Can we stop with the "WvW players so hard to please" rhetoric?

[Drecien.4508]

This will be a nice addition to wvw. Maybe it'll help reinvigorate eotm. I'm a wvw player and I support this mount!

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Good point OP..

I heard PvE'ers would like it WvW'ers with a gold rank or higher would be able to kill players out in PvE land, whether it be in cities, maps, dungeons, fractals, raids, you name it. Apparently they've been asking for this for 3 years (but we see dont see this in threads), but trust me, they've wanted this for quite sometime!

Or another way to look at it....

PvE players "We want new maps with the new living world seasons"Anet "OK, we added a few more chairs you can sit on in Lions Arch, and we changed the clothes on the trading post merchant"PvE Players "This is ridiculous, this is not what we wanted"WvW players "Don't complain that Anet doesn't do anything or add content to PvE, they clearly added some more chairs and changed some clothing"

[CrimsonRise.7650]

What's ridiculous, is from what I've seen for 6 years, is that PVE players keep on saying we need them in wvw, when the majority just end up back in pve.

This is shortly after Anet brings a new shiny feature to get them to hop into wvw, even if they hate PvP.

What keeps wvw active for all these years, are all the commanders, guilds and players who still play and want to improve, so that we can all provide each other good content, which for alot of players are good fights, whether it be small or large scale. This is simply because ppt is irrelevant, due to population imbalance and links constantly changing server communities, in the past few years.

It's not the players I see everyday, who aren't even a part of their own wvw community and QQ about lack of commander tags or ktrains, while on their Thieves or rangers.

Arenanet keeps trying these new features, to bring in new players, but I think apart from a couple of players, the majority wants to be carried, so they never learn or contribute towards their own wvw community. Even that has not been the only problem, the WvW Devs of the past have had, when it comes to bringing in really ill advised new features (with or without the bugs).

We've had balance changes to classes in wvw, which has ruined the game mode for every type of player.

As for GvG though, they supported it 5 years ago. There was a bigger community back then, but when RG and Ogro pushed for support, that was the time for Anet to fully support it, or even pre/post HoT, with the Guild Arenas and Elite spec balancing.

[Rockal.5468]

I know that people in wvw can be helpful to new players. If they want, if they ask, they usually got answers and helpful hand. But if he is going everyday as ranger to farm Gift of Battle, where he is always first who die and dont listen to ppl around him, dont be surprised ppl are toxic to him. Respect the gamemode and community in it and they will respect you. No one wants to play with player that will put his legs on table with "Let's go boys carry me now". In raid you will kick players like this and your problem is solved. In wvw you cant do it, so you are toxic and the player either leave (your form of kick), finally starts to understand that he should change is attitude or nothing will happen at all. There was training raid on our server, 35+- ppl in squad, 25 on voice. If you guess that ppl that needed it most werent on voice to listen and improve themselves, you are right. This toxicity is given by ignorance.

[Pretty Pixie.8603]

Maybe they can just stop adding raids and fractals for a year or so, leave any urgent fixes for that time, and instead add a mount to them after that year. The mount should need a lot of of raid/fractal currency, so any newbies are at a distinct disadvantage, and the mount skill should have a severe effect on the mode, like instantly breaking a bosses breakbar. Meanwhile, a couple of balance passes will reduce the meta to three classes.

[Shroud.2307]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Always whining about WvW being a dying game mode that never gets any attention, then when the devs want to try something new to breath life into it, they whine about that too. That seems like a hard to please audience to me.

Okay, let me tell you a few things that may or may not be shocking to you.

Speldan, the far north western camp on Eternal Battleground has been bugged for 4 years. Swords do not appear when it is contested.South east camp in the Alpine Borderlands has been bugged for even longer. There are multiple areas in a very small radius that will obstruct projectiles on flat ground.You can leap in to Garrison in the Alpine Borderlands.You can leap in to Quentin Lake in EBG.Mercenaries in EBG (Dredge, Hylek, Ogres) will fully reset and respawn at their origin camps if they're put in combat before reaching a supply camp. This has been a bug for well over a year.NPC Guards can aggro over triple their normal distance at the back side (the side facing Stonemist Castle) of the blue keep in EBG. They can literally chase you to Quentin Lake (though this does not always happen).Visual bugs that cause an overlap in tier upgrades where you will see both T1 and T3 on the same objective simultaneously. This has been fixed and broken again more times than I can count and sometimes can cause the walls to become invulnerable.With some camera manipulation you can shoot over gates/walls with Arrow Carts and certain other attacks like Ranger's Barrage. Not sure how long this has been a bug but at least a year or so.Fake map Q's that show a map is full when in fact it is not.Map Q's that stop moving and force you to leave and re-enter.Being sent to the back of a Q after reaching the front.

