Theft within a guild

[SkyShroud.2865]

@alcopaul.2156 said:this is too much hardcore as you see but you could've done these things that i told if you were like playing together for 10 years++.

You don't need 10 years.I know pvp mmorpg have guilds that do meet up like 6 months or yearly. Personally, I have had run pvp mmorg guilds and did that.For pve oriented mmorpg like gw2, is hard to find that camaraderie to meet up.

[alcopaul.2156]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@alcopaul.2156 said:this is too much hardcore as you see but you could've done these things that i told if you were like playing together for 10 years++.

You don't need 10 years.I know pvp mmorpg have guilds that do meet up like 6 months or yearly. Personally, I have had run pvp mmorg guilds and did that.For pve oriented mmorpg like gw2, is hard to find that camaraderie to meet up.

well i put a time allowance for the people who value their trust like a 1.5 billion dollar deposit in their bank. :P

[Ghostrider.6879]

@"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:I'm trying to fathom what you're stockpiling in your guild bank that would make it worthwhile for the time and effort to steal? Seriously the only stuff that goes in my guild's bank is stuff that is there for everyone to take and use. Set the rules for taking stuff from the bank and boot the people that violate them. And don't stick gold in there, that's just asking for theft.

All the guilds I joined are like this. There is nothing valuable in the guild bank, just low level food to help newbies level, some cheap minis and cheap dyes.

The community may be nice, the people you met might seem decent, but in the end, it's the internet and it's not a place to put your trust in people.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Girbilcannon.8259 said:They need a system where you can regulate how many items or how much gold can be removed at one time.I don't see whats wrong with this. seems reasonable.

[Vision.7265]

@"Girbilcannon.8259" said:Hello everybody, Just yesterday my guild bank was raided by an officer right before he ditched the guild and blocked everybody in game and on discord. Keep in mind that this was not just a normal member or even a new officer...he has been an officer for at least 6 months or so and waited until we had a good amount gold and valuable items before taking action. We reached directly out to Anet for answers, and they were kind enough to hit us with the good old "We don't get involved with guild politics" speech. Though it is not what we wanted to hear, we have an amazing player base that helped us get back on track in less than 6 hours. That is nice and all, but the thought is still on my mind...what about the person who did the crime? Will he do it to another guild? Why does Anet not take action against players who can pull of a slick crime like this?

What do you all think about this kind of situation and the GMs pretty much saying "You're on your own"?Do you feel like Anet should step up and take actions against these thieves if presented with a clear case and plenty of evidence to go with it?

This is really unfortunate. I think it IS theft and that it should be dealt with at some level by an authority figure.

I can also see the difficulty in handling a much larger guild. I have no need to or desire to ever run a guild larger than 50 people let alone 500 or a multi-slot guild.

My best experience is being an admin for a small guild of 22 people. With only 22 people, we gathered enough funding, mats, and manpower to fully upgrade a guild hall, experience all of core Tyria together, and other things here and there, and learn to trust one another. It's been 5 years and to this day our guild bank policy still stands: if you take something you have to give something. Sometimes it fills up and our guild leaders tell the most active people to just take things if you need it. Then the rest of us say, "no no no, someone else might need it" and no one takes anything because of that attitude. We were fortunate we all held the same value system: giving is better than receiving.

How do you prevent such a thing? I think a interview for your future admins is necessary; I also agree with the other poster who mentioned asking around about people. An interview is them tooting their own horn. Find out about that person through other means. What values do they hold?

But this one was trusted and sat for 6 months as admin only to steal? That's as selfish and wicked as they come. To be totally honest, that's just LAZY. This game has SO MANY OPTIONS to make gold if that was that person's issue. If they do it to sell gold for real cash? Damn that's also really terrible. Because then you have to blame an entire industry of gold and item sellers (the buyers too are to blame).

I really can't imagine both leading a large, multi slot guild nor just being an admin. The risk multiplies with the size. Do you really know every single member?When it comes down to it, it's not your fault and I totally hold the thief responsible.Stealing is wrong no matter what the situation.The upside is that you have a community of people who are willing to stick around and recover regardless.

[Mewcifer.5198]

If this were a company these actions would be called embezzlement.

I heard about this as the guild leader for the guild I am an officer in saw a warning about the person. It's not the first time I heard of people doing this. And the people who do this always give the same excuse of "well I had the ability to take it" as if that somehow means it was perfectly okay for them to do so.

[avey.4201]

Some people are officers for 4 years and get to co-lead from the owners lack realizing, then they demote the guild owner and have fancy new guild to themselves, I can understand the bank issue, but taking an entire guild is an issue when it is maxed, the decorations are maxed, 10's of thousands of gold gone.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Imber.4902 said:I once helped someone get a guild up and running. Claimed the guild hall and was then asked if I wanted in - sure. Deposited a lot of mats to upgrade. A few weeks in, was asked to help deposit some more mats for a larger upgrade while waiting for aetherium or whatever. I did, everyone was happy. Next day, the guild was gone. Well, I suppose it's still there and most likely have a guild membership count of one.

