Warclaw killed WvW for me

[Dawdler.8521]

@Redponey.8352 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I don't think the mount was a good idea for WvW, but I don't think it's all that harmful either.

My singular concern is the impact it has vis a vis by creating a gap between players who have the mount, and those who don't. If you didn't have HoT or even points put into gliding, it wasn't a big deal for most of the maps aside from desert BL. Gliding is convenient, but you could find yourself playing for an hour without using it. I don't think the same will be said for the mount, given it's a speed increase over what you can attain with swiftness.

Anyone without a mount will be at a disadvantage against those who do, or even playing with/beside friendly players who do, which shortly will be everyone, so this will be a big hurdle for new players.

this add is market strategy for gemstore skin and "force" people to buy PoF to be able to play decently in WvW. WvW? they dont care about it, otherwise they would have been fix major issue long time ago and could had real content in WvW.

That why WvW actually remain only on PoF Class (FB Scourge, Mirage etc) and Mount.And in the wake of the firings this is what people have been

desperate

for more ways to monetize the game... then when its there the entire forum is pikachu face.

I dont really mind that part. PoF and the mount is now mandatory, end of story. Everything else is a "here is WvW, this is what you could be doing if you buy PoF" trial. Fine by me. Dont care. Most WvWers already have it (because we all know why, yes).

I dont know if this is what Anet intended, but thats what they get by this implementation.

[MiniMe.1960]

@"KingPuki.1075" said:I really love WvW but we have seen so many changes noone that plays WvW asked for. First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust) Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for. Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw, and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts. Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!! And we got em anyways, and they're destroying our game mode, and our mechanics we fell in love with.

I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..

Please bring back old school WvW!!

Not gonna happen mate. Gliding stayed so will the mount. But you may join me in the corner. Maybe if we cry "STEREO" we get some attention. :(

[bq pd.2148]

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:They asked for new blood...

They asked for a way to finish downs faster...

They complained about mesmer and thief dominating roaming/ganking/whatever trendy term is used to describe that these days....

They said wvw was lacking fights in every tier and there were never any ques...

They got mounts and complain about:

Pvers...

Downs being finished faster

Mobility classes being at a disadvantage in roaming

Lag and ques...

The wvw community is devided on this

If you want to see Unity in opinion? I suggesti another place then a forum to look for IT...

My sarcasm wasn't about unity, it wasn't about balance either which somehow another quoter managed to read into the post.

[Jen.6021]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

[bq pd.2148]

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

i personally dont have issues avoiding ganks, i have mostly been the ganker.yes the mount wont solve all issues WvW has to attract a wider audience, there is plenty more issues. so more changes need to happen, glad that you see that.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to be against the mount, is 'mount doesnt solve all the problems in the mode' seems a joke, because that is meaningless to complain about something being only a step in to a more populated future than a full on solution for everything.

[Jen.6021]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

i personally dont have issues avoiding ganks, i have mostly been the ganker.yes the mount wont solve all issues WvW has to attract a wider audience, there is plenty more issues. so more changes need to happen, glad that you see that.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to be against the mount, is 'mount doesnt solve all the problems in the mode' seems a joke, because that is meaningless to complain about something being only a step in to a more populated future than a full on solution for everything.

Thats not even my strongest argument, you just trying to flip the words that i never said, sry but you arent looking very smart atm, what i think about the mount is already posted in several other threads, even in the one that i created, suggesting specific changes to the mount in order to keep it and make the game mode viable again, for all kinds of players.But if you didnt get it then i wont waste more time.

[bq pd.2148]

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

i personally dont have issues avoiding ganks, i have mostly been the ganker.yes the mount wont solve all issues WvW has to attract a wider audience, there is plenty more issues. so more changes need to happen, glad that you see that.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to be against the mount, is 'mount doesnt solve all the problems in the mode' seems a joke, because that is meaningless to complain about something being only a step in to a more populated future than a full on solution for everything.

Thats not even my strongest argument, you just trying to flip the words that i never said, sry but you arent looking very smart atm, what i think about the mount is already posted in several other threads, even in the one that i created, suggesting specific changes to the mount in order to keep it and make the game mode viable again, for all kinds of players.But if you didnt get it then i wont waste more time.

i am sorry i do not stalk other peoples posts, unless i remember reading them somewhere i wont know what you have posted somewhere else.here in what i quoted,. it was only specifically about having a mount or not, not potential changes to keep the mount.for example i am rather certain that in the future you will be able to dismount an opponent with your engage skill. in the stream before the mount the devs said that they were thinking to make the chain an alternative engage to dismount both, but didnt go for it for now. the statement in the stream:

somehow it starts at a differnt time in the forum than if you enter the link. it starts at 36:35.

