Warclaw killed WvW for me

Obtena.7952 · March 12, 2019

@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Ashen.2907 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick
@coro.3176 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".That just sounds like word sallad to me.

Its really quite simple.

On a border with 10 objectives, the borderzerg have the capacity to cover 1 objective. The "solo roamers" have the capacity to cover the other 9 objectives.

What can I say ... it makes no sense for Anet to look at something like mounts and not introduce them because of solo roaming. Honestly, this will be harsh ... Anet shouldn't care about solo roaming in WvW; it's the least valuable role to play; lurking around waiting for solo targets to instagank has almost zero impact or value on the overall metaplay and outcomes of WvW game mode.

I would say that if losing that kind of play in WvW brings lots of people back, then good riddance. It wasn't in the spirit of what WvW is anyways.

Ashen.2907 · March 12, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Ashen.2907 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick
@coro.3176 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".That just sounds like word sallad to me.

Its really quite simple.

On a border with 10 objectives, the borderzerg have the capacity to cover 1 objective. The "solo roamers" have the capacity to cover the other 9 objectives.

What can I say ... it makes no sense for Anet to look at something like mounts and not introduce them because of solo roaming. Honestly, this will be harsh ... Anet shouldn't care about solo roaming in WvW; it's the least valuable role to play; lurking around waiting for solo targets to instagank has almost zero impact or value on the overall metaplay and outcomes of WvW game mode.

I would say that if losing that kind of play in WvW brings lots of people back, then good riddance. It wasn't in the spirit of what WvW is anyways.

As a roamer instaganking (isnt gank short for gang kill?) solo players was not really on my radar. Sure fighting another roamer, or even a small group of them for a camp or something could be fun, but I dont roam looking for stragglers to jump.

For me roaming is about contributing to the server by taking objectives without being tied to a zerg. Taking objectives is well within the spirit of wvw IMO.

coro.3176 · March 13, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Ashen.2907 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick
@coro.3176 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".That just sounds like word sallad to me.

Its really quite simple.

On a border with 10 objectives, the borderzerg have the capacity to cover 1 objective. The "solo roamers" have the capacity to cover the other 9 objectives.

What can I say ... it makes no sense for Anet to look at something like mounts and not introduce them because of solo roaming. Honestly, this will be harsh ... Anet shouldn't care about solo roaming in WvW; it's the least valuable role to play; lurking around waiting for solo targets to instagank has almost zero impact or value on the overall metaplay and outcomes of WvW game mode.

I would say that if losing that kind of play in WvW brings lots of people back, then good riddance. It wasn't in the spirit of what WvW is anyways.

There's no reason mounts have to kill roaming, it's just that the specific implementation here that does.

can't cc them
can't dismount a player easily from another mount

Those two design decisions alone are what "kills roaming" and leads to these really lame situations where a bunch of enemy players just run past each other instead of fighting.

Luckily, they're both easy fixes - make hard cc dismount players, make mount skill 1 dismount other mounted players. Either of those two options would make for much healthier roaming gameplay.

Obtena.7952 · March 13, 2019

You're right, there isn't a reason for it and I don't think Anet implemented mounts specifically as one of the goals to kill roaming. I'm simply saying that Anet shouldn't go out of their way to preserve what seems like an inappropriate way for a player to interact with the game mode. Let's be honest, who here thinks one shot ganking a player is reminiscent of a good WvW-style game mode? I don't. I think it's completely stupid. Mounts address that. To be clear here, when I say solo roaming, I'm not talking about a guy going out to solo a camp or kill sentries/dolyaks. I'm talking about the obviously stupid stuff like permastealth one-shot gankers. I'm not sure that was clear to everyone.

I think the sad part of all this mess is that Anet takes an almost nothing stand on it, even though it's so obvious mounts are designed to avoid these negative interactions, they never say so explicitly. It pretty much defeats the purpose for so many people that have simply dismissed WvW for the reason the mount addresses. They will never know and Anet will never say "We killed one shot ganking with this mount ... go have fun".

displayname.8315 · March 13, 2019

@coro.3176 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Ashen.2907 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick
@coro.3176 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I’m not quitting wvw but definitely shelving my Drd thief lol with mobility being a non issue thief is definitely low tier pick

I'm not so sure mobility is the main problem.

