Warclaw killed WvW for me

[Colly.4073]

@"zionophir.6845" said:well, adapt or goto obsidian sanctum and whine incessantly about the warclaw on teamchat.

PVE this way -->https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/guild-wars-2-discussion

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@GaijinGuy.8476 said:

@"Nidome.1365" said:Today I saw enemies bypass walls using warclaw leaps. I am not going to say which walls as I'm not going to help exploiters.The mounts needs to be disabled until the exploit is fixed. The easiest option would be to reduce the leap distance slightly but knowing anet it will probably lead to redesigns of the affected areas.

Why is this not getting any attention? Seriously, I saw a post about this last night on the WvW forum but it has since disappeared.

One of the devs posted on a Reddit thread that they are working to fix as many of these exploits as possible, as fast as possible.

EDIT: linkz0r5 => https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/aydzal/new_day_new_abuse/ei0atui/

[alain.1659]

The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

[Vayne.8563]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.I support the sentiment, but in practice...WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

I think most WvW players, anyone serious, would have purchased PoF for the elite specs anyway. I doubt very many people serious about WvW are free to play players in the first place. I don't suspect they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to make a dent. It's likely new players from this will outweigh free to play players. But it might encourage some of those free to play players to buy the expansion as well.

[Obtena.7952]

@alain.1659 said:The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.I support the sentiment, but in practice...WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

I think most WvW players, anyone serious, would have purchased PoF for the elite specs anyway. I doubt very many people serious about WvW are free to play players in the first place. I don't suspect they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to make a dent. It's likely new players from this will outweigh free to play players. But it might encourage some of those free to play players to buy the expansion as well.

I don't think it's that many people either. I just don't support the statement "let them support the game if they want to play the game" as a sufficient argument for not making Warclaw available. Again, I admire the sentiment; I just don't think it's a great move by ANet if there goal is achieving a vibrant WvW that attracts more people to play.

[Vayne.8563]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.I support the sentiment, but in practice...WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

I think most WvW players, anyone serious, would have purchased PoF for the elite specs anyway. I doubt very many people serious about WvW are free to play players in the first place. I don't suspect they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to make a dent. It's likely new players from this will outweigh free to play players. But it might encourage some of those free to play players to buy the expansion as well.

I don't think it's that many people either. I just don't support the statement "let them support the game if they want to play the game" as a

sufficient

argument for not making Warclaw available. Again, I admire the sentiment; I just don't think it's a great move by ANet if there goal is achieving a vibrant WvW that attracts more people to play.

I don't disagree with you but if it comes to that, most of the best specs for WvW, including some of the best stat sets is locked behind expansion content anyway. They'd already at this point be better off buying the expansion in most cases.

Edited for clarity

[alain.1659]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"alain.1659" said:The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

[Obtena.7952]

@alain.1659 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@alain.1659 said:The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

You don't know what percentage of what people have been asking. That's ridiculous. It's also not a temporary solution, as mounts aren't going away.

[alain.1659]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@alain.1659 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@alain.1659 said:The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

You don't know what percentage of what people have been asking. That's ridiculous. It's also not a temporary solution, as mounts aren't going away.

Please read my post again. I said mount is the %1 of what people have been asking. Not %1 of the population asked for mounts.And again bugs and exploits make us more angry but I never proposed to remove them altogether as I know Anet will commit suicide before accepting the mistakes.

[Darkbeefy.5729]

Mount exploits aside, I think it needs a little more work. I like the idea of mounts but to witness a mount take out all gate guards with no problem at the blink of an eye, and the speed for which an entire map can be flipped is insane, and the list can go on. Someone mentioned CC should be capable of dismounting; this I believe is a great solution. When a percentage of damage has been inflicted... off the mount you go. Yes I have a mount and it is maxed but tbh, I use it only for detection and a quick speed increase when responding to inc calls as this negates the need to use skills etc to increase movement speed. Just my opinion and it may well turn out incorrect over time when the mount achievement zergs settle.

[Arioch.6507]

I thought cherry's went on top of sundae's?? Change is painful, even in a video game. Give it a few weeks (month?) and meta's will emerge. Tags will develop new tactics and everything will be right (as it gets) in WvW again. The hope is new players will come and stay and existing players will adapt and continue. As with everything in life, decisions must be made on whether this game mode is "For You" or not. (You of course meaning the reader not just O.P.) I am not a fan of the mount, but I am willing to give it a go and see if/when it becomes game breaking or not. They (Anet) have stated that it will be tweaked as needed when problems arise. We have seen that in practice already with the multiple updates related to Warclaw. (jump distance, target reduction).

