Acquiring Winters Presence Snow Skin

[arukAdo.2047]

Its obvious they didnt think about it, or forgot about it, and its not just about snowfall rune, the mischief sigil is the same problem, its not 10g but 8g each, yesterday doing those 2 forge recipe was costing over 1000g, while both super rare infusion are costing less than this (its not the same visual effect, yet they are rare festival loot), basicly it makes the winter presence more costly and harder to get than nightfury, unlike for halloween its not just a gold wall, you still have to do many achiv and drink 10k booze, the whole thing make no sence whatsoever, plz fix this

Edit: an easy solution is to replace superior with minor in the recipes, those are sold for karma by the vendor

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The year Winter's Presence came out, it cost around 900-1300 gold to make. It costs 900 or so this year. The first year, the cost was mostly drink, 10000 of them. This time, it's the sigils & runes. Last year, there was literally no incoming supply of the rune (the sigil dropped from gifts, but at an infusion-like rate). This year, you can make as many as you like. (And there's no time limit on the rune, sigil, or drinks part of the collection.)

It's a premium skin with a premium cost; it's meant to be something that only some of us can choose to get.

I'm not saying that ANet's choice here was necessarily good. I'm saying it's also not necessarily bad.

[arukAdo.2047]

900g... you mean if you had to buy all the booze... but we all do get booze from the gifts so nobody had to pay thatbut now everybody has to buy those sigils/runes, some might be able to craft them, im not sure the cost of that but its probly pretty high alsoit doesnt matter how prenium something is, what is obviously annoying is to increase the value of a festival reward by a thousand gold, its not just middly annoying, it make the whole thing impossible to casuals, its just how it is, and its easly fixable, it would still be quite a commitment to get the skin, it would be about the same than others had the others years, right now its straight impossible

[Chay.7852]

Well, not all of us have time (and enjoy) to farm to get the 10k min of booze. I too got winter's presence in the first year, not during the event but later in September or so and payed for the beverages needed to finish the achievement about 700 gold. As mentioned above, it's premium... Something you can work toward to get.P. S. Back then we didn't have the "consume all" feature - I remember the long click - sessions, until I changed double click to scroll down on my mouse to finish this achievement

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Every single year some players find this particular item vexing. This year is no different. It's always been time-consuming, costly, or both.

[kharmin.7683]

Would a mod please merge all of the current Winters Presence complaint threads to make it easier for people to find them and not post new ones?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63561/acquiring-winters-presence-snow-skin#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63572/winters-presence#latest

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Its fine where its at for being a special skin. Its inline with night fury, which cost about the same to craft. The runes/sigil are craftable now so in a way you dont have to pay for them, just grind the mats. But until then ill craft them and you can buy.

[Gambino.2109]

@"Trise.2865" said:"Dear ArenaNet:Long-term, high-end goals are not instantly available to me for buying the game. Plz nerf."

Exactly because it didn't start off that way to begin with.. I got it on the second winters day and payed no more than 40 gold for everything. How is that fair to everyone else... HUH? HUH? Yeah it's what I thought

[Cirrion.8951]

@arukAdo.2047 said:900g... you mean if you had to buy all the booze... but we all do get booze from the gifts so nobody had to pay thatbut now everybody has to buy those sigils/runes, some might be able to craft them, im not sure the cost of that but its probly pretty high alsoit doesnt matter how prenium something is, what is obviously annoying is to increase the value of a festival reward by a thousand gold, its not just middly annoying, it make the whole thing impossible to casuals, its just how it is, and its easly fixable, it would still be quite a commitment to get the skin, it would be about the same than others had the others years, right now its straight impossible

It doesn't matter if you farmed the drinks or bought them, they still cost the same. The cost for WP has been fairly steady year over year, all that has changed is the specific component that is the gold sink.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"arukAdo.2047" said:900g... you mean if you had to buy all the booze... but we all do get booze from the gifts so nobody had to pay thatEveryone 'paid'. The gifts were and are worth money; the fact that you chose to open meant you chose the drink in front of you over the three in the bush on the TP. In fact, it ultimately cost extra if one decided to open instead of sell the gifts and buy what one needed.