Classes with better mobility still have better mobility by using all their mobility skills, then mounting up, then unmounting to use their mobility skills when they're up again.

The issue I have is that you can't pull people OFF the mounts once you catch them. Unless you've got some crazy ranged burst (Soulbeast) or some insane teleport-burst combo, you're not going to be able to demount your target. They'll just run from you before you can get enough damage on them. Warrior is probably the most affected by this because it wants to do melee damage, but it'll never be able to land it on a fleeing mounted opponent.

I would suggest the following:

Mounts are cc-able. They've already got 3 dodges. They don't need to be immune to CC too
Mounts run at the same speed regardless of territory. Pick either the faster home-territory speed, or the other slower one, but make it the same for everyone.

Something to consider is that mounted players have 11k health with no condi cleanse, which is easy pickings for a condi build. I'm playing a low stealth condi trapper daredevil, DA trickery DD, on my P/D set I have geomancy and doom sigils. So one of my burst combos is steal -> weapon swap -> P/D 3, this applies 6 stacks of poison and confusion, 4 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of bleed, which is enough to reliably dismount the rider in 4-5 ticks. The durations are high enough to still be ticking after they dismount unless they run cleansing sigil, forcing a cleanse straight off, and I've only burnt steal and weapon swap. So yeah, the way to force a dismount is a good condition spike.

It's interesting to hear all these people claiming Warclaw ruined their game for roaming ... I guess they didn't consider something like ... adapting. Truly, the best competitive players are those that know how to adapt to the ever changing conditions of their game mode. Some people just aren't up for the challenge.

Perhaps its not a matter of being up to the challenge but rather a function of not enjoying, enjoyment being the point of a game, the addition of mounts.

Here is something that is worth thinking about ... what is the goal of roaming? What is the point of WvW?

See, I have a big problem with the idea of solo roaming, because it promotes zerg behaviour and that further reduces the dimension of gameplay in WvW. I won't really into it, but from my perspective, the idea of WvW is that solo roaming, while fun for some people, doesn't really advance the game. For example, what is the impact of solo roamers on ... taking a outpost or a camp? assisting or hindering seiges .... just think of all the possible activities solo roaming impacts what that is. I don't think you find that it's as big an impact as would be prudent in order for Anet to preserve that style of play and hence, not introduce mounts in WvW.

Bottomline is that Anet is betting that mounts in WvW address problems at a cost to the game that results in a net benefit for the players. Yup, solo roamers are going to lose if they can't compete with mounted players. I'm also betting that there

could

be future plans to enable roamers to set traps and have deterrents for mounted players that make it interesting again if it indeed takes that much away from WvW game mode. There are lots of possibilities here, but I don't think any of those possibilities for Anet are going to be "

do nothing so that people won't complain about changes we make

".That just sounds like word sallad to me.

Its really quite simple.

On a border with 10 objectives, the borderzerg have the capacity to cover 1 objective. The "solo roamers" have the capacity to cover the other 9 objectives.

What can I say ... it makes no sense for Anet to look at something like mounts and not introduce them because of solo roaming. Honestly, this will be harsh ... Anet shouldn't care about solo roaming in WvW; it's the least valuable role to play; lurking around waiting for solo targets to instagank has almost zero impact or value on the overall metaplay and outcomes of WvW game mode.

I would say that if losing that kind of play in WvW brings lots of people back, then good riddance. It wasn't in the spirit of what WvW is anyways.

There's no reason mounts have to kill roaming, it's just that the specific implementation here that does.

can't cc them
can't dismount a player easily from another mount

Those two design decisions alone are what "kills roaming" and leads to these really lame situations where a bunch of enemy players just run past each other instead of fighting.

