An open and Honest View of the game and the community(may contain spoilers)

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:

There is a lack of real comment for the dev. them self who made each chose

they need to come out and say why they did the chose they made and the chose they did not make.

<--emphasis added.

This comment, quite honestly, took my breath away. Do you truly believe that developers should justify each decision? Should explain in detail why they did [one thing] and why they did not do [potentially countless alternatives]? Do you feel it would be productive to spend the many, many hours that would be required to discuss each of the changes they made? I am leery of such a process, especially when I know decisions are made based on dev observations, instincts, statistical analysis, extensive development and gaming experience, and an

consistent, overall view of the game

. (Keep in mind that few of us players truly view the game as a whole. As the OP said, we frequently want buffs for us, and nerfs for others.)

I believe that engaging with our players is good, and valuable, and highly desirable. I love it when we can post information about skill changes, as in the 12/11 update notes -- that's a great thing. I am delighted when a dev can get into a discussion on the forums, but I also know that devs read the forums more often than they post, and they keep up on player thoughts on a daily basis. But they need to develop, improve, hone, and expand the game, and I believe they post when they are able. But in the end, I believe they should spend the majority of their time and focus

making the game

and not

talking about making the game.

To do otherwise -- to get involved in the constant back-and-forth of explanation, question, justification, and counter-demand that the comment above appears to demand -- seems destined to lead to a complete lack of forward progress.

Yes and no. I agree that expectation for them to constantly patrol the boards and explain everything is totally unreasonable. But saying that it'd take too much time to post any degree of reasoning for the changes made raises some eyebrows. You mention the 12/11 patch, and you guys have been doing much better at getting to the "why" in the past few months than previous years, but some of the changes just don't really make a whole lot of sense. I look to the Necromancer as a prime example here - Vital Persistance - a quintessential Shroud trait especially for Death Shroud/Reaper Shroud which is part of the Shroud mechanic traitline - was given bonus healing. I'm left bewildered by this change considering you can't be healed in shroud. Except for Blood Magic. But then why is this trait in Soul Reaping? For Scourge? Why does Scourge need more selfish sustain over core necro and why again is it in SR over Scourge? I'm not here to criticize every decision in detail or go on a tirade, but this is far from the only questionable thing last patch alone.

I'd hope that when the devs meet to discuss changes, especially to professions, someone is keeping some kind of notes and there's a clear understanding of what needs to change and the logic behind those changes. That there's some debate and discussion and the likes that ultimately results in "OK, we're doing X and not Y for Z reasons," and I'd hope that said reasoning is being documented, considering otherwise your devs would potentially be running in circles and also having an inconsistent vision of the game, possibly also duplicating work and running into the same issues over time. It's really that kind of high-level reasoning that most people are looking for, not some kind of full-on analysis coming directly from those who implemented the changes themselves. Many of us are capable of running the numbers.

This is a snapshot of what Riot does and has done since their game launched nearly 10 years ago when they were a tiny company. It's literally just a dev quote with some high-level reasoning for the thinking, rather than going into detail of every nuance, the statistical analysis, and so on. It only needs to come out with the patch notes.https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-823-notes

If we look at Irenio's recent post on AG/Runes of Sanctuary, he nipped a ton of complaints and player frustration right in the bud, and gave a ton of people a good understanding that the developers are looking to find lasting solutions to these kinds of problems. Mind you, this is far from an expectation, but rather once seeing the basics of the rationale, the changes just made sense.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60708/rune-of-sanctuary-abrasive-grit/p1

It's a long explanation which I always love to see - and I have great respect for Irenio for taking the time to post as such - but also far above the minimum of what's necessary for the end-user to understand why things are changing; it can be summed up as:

"ICD on the rune means a small heal from another player (who you have no control over) could lock out your own big heal/barrier which is frustrating, so we didn't like that idea. Running the numbers, lfiesteal had basically little effect on its overall power, so nerfing that interaction would have gotten us nowhere. A heal-size threshold isn't really a fun idea to let all players contribute, and leaves us with a similar problem once people optimize for the rune."

If there are meeting minutes or notes about the decision, I doubt the above is much more than some adjusted wording and a few added words to make complete sentences.