but now everybody has to buy those sigils/runes, some might be able to craft them, im not sure the cost of that but its probly pretty high alsoI took that into account in comparing the first year costs to this year's.

it doesnt matter how prenium something is,Of course it matters. You don't think it should matter that much (for reasons you state below) and that's fine, but let's not pretend as if this isn't a detailed skin, with particle effects. In fact, if it wasn't premium, this thread wouldn't exist; people wouldn't be all that bothered by its availability or lack thereof.

what is obviously annoying is to increase the value of a festival reward by a thousand gold,But the value didn't increase. You just don't agree that it's okay to fund it by selling gifts and buying runes|sigils.

its not just middly annoying, it make the whole thing impossible to casuals,It's always been impossible for casuals. If you got all your drinks from opening gifts in the first two years, then you'd have needed to open about 125k presents. That's not anything a "casual" player could manage.

its just how it is, and its easly fixable, it would still be quite a commitment to get the skin, it would be about the same than others had the others years, right now its straight impossibleIt's not impossible; you just don't like the current method of acquisition compared to that of the first year

[Ayakaru.6583]

Grind the gold like the rest of skritt,Shinies don't come easy

[Ashantara.8731]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:If you are someone overly hung up about the need to obtain all the items yourself then that is a tentative yes.

What does it have to do with "being someone who's hung up on [...]". This is not about preferences, it's about options. And the currently smart option to go with is crafting - it doesn't matter "what you like", it only matters that you achieve your goal the best possible way - and this is it.

Oh sure you and I might think that but if you hang around here and/or reddit enough you should have seen the "I don't care if it is 10x more expensive! I want to be able to get everything myself instead of any sort of interaction with the TP!!!!".

Which is exactly what I have been promoting in my responses: crafting is currently the best (i.e. fastest and cheapest) way.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:If you are someone overly hung up about the need to obtain all the items yourself then that is a tentative yes.

What does it have to do with "being someone who's hung up on [...]". This is not about preferences, it's about options. And the currently smart option to go with is crafting - it doesn't matter "what you like", it only matters that you achieve your goal the best possible way - and this is it.

Oh sure you and I might think that but if you hang around here and/or reddit enough you should have seen the "I don't care if it is 10x more expensive! I want to be able to get everything myself instead of any sort of interaction with the TP!!!!".

Which is exactly what I have been promoting in my responses: crafting is currently the best (i.e. fastest and cheapest) way.

The people to whom you respond don't think it's sufficient. Their claim is that the symbols & charms required cannot be obtained except through the TP. They claim that the drop rates are too low, so that they'll never be able to collect enough. You ( @Ashantara.8731) are correct that crafting the runes|sigils is faster today than waiting for drops from presents is (or was last year even), but it's still not fast, if you aren't buying charms|sigils from the TP.

(I don't happen to agree; I think the claims are misleading. I just want to make sure that the argument is clear: this part isn't just about cost, it's about time spent in direct acquisition of materials.)

[Ashantara.8731]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Which is exactly what I have been promoting in my responses: crafting is currently the best (i.e. fastest and cheapest) way.

The people to whom you respond don't think it's sufficient. Their claim is that the symbols & charms required cannot be obtained except through the TP.

While that is true, it is still cheaper than byuing the sigils per se, no? ;)

We had to buy the sigils back when crafting was not an option, so in any case, it is a somewhat expensive endeavor. The OP's claim that this an impossible endeavor (I see they have edited their original post by now) is still untrue.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Randulf.7614 said:Craft them

Still expensive. To make the 50 sigils and 50 runes you will need 100 mystic coins (140 gold), 750 ectos (150 gold) and 100 charms and 100 symbols (550 gold). That's already well over 800 gold for just those two items. Then there's the other item that will add another 50 mystic coins and then you need to start the boozing still which easily costs over 100 gold. So it's really still expensive.