Luckily, they're both easy fixes - make hard cc dismount players, make mount skill 1 dismount other mounted players. Either of those two options would make for much healthier roaming gameplay.

Roamers all run past each other and don't fight? Hmm how do you capture objectives without fighting? That would be a good opportunity to start attacking.. like at an objective. Maybe it's your MU or server you should transfer.

Obtena.7952 · March 13, 2019

I think it's important to differentiate here. Mounts shouldn't kill WvW for the 'small roaming group' of players because they are taking small objectives, MAYBE engaging the odd solo player harassing them, but they aren't targetting solo runners. If anything, mounts are going to enhance that experience because of the faster time to get between targets or reducing the risk of being noticed.

What I believe we are talking about is gankers and if ganking was your WvW game, I'm not sure you understood the spirit of WvW to being with. WvW seems too sandbox ... mounts give it direction. Direction away from the silliness of ganking.

Eramonster.2718 · March 13, 2019

Its best to play wvw to see how mount is being used and effecting it. Effecting roaming, small scale fights and even blobs. Its not about ganking or players not fighting, more on how the health, engaging skills etc being used, creating unfair advantages making it a mandate tool locked behind PoF. Something that should be avoided especially for competitive game mode (not PvE).

displayname.8315 · March 13, 2019

@Eramonster.2718 said:Its best to play wvw to see how mount is being used and effecting it. Effecting roaming, small scale fights and even blobs. Its not about ganking or players not fighting, more on how the health, engaging skills etc being used, creating unfair advantages making it a mandate tool locked behind PoF. Something that should be avoided especially for competitive game mode (not PvE).

If your playing a AAA MMO completely F2P free you have to expect a different experience. GW2 model is the only reason I even play MMOs anymore. I'll sometimes play my alt account with no gliding, mounts, or new classes and still have fun too.

Psycoprophet.8107 · March 13, 2019

Before mounts wvw had a lot of dynamics to it that were effected negatively by the mount. Traveling on foot always had a sense of risk even in ur own territory and more so in enemy territory which is unfortunately gone when mounted. Also solo fights/small group fights don’t always equate to ganking, often often on way back to Zerg or if just soloing objectives ud meet solo enemies or small groups that would usually result in a fight. Neither side set out to gank anyone it’s just one of the different dynamics that comes with a open map team PVP mode and getting in fights outside of zergs is no less part of wvw. Imagine playing a fps like battlefield in a mode consisting of objectives and saying being and killing anyone while ur not with the group is bad or killing the players on opposing sides if there solo and not with the group is cheesy,that be ridiculous. Now with mounts players travel around their territory/enemy territory without risk being able to pick and choose their fights which is silly in a PvP mode. Often times solo or small groups mounted will do circles and stare at an opposing solo mounted player or small group and after a min just run off.its like wvw has more of a pve feeling to it and that’s sad.

LostInDarkness.5460 · March 13, 2019

@KingPuki.1075 said:I really love WvW but we have seen so many changes noone that plays WvW asked for. First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust) Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for. Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw, and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts. Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!! And we got em anyways, and they're destroying our game mode, and our mechanics we fell in love with.
I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..
Please bring back old school WvW!!

Maybe WvW is just not for you.Mass combat is an evolving environment. So you stop fighting becuse plate armor was invented? How about gun powder? Tanks? In all honestly the Warclaw adds movility and many romers that thought it was gonig to be a bad htings now like it better. In the ned find what works for you or grow with the changes.

Middzz.1490 · March 13, 2019

Think its not that mounts need to be nerfed removed...but enhanced give mount versus mount abilities ...attacks de-mounting ..and lances .The mobs can runaround, more organized can become mobile with charges and the roamers can use mount to dismount and do all they did before.