The reasoning people want explanations is because there have been a LOT of inconsistencies relative to the core game that have been occurring basically since HoT landed. Old patch notes, design visions, class and elite spec descriptions, and dev interview videos explaining things from years' past have been downright contradicted, and nobody knows why or what to expect into the future. Is this change a stopgap for something else? Has the vision of something changed entirely? Do the devs see a bigger picture we don't, or are they missing something?

And from your position, this criticism should carry a lot of merit. Explaining the rationality for said changes also directly affects the feedback you're going to get and shapes how the community acts and responds to it. As of now, people are only complaining about the changes themselves and can only provide shot-in-the-dark suggestions based on their interpretation of what ANet should do or is trying to do. This leads to feedback that isn't focused on fixing an issue in alignment with past reasoning or general direction. It streamlines the forums and makes discussion healthier instead of people flaming each other for ideas that are based on personal biases more than what ANet would want to do. And as a consequence, it makes our community look better and more aware, rather than having any two people being virtually unable to agree to anything, while the devs have a third opinion.

I'm gonna say it straight up - everyone I know who has been invested in this game who has left, which is most of said people, have attributed it to design inconsistency/contradiction due to developer incompetence. I want to believe the latter half of that statement isn't true; you've got seriously smart and talented staff - but the former absolutely is from the player perspective, and the latter is definitely starting to feel that way when consistent problems are seemingly ignored and many of the changes that do come in don't exactly feel like they make much sense.

[Tasty Pudding.3764]

They had developer notes in GW1:

http://gw1101.gtm.guildwars.com/gameplay/developer_updates/

I know they sometimes try to give some insight in the normal GW2 patch notes, but I don't know why they stopped doing these separate explanations of intent.

[Aryan Arlande.6184]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

This comment, quite honestly, took my breath away. Do you truly believe that developers should justify each decision?

No.

This is your Job.

You're the chain between company and playerbase

[Dante.1763]

@Aryan Arlande.6184 said:

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

This comment, quite honestly, took my breath away. Do you truly believe that developers should justify each decision?

No.

This is your Job.

You're the chain between company and playerbase

thats a little excessive of a thing to throw at Gaile i believe. Unless the devs prepare a statement for her, which would amount to the same amount of their time being used on justifying their actions, as just posting them on the forums.

[Quartz.3462]

My background: Played since headstart on and off and returned a couple months back.

I'm really happy Anet made the big bold changes in the latest patch. They were really needed. I recently started doing fractals and made the mistake of putting my AR gear on a heal/support revenant. I couldn't get a T4 groups due to everyone wanting meta compositions. After the patch I was immediately accepted by a group and not kicked and even though my first T4 fractal was Mai Trin T4 we did it without any wipe. I was happy people gave me a chance. I've continued with T4 fractals and not had a single wipe so far. There's many more builds and I'm happy that the game in much more inclusive now.

I don't feel the devs should justify every decision they make since they will spend an endless time trying to do so and someone will always complain that they got it wrong because their profession got nerfed. The game is in the best position I've ever seen it and I'm happy to be playing it. I've seen lots of new players and people are friendly compared to most online games. I know I should be nicer and more supportive in game and hope to let others have a chance at content they're experiencing for the first time since I know it's daunting. I especially agree with the OP that we should not be toxic as a community and be open and friendly. I also agree that if you aren't having fun then you should take a break. It's a game after all.

[Draco.9480]

the problem is there are always problems with the balance. they fix 1 thing but break 5 more things and it make ridiculous compositions in raids and fractals which aren't fun. i understand the epi nerf and weaver nerf to balance out ok. but last one they made an unfinished balance patch which tried to fixed an issue but made a worse issue. now people will stack dps chronos which will do more dps and be on perma boons which isn't fun at all. if you start something to fix anet, fix it till the end. don't make half job and leave it be and wait for the community to lose their mind and then after getting enough responses you change things again to calm 'em down. you made bad decisions in the past with distortions, epidemic, broken eles with broken conjured weapons, insane power creeps etc. just make all the skills that share certain boons and buffs to party to be to 10 people like you did with banners, spirits etc. then you solve duplicating and stacking same classes. so we can get useful fb for quickness fury etc, useful chrono for sustaining boons and giving alac/quickness, useful rene to give alac resistance assassin presence etc. warr to give ea to 10 people. druid to give the boons of spirits to 10 people (spirit effects are to 10 but bonus boons aren't). stuff like this.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:

There is a lack of real comment for the dev. them self who made each chose

they need to come out and say why they did the chose they made and the chose they did not make.

