"Starter" mount for core players?

[Shikigami.4013]

They could copy the skimmer land gliding movement mechanics over to the magic carpet and leave out the water gliding ability. This "improved magic carpet" would be slower than any regular mount on land and as unable to traverse water as any non-skimmer mount. It would not be a viable alernative to having a full set of real PoF mounts, but better than the completely useless cosmetic movement toy carpet.

This item should not be available by quest/gold/collection though, but still only in the gemstore. People had to pay gems for it for many years before mounts arrived, and still have to pay with gems today. Asking for a FREE mount for people who did not buy the expansion that gives you mounts is unreasonable.

[flog.3485]

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:4x Event dailies should simply focus on a continent rather than a single map. Core maps arent even made to have events repeat that often.

That or maybe reduce the number to 1 event for the daily.

That, or make all hearts repeatable and include those.

Now, harvesting can easily be in one map only as the goals arent shared or 'stolen' by other players.

Honestly it would just be better to buy the expansion.The daily system has never been exclusively tied to living maps nor does it force you to do your dailies, because nothing in the game is tied to do your daily x amount of time over a long period in order to acquire x unique item.Nothing in the game gives you a free glider even if you don't own HoT so obviously, nothing in the game should give you a free mount in zones that weren't designed with mounts in the first place.They were generous enough for people without PoF to offer mount rentals in festivals as well as for the roller beetle races, that is enough of a nice preview and incentive imo.

I always skip the event daily, and I do have every mount. If the goal is to do every daily then that specific daily is flawed with or without mounts.

The suggestion to buy PoF will help to get a mount, and the suggestion for starter players to get a starter mount, will only help so much to attain said goal.

I really don’t understand your argument.I never said to do every daily. All your dailies requires you to complete 3 tasks. If one player struggles to do the daily event in one map without mount, why do it ?This player can play the 2 very easy solo daily with harvesting tools and vistas and then focus on a easy daily within PvP or WvW.

OP did talk about not being able to certain dailies. So i made my suggestion. You responded to my posts, so I explained.I never claimed you said do all dailies.

I see. Sorry for the confusion.

[Goettel.4389]

I hate those mount spammers as much as any reasonable person, but getting your daily events done should't be too hard.A tip for your friend: set Content Guide in the General Options menu to "Disable Personal Story". Assuming he has completed the zone (if not, do that first), the map will then show a pointer to the nearest event. Run to it, do at least one step towards the event (bronze is sufficient for the daily), and only then have him /mentor and link the location to map chat (if he likes contributing to other people's event completion).

[Teratus.2859]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:As far as travel, all classes have access to 33% movement speed. There is food that rewards swiftness per kill slowing you to stack minutes. Unlocking all waypoints is fairly painless.

Classes, yes but that speed buff varies greatly in duration between both classes and build.I've run multiple characters to 100% world completion and many of them had builds that give no movement speed benefits at all..Being forced to sacrifice your build to get around quicker is not something I consider fair or convenient.. and PoF mounts were a huge help at fixing this problem.Because of Mounts you'll never need to swap your traits or skills or weapons around just for some extra mobility.

I see no reason why a core world mount with restrictions shouldn't be added to the game.For example purposes I'm going with Horse as the core world mount.

To start with Anet could set the run speed of the horse to that of the Skimmer's land speed and provide incentive to players by stating that buying PoF will increase the mounts run speed to 100% which is the same as the Raptor, Springer and Jackel.Also make the Horse available to buy at a stable area in each of the 5 starter maps but put a level cap on the Horse so that players will still need to level up to 80 before they can obtain it.

This means for a new player they'll need a level 80 character and PoF to unlock the Horse's full potential and now they have options.They could buy PoF which will give them a level 80 boost that they can then use to unlock the ability to buy the horse on their account, they can then save up the gold or buy some gems and convert it to gold and buy the horse then play the entire core game with a 100% speed horse.