I got it because I decided to buy 2000 gems and turned it into gold. Merry X-mas to me :grin:

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Which is exactly what I have been promoting in my responses: crafting is currently the best (i.e. fastest and cheapest) way.

The people to whom you respond don't think it's sufficient. Their claim is that the symbols & charms required cannot be obtained except through the TP.

While that is true, it is still cheaper than byuing the sigils per se, no? ;)

We had to buy the sigils back when crafting was not an option, so in any case, it is a somewhat expensive endeavor.

Yes, I agree with you that the costs are down and more controllable now. But that isn't the argument to which you were responding: it's not just the cost; it's also the time spent if you want to farm everything on your own.

The OP's claim that this an impossible endeavor (I see they have edited their original post by now) is still untrue.Yes, it's no more impossible now than it was when it first came out. (I'd argue it's even easier now.)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Gehenna.3625 said:I got it because I decided to buy 2000 gems and turned it into gold. Merry X-mas to me :grin:Congratulations!

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Craft them

Still expensive. To make the 50 sigils and 50 runes you will need 100 mystic coins (140 gold), 750 ectos (150 gold) and 100 charms and 100 symbols (550 gold). That's already well over 800 gold for just those two items. Then there's the other item that will add another 50 mystic coins and then you need to start the boozing still which easily costs over 100 gold. So it's really still expensive.

Current costs, according to GW2 efficiency are:

• ~960 gold, if crafting the runes & sigils
• ~977 gold if purchasing everything from the TP

TP Shopping List

! 50x Sealed Package of Snowballs @ 3.69s =1.84g! 150x Mystic Coin @1.2g = 176g! 50x Choir Bell @2c = 1s! 50x Superior Sigil of Mischief @6.1g = 303g! 50x Superior Rune of Snowfall @7.4g = 371g! 10000x Mug of Eggnog @1.24s = 124g! 425x Snowflakes @66c =2.8g! 1x each Snowglobe, Refurbished Toy, Winter Music Score, Blueprint for Winter's Presence, Champion's Snowball, Icy Aura! * 50x Obsidian Shard

Dulfy's original guide still notes drinking as the most expensive part. 10000 drinks at 8-12s each was 800-1200 gold, without considering any other costs. Now, it's 200 gold on a bad day.

Again, whether you farm all the items yourself or buy off the TP, the value of the materials used doesn't change (only our perception of the cost changes).

[Khisanth.2948]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Craft them

Still expensive. To make the 50 sigils and 50 runes you will need 100 mystic coins (140 gold), 750 ectos (150 gold) and 100 charms and 100 symbols (550 gold). That's already well over 800 gold for just those two items. Then there's the other item that will add another 50 mystic coins and then you need to start the boozing still which easily costs over 100 gold. So it's really still expensive.

I got it because I decided to buy 2000 gems and turned it into gold. Merry X-mas to me :grin:

Where do you see mystic coins being used in crafting the sigil or rune?

[Randulf.7614]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Craft them

Still expensive. To make the 50 sigils and 50 runes you will need 100 mystic coins (140 gold), 750 ectos (150 gold) and 100 charms and 100 symbols (550 gold). That's already well over 800 gold for just those two items. Then there's the other item that will add another 50 mystic coins and then you need to start the boozing still which easily costs over 100 gold. So it's really still expensive.

I got it because I decided to buy 2000 gems and turned it into gold. Merry X-mas to me :grin:

Where do you see mystic coins being used in crafting the sigil or rune?

I assume they were confuing it with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnanimous_Obsidian_Crystal which is a diff part of the colelction to the rune/sigil

[CJH.2879]

I was looking forward to finishing winter's presence this xmas, however after working my way through the final achievements i got to the part of the 10 k holiday drinks & making the final 3 things in the forge and my jaw dropped literally, at this point it looks like it'll be yet another year before i finally finish this thing due to the cost of it all. I will admit I do find it a little unfair how friends of mine managed to already make it when the prices were still more reasonable on the items needed & now even they admit everything has gotten very expensive compared to when they did it. Quite honestly I don't find this fair at all... those whom waited are now seemingly being punished, sigh, merry xmas anet.... merry xmas..... =(

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@CJH.2879 said:I will admit I do find it a little unfair how friends of mine managed to already make it when the prices were still more reasonable on the items needed & now even they admit everything has gotten very expensive compared to when they did it.