<--emphasis added.

This comment, quite honestly, took my breath away. Do you truly believe that developers should justify each decision? Should explain in detail why they did [one thing] and why they did not do [potentially countless alternatives]? Do you feel it would be productive to spend the many, many hours that would be required to discuss each of the changes they made? I am leery of such a process, especially when I know decisions are made based on dev observations, instincts, statistical analysis, extensive development and gaming experience, and an

consistent, overall view of the game

. (Keep in mind that few of us players truly view the game as a whole. As the OP said, we frequently want buffs for us, and nerfs for others.)

I believe that engaging with our players is good, and valuable, and highly desirable. I love it when we can post information about skill changes, as in the 12/11 update notes -- that's a great thing. I am delighted when a dev can get into a discussion on the forums, but I also know that devs read the forums more often than they post, and they keep up on player thoughts on a daily basis. But they need to develop, improve, hone, and expand the game, and I believe they post when they are able. But in the end, I believe they should spend the majority of their time and focus

making the game

and not

talking about making the game.

To do otherwise -- to get involved in the constant back-and-forth of explanation, question, justification, and counter-demand that the comment above appears to demand -- seems destined to lead to a complete lack of forward progress.

Perhaps once reactions come out it would be good for the team to go into discussing why they made changes to those that tended to be the most controversial.EG. Mesmer Portal changes and the Mesmer Signet change caused a lot of uproar.Whilst I may not be a mesmer player, I can understand why these were controversial abilities and whilst I don't believe the anger and hatred people had was warranted, it would be nice to hear why certain changes occurred to commonly used abilities that do hold very heavy swing.

Even helping them understand by saying "This ability has seen great play in sPvP and while we think it is good, we are seeing it over perform and be considered a requirement and we don't want that to occur. We want to change it to bring it in line with the other abilities. That being said, we are monitoring what happens with the ability and if it needs further changes, we will look into it."

[Psientist.6437]

IfThose that can't do, teachperhapsThose that can't teach, critiqueandThose that can't critique, troll

I think everyone should practice not tearing down the studio and each other, learn about game design and philosophy and be conscious of the benefits and risks of sublimating. Practice playing as part of a symbiotic organism.

The studio does respond to players and sometimes that input hurts the game. I think most players would be surprised by how much the Trahearne effect decreases the potential for plot dimensions.

[Talindra.4958]

well said blackheartgary.8605 .. I am a bad reader but I couldn't believe that I actually read it all !! :pone thing I like to add is that -- it is okay for players to express how they feel about each balance patch .. how it affects their game play and "fun".. They are the player who spend most time on their character /profession, they can cry, scream, storm and let out their frustration on how they feel about the changes. I am sure the dev are ready and fully geared with armor and shield waiting to hear from players how they feel about the changes too. This is the voice they hear only when they put their model to a real life test. a model which they work on with many assumptions and it may not be the best solution and it might impact on certain players or a larger scale which they have not considered.
so i think when we see people making posts or saying how they are upset about a balance patch, we can say it is a positive response between dev and players. how the response is managed it will be another story and perhaps another balance patch to deal with .. I learnt too not to get too emotional on balance patch now and play the waiting game just like you said.

[Deaths.9165]

ANet concentrated himself on the new player base and forgot all about the veterans. Every aspect of the patches that are adressed 2018 is for new customers who are not fed up and are willing to pay for the stuff thats alrdy devloped. Every nerf was just their to bring veterans and new players at the same lvl so the new players could have a foodhold into the game. They just forgot one thing. If their is no new content, and at the same time the old ways are destroyed their wont be any motivation left. I wont build up an entire new set of items just to replay old content. Its just that simple. The last real content update was Ls4 ep1 Istani map. Everything afterwords was just a copy past with nothing new (even the story was just a copy past)

I still encourage new players to join gw2, but i dont see , why i should play gw2 anymore and at the same time help thouse new players with the old content.

At the same time this rune nerf came at a very wrong time. Half of my guild had new players who rushed themself with ascended item sets. ANd then the nerf came. All their efforts were gone in a night. SO basicly it took them months to build up a character to just end in nothing. If a games starts for them like tis they will just leave. ANd they did. My guild is inactive.

And i always said it. If it dosnt look in the surface like a item treatmeal. The balance patches are all a way of item treatmeals not many will accept.