Ashen.2907 · March 13, 2019

@LostInDarkness.5460 said:
@KingPuki.1075 said:I really love WvW but we have seen so many changes noone that plays WvW asked for. First the removal of the giant lake and underwater combat (bloodlust) Then we got shield gens, were again noone asked for. Then we got the infamous gliding in wvw, and now as a cherry on the cake we got the kitten mounts. Remember folks when Anet said we were gonna have a amazing anouncement, and everyone said: Please for the love of lyssa NO MOUNTS!!!!! And we got em anyways, and they're destroying our game mode, and our mechanics we fell in love with.
I just don't enjoy the mount in WvW, i've tryed it yesterday and today, and it just doesn't feel right..
Please bring back old school WvW!!

Maybe WvW is just not for you.Mass combat is an evolving environment. So you stop fighting becuse plate armor was invented? How about gun powder? Tanks? In all honestly the Warclaw adds movility and many romers that thought it was gonig to be a bad htings now like it better. In the ned find what works for you or grow with the changes.

In response to your comment about gunpowder, tanks, etc...

If you bought a game expecting to be able to reenact the battles of Crecy or Agincourt, would you be delighted to find your French knights facing M1 Abrahams tanks and Apache helecopters?

Or would you try to find a game that gave you what you wanted from the game in the first place?

Psycoprophet.8107 · March 13, 2019

A pvp game mode where players consider it better to be able to pick their fights lol sounds like a success to me. All pvp games should adopt this,makes sense and if ur killed when U haven’t decided it’s ok to fight than the opponent is a cheese ganker lol wish people would stop attacking me in conquest when I’m on the way to a node to cap or on the way to help a teammate,nothing but gankers in conquest lol or atleast let me get to the node than attack me. Why can’t everybody play the way I want them to so I can get to the nodes easier,man the cheese is real lmao this is what a pve’r will say if a popular item that can be used in pve was only unlocked via conquest.

DemonSeed.3528 · March 13, 2019

Werld Voises SnoeFLek

displayname.8315 · March 13, 2019

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Before mounts wvw had a lot of dynamics to it that were effected negatively by the mount. Traveling on foot always had a sense of risk even in ur own territory and more so in enemy territory which is unfortunately gone when mounted. Also solo fights/small group fights don’t always equate to ganking, often often on way back to Zerg or if just soloing objectives ud meet solo enemies or small groups that would usually result in a fight. Neither side set out to gank anyone it’s just one of the different dynamics that comes with a open map team PVP mode and getting in fights outside of zergs is no less part of wvw. Imagine playing a fps like battlefield in a mode consisting of objectives and saying being and killing anyone while ur not with the group is bad or killing the players on opposing sides if there solo and not with the group is cheesy,that be ridiculous. Now with mounts players travel around their territory/enemy territory without risk being able to pick and choose their fights which is silly in a PvP mode. Often times solo or small groups mounted will do circles and stare at an opposing solo mounted player or small group and after a min just run off.its like wvw has more of a pve feeling to it and that’s sad.

So in the battlefield analogy ya'll would be the guys camping in a corner waiting. Everyone else would be ones fighting on the nodes and playing the map. Got it.

No one is stopping you from defending and attacking the nodes. Maybe your concern is numbers. Like you can't pick your fights in terms of numbers so easy.

Veterans will be aggressive no matter the numbers, they will change their playstyle and aggression depending on numbers. They don't WP or map hop until numbers are "acceptable". Are ya'll vets or still kinda new?

Psycoprophet.8107 · March 13, 2019

@displayname.8315 said:
@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Before mounts wvw had a lot of dynamics to it that were effected negatively by the mount. Traveling on foot always had a sense of risk even in ur own territory and more so in enemy territory which is unfortunately gone when mounted. Also solo fights/small group fights don’t always equate to ganking, often often on way back to Zerg or if just soloing objectives ud meet solo enemies or small groups that would usually result in a fight. Neither side set out to gank anyone it’s just one of the different dynamics that comes with a open map team PVP mode and getting in fights outside of zergs is no less part of wvw. Imagine playing a fps like battlefield in a mode consisting of objectives and saying being and killing anyone while ur not with the group is bad or killing the players on opposing sides if there solo and not with the group is cheesy,that be ridiculous. Now with mounts players travel around their territory/enemy territory without risk being able to pick and choose their fights which is silly in a PvP mode. Often times solo or small groups mounted will do circles and stare at an opposing solo mounted player or small group and after a min just run off.its like wvw has more of a pve feeling to it and that’s sad.