[Duckota.4769]

@"Arioch.6507" said:I thought cherry's went on top of sundae's?? Change is painful, even in a video game. Give it a few weeks (month?) and meta's will emerge. Tags will develop new tactics and everything will be right (as it gets) in WvW again. The hope is new players will come and stay and existing players will adapt and continue. As with everything in life, decisions must be made on whether this game mode is "For You" or not. (You of course meaning the reader not just O.P.) I am not a fan of the mount, but I am willing to give it a go and see if/when it becomes game breaking or not. They (Anet) have stated that it will be tweaked as needed when problems arise. We have seen that in practice already with the multiple updates related to Warclaw. (jump distance, target reduction).

How about no? Im sick of this. Every problem that exists was predicted way in advance of them announcing it was a mount. It happens in mainstream triple A titles too. Its alpha man don't judge it yet. Its beta man give them some time it will be fixed by release. It just released man let them fix it first. Its only been a week man give it a month. Its only been a month man give it more time.

[Arioch.6507]

@Duckota.4769 said:

How about no? Im sick of this. Every problem that exists was predicted way in advance of them announcing it was a mount. It happens in mainstream triple A titles too. Its alpha man don't judge it yet. Its beta man give them some time it will be fixed by release. It just released man let them fix it first. Its only been a week man give it a month. Its only been a month man give it more time.

or don't, that's your choice.

[Vrath.1754]

@Duckota.4769 said:

@"Arioch.6507" said:I thought cherry's went on top of sundae's?? Change is painful, even in a video game. Give it a few weeks (month?) and meta's will emerge. Tags will develop new tactics and everything will be right (as it gets) in WvW again. The hope is new players will come and stay and existing players will adapt and continue. As with everything in life, decisions must be made on whether this game mode is "For You" or not. (You of course meaning the reader not just O.P.) I am not a fan of the mount, but I am willing to give it a go and see if/when it becomes game breaking or not. They (Anet) have stated that it will be tweaked as needed when problems arise. We have seen that in practice already with the multiple updates related to Warclaw. (jump distance, target reduction).

How about no? Im sick of this. Every problem that exists was predicted way in advance of them announcing it was a mount. It happens in mainstream triple A titles too. Its alpha man don't judge it yet. Its beta man give them some time it will be fixed by release. It just released man let them fix it first. Its only been a week man give it a month. Its only been a month man give it more time.

I tend to agree with your point. Anet was extremely short sighted with this deployment. Its clear they did almost no testing or if they did it just enforces how out of touch they are with the playerbase. Otherwise they would have toned the mount down and addressed the ways into structures ahead of time. Or just not made it a freaking combat mount it's so simple it makes one wonder what was their actual goal with this other then sell more mount skins?

Over all this was a poor deployment by Anet with no forethought for the future. By adding a battle mount to the game mode by default it will turn some long time players off and we'll lose them, maybe it gets balanced out by the amount of new people who tried WvW and enjoyed this interaction of it.

However what about 2 months from now? When a new player joins? They cant keep up with their team, they cant get there in time to partake in capture of objectives or fights. Then they are continually pounced on and killed by an enemy faction they cannot get away from no matter their build. They'll feel frustrated and less likely to stick around.This will lead to less new players sticking around as it won't be fun and it will take them much longer to get the mount then current players. It'll be a slow trickle of the population shrinking, tell they add the next ridiculous mount into WvW that negates even more of things people love.

[Obtena.7952]

@alain.1659 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@alain.1659 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@alain.1659 said:The frustrating thing is not the mount itself but the priority of it. There were already bugs and problems in wvw, wishes from player base, issues that needed addressing, balance needs, ideas, suggestions. And what Anet did was to give a mount. OK. There are a lot of ideas on that, personally i hate the current version of it (needs speed reduce, should not be cap points on mount etc) but the real problem is not that either. Anet did not fix the necessary parts, did not bring any proper balance. They did bring a mount with full of bugs and exploits. This is the part where it gets me frustrated. They are constantly nerfing and trying to fix it now. For the love of god not even one staff tried the mount before release? Shouldn't they know about their own game, at least more than a casual wvw player?

I keep seeing this but what people don't realize is that mounts ARE a solution to many of the things people were asking to get fixed, including people that avoided WvW for those issues. Yup, game changes, some people like and some don't, that's how it works but the overall here is that many issues have been addressed. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY the way people wanted them, but still, they have been. The balance issue ... that's never going away. in fact, as the game adds more choice for players, it can only get worse, at best stay at some 'fringe' level of broken; people should be making decisions based on the history of the game, not what they hope will happen.