[XenesisII.1540]

@XECOR.2814 said:Mobility was balanced OMEGALUL.

wheres my necro mobility?

Basically what happened is that gankers need 2more brain cells to kill players by baiting their mount dodges and autoattacking them. But i guess thats too much to ask of them. Also i agree with your other points but this one gave me a good chuckle.

Mobility in regards to attrition warfare.

Signet of the LocustSpectral WalkLocust SwarmDeath's ChargeQuickening ThirstTrail of AnguishSand Swell

Oh ok the gankers now need 2 more brain cells, but the idiots that ran in a straight line from point a to point b before, I guess it was too much as ask them to put in a little more effort to be smarter and go around to avoid gankers huh.

Enjoy your laugh at wvw's expense.

[XECOR.2814]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:Mobility was balanced OMEGALUL.

wheres my necro mobility?

Basically what happened is that gankers need 2more brain cells to kill players by baiting their mount dodges and autoattacking them. But i guess thats too much to ask of them. Also i agree with your other points but this one gave me a good chuckle.

Mobility in regards to attrition warfare.

Signet of the LocustSpectral WalkLocust SwarmDeath's ChargeQuickening ThirstTrail of AnguishSand Swell

Oh ok the gankers now need 2 more brain cells, but the idiots that ran in a straight line from point a to point b before, I guess it was too much as ask them to put in a little more effort to be smarter and go around to avoid gankers huh.

Enjoy your laugh at wvw's expense.

Yes avoid gankers with far more superior mobility. Mobility on ranger/thief/mesmer is busted in wvw and you know it but since this is forums anyone can write anything and get away with it because people dont have much knowledge of whats the case anyway.

Btw muh roamer muh big brain1button rapid fire, backstab, coronoburst and aa stealth and disengage. Literally uses 1 combo from stealth or out of range of enemy skills. Stop spreading the narrative that roamers are any greater skilled than any other player. In fact ive only seen people like these use cheap ways to win a fight 5v1'ing a player and running away 1v1 or even 2v1 because they are scared that they might die.

[XECOR.2814]

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

[GaijinGuy.8476]

@Nidome.1365 said:Today I saw enemies bypass walls using warclaw leaps. I am not going to say which walls as I'm not going to help exploiters.The mounts needs to be disabled until the exploit is fixed. The easiest option would be to reduce the leap distance slightly but knowing anet it will probably lead to redesigns of the affected areas.

Why is this not getting any attention? Seriously, I saw a post about this last night on the WvW forum but it has since disappeared.

[Jen.6021]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

I do trust you, i know it, i been doing my self too, with my guild, i been in both sides, so i perfectly know what im talking about, you can always find an alternative, just only talking about spawn, you already have 3 exits, thats actually a factor that you should consider, that gank group is buying time, thats the way of how cutting reinforcements works.Im not gonna deny about the power creep balance, i know it, but you cant just respawn and walk outside alone if you see 3-5 guys waiting, mindless zerglings just go and feed, can wait for a few more on respawn, or like i said just move around, map awareness.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Personally i like the mount in wvw. Makes it way easier to get back into the fight if you wp. Now it has become more action oriented. I hated the long trek to zerg thats on the other side. Now it not too bad.

[XECOR.2814]

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@XECOR.2814 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

I do trust you, i know it, i been doing my self too, with my guild, i been in both sides, so i perfectly know what im talking about, you can always find an alternative, just only talking about spawn, you already have 3 exits, thats actually a factor that you should consider, that gank group is buying time, thats the way of how cutting reinforcements works.Im not gonna deny about the power creep balance, i know it, but you cant just respawn and walk outside alone if you see 3-5 guys waiting, mindless zerglings just go and feed, can wait for a few more on respawn, or like i said just move around, map awareness.

If im zerging as a necro i just stay dead and hope our zerg wins and rezzes if tag is really really far away from spawn. I had enough of gankers LUL.