So in the battlefield analogy ya'll would be the guys camping in a corner waiting. Everyone else would be ones fighting on the nodes and playing the map. Got it.

No one is stopping you from defending and attacking the nodes. Maybe your concern is numbers. Like you can't pick your fights in terms of numbers so easy.

Veterans will be aggressive no matter the numbers, they will change their playstyle and aggression depending on numbers. They don't WP or map hop until numbers are "acceptable". Are ya'll vets or still kinda new?

No in battlefield I’d be traveling throughout the map with no set location shooting any enemy I see, not ignoring them cuz their cut off from the group. In wvw I’d use thief with zero stealt(hate DE and stealth mechanics) and if I say an enemy I’d attack them.a lot of times I’d eat dirt but sometimes fights were great and sometimes a few more enemies would show and destroy me lol but that’s all part of pvp, now if I see a enemie I have to chase and burn all my initiative and CD to try and dismount to get the enemy which is too much,either u dismount and are useless cuz no initiative or CD are active or most times they get away. Not all roamers are permastealth backstabbers lol. Being able to jump on ur mount and disregard any chance of combat between spawn and ur Zerg unless u decide to kills a huge dynamic of a open map pvp mode. No player should feel safe in any zone except the spawn zone which by design they weren’t a tool which was implemented being warclaw allowing them to do so. I think the warclaw is cool but bad implementation. Given its speed etc dismounting should be considerably easier.imagine if a tool were readily available to all players in a fps to allow safe passage to their group? Be boring fast no?

displayname.8315 · March 13, 2019

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@displayname.8315 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Before mounts wvw had a lot of dynamics to it that were effected negatively by the mount. Traveling on foot always had a sense of risk even in ur own territory and more so in enemy territory which is unfortunately gone when mounted. Also solo fights/small group fights don’t always equate to ganking, often often on way back to Zerg or if just soloing objectives ud meet solo enemies or small groups that would usually result in a fight. Neither side set out to gank anyone it’s just one of the different dynamics that comes with a open map team PVP mode and getting in fights outside of zergs is no less part of wvw. Imagine playing a fps like battlefield in a mode consisting of objectives and saying being and killing anyone while ur not with the group is bad or killing the players on opposing sides if there solo and not with the group is cheesy,that be ridiculous. Now with mounts players travel around their territory/enemy territory without risk being able to pick and choose their fights which is silly in a PvP mode. Often times solo or small groups mounted will do circles and stare at an opposing solo mounted player or small group and after a min just run off.its like wvw has more of a pve feeling to it and that’s sad.

So in the battlefield analogy ya'll would be the guys camping in a corner waiting. Everyone else would be ones fighting on the nodes and playing the map. Got it.

No one is stopping you from defending and attacking the nodes. Maybe your concern is numbers. Like you can't pick your fights in terms of numbers so easy.

Veterans will be aggressive no matter the numbers, they will change their playstyle and aggression depending on numbers. They don't WP or map hop until numbers are "acceptable". Are ya'll vets or still kinda new?

No in battlefield I’d be traveling throughout the map with no set location shooting any enemy I see, not ignoring them cuz their cut off from the group. In wvw I’d use thief with zero stealt(hate DE and stealth mechanics) and if I say an enemy I’d attack them.a lot of times I’d eat dirt but sometimes fights were great and sometimes a few more enemies would show and destroy me lol but that’s all part of pvp, now if I see a enemie I have to chase and burn all my initiative and CD to try and dismount to get the enemy which is too much,either u dismount and are useless cuz no initiative or CD are active or most times they get away. Not all roamers are permastealth backstabbers lol. Being able to jump on ur mount and disregard any chance of combat between spawn and ur Zerg unless u decide to kills a huge dynamic of a open map pvp mode. No player should feel safe in any zone except the spawn zone which by design they weren’t a tool which was implemented being warclaw allowing them to do so. I think the warclaw is cool but bad implementation. Given its speed etc dismounting should be considerably easier.imagine if a tool were readily available to all players in a fps to allow safe passage to their group? Be boring fast no?

