Warclaw killed WvW for me

[SkyShroud.2865]

I think the mount is ok except for....

1. Movement is excessively fast, especially with mastery.
2. Immunity to ANY forms of cc
3. Instant kill down mastery, this give larger zerg/blob too much advantage. Why? The larger zerg/blob can afford to split people up to dpser and down killers. They dps the people down and send mount in to clean up, especially the fact that mount don't get cc allow the mount to do it easily. This also means the larger group likely to always win rally battle.

[Deaeira.2651]

@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

If it outruns someone speccing for speed it is way too fast. The 10k additional health pool means engaging a roamer is a bad idea as well. Just leads to people passing each other by instead of fighting.

[Deaeira.2651]

@Obtena.7952 said:It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Sure roamers will adapt... more cheese builds, waiting at objectives instead of active chases, dropping mobility for more damage. It removes tons of variety but doesnt give much fun.

[Reh.5986]

Got to be a way to slow them down or CC them. Also need to punish the player for being dismounted. Maybe half health and CC'd. They're a pain to catch, a pain to dismount and then you're left with your burst on cooldown. It could still work out but what I've seen so far is insanely annoying.

[Duckota.4769]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:I think the mount is ok except for....

1. Movement is excessively fast, especially with mastery.
2. Immunity to ANY forms of cc
3. Instant kill down mastery, this give larger zerg/blob too much advantage. Why? The larger zerg/blob can afford to split people up to dpser and down killers. They dps the people down and send mount in to clean up, especially the fact that mount don't get cc allow the mount to do it easily. This also means the larger group likely to always win rally battle.

So everything is okay except for everything about the mount. I mean I agree with you but its funny how you put that lmao.

[Deaeira.2651]

@XECOR.2814 said:Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

There are multiple exits from the spawn... it takes quite a bunch of people to cover all of them. Moreover, it's good practice to return to the zerg at least in pairs.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

I would place the restriction on the attacker to slow/chill/immobilize etc ... the mounted target if they want to engage in combat that bad. Let's be honest here ... the point of the warclaw is to give an edge to travelling players who DON'T want to be picked off roaming. I don't think they should be immune to roamers and maybe warclaw is tuned too much to avoid roaming encounters BUT ...

Roamers should have to think about how they are going to engage and address players on warclaws, not just ask for Anet to screw mounted players from one of the advantages of the mount.

it took 5 players to dismount another guy and that only happened because he was in our territory.

roamers can no longer really do their jobs anymore as in, stopping re-informants going from garri/x stopping enemys from going to camps because they will just troll around. very silly the mounts are.

[displayname.8315]

@Redponey.8352 said:I have unlock the mount and even if i'm completly against it, i have tried it this week-end. Result?

1) Maps arent made for mount.They seem compatable to me did you die falling or something?2) Zerg fights resume into the biggest zerg win and onepush, so fight is actually onepushed or being onepushed (less than 5sec)If someone gets one-pushed or dies in under 5 secs that has nothing to do with the mount. That's L2P issue.3) Zerg fight lag more than ever before.Don't think theres any more lag for me anyways4) a lot of WvW people are disguting from this mount. create a non fun fight, just number matter.Fighting outnumbered is hard. Don't just yolo and try 1 pushing that's not gunna work.

[Aeolus.3615]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:I think the mount is ok except for....

1. Movement is excessively fast, especially with mastery.
2. Immunity to ANY forms of cc
3. Instant kill down mastery, this give larger zerg/blob too much advantage. Why? The larger zerg/blob can afford to split people up to dpser and down killers. They dps the people down and send mount in to clean up, especially the fact that mount don't get cc allow the mount to do it easily. This also means the larger group likely to always win rally battle.

I dont mind the invun to cc, altough since they are ment to support rams their design should be bunky and slow supporting players using the rams with its skills.. the thing is ... its not beign used for that XD....IMO mounts should be more sturdy, and slower.

[road range.6293]

I just finally just got the WC mount. Truthfully, I still don't even want it. (I really don't)

I've actually just been playing without one, and, watching what it has already done to WvW, as more and more people are getting them. And, I think it honestly just looks pretty sad. Watching WvW play out now has all the excitement of watching raptor racing in the Labyrinth. But it is decidedly less thrilling, because everyone is on the same exact mounts. If they are playing the game at all, they leap in, gank people, and leap out. Leap around in a zerg together, clash, and explode. Rinse. Repeat. And, clearly, you can't escape if you don't have one.

Mostly it’s just people running around on mounts like it’s a festival in DR or LA. Game over.

Seems to me, that the mounts in PvE ultimately made repeatedly getting end-game world completion content, ie., "Gifts of Exploration" done faster. And, thus made crafting legendary items much easier and faster in PVE. I seriously suspect that WVW mounts were primarily put there to (aside from making skin money) appease the PvE players' voices. Who absolutely don't want to be in WvW anyway, so they can finally get in to WvW, run around, (EOTM style, and, wintersday style) avoid combat, and seemingly get their repeating end game "Gifts of Battle" tracks done quicker for crafting legendary items, and get out.