What is really important here is to take away the general trend that Anet listens to players and continually improves the game with novel ideas that make it enjoyable for more people. If you don't like mounts in WvW, simply don't use them .. or adapt to 'deal' with people using them (I've already seen some discussion on how to do so ... they don't make players immune to roamers)

I understand what you are saying, but sorry friend you are wrong. Warclaw is just %1 of what people have been asking. It is a temporary solution and in a couple of months it will be seen. But again, all would be "oh, ok, maybe this is a beginning" if there were not so many bugs. Not a single argumeny in the world can cover anet's first mount release. Some exploits were(and some still are) so fundamental that one wonders if they ever really thought about this well. Still I hope it is a good start for wvw.

Ps: As for adapting I will try and find a build after the smoke clears. Will swap to a different profession. Maybe we can share ideas about it in a different topic. I love buildcrafting.

You don't know what percentage of what people have been asking. That's ridiculous. It's also not a temporary solution, as mounts aren't going away.

Please read my post again. I said mount is the %1 of what people have been asking. Not %1 of the population asked for mounts.And again bugs and exploits make us more angry but I never proposed to remove them altogether as I know Anet will commit suicide before accepting the mistakes.

And you don't know that percent either. It's semantics anyways; Anet fixes problems people highlight, not implement the ideas players have to solve them. Mount does that.

[Wafu.9247]

redacted..

[MrSilver.5269]

I've been playing since Beta. This was the last straw for me. I logged off, uninstalled, and downloaded a new title. Had a lot of fun playing this game but it is time to move on.

[Redponey.8352]

I have unlock the mount and even if i'm completly against it, i have tried it this week-end. Result?
1) Maps arent made for mount.2) Zerg fights resume into the biggest zerg win and onepush, so fight is actually onepushed or being onepushed (less than 5sec)3) Zerg fight lag more than ever before.4) a lot of WvW people are disguting from this mount. create a non fun fight, just number matter.5) a lot of new comers will soon understand that WvW is no more than banana farming (PvE) and fight to win doesnt matter.

you will promote WvW to new comers only if the gamemode is healthly and bring a long term interest but it doesnt now.

[onemanmmo.1384]

I am a part-time WvW player. Today was the worst. It is impossible for runners to keep up with a mounted zerg. I spent my first half an hour just running, trying to catch up to the commander on the map before I realized I would never catch up. Runners can't afford the time to pick up supply or harvest from synthesizers, and squads are spread across the width of the map. With Arenanet's boosts, plus a WvW boost and banners, in five hours I managed just 20% of the reward track. Contrast that to a couple days ago, played 2 hours, finished 30% but people didn't have mounts yet.

New people are going to be runners, and if they can't help capture camps and keeps they're not going to stay.

[Eramonster.2718]

The Warclaw really tilted the balance in WvW. Gliding have it advantages BUT it didn't give the player abilities that can interfere with combat, damage and such. Eg. The result of having a fully mounted blob squad vs a blob squad without mount is very clear.

[Redponey.8352]

@Eramonster.2718 said:The Warclaw really tilted the balance in WvW. Gliding have it advantages BUT it didn't give the player abilities that can interfere with combat, damage and such. Eg. The result of having a fully mounted blob squad vs a blob squad without mount is very clear.

and the possibility of the mounted blob to easily cross over a wide area (3dodges)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

[Obtena.7952]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

I would place the restriction on the attacker to slow/chill/immobilize etc ... the mounted target if they want to engage in combat that bad. Let's be honest here ... the point of the warclaw is to give an edge to travelling players who DON'T want to be picked off roaming. I don't think they should be immune to roamers and maybe warclaw is tuned too much to avoid roaming encounters BUT ...

Roamers should have to think about how they are going to engage and address players on warclaws, not just ask for Anet to screw mounted players from one of the advantages of the mount.

[NuhDah.9812]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

I would place the restriction on the attacker to slow/chill/immobilize etc ... the mounted target if they want to engage in combat that bad. Let's be honest here ... the point of the warclaw is to give an edge to travelling players who DON'T want to be picked off roaming. I don't think they should be immune to roamers and maybe warclaw is tuned too much to avoid roaming encounters BUT ...

Roamers should have to think about how they are going to engage and address players on warclaws, not just ask for Anet to screw mounted players from one of the advantages of the mount.

There wuold still be advantages to the mount in the way that engaging bursts which are usually resource costly will not affect you anymore, and travel speed while out of combat is better overall. I mean yea why not, make it remain fast if engaged, but why not tie that to active play, prediction, awareness and basic combat skill? If you are prone to enemy engagement, just use your mount dodge at the right time to keep out of combat and your distance away from pursuers. Just saying.