I was kinda stumped at the time, but eh. I was to blame for not thinking ahead. I consider that more of a theft than what you descibe in the OP. It's not raided if there was permission. Hopefully, more people will remember this now that it's been brought to light and perhaps add some more restrictions to it's members.

agreed...

I helped a guild in the same way. As a fully upgraded scribe I started pumping mats into the hall and helping upgrade it. I put a LOT into it and was happy to help.

Suddenly I was demoted and couldn’t even do scribe stuff. I was told it was because I didn’t rep the guild all the time... which was never noted as any requirement. I just quietly left and made a reminder to myself to help people I know.... period.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

@"Girbilcannon.8259" said:Hello everybody, Just yesterday my guild bank was raided by an officer right before he ditched the guild and blocked everybody in game and on discord. Keep in mind that this was not just a normal member or even a new officer...he has been an officer for at least 6 months or so and waited until we had a good amount gold and valuable items before taking action. We reached directly out to Anet for answers, and they were kind enough to hit us with the good old "We don't get involved with guild politics" speech. Though it is not what we wanted to hear, we have an amazing player base that helped us get back on track in less than 6 hours. That is nice and all, but the thought is still on my mind...what about the person who did the crime? Will he do it to another guild? Why does Anet not take action against players who can pull of a slick crime like this?

What do you all think about this kind of situation and the GMs pretty much saying "You're on your own"?Do you feel like Anet should step up and take actions against these thieves if presented with a clear case and plenty of evidence to go with it?

It is bs but unfortunately your screwed. Sorry for your luck.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

So how does that work? everyone in the guild contributes so you can have "your" vault all to yourself? Seems like entitlement.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

So how does that work? everyone in the guild contributes so you can have "your" vault all to yourself? Seems like entitlement.

Nothing in my vault is put there by anyone but me. The other vaults are shared.

[Ashen.2907]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

So how does that work? everyone in the guild contributes so you can have "your" vault all to yourself? Seems like entitlement.

You mean the vault that he says is used for items to be given out in contests and for members of the guild upon request?

The word entitlement loses some of its lustre when used to describe giving things away to others..

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

So how does that work? everyone in the guild contributes so you can have "your" vault all to yourself? Seems like entitlement.

You mean the vault that he says is used for items to be given out in contests and for members of the guild upon request?

The word entitlement loses some of its lustre when used to describe giving things away to others..

...and as I noted, the items in that top vault are from me and noone else. For example I have about 10 expensive BL skins and another 15 mid range ones. Some rare dyes etc... So ya I guess I’m entitled to control where they go.

[Zeivu.3615]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Girbilcannon.8259 said:They need a system where you can regulate how many items or how much gold can be removed at one time.I don't see whats wrong with this. seems reasonable.

Other MMOs have found a way to implement it where there was daily gold allowance limits and limited item withdrawals. I don't see why this can't be implemented in 2019 here in gw2 as an option. I am sure it would work best for both Anet and the guild communities as a middle ground and would reduce a lot of drama.

[Linken.6345]

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

So how does that work? everyone in the guild contributes so you can have "your" vault all to yourself? Seems like entitlement.

You mean the vault that he says is used for items to be given out in contests and for members of the guild upon request?

The word entitlement loses some of its lustre when used to describe giving things away to others..

...and as I noted, the items in that top vault are from me and noone else. For example I have about 10 expensive BL skins and another 15 mid range ones. Some rare dyes etc... So ya I guess I’m entitled to control where they go.

I think what Jumpin Lumpix.6108 pointed out did you pay to upgrade the last step yourself in the guild bank if not thats kinda scummy to the rest of the guild.I have 3 guild bank I fully upgraded before the system changed so know that it was quite cheap back in the day.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:Having run a guild for six years I adjusted how my guild bank works. The stash is MY vault where I put the most valuable stuff and gold. The other vaults are used for anything I don’t mind being leeched.

If people have access to them then I fully permit them to take what they want.

The top vault, Stash, contains things used for contests and/or for people that want something “shiny”. If a member simply asks then I’m happy to give ONE per!

I have only one other member in my guild that accesses the stash and I’ve known this person for a few years now.

Adopt this format and your thieving issues are gone.

So how does that work? everyone in the guild contributes so you can have "your" vault all to yourself? Seems like entitlement.

You mean the vault that he says is used for items to be given out in contests and for members of the guild upon request?

The word entitlement loses some of its lustre when used to describe giving things away to others..

...and as I noted, the items in that top vault are from me and noone else. For example I have about 10 expensive BL skins and another 15 mid range ones. Some rare dyes etc... So ya I guess I’m entitled to control where they go.