It was all seemingly implemented without much regard to what it would actually do to WvW game play. I honestly don't otherwise see how anyone felt that putting every single player in WvW on identical mounts, which all possess identical skills, (and they possess fighting skills no less) was going to be fun, or, desirable for long term players. (And different mounts with different skills is about the only thing that could make it worse IMHO. So, I’m fully expecting that soon, along with mount racing in WvW too. )

So, you simply HAVE to use a mount to play WvW now. It's basically mandatory because you can't just forfeit a mobility and stability advantage like that. And, as usual, it was virtually an irreversible change to the game.

It also seems suspicious to me, as though someone was somehow still trying, (in vain), to finally do something to fix the oversized, underused, never well liked, desert boarder lands. By introducing the mounts to WvW, just to make the DBL map finally feel smaller? (not gonna work for me anyway.)

So, I say: If mounts are going to be in WvW fighting, they should at least be killable! The mount’s skills should focus on knocking down and killing other’s mounts. In the end it would only amount to yet another layer of health buff. Eh, they already are nothing more than that now.

So, I vote, if we can’t get rid of them, and if we absolutely have to have them in WvW combat. Let’s vote to be able to down em, and kill the mounts! The carnage should litter the battlefield, since it is live PvP combat. And maybe we should even use them for food buffs, and cube steak them, and eat their meat drops in the heat of battle for protein buffs! Like a war pet, once they are dead, they should absolutely stay dead, until you can repair, or regenerate them, at a spawn. They should be damageable too. And a proper strike should knock players off their mounts straight away! The mounts should be poison-able, root-able, and chop-able into little pieces-able. (If a flame ram can be poisoned, a mount surely can be!) You should be able to trap them, and they should knock their players off when trapped. They should have a mind of their own, and refuse jumps, and knock their own players off randomly. Now, we are talking about possibly having some decent mounted PvP combat! (But only since they are never going away now, and, Pandora’s box should not have been opened in the first place. But it was.). So far, IMHO, as it stands, these are currently just game mode ruining Lion’s Arch trinkets for wasting time on, which are ironically, now somehow mandatory, for health buff, speed, and stability.

If they are going to be a part of the battle, make ‘em bleed.

[Eramonster.2718]

So, you simply HAVE to use a mount to play WvW now. It's basically mandatory because you can't just forfeit a mobility and stability advantage like that. And, as usual, it was virtually an irreversible change to the game.Damage is done.

There's reasons why the mounts(raptors, jackal etc) are not allowed in WvW when PoF was out. Because they give combat advantages; health, can't be cc'd, engage capabilities etc. Mobility is a problem but this is beyond that. This addition into WvW has such a big oversight.

It's as if releasing a skin that actually gives advantages for having it in game. :disappointed:

[Irbis.4932]

I am just curious about the state of wvw after the initial hype and temporary population boost wear of :#

[Vlad Filen.8049]

i hated the idea , but WvW team made it well , not too fast , a 2nd health bar if you were on Zerg build and aggression is no more a thing

[Burnfall.9573]

Warclaw killed WvW for me

@"HazyDaisy.4107" said:They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

For the past 6 years+ since GW2 was released; the community primary complaints was to remove-reduce toxicity in every shape or form that counters fun and the competitive scene in the game.

That's it!! That's all they-the community has asked for.

Fast forward; why are almost the same complaints are repeating itself 6 years later?

As i had already said; the problem here is not necessarily the mounts being added to wvw but the intent to avoid wvw problems instead of directly addressing them by adding adding mounts, is simply wrong and mean. It does not work, will not work in the long run; 6 years of Gw2 history already taught us that,

What will all that result in is, Anet adding more mounts to wvw as a revolving temporary solution.

I assure you -in my opinion- Mounts are the new temporary solution to silence the community concerns

I feel this fits right with what i stated -in my opinion

'Don';t complain, shhh...Don't say a word..here are new mounts, more mounts for you'

[Drecien.4508]

@Deaeira.2651 said:

@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

If it outruns someone speccing for speed it is way too fast. The 10k additional health pool means engaging a roamer is a bad idea as well. Just leads to people passing each other by instead of fighting.

I did that anyway. You pass by when you don't want to pvp. Run to capture the tower.

[Ashen.2907]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Eramonster.2718 said:Now allows you to catch up with tagged commanders, but leaving other players without mounts behind is perfectly fine? :anguished:

It's fine because it doesn't take that long to get a mount. Right now you have all sorts of imbalances in things with new players, even so much as taking less damage from siege damage, or taking less damage from guards or doing more damage to guards. Getting a mount won't take that long, even for relatively new players.

Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

Also people who did buy PoF (and have supported the game by spending thousands of dollars on gems) but dont like mounts.

[Ashen.2907]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

• Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
• Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

[Obtena.7952]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

• Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
• Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there could be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make".

[coro.3176]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

• Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
• Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".

The goal of roaming is player-efficiency.