Or they can level up normally as the game was ment to be played originally and upon hitting 80 go and buy their Horse which gives them a sample taste of mounts in Gw2 and provides them with enough mobility to be more useful than swiftness to get around (which will negate their need to change skills, traits and weapons for mobility) and will allow them to not fall so far behind while in a squad becuase they've no mount at all.That Horse base speed increase they'll get just from buying PoF is going to start becoming more appealing over time.. specially since buying PoF will also give them access to 5 other mounts.. each with their own unique mobility abilities.So they could buy PoF.. but won't feel pressured to rush and play it just for the Raptors base 100% speed increase and spoil the story for themselves.. since they'll already have a mount that gives them that speed increase.. but they can still do it if they choose to.

This is a similar practice I see employed in other MMO's like RIFT for example which have many different mounts you can find and buy in the game which have different run speeds which does encourage people to go to their cash shop and buy the faster premium mounts there.ESO also provides the option to buy with money upgrades to increase your mounts speed and carry capacity etc or you can very slowely overtime increase it daily.

Anet will benefit from this as it'll provide a very diserable mobility option for non PoF owners.. as well as a big incentive for them to actually buy PoF.It also gives anet another mount they can exploit on the gem store with cosmetic skins and I guarantee you that both new players and old will pick up the Horse and buy skins for it regardless because this game is entirely about cosmetics.

The Horse itself will recive additional benefits.For a player without PoF it'll be just a slightly diminisehd core world mobility tool and something they can purchase skins for if they wish.

For an older player with expansions etc it'll be a new base 100% speed mount with new skins for them to collect (and they will) which will also recieve all the benefits of shared Mount masteries such as bonus damage from the Raptor and reduced fall damage from the Springger.. and naturally the Crystal Champion Bond skills as well.

Sure Anet would have to create a new mount which takes time but they've already made it clear that they are willing to do this.. even for a mode like WvW.And the best part is they wouldn't even need to go out of their way to think up a special ability for the Horse.. it doesn't have to have one and it's disengage skill could easily just be a charge/trample clone of the Roller Beetles albiet a fair bit slower.

It would be a lot less work than making something like the Warclaw or Rollar Beetle and they more or less give them away as well.And the potential for Gem store skins for a Horse is huge..Multiple types of Armoured Horse, Royal Guard Steed, Seraph Steed, Black Citadel Steed etcSylvari plant HorseExalted HorseGhost HorseUndead Zombie HorseSkeletal HorseDragon HorseMultiple types of elemental Horse Fire, Water, Lightning etcSand Jackel theme HorseMechanical Watchwork HorseCanthan Kirin Premium 2000 gem skin.. Even i'd be tempted by that one!!

I could literally go on with tons more gem skin ideas for them and people will buy them..Each mount individually is a cash cow in all honesty.

[LucianDK.8615]

horses doesnt exist in tyria. glad to see a fantasy world without them. In wow the alliance screams about far too many horses.

[Rico.6873]

Dolyak plz

[Yargesh.4965]

I don't support this. If you want open world mounts buy the expansion.The only place I can see a taste is during races as they have been already or a rental in the guild halls for both mounts and gliders.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

@"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said:So I have been helping a friend get in to the game. He has the core game so far (Heroic edition not FTP) and like it. There is one issue that has come up however that is souring him on the game and is very frustrating for him. He has leveled enough that he can now do dailies, however it is extremely hard to complete some of them due to not having a mount and competing with players who do. Example, when an event completer daily comes up and he attempts to do it, other players will helpfully post the location for the event or it will show on the map. By the time he runs to that location, the event is over because everyone with a mount got there much faster and completed it. I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". So I was thinking, would it be that bad to give new players a "default" mount? No special abilities other then movement speed. It could also be a source of revenue by selling skins as well? Any thoughts? I have been thinking about just buying him a waypoint unlock package but that kind of spoils the fun of exploring. Any other suggestions/thoughts?

What I did regarding the dailies when I first started playing was use the one that called for events in a specific area as an opportunity to explore that region. Just by wandering around, getting WPs and PoIs, I'd usually bump into enough events on my own that I got the daily done pretty quickly. Many of the events I started myself by talking to the NPC with the event symbol over their head, and people would join me when they saw the event kick off. This approach made my eventual map completion a lot easier too.

