Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 144
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Delivering stimulating, interesting and varied content will be the key driver for retaining veterans. Veterans by their very name and nature stick around because they want to be around.

A wvw veteran is unlikely to care about this system when deciding to buy gems or stay playing. They will care about the development of their mode. If WvW were to never get updates again (and its been a huge drought for them already), this system would be defunct for them. Same for raiders, pvpers and so forth

I'm not trying to pour water on your suggestion because at its core it has some truth to it, but a whole new system dedicated to rewrading players based on utterly arbitrary milestones (inclusive of your edit) is not the answer. For something like this, they could change the daily system to add extra rewards per year of account. Or perhaps rework the achievement system to be a bit more relevant and consistent at delivery rewards.

But as someone you specifically are aiming at with your system, this would do nothing to improve my further retention whatsoever.

“Delivering stimulating, interesting and varied content will be the key driver for retaining veterans.”

Are you saying that rewards are not a key component in that above equation?

New rewards alongisde new content are about improving depth of gameplay. Introducing a new currency (which players would be unhappy about given the complaints about more currencies) just to buy old stuff doesn't seem likely to help with retention.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anet I'm sure has all of the statistics on players and retention. They alone would best know what they deliver will keep veteran players logging in. Or, perhaps, ANet is more concerned with bringing in new players who might well purchase more content/gems than the veterans (who convert gold->gem) that would keep the servers running and light on. Again, only ANet knows for sure.

Having said that, my opinion is that the suggestion by the OP could lead to elitism in the player base. This might run counter to the perception that GW2 is a casual-friendly game and may keep new players from deciding to try (and eventually buy) the game. In this scenario, the game would die out with veterans not contributing enough financially for ANet to keep the game breathing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@yoni.7015 said:I am a veteran myself and I don’t need this. I would prefer to have resources spent on content and not on this “reward system”

Are you saying that you’d not prefer a reward system to increase retention among other veteran players of the game? You do know there are paid devs who handle rewards and such right? Do you think the devs try to figure out ways to keep players playing? Do you know that rewards are a big factor in retention? Do you not care about the veteran class?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Delivering stimulating, interesting and varied content will be the key driver for retaining veterans. Veterans by their very name and nature stick around because they want to be around.

A wvw veteran is unlikely to care about this system when deciding to buy gems or stay playing. They will care about the development of their mode. If WvW were to never get updates again (and its been a huge drought for them already), this system would be defunct for them. Same for raiders, pvpers and so forth

I'm not trying to pour water on your suggestion because at its core it has some truth to it, but a whole new system dedicated to rewrading players based on utterly arbitrary milestones (inclusive of your edit) is not the answer. For something like this, they could change the daily system to add extra rewards per year of account. Or perhaps rework the achievement system to be a bit more relevant and consistent at delivery rewards.

But as someone you specifically are aiming at with your system, this would do nothing to improve my further retention whatsoever.

“Delivering stimulating, interesting and varied content will be the key driver for retaining veterans.”

Are you saying that rewards are not a key component in that above equation?

New rewards alongisde new content are about improving depth of gameplay. Introducing a new currency (which players would be unhappy about given the complaints about more currencies) just to buy old stuff doesn't seem likely to help with retention.

You can word it how you want, but rewards are a big retention tool.

We get new currencies all the time, and that won’t stop.

You really can’t downplay rewards as “old stuff”.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:But this system would not be the answer.

and how do you know that?

For the reasons I already mentioned in an earlier post.

Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?

Content that is repeatable and worth doing over and over because it's fun and rewarding.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Swagger.1459 said:Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

You think that people stop playing because the game isn't rewarding them and not because people lose interest in what the game offers?It's really difficult to retain members from any organization, regardless of its purpose. Of the many veterans I know who stopped playing or play less than they they used to, not a single one left because the game failed to reward them more for being a veteran: they changed jobs, changed relationships, found newer games, found other hobbies, and in a lot of cases, just found that 1 new story every 3 months wasn't enough to keep their interest.

Besides that, Veterans already get rewarded with AP chests, birthday presents, and simply being able to work on both the latest collections as well as "backfill" the old ones.