[Eramonster.2718]

Now allows you to catch up with tagged commanders, but leaving other players without mounts behind is perfectly fine? :anguished:

[LetoII.3782]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@XECOR.2814 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Mechanix.9315" said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Warlord.9074" said:No one as in an unrepresentative, insignificant amount, of vocal minority players, ask for things all the time that most people don't want. or care for because A. there is either no need for such a thing or B. their lack of experience prevents them from understanding why that is. So when we say no one we mean literally no one as in majority of us didn't ask. Anet has always catered to players that really do not speak for everyone in their demands, just because something isn't easy enough for them etc. Or because we allow players who don't even play wvw to have a say in what goes on there, to be inclusive to no one that plays that game mode.

But no one, as you use it, is not necessarily a minority. There's also no guarantee that the majority of people active on the forums are the majority of the playerbase, a common misconception. One dev after he left Lotro said that only 10% of the playerbase ever raided or did PvP.... that's over the whole life of the game. But that 10% accounted for a full 50% of all forum posts. It makes it look like a lot of people asking the same thing, but it was a lot of people from only 10% of the playerbase. It's likely, at least in the case of lotro that the casual majority of the playerbase, who didn't post on forums with as much alacrity was going to want something completely different. You just didn't hear from them.

Before HoT came out, all you heard on the forums was people complaining, loudly and in numbers, that there wasn't enough challenging content. But then, when HoT came out, the most challenging content in the game, it wasn't well received, and enough people stopped playing over it that Anet had to go back and make it more solo friendly and easier for casuals. They used an entire quarterly patch to do this for a reason. When POF came out, they made it easier than HOT and more soloable. Why? Because experience taught them that the majority aren't always going to be the people who are doing the asking.

Saying most people didn't ask for this is misleading. One of the things I dislike most about WvW is the long runs back to what I was doing if I die. And sometimes, I'm going to die. The long runs back made it less fun for me and after that happened a couple of times, I'd just log out.

I'm no expert WvW player but I am over rank 800 and I do have some experience, including quite a few good times. The mount will keep a player like me in WvW for a longer period of time. I asked for it. And saying no one asked for it is dismissive to those of us who did.

You with your point of view, and me with the opposite point view, we both are the minority here.I mainly play wvw for all these years, and i never cared too much about the forum untill the announcement of the World Restructuring, you know what, we been talking a lot with fellow server-mates in teamchat, for a lot of months, and probs 95% didnt know about it, they also never read forums, and for sure they arent doing it right now neither.So the logic about this will "keep players like YOU in wvw for a longer period of time" its exactly the same as say that this "keep players like ME in wvw for a shorter period of time in wvw" if not quit completetly.

The main difference that you should consider, is the people who spent more time on the game mode, anet can easily get stats, and know how to contact them, even in-game, actually they should getting those stats to develop the alliance system. So as developer you should priorize the feedback of the most experienced people, the ones who never quit because "was being killed running back to their zerg".People who over many years invested time, a lot of time, gold/money (remember before we had to actually pay for upgrades), siege, stress, developing communities, people suporting teamspeak servers, and etc etc, i can keep going.

The issue is most players don't play WvW at all. So the question is why don't they. And if you don't think running around a big map with no mount, not being able to easily get back to where they were when they die doesn't factor in, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm going to say I believe that the vast majority of the playerbase, not just the majority, but the vast majority is casual. Dead set casual. I don't count myself as part of that majority but I see too much of it to discount it. It's not about the people I play with or talk to. It's a broad cross section of the playerbase that still doesn't know what a breakbar is.

Those people are going to look at WvW with less than hardcore eyes. You want to get some people in there, you add shiny stuff. That's how you do it. Some of those people will come in to get the shiny stuff and a small percentage will find they like it and stay. That's how you get numbers up.

I may not be a majority and you might not be a majority but there is a majority out there. And that majority doesn't play WvW at all.

The majority of the playerbase is pve playerbase, thats a fact, thats why this game never had or will have open world pvp, like many others mmo, and to answer your question, thats basically all you need to know, the pve playerbase dont like/enjoy pvp gamemodes.

Yes, you force or lets say, give some incentive, to the "casual" people to try out pvp game modes, like happened in spvp actually with the legendary backpack, you know already how that ended, all the people who got the shiny left already, pvp is back to be virtually dead. This is also a perfect example, because pvpers (besides the toxic ones)never complained about the influx of casual/pve people, because was actually healthy to the mode. but guess what, anet didnt change anything to the game mode in order the bring that influx of players, which is the case of the mount in wvw, they added a "mechanic" that will last even after the "casuals" leave again because they got the shiny thing.