That's all I can think of for the moment, but I assure you there's more. Like siege locations that can't be countered or abusing NPC aggro to perma-contest a keep without actually being present, etc. Not all of these things are game breaking but many of them have existed for years (plural) and have been mentioned many times as well. I don't think anyone expects WvW to operate perfectly. Of course there are going to be issues here and there and some may not be fixed for a length of time. But seriously? If they can't fix things as simple as some of these are, I have a hard time believing they're paying much attention to WvW in general.

[derd.6413]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Always whining about WvW being a dying game mode that never gets any attention, then when the devs want to try something new to breath life into it, they whine about that too. That seems like a hard to please audience to me.

Okay, let me tell you a few things that may or may not be shocking to you.

Speldan, the far north western camp on Eternal Battleground has been bugged for

4 years.

Swords do not appear when it is contested.South east camp in the Alpine Borderlands has been bugged for even longer. There are multiple areas in a very small radius that will obstruct projectiles on flat ground.You can leap in to Garrison in the Alpine Borderlands.You can leap in to Quentin Lake in EBG.Mercenaries in EBG (Dredge, Hylek, Ogres) will fully reset and respawn at their origin camps if they're put in combat before reaching a supply camp. This has been a bug for well over a year.NPC Guards can aggro over triple their normal distance at the back side (the side facing Stonemist Castle) of the blue keep in EBG. They can literally chase you to Quentin Lake (though this does not always happen).Visual bugs that cause an overlap in tier upgrades where you will see both T1 and T3 on the same objective simultaneously. This has been fixed and broken again more times than I can count and sometimes can cause the walls to become invulnerable.With some camera manipulation you can shoot over gates/walls with Arrow Carts and certain other attacks like Ranger's Barrage. Not sure how long this has been a bug but at least a year or so.Fake map Q's that show a map is full when in fact it is not.Map Q's that stop moving and force you to leave and re-enter.Being sent to the back of a Q after reaching the front.

That's all I can think of for the moment, but I assure you there's more. Like siege locations that can't be countered or abusing NPC aggro to perma-contest a keep without actually being present, etc. Not all of these things are game breaking but many of them have existed for

years

(plural) and have been mentioned many times as well. I don't think anyone expects WvW to operate perfectly. Of course there are going to be issues here and there and some may not be fixed for a length of time. But seriously? If they can't fix things as simple as some of these are, I have a hard time believing they're paying much attention to WvW in general.

i guess you've never coded something have you,

personally it seems anet is pretty much uprooting the entire code of wvw for alliances, the warclaw seems to be a feature they could add without having to worry about setting alliances back 6 months or something

[Tiny Doom.4380]

As someone who has played both WvW and PvE since launch, I personally don't want mounts in either game mode. As implemented they have been nothing but an irritating gimmick and a visual eyesore. One of the few remaining benefits of WvW since Path of Fire has been a place to go where you could guarantee never to see a mount nor find content gated by the requirement to use one. With that advantage removed, GW2 as a whole, not just WvW, becomes significantly less appealing. Path of Fire and the changes it brought have already reduced my played hours by well over 50% from the Heart of Thorns era. I'm not making any melodramatic claims about "leaving the game" over mounts coming to WvW but the plain fact is that I have played much less PvE since, and because of, the introduction of mounts, so it's highly likely this will mean a similar reduction in my played hours in WvW. Only the lack of a major, new MMORPG keeps me playing GW2 these days and even without one I have drifted back to spending the majority of my time in older MMOs. At this rate I'm going to become one of those people who comes back every few months, sticks around for a few days and then vanishes. I see a lot of those on my friends list.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

You want players not to complain about WvW players, but youre the one who is prejudiced towards opposing opinions. Classic.