I'm not at all against ANet increasing the later AP rewards (even if it's not retroactive). But neither do I think it will have any noticeable effect on veteran attrition.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?Content that is repeatable and worth doing over and over because it's fun and rewarding.Yup, content (that people enjoy) matters more than rewards. (People can stomach paltry rewards if they have stuff they like doing; people can't stomach great rewards for a long time if the content isn't there.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Delivering stimulating, interesting and varied content will be the key driver for retaining veterans. Veterans by their very name and nature stick around because they want to be around.

A wvw veteran is unlikely to care about this system when deciding to buy gems or stay playing. They will care about the development of their mode. If WvW were to never get updates again (and its been a huge drought for them already), this system would be defunct for them. Same for raiders, pvpers and so forth

I'm not trying to pour water on your suggestion because at its core it has some truth to it, but a whole new system dedicated to rewrading players based on utterly arbitrary milestones (inclusive of your edit) is not the answer. For something like this, they could change the daily system to add extra rewards per year of account. Or perhaps rework the achievement system to be a bit more relevant and consistent at delivery rewards.

But as someone you specifically are aiming at with your system, this would do nothing to improve my further retention whatsoever.

“Delivering stimulating, interesting and varied content will be the key driver for retaining veterans.”

Are you saying that rewards are not a key component in that above equation?

New rewards alongisde new content are about improving depth of gameplay. Introducing a new currency (which players would be unhappy about given the complaints about more currencies) just to buy old stuff doesn't seem likely to help with retention.

You really can’t downplay rewards as “old stuff”.

Why not?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

You think that people stop playing because the game isn't rewarding them and not because people lose interest in what the game offers?It's really difficult to retain members from
any
organization, regardless of its purpose. Of the many veterans I know who stopped playing or play less than they they used to, not a single one left because the game failed to reward them more for being a veteran: they changed jobs, changed relationships, found newer games, found other hobbies, and in a lot of cases, just found that 1 new story every 3 months wasn't enough to keep their interest.

Besides that, Veterans
already
get rewarded with AP chests, birthday presents, and simply being able to work on both the latest collections as well as "backfill" the old ones.

I'm not at all against ANet increasing the later AP rewards (even if it's not retroactive). But neither do I think it will have any noticeable effect on veteran attrition.

@Swagger.1459 said:Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?Content that is repeatable and worth doing over and over because it's fun and rewarding.Yup, content (that people enjoy) matters more than rewards. (People can stomach paltry rewards if they have stuff they like doing; people can't stomach great rewards for a long time if the content isn't there.)

This post pretty much nailed it. People don't leave a game because they don't get rewarded, they leave because they either don't have time or feel that there's nothing fun to do in the game.

At least that is how it is for me, I recently came back from a 8 month break, mainly because there's nothing else out there really. Just 3 days before I left I dropped a precursor, for the first and only time in about 8k logged in hours. This did not in at all make me want to stay, rewards only make you happy if you're already happy with the game and not considering quitting. Therefore largely irrelevant in player retention.

Clearly OP would want to get some new shinies for free, who doesn't but this system would mainly feel like a punishment for new players. If any reward systems need to be changed it's the massive timegating of everything in this game including BiS gear for some content (laurels) and pseudo-timegated stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:But this system would not be the answer.

and how do you know that?

For the reasons I already mentioned in an earlier post.

Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?

Content that is repeatable and worth doing over and over because it's fun and rewarding.

World Versus World

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

You think that people stop playing because the game isn't rewarding them and not because people lose interest in what the game offers?It's really difficult to retain members from
any
organization, regardless of its purpose. Of the many veterans I know who stopped playing or play less than they they used to, not a single one left because the game failed to reward them more for being a veteran: they changed jobs, changed relationships, found newer games, found other hobbies, and in a lot of cases, just found that 1 new story every 3 months wasn't enough to keep their interest.

Besides that, Veterans
already
get rewarded with AP chests, birthday presents, and simply being able to work on both the latest collections as well as "backfill" the old ones.

I'm not at all against ANet increasing the later AP rewards (even if it's not retroactive). But neither do I think it will have any noticeable effect on veteran attrition.