OK. Not into battlefield I assume you can chase down jeeps on foot and stuff then? Or is it more about fighting over the points like A - B - C - D. Sure you can get kills if you don't focus up and chase some rando, blow all your ammo on him while your guys die on point. That's a team game tho. I guess we should all chase a vehicle around like in this battlefield game.

shiri.4257 · March 13, 2019

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@displayname.8315 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Before mounts wvw had a lot of dynamics to it that were effected negatively by the mount. Traveling on foot always had a sense of risk even in ur own territory and more so in enemy territory which is unfortunately gone when mounted. Also solo fights/small group fights don’t always equate to ganking, often often on way back to Zerg or if just soloing objectives ud meet solo enemies or small groups that would usually result in a fight. Neither side set out to gank anyone it’s just one of the different dynamics that comes with a open map team PVP mode and getting in fights outside of zergs is no less part of wvw. Imagine playing a fps like battlefield in a mode consisting of objectives and saying being and killing anyone while ur not with the group is bad or killing the players on opposing sides if there solo and not with the group is cheesy,that be ridiculous. Now with mounts players travel around their territory/enemy territory without risk being able to pick and choose their fights which is silly in a PvP mode. Often times solo or small groups mounted will do circles and stare at an opposing solo mounted player or small group and after a min just run off.its like wvw has more of a pve feeling to it and that’s sad.

So in the battlefield analogy ya'll would be the guys camping in a corner waiting. Everyone else would be ones fighting on the nodes and playing the map. Got it.

No one is stopping you from defending and attacking the nodes. Maybe your concern is numbers. Like you can't pick your fights in terms of numbers so easy.

Veterans will be aggressive no matter the numbers, they will change their playstyle and aggression depending on numbers. They don't WP or map hop until numbers are "acceptable". Are ya'll vets or still kinda new?

No in battlefield I’d be traveling throughout the map with no set location shooting any enemy I see, not ignoring them cuz their cut off from the group. In wvw I’d use thief with zero stealt(hate DE and stealth mechanics) and if I say an enemy I’d attack them.a lot of times I’d eat dirt but sometimes fights were great and sometimes a few more enemies would show and destroy me lol but that’s all part of pvp, now if I see a enemie I have to chase and burn all my initiative and CD to try and dismount to get the enemy which is too much,either u dismount and are useless cuz no initiative or CD are active or most times they get away. Not all roamers are permastealth backstabbers lol. Being able to jump on ur mount and disregard any chance of combat between spawn and ur Zerg unless u decide to kills a huge dynamic of a open map pvp mode. No player should feel safe in any zone except the spawn zone which by design they weren’t a tool which was implemented being warclaw allowing them to do so. I think the warclaw is cool but bad implementation. Given its speed etc dismounting should be considerably easier.imagine if a tool were readily available to all players in a fps to allow safe passage to their group? Be boring fast no?

You envision yourself way too highly due to your extensive battlefield experience from chuck norris movies. Nam did things to me too.

Psycoprophet.8107 · March 13, 2019

Lol wow point is that it’s a PvP open map mode where all is fair and just cuz a zerger is making his way to its Zerg it should never have been given a tool to avoid engagements with enemies that basically lends safe passage to zergs,and ridiculous in a PvP to think u or any player should be able to pick engagements and think it’s healthy to do so in a PvP mode. Do u get mad in conquest if u get engaged on way to the node? Or when u go to help a team mate? Is it ganking if u get engaged on way to the node to decap and cap it? Should opponents wait till u cap a node to engage u lmao

Deaeira.2651 · March 14, 2019

@Drecien.4508 said:
@Deaeira.2651 said:
@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

If it outruns someone speccing for speed it is way too fast. The 10k additional health pool means engaging a roamer is a bad idea as well. Just leads to people passing each other by instead of fighting.