Just FYI, 'veteran WvW players' that agree with you, dont have less or more right than any other player because of low ranking, preferred game mode or any other criteria you wish to utilize to devalue other valid opinions.

That somehow only veteran WvW players have the valid concerns is ridiculous.

[Jura.2170]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:There are multiple areas in a very small radius that will obstruct projectiles on flat ground.

It can also happen in the south west and north east camps

Being sent to the back of a Q after reaching the front.

This happens a lot to me

[Cerioth.7062]

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

You want players not to complain about WvW players, but youre the one who is prejudiced towards opposing opinions. Classic.

Just FYI, 'veteran WvW players' that agree with you, dont have less or more right than any other player because of low ranking, preferred game mode or any other criteria you wish to utilize to devalue other valid opinions.

That somehow only veteran WvW players have the valid concerns is ridiculous.

Yeah, this. I have a fairly high rank in WvW myself but would not consider it my main game mode. However what drives me away from WvW is exactly that what you just described there.

[Sarrs.4831]

I dunno, I'm rank 4.8k, 100% roamer and apparently I should like mounts the least. I think people are blowing this way out of proportion.

[Kaiser.9873]

@Arctisavange.7261 said:

@"Clownmug.8357" said:Always whining about WvW being a dying game mode that never gets any attention, then when the devs want to try something new to breath life into it, they whine about that too. That seems like a hard to please audience to me.

Its a dying game mode not cause lack of content is main reason.Its dying cause of years and years of horrible class balancing that has made combat unbearably frustrating.

Adding mounts will mess up the combat even more then it allready is. Now id be fine if anet would implant mounts with limitations that dont break the combat but if they cant do even proper class balancing after years and years being passed then yeah, good luck with mounts.

It's "dying" due to neglect. Horrible class balance is only one, not especially huge, aspect of that neglect. Poor streamlining of performance, poor population balancing, and lack of any real communication/vision are the main culprits.

[Straegen.2938]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?Diamond Recruit, 6k plus hours in WvW, closing in on Ultimate Dominator, mostly roam, flipped over 17k camps, all classes fully geared with a min of ascended (almost two character slots for each class on my main account), former commander, don't really play PvE or sPvP...

I think the mount is fine at this point and I am more than willing to give the feature a fair shake.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Straegen.2938 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?Diamond Recruit, 6k plus hours in WvW, closing in on Ultimate Dominator, mostly roam, flipped over 17k camps, all classes fully geared with a min of ascended (almost two character slots for each class on my main account), former commander, don't really play PvE or sPvP...

I think the mount is fine at this point and I am more than willing to give the feature a fair shake.

We agree again. What?

...

Nope, no incoming extinction level event I can see...

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

At this point I feel like wvw players should be happy that anyone including new players want to play wvw for any reason.

[Celsith.2753]

@derd.6413 said:

i guess you've never coded something have you,

personally it seems anet is pretty much uprooting the entire code of wvw for alliances, the warclaw seems to be a feature they could add without having to worry about setting alliances back 6 months or something

You know, we had that bug in wvw for YEARS. The one where changes of state gradually made npcs invisible, then your weapon, then you. This also included the wp loading screen bug where youd be stuck on a loading screen for 5 minutes. It was reported over and over again in the bug section. For years.

It recently cropped up in fractals and hey presto! Fixed in a week or so.

Don't give me the old coding bs. It's little to do with coding complication and more to do with apathy for the mode.

[viniebc.9568]

gosh i hate those pve casuals, all they care about is new skins

[Asudementio.8526]

@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:I've been playing WvW, in the same world, since the last WvW tournament. I havoc and scout and very rarely command.

I consider myself a WvW player, and agree 100% that they are, by and large, whiney little kittens.

They are also, quite frankly, blind as to how ANet works.

Look at sheer forum numbers. Regular discussion is almost 5x as active as WvW. In part because there is more PvE players overall than WvW, and also because WvW players here drive people away with their kitten toxicity.

These WvW "vets" claim they know everything the mode needs. Yet if you boil down everything they want, WvW would be an empty white square with weekly balance passes everytime the tryhard commanders ran into something that would bust up the zerg meta.