I wasn't in a rush though, and was playing on my own back then, so I didn't have any one else to try to keep up with. But the time spent running to an announced event vs. waiting around in a lively area for an event to pop up seems to even out over time. And even now that I have a mount and have map completion, there are still times when an event called out in map chat is over by the time I get to it.

So I think leaving mounts/gliding as an expansion perk is still the way to go, to encourage people to buy them and help fund the game.

[Udolpho.1209]

I can see a starter mount at level 20 or 30... a (horse) mount that does not go faster than regular running who's ability is a gallop, which basically just a short-term swiftness. It would semi-help (?) with speed but not be able to keep pace with the true mounts. It could be a chance to educate: to say here's how mounts work, here's how you acquire mounts, here's a token mount of limited benefit, now don't you want more?

But whether that was offered in core, or with a PoF purchase, or even just straight up exclusively in the gemstore... it wouldn't help much with leveling, events would still end too quickly sometimes... really it would just address the need/desire to "have a mount too", or the impatience to not have to wait -- or satisfy those who really want a horse. Do they have the time to develop such a thing with limited usefulness?

I like people's suggestion of the Dolyak, too.

And as an aside, new players should get the common clothing outfit as an unlock, to show them how outfits work and make them want to buy more. I think now they have to know to go looking for the tonic on the trading post and then exchange it... it's a wasted opportunity for both sides.

[TunaDan.1205]

Some good points on all sides.I think I wouldnt mind a single mount that had half the increased speed for my core characters. Nothing that jumped or leaped, but offered an ok speed boost. So, when I eventually hit 80 and PoF, the core mount would become inferior to the mounts that open up.I dont need a dozen different core mounts, either. Just one will do. An ugly old horse with a ratty blanket over it's back would do.

[ROMANG.1903]

@ShiningSquirrel.3751 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:Your friend needs to build for damage and mobility (perma swiftness, leaps, and blinks- every class should have at least one of those three), and only go for events called out near waypoints. Mounts don't make you waypoint faster. If he doesn't have the map fully unlocked then map completion needs to be the priority.

Giving mounts / gliding to those who haven't bought the expansions isn't fair to those who paid. Other than the festival rent-a-mount, don't hold your breath.

I have been working with him on map completion as most of the waypoints are not unlocked yet, but it does take time. I really do not see what would be unfair about a basic mount with no abilities compared to all the mounts with special abilities you get for owning POF.

The point of a game is to unlock everything bit by bit. The core maps were designed without the concept of mounts in mind, it is only normal that lower level characters can't rush through it.

[Kassablanca.5821]

buy both expac they are onsale nowhttps://www.nuuvem.com/bundle/guild-wars-bundle

[kharmin.7683]

@Teratus.2859 said:

Anet will benefit from this as it'll provide a very diserable mobility option for non PoF owners.. as well as a big incentive for them to actually buy PoF.I don't think that it works like that. I believe that players who don't (or haven't) purchased PoF, and get some kind of mount anyway, really won't have a need to purchase PoF for additional mounts. Why would they if they haven't already? PoF isn't so expensive, really.

[Teratus.2859]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

Anet will benefit from this as it'll provide a very diserable mobility option for non PoF owners.. as well as a big incentive for them to actually buy PoF.I don't think that it works like that. I believe that players who don't (or haven't) purchased PoF, and get some kind of mount anyway, really won't have a need to purchase PoF for additional mounts. Why would they if they haven't already? PoF isn't so expensive, really.

Because the mount in my example would be restricted without PoF.. and upgrade upon it's purchase.For the most part people buy expansions for the PvE story and access to new content, not a single feature like mounts or gliding.. and as much as they were cool features advertised for the expansions I never once heard anyone say they bought the expansions exclusively for those features.Adding a restricted mount to core game isn't going to stop people who want PoF from buying it at one point.. if anything it'll encourage them more and make the core content less tedious and more enjoyable for them which will make them want to continue playing.