@"Swagger.1459" said:Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?Content that is repeatable and worth doing over and over because it's fun and rewarding.Yup, content (that people enjoy) matters more than rewards. (People can stomach paltry rewards if they have stuff they like doing; people can't stomach great rewards for a long time if the content isn't there.)

There are a plethora of reason why players, of every category, stop playing. This topic happens to be addressing rewards specifically for veteran players though.

As established earlier, rewards are a component of gameplay, for reasons, in addition to a bunch of other areas. Rewards are tools to also incentivize playing, and there is nothing inherently wrong with looking at rewards for veteran players right? I have yet to see an real argument that giving extra reward incentives for longer term players to keep playing as a bad thing.

Repetitiveness and grind can be off putting and fatiguing to some, especially to players who’ve been around any game long enough. HoT rewards were improved to (paraphrased from a dev video from long ago) “value player time”... And hence why PoF rewards were better overall from the get go. If someone has dedicated time and effort to playing then I don’t see anything wrong with a reward boost for dedicated players who have stuck with the game, nor providing addition methods of earning game currencies.

Edit- and part of the inspiration came from stuff like this...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette... Buy gems, or convert your gold, to obtain keys for chests and get statuettes to buy items from vendor.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter... Play game, earn currency, exchange currency for stuff.

My idea... Veteran player meets certain requirements, plays game, earns a special currency to buy stuff they need or want from vendor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually like the concept, and believe me I don't approve of yet another random currency lightly. To be honest the best criticism I see is that the requirements may be a bit restrictive and the rewards, well too rewarding. I agree something that costs over 1000 gold on the TP and usually comes from BL chests shouldn't be obtainable from doing 1000 events or hearts. Perhaps conceding to something along the lines ofRequirements:Not FTP account2K + AP (Proves that the player is somewhat experienced and easy enough to obtain with effort)Complete a veteran vendor quest/collection/story to unlock the vendorcompletion of Core, HoT and PoF story unlocks tabs from those storylines with related rewardsKeep the coins earned section the same, but allow any other currency or key or whatever to be traded for Veteran coinRewards should include any or all ofCrafting MatsLimited Use Gathering Tools (including special ones)Salvage kits (maybe add a rune salvage kit that destroys item but saves the rune?)Ascended Materials (Limit per day)Mystic Coins (Limit per day)Mystic Clovers (limit per day)Obsidian ShardsLoot bags of various quality with ascended loot bags that have rare chance of unique rewards ie: 90% of suggested rewards on original postCampaign unique rewards or currencies (with a net loss included for the convenience of exchange)Consumable ItemsUnique Item/Food recipiesUnique Armor / Weapon SetsUnique Mount SkinsUnique Booster ie Karma on Kill, bonus magic find that stacks applied on purchaseAnd maybe make the coins themselves sellable for gold to a vendor or even tradable on the TPMaybe include 1000 coins for one BL key once a week?Honestly it looked like OP had a good idea but wanted to use it as a way to get ultra rare or ultra expensive rewards without the work or effort or real cash needed to obtain them, while I can empathize with the feeling I don't think it's reasonable for the life of the game.

Now here's where it could be fun give unique coin multipliers or bonus coins based on certain criteria such asParty member's first time completing contentPartied with a sub 80 character who is close to the required level for the contentPartied with a not FTP party member who does not have the veteran vendor unlockedJoined a party that had previously full party wiped in content ie. fractal, dungeon, raidNon FTP party member's account is under 1 year oldParty member or self gains achievement for the first time from contentRepeating content for the first time on another character*FTP account limits would be set to prevent abuse of the system with free accounts