But the mount itself IS a change. so there's no telling that that won't actually affect the desire of some people who previously sneered at WvW to give it a try. You're right, PvP didn't change....WvW did. If it didn't we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

Yes i realized i had a typo sorry.

I meant exactly that, pvp didnt change to get influx of players, so pvpers didnt complain.But wvw did change the gamemode in order to get influx of players, thats the main difference, and the source of all this.We agree, and my point of view was trying to answer that, when all the casuals/fairweather people leave, the mount will still there, for a lot of people that didnt want it from the begining.

you start with the assumption that noone will stay in WvW for more in the long run and because of that it just affects the veteran players. but every change affects all potential players of the mode, meaning also players that didnt spent much time in there before the patch.if you only cater to veterans you keep them but they will bleed out with time due to RL, other games, boredom etc. therefor changes also have to cater for players that before the changes wouldnt be playing the mode much in order to have more players in the long run. mounts reduce the traveltime, less walking more action will keep more people. it also will reduce ganks on the road, wich i think do keep alot of people out of the mode. losing a fight for a camp is one thing, getting killed because you didnt switch to roaming build when joining the map till you reach the commander however will be precieved much more negatively.

Yes, some might stay, lets says 5%, 10%, 15%, those will stay because the mount traveling speed and avoid gank, then what? they will also have many more issues in the road, they will face super unbalanced matchups and get spawn camped, they will be farmed non stop by guilds running the most broken meta while they dont learn anything about it being a pug, they will find the classic toxicity of each server between the "ppt people" vs the "fight people". They will face endless different issues that wvw have been carrying for many years, because anet never did anything to solve them. WvW isnt a friendly playground, this isnt PvE, the people who play it knows how to endure the nature of a unbalanced environment, we dont even have fixed stats like amulet system.

So excuse me, but if the strongest argument you have to defend the mount, is "i dont know how to cross the map without being killed, so now i can stay in wvw" seems a joke, because thats meaningless compared to the real problems that wvw have, and im really sure the "casuals" wont endure it long enough.

Sry but even with a slow necro, your knowledge of the map and awarness is enough to reach the point where your commander is, and trust me im telling you this when i carry my guild tag which is highly focused by gankers.

Trust me on this an average ganker group who put half effort in killing off people from spawn by singling them out can make most of necros not reach tag. The game is just busted that way. Unless you change you build to core and go trailblazer with core and get ready to duel 1v3 etc and slowly kill enemy over 30mins you are not going alive. Power burst damage in game is just too high and necro has no direct sustain nor from mobility.

I do trust you, i know it, i been doing my self too, with my guild, i been in both sides, so i perfectly know what im talking about, you can always find an alternative, just only talking about spawn, you already have 3 exits, thats actually a factor that you should consider, that gank group is buying time, thats the way of how cutting reinforcements works.Im not gonna deny about the power creep balance, i know it, but you cant just respawn and walk outside alone if you see 3-5 guys waiting, mindless zerglings just go and feed, can wait for a few more on respawn, or like i said just move around, map awareness.

If im zerging as a necro i just stay dead and hope our zerg wins and rezzes if tag is really really far away from spawn.We all knew that

[ArchonWing.9480]

~ System in place favors established WvW'ers~ Clearly PvEr biased

[Vayne.8563]

@Eramonster.2718 said:Now allows you to catch up with tagged commanders, but leaving other players without mounts behind is perfectly fine? :anguished:

It's fine because it doesn't take that long to get a mount. Right now you have all sorts of imbalances in things with new players, even so much as taking less damage from siege damage, or taking less damage from guards or doing more damage to guards. Getting a mount won't take that long, even for relatively new players.

Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Vayne.8563 said:Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.I support the sentiment, but in practice...WvW already had major attrition problems. I favor addressing that first, before giving some people another reason to opt out.

That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.I support the sentiment, but in practice...WvW already had major attrition problems.

I favor addressing that first

,

before giving some people another reason to opt out.

That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

Those bolder points have not been followed, and quite honestly, the reverse has been done.

As to your point of wait and see, I agree. The mount has shown itself to be a ‘need’ to this point, but it is still too early to draw that as a conclusion. (Strong theory? Yes)

I am truly hoping they will be faster to fix the issues than before. To date, they have implemented two quick fixes which have been positive. (Quick by our standards. It likely cost them significant dev time)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:Who's affected? People who refuse to buy POF. Too bad. Let them support the game if they want to play the game.I support the sentiment, but in practice...WvW already had major attrition problems.

