditions and consistently top tier team fighters.

So you are telling me Portal alone was on par with all of the mobility of thief and all of necros corruption?

Holy dhumm!Portal was more busted then i thought.

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whoknocks.4935

whoknocks.4935

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A good mesmer with below average teammates just using perfectly portal was able to carry an entire team if the enemy didn't have a mesmer or a mesmer with portal too in the specific.

Definitely it wasn't a skill that everyone could use at his best and benefit from it, but now we will see many many duelist mesmer running Illusionary Ambush, sword mainhand for mobility and the usual blink and midnight.New mesmers will born because how is will be to survive and play this way now that good players can't use portal anymore.

Before you couldn't run a mesmer build without portal if the enemy had a good mesmer with portal usage you were screwed already.

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daw.4923

daw.4923

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@mortrialus.3062 said:To put this into perspective, if you drop your portal exit on Waterfall and then run towards Graveyard at base movement speed, it takes you 15 seconds to reach mid. That's half your time to portal back just spent getting somewhere else with an objective. It's worthless now. Straight up Smiter's Booned. This needs to be reversed.

ye i see mirages WALKING whole game :DDDgeez if they had elite aka blink + blink + staff blink + jaunt or something. poor mesmers :/

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