Players who don't have mounts and can't keep up with a squad or group because everyone else does are far more likely to stop trying or just quit the game entirely because they feel like Gw2 has become pay to win.. and i've seen more than enough threads and comments on the forums here stating that very thing.Even now with the Warclaw coming people are concerned about it breaking WvW.. more so if it will screw non PoF owners who don't have access to mounts since they'll probably end up being run down by mounted players all the time and have no chance of getting away.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Teratus.2859" said:

Players who don't have mounts and can't keep up with a squad or group because everyone else does are far more likely to stop trying or just quit the game entirely because they feel like Gw2 has become pay to win.. and i've seen more than enough threads and comments on the forums here stating that very thing.

Please don't take this personally, but this part of your argument is conjecture. How do you know that players that cannot keep up with a squad don't then purchase PoF so that they can rather than quit the game? Neither of us have any factual statistics or evidence to support either side. And just how many threads on the forums are "more than enough" to support your point? 8? 30? 6,000? Forums in no way represent a majority of the player population.

Anet has made a business decision to release mounts in their expansion based on their own market data and research. Clearly, they have a much better idea than either of us (or anyone else on the forum for that matter) on what method will yield them the highest return or profit.

Who is to say? Perhaps one day they will offer a "basic" mount of some sort for core players, but I would wager that they had already considered this move and, with their data in hand, realized that releasing a core mount would be detrimental to the continued revenue stream from PoF.

None of us will probably ever know.

[Teratus.2859]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:

Players who don't have mounts and can't keep up with a squad or group because everyone else does are far more likely to stop trying or just quit the game entirely because they feel like Gw2 has become pay to win.. and i've seen more than enough threads and comments on the forums here stating that very thing.

Please don't take this personally, but this part of your argument is conjecture. How do you know that players that cannot keep up with a squad don't then purchase PoF so that they can rather than quit the game? Neither of us have any factual statistics or evidence to support either side. And just how many threads on the forums are "more than enough" to support your point? 8? 30? 6,000? Forums in no way represent a majority of the player population.

No, You're right, there are no statistics to show that.My argument there is loosely based on the various threads and posts i've seen from people saying they're leaving Gw2 because they lack mounts and consider it pay to win.I've friends as well who felt that way before they had the expansions and were considering leaving the game because they couldn't keep up, they're more active players now since they were gifted the expansions.

Anet has made a business decision to release mounts in their expansion based on their own market data and research. Clearly, they have a much better idea than either of us (or anyone else on the forum for that matter) on what method will yield them the highest return or profit.

Of course, They definitely know better than I do, I'd never dare say otherwise lolAlthough I still stand by my original statements pre PoF that one of the biggest reasons mounts were even added was because so many players constantly begged for them year after year after year.. despite Anet originally stating that Gw2 would not have mounts.

Who is to say? Perhaps one day they will offer a "basic" mount of some sort for core players, but I would wager that they had already considered this move and, with their data in hand, realized that releasing a core mount would be detrimental to the continued revenue stream from PoF.

None of us will probably ever know.

That's very possible, although from what i've seen/read from a number of players I do believe that a core mount would be a good thing for a lot of people.Anet's data could very well say otherwise.. I have no idea since they don't share that information with us players.. and tbh I probably couldn't make heads or tails of it if they did XDI'm just giving my opinion and an idea on how I think it would best work and how I would do it myself if it were my game.. but i'm no developer clearly.You are right.. it's just my opinion based on my own experience.. and I don't hold it against anyone if they disagree with it.. or if they think my opinions are stupid.We've all the right to make opinions and criticize them ^^

I dunno if it's a fitting analogy but the carrot on a stick thing is far more effective if the carrot is just out of reach but close enough to smell rather than the stick being so long the donkey/horse just doesn't care anymore..I dunno.. that worked in my head but my mind is a total mess of nonsense half the time lmao

[Vayne.8563]

@ShiningSquirrel.3751 said:

@"Gopaka.7839" said:This is what he gets for free... dont see the need for complaining here...buy PoF and thats thatYou need to read more carefully, he is NOT a free player. He paid full price for the heroic edition, but thanks for the unhelpful comment anyway.BTW, even with POF you STILL need to level to 80 unless you use a booster which spoils many parts of the game.