So basicly ANet lost veteran players cause of lack of new content.And at the same time Anet lost new players cause of the nerf, Which were an item treatmeal.And their were no vet players left who could guide them trough this item treatmeal with less pain.

SO basicly its not the player base that is not encouraging any player to keep on with gw2. IT is like always a missmanagment and greed. They just wanted with low effort to much to fast.

[Hashberry.4510]

Plenty of uproar on the forums. I see very little complaint in game. The devs would surely be wasting their time having a conversation here.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@Deaths.9165 said:ANet concentrated himself on the new player base and forgot all about the veterans. Every aspect of the patches that are adressed 2018 is for new customers who are not fed up and are willing to pay for the stuff thats alrdy devloped. Every nerf was just their to bring veterans and new players at the same lvl so the new players could have a foodhold into the game. They just forgot one thing. If their is no new content, and at the same time the old ways are destroyed their wont be any motivation left. I wont build up an entire new set of items just to replay old content. Its just that simple. The last real content update was Ls4 ep1 Istani map. Everything afterwords was just a copy past with nothing new (even the story was just a copy past)

I still encourage new players to join gw2, but i dont see , why i should play gw2 anymore and at the same time help thouse new players with the old content.

At the same time this rune nerf came at a very wrong time. Half of my guild had new players who rushed themself with ascended item sets. ANd then the nerf came. All their efforts were gone in a night. SO basicly it took them months to build up a character to just end in nothing. If a games starts for them like tis they will just leave. ANd they did. My guild is inactive.

And i always said it. If it dosnt look in the surface like a item treatmeal. The balance patches are all a way of item treatmeals not many will accept.

So basicly ANet lost veteran players cause of lack of new content.And at the same time Anet lost new players cause of the nerf, Which were an item treatmeal.And their were no vet players left who could guide them trough this item treatmeal with less pain.

SO basicly its not the player base that is not encouraging any player to keep on with gw2. IT is like always a missmanagment and greed. They just wanted with low effort to much to fast.

Just because you had people who geared themselves up as changes were coming, that doesn't make it Anets fault. There will always be someone affected by changes, but they have to come eventually. In the end, it can end up being better for the game and usually is. Other times it can damage but Anet usually gets on that quick enough to repair what damage has been caused.

The rune nerf didn't come at a very wrong time in general, it came at a wrong time for people you knew. It's unfortunate but it is the way it is and if you have people who are willing to give up so quickly just because things had to change for the health of the game, well then they weren't going to stick around long anyway.

[Hashberry.4510]

This game really is not for folks who feel they must gear up immediately to ascended gear and play the latest, most difficult content. Those folks will always be disappointed here, I think. Not really their fault, I guess, but that is the game Anet sells.

[Jski.6180]

@Psientist.6437 said:IfThose that can't do, teachperhapsThose that can't teach, critiqueandThose that can't critique, troll

I think everyone should practice not tearing down the studio and each other, learn about game design and philosophy and be conscious of the benefits and risks of sublimating. Practice playing as part of a symbiotic organism.

The studio does respond to players and sometimes that input hurts the game. I think most players would be surprised by how much the Trahearne effect decreases the potential for plot dimensions.

I always think the ideal: Those who no longer can do, teach. The saying you used always bugged me and tends to be used as a mean of putting down teachers. Not a good way to think about the forms and the ppl on them.

These forms are the places to go to say what you think about things in game. You do NOT want ppl to start to ramble on in game about problems it kills the fun (i know far too well as i do rant in game it never works well). That means ppl who view strong one way or the other will post and post the counter ideal. This dose not invalidate the ppl posting it simply means they feel strong about there views.

[Deaths.9165]

Yeah u guys say that. If it is true what u guys say, then u guys are accepting the p2w behavior of gw2. Yes it is true.

We might not have a lvl upgrading. We might not have higher item tiers. But if we still have to set up an entiere new set of items cause of a patch like in a p2w game after a short time like 3 months. And we just have to keep up with farmings or need to buy gems for rl money to maintain our item sets. Then this behavior is p2w.

And new players are not dumb. Maybe after the first nerf they feel unlucky. After a second nerf they will just leave if nobody shows them how to handle the "slight" p2w charcter of gw2. Their are plenty of better p2w games on the market, who are rewarding the p2w playstyle better then gw2.

[Hashberry.4510]

A respec is p2w? Holy crap.