I think what Jumpin Lumpix.6108 pointed out did you pay to upgrade the last step yourself in the guild bank if not thats kinda scummy to the rest of the guild.I have 3 guild bank I fully upgraded before the system changed so know that it was quite cheap back in the day.

I paid to upgrade most everything in my hall myself. Spent thousands of gold from start to finish. Had help from members of another guild at times but most was me alone.

[samo.1054]

This is your problem and I only find it normal thaz Anet does not interfere with such issues. There's a very real lesson to be learned from all this and it applies to life in general - trust no one.

[alcopaul.2156]

@"samo.1054" said:This is your problem and I only find it normal thaz Anet does not interfere with such issues. There's a very real lesson to be learned from all this and it applies to life in general - trust no one.

Trust "No. One"

[Graymalkyn.8076]

With all due respect, you all are also assuming the OP is giving us the real story. It could be that the guy who bolted basically built and financed the guild and then got fed up with others taking HIS stuff. I don't know the details, but I have learned to get the whole story before assuming one person's view is the correct view.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Graymalkyn.8076 said:With all due respect, you all are also assuming the OP is giving us the real story. It could be that the guy who bolted basically built and financed the guild and then got fed up with others taking HIS stuff. I don't know the details, but I have learned to get the whole story before assuming one person's view is the correct view.

You are correct.

That being said, we aren’t judge jury OR executioner. We are noting responses based on what was presented.

And no one’s good name has been tarnished. There has been no naming involved.

[gateless gate.8406]

Why would you put valuable things in the guild bank?

This is, as the Anet representative told you, a matter of internal guild politics.

[Nury.3062]

I 've been a guild leader for 5 years in GW2 and many others in other MMORPGs and i never had any valuable items in the guild bank.I once met a guy in a game,we were from the same country so it was nice,we played almost daily for months,hardcore farming,trading,everything together.He used to trade a lot and "level" his gear a lot but in that game the gear could break when "leveled" and once he told me that he broke his farming gear and asked me if i can give him my farming gear for a few days until he gets some gold to start again with unleveled stuff.I gave him my farming gear in an instant,the moment i gave him that he said he didn't receive it and i even had his account and pass so the moment he told me i logged in and it wasn't there.After talking with a gm he told me that the gear was traded/moved to another account.He scammed me after pretending to be my "friend" for months.Even if i had the pvp gear and i could get farming gear easily,i was not even that big on farming,it wasn't the same anymore, shortly after i stopped playing the game.The only thing i learned from it is to NEVER trust anyone.

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

Never had this problem and have always kept very valuable items and hundreds of gold in the vault. You have to use a little common sense.3 sections of the guild vault.

Section 1 - any member can place items in or take items out. (general green/blue gear foods, etc.)

Section 2 - any member can place items in but only trusted officers can take items out. (higher end items, members must ask if there is something they would like)

Section 3 - any member can place items in but only myself, my alt accounts or the treasurer can take items out. (High end items, main gold store, etc) Treasurer sleeps in my bed and I fix their meals so I trust them with a little in game gold.

Big difference with our guild is we do not have just guild members. We make friends and then invite them. As I said before, quality over quantity. What is the use of having a 400 member guild if you do not even know who these people are and you can't trust them?

[Mewcifer.5198]

Scenario: You run a small organization in real life. You have various members given various duties. One member is in charge of the organization's finances. They are responsible for keeping track of what people have donated to the group to keep it running. One day the group's fund is empty and the guy is unable to be contacted, blocking any form of contact people use to try and talk to them.

Is this "an internal organization matter"? Or is this embezzlement? Would you call the police and report a theft? Or would you shrug and let it go?

People often seem too willing to overlook things just because it is on the internet. I get that real life money is worth more than in game items and gold, but that doesn't make those items and gold worthless. Someone still put their time and effort into acquiring them. We should value the time of other players more.

A person having the ability to take things from the guild bank and doing so is one thing. A person taking everything from the guild bank and then leaving the guild without saying anything is an entirely different thing. If it was just a matter of the person didn't understand they shouldn't take too much then that's just a misunderstanding and is an internal guild issue. But if the person immediately leaves the guild then it is pretty clear they were taking the stuff with the intent to rip the guild off, that makes it a player scamming other players issue. And scamming is against GW2 code of conduct as describe by "Taking advantage of another player (“scamming”) in order to take his/her items or account"

I know it's a matter that is hard to prove you often have he-said-she-said. But I have seen these thieves be confident enough to admit to what they did with the excuse of "I was able to take the stuff, so I did and then I left because they didn't have anything else I could benefit from anymore"

Are some guild leaders too lax with permissions and/or who they promote? Yes.Does that mean people who take advantage of and scam others should be overlooked? No.