But here is the thing they will not admit. They don't know real numbers, and they never will. Only ANet has those. The Discords and Teamspeaks will never give full numbers because many casual and even regular WvW players will never log into them due to that toxicity mentioned above. Many players never even turn on team or map chat. TACO pretty much runs in only guild chat, and only 2 of us (myself and @"Teon.5168" ) ever post here. The rest won't bother with the attitude and closed mindedness.

Anybody that didn't know that mounts would make their way to WvW the second PoF was announced was willfully blind or a fool. It's a selling point of the Xpac. It sells gems for mount skins. It was inevitable as the heat death of the universe.

So all the whiners and complainers, put up or shut up. Either leave your "ded game" or stop complaining about something that anyone paying attention knew was coming.

But for the love of the six... er, five, stop acting like you own the mode. You don't. Everyone that plays does, including the vast majority that never posts here because of your attitudes.

You know what is great for the gamemode? Continued displacement of it's staunchest defenders by myopic design decisions more interested in short term cash flows than building a sustainable play experience. WvW is a unique format- if it was treated half as decently as PvE it would be among the better recruiting tools for GW2 in an otherwise dying MMO market. Instead you can have your kitten mount and enjoy running around empty borderlands to your heart's content.

Shame on you for picking at people who are complaining because they care about WvW's success.

[SkyShroud.2865]

i am legit upset that the thread is not closed, after calling others "Anet defense force". I usually get removed and warned by doing that.

[Arcaedus.7290]

Can we talk about this "disruption to mobility" thing a bit more?

• Mounts allow very fast movement (looks like it will be much faster than 133% MS)
• Cannot mount while in combat
• Mount likely will work like it does in pve (not affected by mobility condis or CC)
• Probably safe to assume mount has 5-10k health
• If you dismount a player by killing the mount, they get CCed for a short while and are put in combat obviously

With these premises kept in mind, what exactly is imbalanced about mounts?

"They allow you to avoid encounters"

• under certain scenarios, yes... again though, if you manage to dismount the player by draining mount hp, they're going to be CCed for a bit.

"They will drastically change the meta."

• I doubt it unless mounts have a CC or large damage attached to their #1 skill.
• The #3 evade skill might add an additional ability for a zerg to push through a bomb or choke but that's not a bad change imo.

"They will allow larger groups of players to chase down smaller ones."

• highly doubt it. Assuming you have 3 mounted players chasing 1 mounted player, the 3 will be forced to dismount and use ranged attacks to catch the 1 who is still mounted. Between having a head-start, the #3 evasion skill + their own specific skills once dismounted, they'll have plenty of resources to get away.

"It will allow backline necros to avoid getting ganked."

• Probably not completely. Once again, you can dismount them by dealing enough damage.
• Even if it allows them to get away more often, this is an objectively good change.

"Mounts will enable slow roamers."

• Not really... once in combat a slow class/build can easily be kited
• Even if mounts do enable slow roamers, this is once again a good thing. We need more variety in roaming, not just mirage, soulbeast, deadeye/daredevil...

"Mounts will invalidate other siege."

• We don't know this yet. It could be that 3 mounted players do less siege damage to a door than a single player on a basic ram.

"It gives a large advantage to defenders."

• I disagree. Siege capabilities offer an advantage to the aggressors, plus for those willing to split the zerg into smaller squads, being able to quickly disperse these squads and attack multiple capture points has strategic advantage.

It's all hypothetical at this point.. we don't know for sure how mounts work and the Warclaw may function very differently in wvw than it does in pve. Additionally, a countermeasure in the form of a dismounting trap could very easily be included.

I understand why people are upset about the mount and honestly im quite worried about the mount having CC, or too much health or its #3 evade being long-duration... these are all things that will heavily skew fights. However, it also seems like a lot of people here haven't really thought much about how mounts work and how this mount will work in wvw. What about them makes them imbalanced?

[Jski.6180]

Wvw players i think want more class balancing and more hands off from pve and spvp balancing. Its just not fun to be one shot because a class got a crazy buff in pve so they can do dps. Its also not fun to never be able to kill any one because of pve balancing for a healing support build. That why there always been a big push to have a non elite spec week in wvw.

As for spvp balancing carrying over to wvw its more on the line of gear combos and the lack of from spvp.