[Eddy Law.2874]

You know what the population metrics say about large games and forums when it comes to anger and complaints, right?

There's a reason devs aren't always concerned with bending over backwards when people post angrily on forums-- it's rarely ever as big of an issue as that handful of people are making it out to be. As many have observed-- forums are full of complaints; the game itself is not. The game is flourishing and populated. The important feedback is not the handful of angry people sitting on their phones making sweeping, uninformed accusations and threats. The important feedback comes in the form of logs. Are people still playing? Are less people playing this week than four weeks ago? Are new accounts being created? Are raids being run at a similar pace? Etc.

People are many, many times less likely to post that they are satisfied with the product they are playing than they are to post that they are unsatisfied. An angry player always thinks they speak for a majority of others, but they never have and never will.

When a game starts to actually die, it does so quietly and sadly-- not with an explosion of resentment and anger like you see on forums, and GW2 is widely recognized as the most playable MMO on the market right now from nearly every reputable and professional critic.

The status and health of a game is almost never indicated by what is said or argued about on forums. But it's so intoxicating and satisfying to post there and rant/let out your frustration. Devs know this, and they are interested in hearing some insight from frustrated players. But not to the level of importance as angry and frustrated players would like to believe.

For the most part, he cast majority of players adapt to changes. And yes, it is perhaps awkward and clunky to drastically change a class to the point where a lot of players feel like they need to change their set of armor completely every 3 to 6 months...but it's not making enough people actually stop playing for them to consider it an actionable problem. Trust me when I say that if they thought it was, they would take action. Most players see the game from one perspective-- only their own. Their hardships, and how they could be fixed. They do not think what other consequences would come about when a change is made that affects other aspects of the game. That's why devs want to hear your problems; not your solutions.

And it is not their responsibility to justify and explain all their decisions. They can, and they sometimes do, but they are not beholden to us to do so.

I liked this thread, thanks OP.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@"Deaths.9165" said:Yeah u guys say that. If it is true what u guys say, then u guys are accepting the p2w behavior of gw2. Yes it is true.

We might not have a lvl upgrading. We might not have higher item tiers. But if we still have to set up an entiere new set of items cause of a patch like in a p2w game after a short time like 3 months. And we just have to keep up with farmings or need to buy gems for rl money to maintain our item sets. Then this behavior is p2w.

And new players are not dumb. Maybe after the first nerf they feel unlucky. After a second nerf they will just leave if nobody shows them how to handle the "slight" p2w charcter of gw2. Their are plenty of better p2w games on the market, who are rewarding the p2w playstyle better then gw2.

I mean if they worked their way to ascended anyway, then respecing for them is easier than a new player who went and got all exotics especially if those exotics are expansion exotics that you can't buy for cheap off the market. Or if someone got their gear by grinding out PvP and WvW tracks.

They didn't get the short end of the stick and not every change results in changing your build.Even with all the changes to abilities and traits, my characters gear doesn't get changed unless I want to fill a certain role with it.

This doesn't make the game Pay To Win in any way. It simply is a part of the way MMO's can allow you get gear.

[Deaths.9165]

Guild Wars 2 facebook page.

Anet is asking for ppl to work on gw2 wiki. Especially on LS4 ep4. They have even made some ingame rewards.

Wait who was working on the wiki pages. The new customers. The causual paying customers. I am so thoughtless sry.

Welcome to the reality.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm confused; what has editing the Wiki to do with pay-to-win or laments about balance patches?
Of course the articles that need the most work are those concerning new content or changes to the game.

[Jski.6180]

It comes down to this as long as you lock effects with classes with out giving the player the ability to swap classes on the same hero balancing and the community will always fall into the trap of meta only classes that makes every thing significantly more toxic. There is no amount of positively that will charge these hard cold facts of what its like to play a class of have not vs a class of have.

[Zelanard.5806]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:

There is a lack of real comment for the dev. them self who made each chose

they need to come out and say why they did the chose they made and the chose they did not make.

<--emphasis added.

This comment, quite honestly, took my breath away. Do you truly believe that developers should justify each decision? Should explain in detail why they did [one thing] and why they did not do [potentially countless alternatives]? Do you feel it would be productive to spend the many, many hours that would be required to discuss each of the changes they made? I am leery of such a process, especially when I know decisions are made based on dev observations, instincts, statistical analysis, extensive development and gaming experience, and an

consistent, overall view of the game

. (Keep in mind that few of us players truly view the game as a whole. As the OP said, we frequently want buffs for us, and nerfs for others.)