If WvW worked the way it was designed to work, it would be a valuable role.

It's wasteful for a group of 60 zerglings to attack a keep with most of them standing around for multiple minutes at a time. It's wasteful for a commander to be flipping an objective with 60 players when 40 would do. Those extra 20 players could be spread around the map flipping other objectives at the same time. Due to the way RI works, it can be MASSIVELY inefficient for a zerg to be running around with 60 people and have to sit and wait for up to 5 minutes for supply from a camp or for a wall to come down on a keep.

Dolyak sniping / protection also encourage roaming. The enemy will never upgrade their objectives if roamers are killing their supply from camps. It only takes 1 player to completely shut down an avenue of supply to multiple objectives by flipping the camp or killing the yaks.

Now, currently in practice this doesn't happen because the game is much less about careful use of supply and more about K-training. Whoever has the biggest blob just takes it and steamrolls everything in their path for hours at a time until everyone logs off. This is partly because winning doesn't matter. If winning did matter (like in a tournament), I guarantee you'd see a lot more small groups flipping objectives, fighting over dolyaks and ruins, etc.

[Obtena.7952]

@coro.3176 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

• Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
• Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".

The goal of roaming is player-efficiency.

If WvW worked the way it was designed to work, it would be a valuable role.

Right ... it doesn't work the way it was designed, so roaming isn't as valuable a role. So there isn't much value in Anet maintaining it at the expense of higher value to players.

Frankly, I can imagine there is a place for the zerg, small group activities and solo roamers in WvW, but the truth is that the practical approach is to design and work around how players interact with the game mode to better serve them, not maintain strict ideas about what WvW should be and force that onto people.

[Tiny Doom.4380]

@Drecien.4508 said:

@Fish.2769 said:

@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

When in an enemy zone sure, not when in a zone you own, people on foot even with swiftness get left in the dust.

Then time to mount up

Not until they fix the inertia that causes instant nausea and motion sickness. Same issue with all mounts, ignored since POF launch. If it doesn't affect you, and it doesn't affect many, it seems, then no problem, mounts are great. If it does, WvW was one of the few remaining parts of GW2 where you could play on an equal footing with others. Not any more.

[alain.1659]

Just a question, how do you people play with all this lag when two zergs fight? I mean the lag was so bad that I could just move frame by frame. This is the first time I experience lag this bad. Worse than 3 head sm fights. All the problems aside, what the hell is this lag?

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"KingPuki.1075" said:First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust)Actually, some people explained how they didn't like aquatic combat in WvW, that it favored certain classes, and wasn't very fun.And even at this day there's still bugged behaviors like when a ranger is drowning and you interrupt, push away and even kill the pets, and the damn things just wobble back to the ranger and keep reviving.

Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for.Again, people asked for a way to protect siege & walls. (Maybe not Shield Gens specifically, but those do get that particular job done.)People indeed wanted more counters to siege other than getting to where the enemy is and destroying the siege.

Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw,Tons of people asked for that, especially for Desert.And many of those who didn't wanted it changed their mind when they saw how it worked. And it would have been impossible to add if they didn't also introduce the wonderful territory system with it.That system has great untapped potential. Thanks to it we could get things like a week even in which we try having 'risk rules' and you can't capture a territory unless its touching one of yours.

and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts.And again, lots & lots of people have been asking for WvW mounts since PoF was announced.The first I can remember was Angry Joe in his famous GW2 video.

Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!!Some people said, "please, Balthazar, give us mounts."And a very few of us said "We already have mounts! Golems are basically mounts! So it's too late for 'no mounts' what we have to see now is how they are going to be, not whether they are gong to be or not".I'm happy to say that most of the things I was worried about like people springing into towers and keeps to defend them without having to go anywhere near the door have been addressed by having a single WvW-exclusive mount that can be fixed and tweaked in the future just for it.

And we got em anyways,At the point they made the announcement, it was a done deal. It was going to happen regardless of feedback at that point.Many features we get have been planned for a very long time, and they can't be stopped because they count on them to fund the game.

I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..You spent 2 hours on it and compared it to your 3000 hours of experience? you might want to give some more time before coming to any conclusions, especially since you were set against it before yesterday.Well, there's nothing we can do about that. There's always people who will like or and people who will dislike new features. All they can do is getting used to it, putting up with it, or give up on it.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

• Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
• Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".That just sounds like word sallad to me.

Its really quite simple.

On a border with 10 objectives, the borderzerg have the capacity to cover 1 objective. The "solo roamers" have the capacity to cover the other 9 objectives.

[Ashen.2907]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

@coro.3176 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

• Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
• Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".

Well, I was responding to the point about players being unable to adapt. But, in response to your question, I guess the answer would have to be, "fun."

For years now roaming has been fun (for some of us). It wasnt forced on anyone, just a fun option for those desiring it. Now? Less fun (for me at least). I have never had a problem with adapting to a changing game paradigm. But, in this case, adopting the new paradigm results in a lessening of enjoyment. This is not a matter of inability to adapt.