Aside from misusing the free to play player, the person posting has a point. Either support a game you're enjoying or fall behind. Every MMO raises the level cap and there are very few people who don't buy MMOs. Want to play the ultra cool Rit in Guild Wars 1, sorry you need to buy Factions. Want to use the really awesome PvE only skills from Nightfall or EoTN. You buy them. Why is this guy killing so much faster than me? Because he has access to skills and abilities you don't have. The mount falls under the same category.

This is a buy to play game, and it exists because people continue to support it. It's not pay to win like many games, the cash shop isn't as intrusive as most free to play MMOs, and they don't charge $15 a month. At full price Path of Fire is $30 and it's been on sale for $15 at times. That's a one month subscription to WoW or FF XIV, for which you have access to 5 mounts you can get by playing the game.

If your friend won't spend $15 on five mounts to support a game he supposedly enjoys, I don't see why anyone should feel bad that he can't access said mount.

[Ashen.2907]

If someone is not willing to pay for mounts after seeing them in use all around them, then what benefit is giving one free? If they want a mount, and are not willing or able to buy one, then it establishes that they are not willing to buy game elements that they want. How is giving something free to someone who isnt willing to buy your product(s) a good idea?

[Poormany.4507]

Definitely do not see any kind of free mount happening anytime soon, since mounts are and always were the main selling point for PoF. I see a higher chance (still very low) of LWS2, HoT, or some its features (gliding, elites) being added in for free like Core was made FTP years after launch. PoF is way too recent to just throw away those profits from people buying it for mounts. Maybe a simple mount during or after next expac when mounts are not being developed anymore (at least 1.5-2+ years away, considering we still have LWS5 and the pre-expac wait)

[Yamazuki.6073]

Multiple things I don't get...

How does a starter mount for people who won't/can't buy PoF bring money to the game by spending money to make skins for a mount targeted at people who don't want to buy PoF? Especially when PoF often times costs only a little more than a skin and sometimes less...?

What is the point in a starter mount in terms of getting around the map "faster" when only the raptor/beetle actually get around faster due to their abilities, or griffon when you start from height, again, due to abilities? There's a reason why you don't see people on their skimmers/springers to get around the flatter maps, it's slow and they would fall behind the group using them to travel long distances.

In regards to not wanting to spoil the experience of exploring... Doesn't trying to get from point A to B as quickly as you can already do that...? If they're in a rush, it's unlikely they actually care about the experience of exploring.

[Reis.4017]

I agree with lots of ideas in here and want to make a mix of them:

• A starter mount with like 20% less speed than a Raptor (cant be too slow either, because, if so, whats the point?) and a locked skill for when the player buys PoF.
• Take it level 25 in the second map of the zones (like Kessex Hills) so it will increase the joy of exploring experience and decrease the frustation of others leaving you behind. If you think they will lose money for this you really dont understand marketing strategy. They lose money when I player quits the game for having a "pay to win" sensation of the game.
• Once the player buy PoF they unlock its full potential at this mount and get acess to the others. So this starter mount won't be discarded and Anet can make skins for this mount and get profit in it. Even from owners of the expansion since this is all a matter of taste. I can get the joy of ride a beautiful horse just for the skin and chill out.

Edit: Dont come to me with "They should buy the expansions like we did because expansions are PoF content as Gliders are HoT Content". No. Mounts are movements content as gliders. Because they can be used in the core game. Boucing mushrooms and Nuhoch Wallows are HoT content and Volatile Magic Ressonance is a PoF content.