I believe that engaging with our players is good, and valuable, and highly desirable. I love it when we can post information about skill changes, as in the 12/11 update notes -- that's a great thing. I am delighted when a dev can get into a discussion on the forums, but I also know that devs read the forums more often than they post, and they keep up on player thoughts on a daily basis. But they need to develop, improve, hone, and expand the game, and I believe they post when they are able. But in the end, I believe they should spend the majority of their time and focus

making the game

and not

talking about making the game.

To do otherwise -- to get involved in the constant back-and-forth of explanation, question, justification, and counter-demand that the comment above appears to demand -- seems destined to lead to a complete lack of forward progress.

While I agree with you, that it's complete idiocy to have the devs justify everything they do and throw their time away on things that aren't worth their while. It can get really dull to try to engage on the forums with suggestions and thoughts, meant for the developers inspiration, it can even get to the point of being discouraging, because we don't get a notice of any sort, of whether our voices are heard, until something happens in the game.A simple notice, a red dot lighting up on a post when a dev Read's it, or something akin to that, would be plenty to satisfy peoples wish to be heard. Direct engagement isn't needed as bad as a visualization of "A dev read this message".

BUT, And correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it Arenanet's policy to respect the players time and efforts in the game? Isn't it on this policy, that you argued that you wont add more levels to the game? And on this this policy, that you added the mastery system?On that regard, though, I must also say that when you're rolling out updates that force people to create new gear, at a rate where they cant keep up, you're working against this policy.Whether the balances are good or not, no longer matter. You don't have to justify them at all, because it's gotten to the point where the overwhelming frequency of major balance patches, are worse than the imbalances.

There's solutions to the issue though. Screw all the explanations, you could spit out as many balance patches as you'd want, without breaking the aforementioned policy, if not for the attributes and upgrade components being locked to the gear.You could for instance move the gears attributes (in the form of dowels and insignia) and upgrade components to an attribute panel in the wardrobe so that once unlocked, you wouldn't have to worry about it any more.But! What about the legendary gears advantage!? If legendary gear need an advantage, place it somewhere else. Add an additional enrichment slot to it or something. Be creative, you're good at that. ;)

Reworking gear, get expensive. It cost's a lot of gold and time and that is multiplied by the amount of characters you're playing. I am not saying this is THE solution. But there's a need for a solution that wont force you to justify your modifications to the game, while at the same time respecting the time and effort we're throwing into it, in accordance with your own policy.

EDIT: GOOOOSH I've wanted to say that for too long :lol:

[Ashen.2907]

I dont mind having to regear or rebuild. Its part of the MMO experience IMO. I enjoy buildcraft so it can even be fun under the right circumstances. But without solid WHYs to go along with the WHATs of some changes, some significant insight into the thought process and/or goal for major changes, it is entirely too easy to perceive of said changes being more driven by profit than an attempt to genuinely improve the players' experience. Changes that seem arbitrary, or capricious, because players see the cost to themselves (generating revenue for ANet) without an insight into how they will benefit can give a very negative impression of the actual motive for the changes in question. Of course the company needs to make money, but giving the impression that this is intended to be at the expense (in the negative sense of the word) of the players rather than as a result of providing a benefit to the players is dangerous.

[sorudo.9054]

@mauried.5608 said:Why do people play games they DONT like ?

the question is more, why is the game changed so that it isn't fun anymore?they add allot of stuff but in the end it still feels empty, before they catered to hardcore players and looked more at making the world exiting i had allot of fun.believe me, i love to play this game more often but when they make the boring stuff important and abandon fun things you can't really blame the players anymore.

[sigur.9453]

@sorudo.9054 said:

@mauried.5608 said:Why do people play games they DONT like ?

the question is more, why is the game changed so that it isn't fun anymore?they add allot of stuff but in the end it still feels empty, before they catered to hardcore players and looked more at making the world exiting i had allot of fun.believe me, i love to play this game more often but when they make the boring stuff important and abandon fun things you can't really blame the players anymore.

OH yeah, so much content for hardcore players. They should definitely make more for the casual playerbase. Too much fokus on raids, fraktals, wvw and pvp. - nobody