I did that anyway. You pass by when you don't want to pvp. Run to capture the tower.

If you don't want to pvp, wouldn't be the Silverwastes a better place to go? I guess you mean you don't want to pvp when you might lose... but that's the issue with pvp, some players need to lose for others to win. If no one loses, no one wins - a pretty boring place. The main thing to prevent is that one group always loses and the other group always wins.

Drecien.4508 · March 15, 2019

@Deaeira.2651 said:
@Drecien.4508 said:
@Deaeira.2651 said:
@Drecien.4508 said:They not that fast. Running on a herald with speed skill Active is barely slower. All this hyperbole.

If it outruns someone speccing for speed it is way too fast. The 10k additional health pool means engaging a roamer is a bad idea as well. Just leads to people passing each other by instead of fighting.

I did that anyway. You pass by when you don't want to pvp. Run to capture the tower.

If you don't want to pvp, wouldn't be the Silverwastes a better place to go? I guess you mean you don't want to pvp when you might lose... but that's the issue with pvp, some players need to lose for others to win. If no one loses, no one wins - a pretty boring place. The main thing to prevent is that one group always loses and the other group always wins.

It's not about losing to me, it about the ganking when a tower needs defense or the group needs help. Not into pvp so I avoid it in wvw when I can. If the group can succeed then we've accomplished what we set out to. There are areas that people can pvp in wvw, although I don't see why when we have a whole mode dedicated to it. But the gankers will still gank and I'll get there with the mount that much faster.

DeadlySynz.3471 · March 15, 2019

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.

I would place the restriction on the attacker to slow/chill/immobilize etc ... the mounted target if they want to engage in combat that bad. Let's be honest here ... the point of the warclaw is to give an edge to travelling players who DON'T want to be picked off roaming. I don't think they should be immune to roamers and maybe warclaw is tuned too much to avoid roaming encounters BUT ...

Roamers should have to think about how they are going to engage and address players on warclaws, not just ask for Anet to screw mounted players from one of the advantages of the mount.

it took 5 players to dismount another guy and that only happened because he was in our territory.

roamers can no longer really do their jobs anymore as in, stopping re-informants going from garri/x stopping enemys from going to camps because they will just troll around. very silly the mounts are.

I can dismount someone myself fairly easily, with or without a banner. If it takes 5 players to dismount someone, those 5 players need to start taking off their toughness gear in exchange for damage.

Roamers really never had jobs anyway other than being a bane to the map and not helping with objectives. Camping the enemy's 3rd in hopes of killing stragglers (who aren't likely geared to fight PvP oriented players) isn't roaming, it's ganking. It barely even worked to begin with. If you take someone like me who absolutely sucks at 1v1 yet routinely kills "roamers" while carrying a banner, the "roamers" aren't doing anyone good other than taking a spot on the map.

If roamers had an actual job and wanted to be useful to the map, they'd leave the stragglers alone and attempt to go ninja a tower or camp while the main enemy force is pre-occupied. Do we see that? Nope; what we see is 1-3 players trolling around sentries attempting to jump players, and more often than not failing miserably. What we have now is mounted stragglers running be these 1-3 players trolling sentries, and these players are all up in arms about it. Now what's happening which is even funnier, stragglers are coming in groups of 2-4, killing the gankers (as this is usually what happens), and a mounted zergling insta kills the roamers with superior battle maul. That obviously adds more salt to the wound infuriating the gankers even more, which in then causes these players to come to the forums complaining.

If "roamers" truly wanted to be useful, leave the stragglers alone, and go attempt to ninja objectives instead. If you want to fight, get out of your PvP gear, and off the PvP class and get on a useful group class with proper gear instead. If you want to PvP, go to the PvP mode instead.

spectrito.8513 · March 15, 2019

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:as soon as you get into combat, you should move normal speed.