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said:So I have been helping a friend get in to the game. He has the core game so far (Heroic edition not FTP) and like it. There is one issue that has come up however that is souring him on the game and is very frustrating for him. He has leveled enough that he can now do dailies, however it is extremely hard to complete some of them due to not having a mount and competing with players who do. Example, when an event completer daily comes up and he attempts to do it, other players will helpfully post the location for the event or it will show on the map. By the time he runs to that location, the event is over because everyone with a mount got there much faster and completed it. I did explain that he will get mounts eventually but you know how some people "want it now". So I was thinking, would it be that bad to give new players a "default" mount? No special abilities other then movement speed. It could also be a source of revenue by selling skins as well? Any thoughts? I have been thinking about just buying him a waypoint unlock package but that kind of spoils the fun of exploring. Any other suggestions/thoughts?

Tell your friend to buy PoF maybe?

He has POF now, I bought it for him. Some players do not want to go right in to spending another 60 on an expansion before they even know if they are going to like playing the core game.

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said:Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think for my friend, I am just going to give him POF as a gift. I am going to talk him in to NOT using any level boosts on his "main" toon and see what he thinks about creating a new one, level boost to 80 to use to unlock mounts then just use them on his main. This way he can have his mounts and level normally too..

Once he gets PoF he can get raptor at any level as long as he accompanies a level 80 doing that story section. He can hang back and let the level 80 do all the fighting but help with putting out fires and rezzing NPCs for the Heart, then talk to the Heart Vendor at the end to get his Mount. I’ve run a couple low levels through to get a Mount myself so I know it works. He just needs to be sure to get a raptor and not go riding off on his Heart rental raptor. He can also ride in to the city and get waypoints unlocked.

After that he’ll have his Mount, access to the first PoF map for that char, and he can save the level 80 boost for later.Just a flesh wound, thanks for the advice. I bought the expansion for him and took him with me while I did the mission. Got him his mount and he is happy.

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

@iAntigone.2097 said:

@ShiningSquirrel.3751 said:

I have been working with him on map completion as most of the waypoints are not unlocked yet, but it does take time. I really do not see what would be unfair about a basic mount with no abilities compared to all the mounts with special abilities you get for owning POF.

Let's say someone all ready has a character they really like but it's not level 80 yet. But they want to buy POF cause they want to play that content OR have access to the mounts. But they really want to level up their current character by them self's.

What they could do is use the 'FREE' level 80 boost you get from POF and boost a new character. Then use that new character for the sole purpose of doing the first quest in POF for the Raptor mount. As long there is least one level 80 character on the account you can use the mount on any char no matter the level. So at that point they can do back to playing their old character they really like and keep leveling on their own but now they will have a mount.

Already mentioned doing this back towards the middle of the thread.

[ShiningSquirrel.3751]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ShiningSquirrel.3751 said:

@"Gopaka.7839" said:This is what he gets for free... dont see the need for complaining here...buy PoF and thats thatYou need to read more carefully, he is NOT a free player. He paid full price for the heroic edition, but thanks for the unhelpful comment anyway.BTW, even with POF you STILL need to level to 80 unless you use a booster which spoils many parts of the game.

Aside from misusing the free to play player, the person posting has a point. Either support a game you're enjoying or fall behind. Every MMO raises the level cap and there are very few people who don't buy MMOs. Want to play the ultra cool Rit in Guild Wars 1, sorry you need to buy Factions. Want to use the really awesome PvE only skills from Nightfall or EoTN. You buy them. Why is this guy killing so much faster than me? Because he has access to skills and abilities you don't have. The mount falls under the same category.

This is a buy to play game, and it exists because people continue to support it. It's not pay to win like many games, the cash shop isn't as intrusive as most free to play MMOs, and they don't charge $15 a month. At full price Path of Fire is $30 and it's been on sale for $15 at times. That's a one month subscription to WoW or FF XIV, for which you have access to 5 mounts you can get by playing the game.

If your friend won't spend $15 on five mounts to support a game he supposedly enjoys, I don't see why anyone should feel bad that he can't access said mount.

Never said he enjoyed it. He is just getting started and had not decided if he wanted to sink any more money in to something he might end up dropping in a few weeks.