I favor addressing that first

,

before giving some people another reason to opt out.

That said, it might be that the Warclaw actually brings more people to WvW than it loses. It's far too soon to tell though. Things aren't anywhere near equilibrium yet, so it's impossible to say whether the new status quo will be better or worse than the old one.

Those bolder points have not been followed, and quite honestly, the reverse has been done.

I was more responding to the theory that it's okay to require PoF, because "people should just support the game." Again, I admire the sentiment; I just don't think it necessarily was bound to be a good move in practice.

As to your point of wait and see, I agree. The mount has shown itself to be a ‘need’ to this point, but it is still too early to draw that as a conclusion. (Strong theory? Yes)Sure, that's fair.

I am truly hoping they will be faster to fix the issues than before. To date, they have implemented two quick fixes which have been positive. (Quick by our standards. It likely cost them significant dev time)Yes, I was impressed they acted that quickly. Let's see if people are still finding exploitable uses of the new mount and if ANet can keep up with tweaks to keep it from being too overwhelming.

I'd also like to see how ZvZ and GvG evolves to deal with the feature. I think it's going to be longer than most of us think before we have a stable equilibrium.

[Stinja.9612]

All these years later and there's still so many "not in my back yard types!" lol.... WvWers and PvErs will now have more mount skins to buy to support the company to keep developing their game and mode BooHoo. If you're playing an mmo that has expansions at some point you have to also realize you are expected to buy said expansion, its been on sale constantly if you cant afford it you need to re-prioritize things in your life, a game might not be what you should be worrying about at all.

People who are down die instantly but also keep their precious downstate, they were going to die anyway and soaked up my aoes i wanted to kill standing people with but now lets blame the mount for the death not misplays or bad builds! It just honestly seems like the mindless zergers will never be happy regardless of what they get, why do they even keep playing the game if they hate it so much at this point?

You want new blood? More pvpers? those people want a meaningful reward they're not going to run around to grind wvw ranks that mean nothing to them and there's better ways to farm karma compared to back in the day. For new blood they have to start somewhere, Alliances are still coming at some point and im sure this was just an update that was ready to go live vs whatever else they were working on.

You get something, act like its nothing, because its not exactly what you wanted and then complain as if they have no intention to add anything else to the mode. Why would a company respond to that? Its beyond obvious that pvers pay the bills that keep the lights on think about it for more than 2 seconds..

At the end of the day they should just run in-game community polls like Rune-scape does so you can visibly see metrics as a player without hoping the Devs will give you that information and know exactly what people voted on thus tempering your expectations accordingly.

Questions as basic as

Do you feel WvW is rewarding enough Yes/No/Undecided

Do you feel the WvW xp rates are good enough Yes/No/Undecided

Do you prefer Large fights (25+) Yes/No/Undecided

Do you prefer small(5 or less players) pvp encounters Yes/No/Undecided

Does the Warclaw improve your WvW experience Yes/No/Undecided

You then know where the majority's stand outside of the many bubbles that exist within game communities. Believe it or not there's people that play all the game modes in the game and don't just tunnel WvW that also have opinions!

The last point of bring back old wvw, it was vastly worse people used to fly around with hacks and steal the orb with teleports do you recall? The rose tinted goggles are obscuring what actual wvw was like years ago vs what you felt it was like. By that logic elite specs and many stat combos were a mistake and shouldn't exist as well in wvw ect. You don't have to use the mount, but you'll just be left behind and easy pickings for gankers, it is a simple choice really

[Colly.4073]

The mount IS a bad idea for WvW and this is from my perspective as a hardcore WvW'r from day dot, WvW has had a lot of issues for years now that have been left unresolved. We have seen lots of WvW guilds and players who have left and sought other games but others have hung on in the hope that things would get better only to be kicked in the teeth by anet.

I did comment on a post the other night that this would be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of WvW veterans and i am sad to say that tonight after witnessing the mounts in action i am one of those, i deleted all my characters and requested my account be deleted. Yes it might be a brutal thing to do but i don't see this game improving in any way whatsoever with regards to WvW which was my only enjoyment these days.

[zionophir.6845]

well, adapt or goto obsidian sanctum and whine incessantly about the warclaw on teamchat.