I think it would be a nice buff to the rewards "veteran" players gain and provide reward versatility, it helps follow the play what you want model. And if introduced correctly could be a fun side quest to unlock the vendor, maybe put them in your home instance and lock them for non qualified visitors?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Kamikae.9536" said:I actually like the concept, and believe me I don't approve of yet another random currency lightly. To be honest the best criticism I see is that the requirements may be a bit restrictive and the rewards, well too rewarding. I agree something that costs over 1000 gold on the TP and usually comes from BL chests shouldn't be obtainable from doing 1000 events or hearts. Perhaps conceding to something along the lines ofRequirements:Not FTP account2K + AP (Proves that the player is somewhat experienced and easy enough to obtain with effort)Complete a veteran vendor quest/collection/story to unlock the vendorcompletion of Core, HoT and PoF story unlocks tabs from those storylines with related rewardsKeep the coins earned section the same, but allow any other currency or key or whatever to be traded for Veteran coinRewards should include any or all ofCrafting MatsLimited Use Gathering Tools (including special ones)Salvage kits (maybe add a rune salvage kit that destroys item but saves the rune?)Ascended Materials (Limit per day)Mystic Coins (Limit per day)Mystic Clovers (limit per day)Obsidian ShardsLoot bags of various quality with ascended loot bags that have rare chance of unique rewards ie: 90% of suggested rewards on original postCampaign unique rewards or currencies (with a net loss included for the convenience of exchange)Consumable ItemsUnique Item/Food recipiesUnique Armor / Weapon SetsUnique Mount SkinsUnique Booster ie Karma on Kill, bonus magic find that stacks applied on purchaseAnd maybe make the coins themselves sellable for gold to a vendor or even tradable on the TPMaybe include 1000 coins for one BL key once a week?Honestly it looked like OP had a good idea but wanted to use it as a way to get ultra rare or ultra expensive rewards without the work or effort or real cash needed to obtain them, while I can empathize with the feeling I don't think it's reasonable for the life of the game.

Now here's where it could be fun give unique coin multipliers or bonus coins based on certain criteria such asParty member's first time completing contentPartied with a sub 80 character who is close to the required level for the contentPartied with a not FTP party member who does not have the veteran vendor unlockedJoined a party that had previously full party wiped in content ie. fractal, dungeon, raidNon FTP party member's account is under 1 year oldParty member or self gains achievement for the first time from contentRepeating content for the first time on another character*FTP account limits would be set to prevent abuse of the system with free accounts

I think it would be a nice buff to the rewards "veteran" players gain and provide reward versatility, it helps follow the play what you want model. And if introduced correctly could be a fun side quest to unlock the vendor, maybe put them in your home instance and lock them for non qualified visitors?

I wanted to address this...

“Honestly it looked like OP had a good idea but wanted to use it as a way to get ultra rare or ultra expensive rewards without the work or effort or real cash needed to obtain them”

I want you to read the idea and look at numbers I used...

To buy an endless upgrade extractor for 1,000 Prestige Coins you would need to first unlock the ability to earn Prestige Coins by...

“Milestones to start earning veteran rewards...

10k APCore Map CompletionCore Personal Story CompletionParticipated in all Core Map Meta EventsCrafted 1 legendaryDungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.) PLUS Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)Complete 1 Raid WingRank 100 in WvW OR SPvPhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)

EDIT...…………………………………………………………………………..Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...

15k APCore Map CompletionCore Personal Story CompletionParticipated in all Core Map Meta Events”

Again, the above unlocks the ability to earn Prestige Coins... Now you have to play the game to earn the Prestige Coins...

“Players start earning a new currency once the BASE milestones are met... Let's call this currency... "Prestige Coin"...

1 Prestige Coin for completing any event1 Prestige Coin for completing a Heart Quest1 Prestige Coin for defeating any Champion https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_champions3 Prestige Coins for capturing an objective in WvW3 Prestige Coins for winning a SPvP match3 Prestige Coins for completing a dungeon path3 Prestige Coins for completing each T3 or T4 fractal5 Prestige Coins for completing a Meta Event”

Adding up all the requirements above clearly shows this is not “without the work or effort”.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Sorry if that felt aggressive, I wasn't trying to call you out in any way. I suppose as a mostly casual player I blow away all of your original requirements, but have nowhere near the resources or gold to purchase your suggested high tier rewards. So perhaps my view of the difficulty to meet those requirements is skewed, since in my mind I easily meet them. At any rate wasn't meant as a dig at you, more so, that I don't see Anet releasing the majority of the rewards you suggested from a vendor in this way. Did you feel that my suggestions were a valid compromise?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...