It's cheaper now, overall, then when it was first released. A lot cheaper. I think the lowest total cost I ever saw was maybe around 750g total, but that was buying everything off-season. During the first Wintersday of its release, costs were closer to 1100-1200 gold (and at times, if you bought at the worst times, it might have been 1600 gold).

Mystic coins cost more, the sigils|runes cost more now. But the drinks ... the drinks are available (1.2s or less) for under 10% of the best price I got for them originally (over 14 silver each).

tl;dr your friends didn't get it for a lot less; they just are remembering some of the costs, not all of them.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Craft them

Still expensive. To make the 50 sigils and 50 runes you will need 100 mystic coins (140 gold), 750 ectos (150 gold) and 100 charms and 100 symbols (550 gold). That's already well over 800 gold for just those two items. Then there's the other item that will add another 50 mystic coins and then you need to start the boozing still which easily costs over 100 gold. So it's really still expensive.

I got it because I decided to buy 2000 gems and turned it into gold. Merry X-mas to me :grin:

Where do you see mystic coins being used in crafting the sigil or rune?

Sorry, the mystic coins are needed afterwards as part of the mystic toilet recipe to craft the items you need the sigils and runes for. So they're not part if this recipe but are part of the mystic toilet recipe

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:But that isn't the argument to which you were responding: it's not just the cost; it's also the time spent if you want to farm everything on your own.

I see. Well, that would be true then for everything regarding sigils (and runes), not just Winter's Presence. So I don't see how that poses an issue to some when that's how the game has worked for ages regarding materials and crafting. If they had stuck to the old ways, you couldn't even farm the materials for the sigils as they weren't craftable, hence wouldn't have had any chance on "doing it all by yourself" to begin with.

Yes, it's no more impossible now than it was when it first came out. (I'd argue it's even easier now.)

Indeed. :)

[Gehenna.3625]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Craft them

Still expensive. To make the 50 sigils and 50 runes you will need 100 mystic coins (140 gold), 750 ectos (150 gold) and 100 charms and 100 symbols (550 gold). That's already well over 800 gold for just those two items. Then there's the other item that will add another 50 mystic coins and then you need to start the boozing still which easily costs over 100 gold. So it's really still expensive.

I got it because I decided to buy 2000 gems and turned it into gold. Merry X-mas to me :grin:

Where do you see mystic coins being used in crafting the sigil or rune?

I assume they were confuing it with

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnanimous_Obsidian_Crystal

which is a diff part of the colelction to the rune/sigil

Yeah correct. It's part of what comes next, but it's therefore still part of the cost to get the winter's presence.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Ashantara.8731" said:I don't see how that poses an issue to some when that's how the game has worked for ages regarding materials and crafting. If they had stuck to the old ways, you couldn't even farm the materials for the sigils as they weren't craftable, hence wouldn't have had any chance on "doing it all by yourself" to begin with.

Sure, all true. But again, since you aren't the sort of person who cares about acquiring all the components on your own, the difference for you is (ahem) immaterial.

If you're familiar with "extra" gaming challenges that some people impose upon themselves, you might have heard of "Iron Man:" if your character dies, you have to reroll. (It's a nod to old school games in which that happened automatically; the "resurrection" mode that we're so used to came later to RPGs.) There's a variant of that called, "Life off the Land," in which you aren't allowed to use gold; the only gear you get is what the game drops for you randomly or what you can make on your own.

To me, that's like choosing to use a flip phone instead of a smart one or returning to AoL dial-up instead of using fiber. But, well, it's the player's choice. The confusion stems from people feeling that the game ought to support that choice better, even though (as you point out), it never has because it was designed not to.